I am.
I have no illusions about being a good driver, although being a IAM member I would like to think I am slightly better than average, especially in the mechanical sympathy dept. My ex ex is also a member, but whenever I drive with her, which is not very often, she always seems to drive in too low a gear. Her Lexus IS is a 6 sp manual, but she will happily drive along a NSL in 3rd or 4th and whilst 6th is a high speed cruising gear she seems reluctant to change up to fifth. And she is reluctant to overtake mimsers on single carriageways, whereas when I get to drive it I drop it into 2nd and use all the weedy 150 horses from the smooth 6cyl lump which really needs to be revved hard to get the most out of it, rather like the Honda S2000.
Another friend who I drove with a few days ago has a 2.0 Tdi, and he really labours the engine in 6th. Obviously I say nothing, but I do wonder if that is why on a 3yo Golf there are numerous trim rattles which are really annoying.
Driving my old Mum home from visiting an elderly relative earlier this week she said that it was like being with Lewis Hamilton! Quite funny coming from an 87yo. She is used to it by now and quite enjoyed bring buckled into a four point harness when I had an RS 2000 which I road rallied several decades ago. Thank goodness I have slowed down over the years.
Probably time to go out for another assessment with an IAM observer methinks because you get complacent.
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Its the mechanical sympathy thing that gets to me. So over/under revving and gear usage used to wind me up immeasurably. It probably still would but since all the cars I am ever a passenger in are automatic it doesn't matter anymore.
Without that major annoyance I am usually able to just ignore.
Although if I am asked to give directions or comment on the traffic etc. etc. it forces me to pay attention and then I start getting irritable again.
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>> because you
>> get complacent.
... and age kicks in, which slows your reactions down.
I was lucky enough to get an advanced police driving course at the age of 23 (which is fairly unusual).
My driving ability now is not what it was.... and I'm only 52!
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I could be entirely wrong, but I think that younger people who participated in and passed the IAM Skills for Life course could make appreciable savings on their insurance.
A relatives wife is scared witless whenever she goes in my car. Just because I like to make sensible, and I mean sensible not stupid and dangerous progress, and because I overtake vehicles, sometimes more than one at a time. As I tell her, the less time I spend on 'the other' side of the road the better.
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I sometimes have to be driven by an older bloke, 70s age group. He is the worst tailgater I've ever seen, I actually get frightened with how close he gets to the car in front. I want to refuse to get in a car with him unless he sorts it out, but old geezers don't often want to be told and can't often change the habits of a lifetime. How he hasn't had an accident every single time he drives is beyond me.
Other than that, I'm usually only a passenger in a taxi (sit in back, try not to look for fear of self-inflicted stress aneurysm) or when the Mrs is driving me home from a drinking do. In the case of the latter, I shuts right up and never comments - don't want to jeopardise the privilege.
Generally I hate other people's driving, they're nearly all incompetent.
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In my experience, it's quite unusual to find someone that drives in too low a gear. Nearly all the time I've been a passenger and the driver is in the wrong gear it's too high. Get it into fifth as soon as possible and leave it there, even when it's struggling like mad and coughing away. I think many people would be better off with an auto.
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>> I think many people would be better off with an auto.
Yes they would.
Driving in the highest viable gear at all times is quieter, easier on the jalopy and more fuel-efficient. But only if you have enough 'mechanical sympathy' to drive at the right throttle opening, which varies constantly with the landscape. Not everyone has.
Note that I say the highest VIABLE gear: one that will pull smoothly on light throttle. Many drivers have poor physical judgement in these areas. They are lazy about changing gear, when really they should be (as I am) their own autoboxes.
I'm sure everyone here knows these things. But doing them effectively on the road entails constant fluid activity.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Fri 14 Aug 15 at 13:42
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It' s not lack of mechanical sympathy that bothers me it's lack of passenger sympathy. Harsh braking, fast cornering and being thrown around whilst the driver demonstrates his skill are not something I enjoy. Driving with passengers aboard sometimes requires a moderation in driving style.
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>> How he hasn't had an accident
>> every single time he drives is beyond me.
Because in his own way he's quite a good driver, otherwise he would have. He must be looking well ahead, not at the back of the car in front. Not that it wouldn't be an even better idea to leave a gap as well, and there's a greater chance of being a crash-for-cash victim too if he goes on like that.
>> Generally I hate other people's driving, they're nearly all incompetent.
