Last Saturday myself and a friend met up for a coffee at a local national chain of coffee outlets. The outlet has an outdoor seating area and we sat and had a yarn.
Now I had previously observed and even discussed with staff the recent instillation of an ANPR system with one hour free parking. There is an IPAD on the counter for submission of your reg number if you are staying over the hour but everything is very casual.
The outlet is a stand alone facility along with a KFC which are under the same ownership (its a non franchised outlet) neither is it somewhere where people would abuse the free parking for shopping or commuting.
I must have sat for 15 minutes waiting for him to return with the caffine as there was a bit of a queue further frustrated by a new employee who had 3 attempts at producing the required beverages.
Yesterday he informs me that he has had a notice from the car park management company asking him for £60 or £100 if not paid within 14 days. The timings are not in dispute and we seem to have spent 1hr 30min at the location - and we only had one cup a piece. How time flies when you are sat in the sun. Now that WAS a dear cup of a coffee.
Of course he is not best pleased. We know this type of fleecing operation is commonplace and ironically ANPR is his speciallity :S.
It seems that within 6 days the ANPR has been processed, DVLA inquiry completed - so there must be an electronic inquiry system, and process posted, They don't waste their time.
Anyway this is just a beef an we are now formulating our plan :)
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You'll be aware that not all so-called penalties are enforceable and, from memory, it rather depends on who owns the car park and how the notice is worded. I got one at Twyford station a few years back which I ignored, after quite a few threatening letters it went quiet. A key thing was to not respond to anything.
So I'd start by googling the car park name and see if there is any history to work with.
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>> threatening letters it went quiet. A key thing was to not respond to anything.
that advice is no longer valid since a recent change in the law.
now as soon as you get a demand you have to say you are going to appeal, and then find some reason to do so. There are usually so many that one of them will get you off.
I got one at Taplow station*. I appealed because the signage was poor, the boundaries of the car park were not marked, nor were the bays.
All of them were deemed valid for appeal and the charge was thrown out.
Stations are tricky. Some of the car parks are covered by the Railway Byelaws and some are not. Railway bylaws are a pig to fight. In my case turns out some of the land used as a car park was managed by the ToC, and some by Network Rail. So part of it was covered by railway bylaws and some not.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 15 Aug 15 at 14:24
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I had a similar problem when SWMBO incurred a charge overstaying at a Morrisons supermarket where we used to live and shop regularly.She wanted to pay it but I would not let her.
I spent a fair amount of time and effort appealling through the parking company normal procedure without success but managed to get the charge waived after a 'full and frank' discussion with the store manager.......
Be aware that a recent appeal court ruling went against Barry Beavis who challenged his 85 quid 'fine' as it was a 'penalty' but this was not accepted by the court and is currently going to the Supreme court.I believe that in viewof this that the current advice is that you ignore these letters at your peril.The whole area of these charges is a mess.They base the charge on the the premise that you have entered into and then broken a civil contract with them
If I were your friend I would take it up with the coffee shop management to try to get the charge waived but also check out the websites which discuss these matters by googling Parking eye .
Be prepared for aggravation.
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One assumes these people are just normal innocent folk when they first become parking daleks. But the job compels them to adopt the attitudes of a mean-spirited money-grubbing geek. It represents a subversion of normal morality. Calling it 'obeying the regulations' or whatever doesn't change that.
I'm only a civilian
Just one of sixty million
No uniform or helmet to my name;
But I can wreak black harm
With my practised writing arm
By smearing hapless motorists in blame.
For I have it in my heart
To play a modest part
In the system as of all spare cash it trims us:
I can freeze your soul with fear
If your mobile's to your ear
And slap NIPs and PCNs on all non-mimsers.
(AC, passim. Sorry).
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'One assumes these people are just normal innocent folk when they first become parking daleks. But the job compels them to adopt the attitudes of a mean-spirited money-grubbing geek. It represents a subversion of normal morality. Calling it 'obeying the regulations' or whatever doesn't change that.'
Speaking as an outsider to modern British society, these parking 'enforcers' sound comparable to the moronic d-ckh--ds employed to go through people's rubbish to see if any item is in the wrong bin. I didn't really believe the stories I heard about that sort of thing but now I have seen it with my own eyes. Give a moron a bit of authority... With lists of 'offences' and fines posted everywhere England has become a sad, dispiriting place. The other day I saw a huge notice about not inconveniencing people when using a fire extinguisher - in a church.
My tentative idea of a permanent return is being reconsidered. At the very least I'd have to buy a car that actually fits in a 21st century parking bay.
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Stay where you are Sir. It's crap here for the reasons stated.
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I'm putting my place on the market next Spring. Downsizing to a small two bed apartment or similar, and buying somewhere in Northern California, flitting between the two.
No problem with the size of parking spaces over there
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>>It's **** here for the reasons stated.