I can identify with that. Some of the people I know, I am OK with. But the labouring, the tailgating, late brakers (you can see the roundabout from half a mile away!), braking before indicating or looking in the mirror when turning, turning left at T's when only looking right, cutting blind right hand bends and poor positioning generally, all annoy me after a while.
The one that really winds me up though is the inability to maintain a suitable speed or separation, resulting in alternately catching the vehicle in front, and braking to avoid hitting it. Apart from just being stupid, it makes me feel sick. Watch people do it on a motorway - they rush up to the back of a stream of cars, then bang the brakes on.
Most of it is just down to not caring, or paying attention. How many people actually think about just where to position the car for a turn, or a bend? Not very many is my guess.
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The gearchange indicator on our Hyundai i10 is always urging an upward change unless in top. Following its indication invariably leads to a stressed engine so I ignore it.
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>> The gearchange indicator on our Hyundai i10 is always urging an upward change unless in
>> top. Following its indication invariably leads to a stressed engine so I ignore it.
>>
SWMBO's meriva is the same, urging a change up at 2000 rpm, which is insane; I'm going to have to stick a bit of black tape over it at this rate as SWMBO takes it as gospel.
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Incongruously, the TDS has one too. It would have me using 6th at barely 40 - 1200 rpm - which the car will take but feels awful doing it. No need to tape over it, though; Mrs Beest will look at the speedometer and (occasionally) the fuel gauge, and any other instrumentation might as well be a cuckoo clock.
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How many people
>> actually think about just where to position the car for a turn, or a bend?
>> Not very many is my guess.
>>
I'd agree, there's a T junction near here, plenty of space for 2 cars next to each other. The amount of people that seem not notice they are several feet away, and therefore slowing traffic down, from the curb suggest their minds are in neutral.
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...several feet away [from the kerb] and therefore slowing traffic down...
If you'd put that the other way round I might agree with you. But a vehicle - especially a tall one - coming up alongside one waiting to turn left merely blocks the left-turner's view. The right-turner is waiting for the same gap in the traffic as the left, and another on the opposite side, so can't get out any sooner by being pushy, and just ends up slowing everybody down.
There's a mini-roundabout on my run-in to work. The island has only one lane around it, but an imperfectly-erased old marking at one entrance, and an over-zealous crossing warden at one exit, persuade some drivers that there's a second lane and it's all right to overtake the queue so they can turn right. I've seen this create some dangerous squeezes on the roundabout itself, so I'm careful to position myself in the middle of the (single, remember) entrance lane to avoid becoming part of one. Brain not in neutral at all, I assure you.
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>> ...several feet away [from the kerb] and therefore slowing traffic down...
>>
>> If you'd put that the other way round I might agree with you. But a
>> vehicle - especially a tall one - coming up alongside one waiting to turn left
I don't know about your junction, but there's plenty of space and room to see and fit two cars side by side in the one I'm taking about. None particularly tall either just normal cars. There's a curb on both sides of the junction, theres a traffic island on the right.
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If I'm in my normal car at your junction, waiting to turn left, and a Transit or Range Rover pulls up at the line on my right, I can't go anywhere until the other vehicle has gone; my turn may be clear but the other vehicle is preventing me from seeing it. If I had the option of preventing that by positioning my own vehicle, I'd probably take it, and I'd be inconveniencing nobody.
The other way round, of course, right-turners into a busy road can leave room to their left for others to turn left while they wait, and plenty of junctions are designed and - importantly - marked specifically with that in mind. If there are no markings to the contrary, it's perfectly in order to take the position that gives you the best opportunity to make the left turn quickly and safely.
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>> If I'm in my normal car at your junction, waiting to turn left, and a
>> Transit or Range Rover pulls up at the line on my right, I can't go
>> anywhere until the other vehicle has gone; my turn may be clear but the other vehicle is preventing me from seeing it. If I had the option of preventing that by positioning my own vehicle, I'd probably take it, and I'd be inconveniencing nobody.
There aren't very many Range rovers or transits around here, the junction allows people to nose forward and get a look, it's easy to do.
The other way round, of course, right-turners into a busy road can leave room to their left for others to turn left while they wait.
correct, not everyone figures that out though.
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>> Generally I hate other people's driving, they're nearly all incompetent.
I think that 'incompetent' is a little strong, but I do get what you mean. Pretty much the only person I feel safe being driven by is my brother, and that's probably because he's an EMT and so he's "blues and twos" trained.
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People labour engines horribly. I guess it doesn't matter much these days, when forty years ago the car would have died quickly.
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I gave up trying to change Mrs ONs low rev driving and bought diesels. I still have to blow the crap out of it if she has been driving it for a while.
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I suppose you'd expect to find a lot of poor passengers among a group that has self-selected for a greater-than-average interest in cars and driving.
I'm just back from two weeks in southwest France, a 400-mile drive from St Malo. The wonderful A83-A10 combination makes this as easy as anyone could wish for, especially on a Sunday when the HGV traffic is reduced, but I'd been hoping Mrs Beest might contribute more than the 90 minutes she managed on the way out and barely 15 on the way back. The reason? I asked her - nicely, I thought, and outside the car - to consider completing her rather exaggerated shoulder check before turning the wheel to change lanes. The steer-with-the-eyes effect means that looking at a crash barrier 110° left of the direction of travel tends to produce an excessive steering input, which leads to an equally excessive correction. Do this in 2.3 tonnes of fully-laden LEC at 120km/h, when 75kg of the load consists of bikes and carrier clamped to the towbar, and there is the potential for something quite unpleasant, as almost happened last year. Only trying to help, but - well, you can imagine.
}:---<
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Only if I forgot to bring my wallet with me...:-)
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I'm a fairly relaxed passenger most of the time, but when my wife is driving me that changes dramatically. She has absolutely no mechanical sympathy whatsoever. She'll force the gearbox into first whenever she comes to a halt at a junction/roundabout, even if she doesn't have to stop. She revs the bejesus out of the car and slips the clutch when reversing into our drive, despite the fact that I can do the manoeuvre without even touching the accelerator pedal. She also believes that the brakes only have two settings - on or off.
As to her actual driving - jeepers. She'll do 30 in a 40, 40 in a 30 and slow right down (ie to 20mph) when approaching green traffic lights. She never looks more than two cars in front so that virtually everything that happens is a complete surprise to her.
It's got to the stage where I'll automatically pick up the keys if we're going anywhere together.
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>> It's got to the stage where I'll automatically pick up the keys if we're going anywhere together.
I've always done that, but it's because I like driving more than Herself does and am quicker. However she isn't as terrible as Ms Badwolf sounds.
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MSQ 4 LB
>> As to her actual driving - jeepers. She'll do 30 in a 40, 40 in
>> a 30 and slow right down (ie to 20mph) when approaching green traffic lights. She
>> never looks more than two cars in front so that virtually everything that happens is
>> a complete surprise to her.
>>
I think that you have just described the driving of the vast majority of females on the road !
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 16 Aug 15 at 19:05
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Really ? I think rather that you have simply demonstrated an all too common male attitude.
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>> you have simply demonstrated an all too common male attitude.
Yes. Being male certainly doesn't make people better drivers. Indeed being more arrogant than women and less cautious, men tend to be more dangerous on the road than women.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sun 16 Aug 15 at 15:42
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You either "Get" driving or you dont, like everything, some are better than others. Mrs ON can type at professional speed, I can't. I can drive, she......... :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 16 Aug 15 at 17:08
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>> You either "Get" driving or you dont, like everything, some are better than others. Mrs
>> ON can type at professional speed, I can't. I can drive, she......... :-)
>>
Mine's quite good in fairness. She has stated though that she doesn't really like modern driving (even in the country), you're too busy looking out for the next clown.
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>> Mine's quite good in fairness. She has stated though that she doesn't really like modern
>> driving (even in the country), you're too busy looking out for the next clown.
>>
So is mine, she has had three non fault bumps to my none in almost 50 years of driving. Not that I would remind her! How's that for tempting providence. :-)
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Mrs C very reluctantly got as far as her driving test about 30 years ago. Failed, and has refused point blank ever since to have anything to do with driving.
This means I've almost never been a passenger in a car other than the odd taxi here and there and probably never will be.
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Generally a good passenger unless someone scares me. Don't care about mechanical sympathy (unless it's my car...)
One thing that does hack me off is people going too fast around blind corners on narrow roads. I learned to drive in Devon where driving fast with both wing mirrors are in the hedge at the same time is part of the test, but a couple of times I've somewhat pointedly asked the driver "If you met yourself coming around this corner at this speed, would you be able to stop?". Seems to work.
I once got out of a pre-booked taxi at services halfway between Gatwick and Manchester after the driver was starting to fall asleep at the wheel.
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Are you a poor passenger? - No FM2R