It's pretty darn good where I am. Perhaps you're just unlucky.
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>> It's pretty darn good where I am. Perhaps you're just unlucky.
>>
It's fantastic here.
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Penalty charges are a pain in the a*** and bear no resemblance to the income lost by the land owner. I.e. if the car park costs £5 for an hour and you overstay for an hour you should be charged £5, plus a small processing fee. Seems fair to me.
What gets my goat is that these charges have become an income stream and this is what brought clamping firms in to disrepute - charging £100's for a 5 minute job - con-men is too polite a description for them.
What is irksome is that the authorities have become wise to this and now see penalties as an income stream and this is not equitable with natural justice: tinyurl.com/o5e47ut
The same thing is happening at Magistrate courts with victim surcharges and fees increasing what should be small fines misdemeanors to un-affordable fines to those in society that may be poorer than us. The result is that they get a fine for littering for example but end up in prison because they cannot pay the exorbitant court fees. The result is that the tax payer foots the bill for prison in the end - which is madness.
Last edited by: zippy on Sun 16 Aug 15 at 10:34
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>> What is irksome is that the authorities have become wise to this and now see
>> penalties as an income stream and this is not equitable with natural justice: tinyurl.com/o5e47ut
The tinyurl is a link to an item in the London Evening Standard about Green Lanes, a street in the London Borough of Haringey.
The RAC foundation would say that wouldn't they. Any real evidence of conspiracy to confuse?
Looked at in isolation having different restrictions on one side of road from the other looks irksome and perhaps ridiculous. Green Lanes though is part of the A105; a north/south commuter artery. The traffic flow is tidal, south in the morning and north in the afternoon. Would those complaining rather restrictions were in place on both sides for both rush hours? Similarly the road is nearly two miles in length passing through a variety of commercial, local retail and residential districts.
Not saying the Council couldn't do better but there are many factors in play on a road like that.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 16 Aug 15 at 11:25
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>>Penalty charges are a pain in the a*** and bear no resemblance to the income lost by the land owner. I.e. if the car park costs £5 for an hour and you overstay for an hour you should be charged £5, plus a small processing fee. Seems fair to me.
If I own a piece of land and I want nobody parked on it for more than an hour, if I make the signs clear and the rules clear, why would I make the fine fair?
The London Congestion Charge is "fair" because they want you to continue driving there and pay it.
Parking/tow charges are extremely high because they do not want you to continue doing it.
So, if I want you to continue to park I just want to charge you, then I'll make it fair.
If I don't want you to park for more than an hour, then I'll make it very unfair so that you don't do it.
Any comments/complaints about lack of signage, inadequate signage, ricks and failings seem fair enough to me and should cancel any fine/penalty/charge.
But comments that people don't like how much they have to pay for parking on someone else's land when they were told that they could not, seem to need a bit of getting over it.
It may not be good business sense on behalf of the shop, but it does seem to be well within their rights. If I felt that my business was being damaged by "overstayers" preventing new parkers, I would have zero sympathy with them and charge them loads, just to make sure it never happened again.
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Thanks for letting us know LL, hope it works out.
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So do I! Having contacts in that part of the world helps....one is a Realtor, but I only expect to spend the max of 90 days out there at any one time, probably a bit less. Despite the rain, upper Ribblesdale is still a beautiful place to live and I would hate to move overseas full time.
Time to go out for a walk....Feizor, Austwick, Clapham, Stainforth circular. Back in time for early evening beer and a curry!
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What are you going to do with the place for the other 9 months? Not fancy a short term rent or is that not doable?
Last edited by: sooty123 on Sun 16 Aug 15 at 11:00
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It really isn't worthwhile letting for any period less than 12 months. Especially if you're going to use an agent.
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There's an online service which for £15 promises to get you off any civil parking ticket, or they'll pay the penalty.
I suspect - but can't prove - that it's actually run by the parking companies themselves. It worked for me, though.
Having said that, I got one from UKPC after the ticket blew upside-down on the dash... the car park is shared by the gym I use and when I told them I was going to cancel my membership for three months to pay the penalty, they got it sorted almost overnight with the parking company.
Maybe lean on the coffee shop?
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>> There's an online service which for £15 promises to get you off any civil parking
>> ticket, or they'll pay the penalty.
>>
>> I suspect - but can't prove - that it's actually run by the parking companies
>> themselves. It worked for me, though.
These people?
www.beatparkingticket.co.uk/parking/
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Might be worth investigating whether the scam parking company have planning permission for the ANPR cameras and the signage. If they haven't then the ticket is automatically invalid. Not that it is particularly valid in the first place.
If you are on Facebook, do a search for a group called Fight Your Private Parking Invoice. There are countless letter templates to use, and people who can advise you.
Last edited by: Badwolf on Sun 16 Aug 15 at 13:05
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Penalty Charge :( - smokie
