I spent a comfortable but unproductive morning at the dealership after the TDS's washers abruptly stopped working. When I arrived and described the problem (pump noise but little water) the service receptionist asked me what I'd been putting in the washer tank. My answer - Halfords Super-concentrate, as I've put in every car I've had - provoked some restrained teeth-sucking: "Whenever someone brings a car in with a washer problem, it turns out to have had Halfords screenwash in it."
Anyway, yes they could fix it, no my Approved Used warranty wouldn't cover it, so would I mind leaving the car all day and paying them £90? Some discussion ensued, along the lines of the car having been mine for only three months - and had anyone looked in the washer tank before selling it to me? - and of no-one having offered me the supposedly common knowledge that a generic product from a ubiquitous retailer could stop the system working, and we eventually agreed on my compromise proposal that I would pay them £0 and they'd have it fixed by lunchtime.
Which they did - and gave it a nice wash and vacuum too - but it seems I really do need to use BMW-branded screenwash at £18 for five litres. Using anything else risks creating more of the sticky gel that then blocks the feeds. The (different) service manager who returned the car to me did have the grace to smile when I asked if I should be putting BMW air in the tyres too.
This may, I think, throw new light on the washer jet (only one of two) that failed on the LEC shortly after we bought it. There's special MB screenwash too, which it would have had when it came from the dealer. Since the jet was replaced (for £50 by an independent) it's been fine, despite continued use of Halfords screenwash, so perhaps the problem is what happens when one product mixes with the other. Should be easy enough to test by mixing some in a flask, so see if anything solidifies.
So I have a decision to make: keep using Halfords and hope that it'll be OK; find another product that will play nicely with 'fanjet' systems (Lidl, inevitably, comes up in searches on this); or cough up for separate bottles of BMW and MB additive so I can leave the empties ostentatiously at the top of the recycle bin with the Krug bottles and the foie gras packets.
So, did anyone else know about this? The ever-reliable internet suggests it's been A Thing since about 2011.
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Wouldn't happen in a Vauxhall.
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I'm sticking to Fairy Liquid.
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No, and I regret not choosing one every, um, well, y'know...
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>> No, and I regret not choosing one every, um, well, y'know...
>>
I would rather pay £18 for screen wash than own a Vauxhall
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>> Wouldn't happen in a Vauxhall.
Er, actually it does. There's a filter in the bottom of the bottle that the washer pump fits into. That can crud up, but fortunately it only takes around 5 mins to strip and clean (if you know what you're doing). In fact I created a how2 on one of the Vectra-C forums to make life easier for others to clean theirs. i.e. it saves on having to remove the bumper and washer bottle to clean it. Just access it from the nearside wheel arch by undoing a couple of screws holding the wheel arch liner in place, peel it back and access to the pump and filter is made easy.
The Mk5 Astra is a bit more of a pig to do. I found the only way was to lay down on the floor, reach up into the bumper area where the bottle is and get soaked when removing the washer pump to access the filter.
Happy enough using Tesco's own brand stuff and not had a problem with it. I used to use some concoction from Halfords that was lime green in colour. When I had a car with headlight washers it left green streaks all up the bonnet that needed some elbow grease to remove it.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 5 Sep 15 at 17:11
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I put a few drops of Greencare washing up liquid in the reservoir and squirt water into it until it's full. Doesn't make stains or streaks, does clean the windscreen more or less.
I would never willingly buy anything with the brand name Greencare. But other people are less verbally snobbish and fascistic than I am.
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I've been buying Holts to dilute from Costco for about 20 years, 10% strength in summer and 20% in winter, never any sign of any gel or grot on my prole transports.
Grit is what blocks jets, presumably.
Once upon a time I used Fairy. Not so good. Also alleged to contain salt, and being as the way detergent works is to make water wetter so it gets everywhere, that doesn't seem to be a good thing for steel-bodied cars.
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Sonax do an excellent additive that dissolves traffic film, lasts for years and presumably dissolves any gunk building up in the lines.
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To the best of my current understanding, the problem is not that gunk builds up but that Halfords additive, perhaps when mixed with others, precipitates gelatinous lumps that then block either the tank outlets or the jets themselves. My experience with the LEC suggests it's the mixing that does it, hence my plan for a kitchen table experiment.
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>> My experience with the LEC suggests it's
>> the mixing that does it, hence my plan for a kitchen table experiment.
>>
There's an article somewhere by a guy from Holts and he said they're tried to re-create this gelling that apparently occurs when different screen washes are mixed, but they couldn't.
BMWs and VWs are well known for suffering from this, though - maybe they're unique in using "fan" jets?
I also used the Lidl (I think, or maybe it's Aldi?) stuff in ours - it's German anyway, like the cars, so it'll surely be OK. :)
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Over decades I have used all sorts of makes of screen wash additives and never had a problem even though I keep my cars for quite a few years..
The cars were mostly Fords but also a UNO, daughters Yaris ,Triumph 2000 and X type Jaguar.
I certainly would not use up market branded snake oil :-)
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I use water. Just water. Never bother with soap or snake oil.
Can't say I ever notice a problem with grease or anything.
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>> Can't say I ever notice a problem with grease or anything.
I'd certainly notice a problem with freezing.
I suppose I could knock it off between May and October, but I think the additive helps get the flies and bird shiite off.
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>> I use water. Just water. Never bother with soap or snake oil.
>>
>> Can't say I ever notice a problem with grease or anything.
Tends to freeze tho. Or it did the last time we had a winter here, which i admit was a while ago.
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I use halfords ready mixed, buy a shed load when they have a 2 for 1 offer. Never had a problem with it, it smells nice and it cleans well.
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Warmer where 'e lives, though, innit? Certainly wasn't freezing when I went.
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I use Triple QX from carparts4less, comes in concentrated form. Got loads of it in bogof last year. I prefer the concentrated stuff to the water down versions.
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S'fair point, I forgot about freezing. Having said that, it hasn't happened to me in years. Aren't the nozzles heated these days? I'd assumed that they were.
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Aren't the nozzles heated these days? I'd assumed that they were.
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Only in some new cars in the uk, I don't think they are very common.
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Used the standard Halfords concentrate stuff for a while but gave up 'cos it smelled awful. The lemon or 'summer meadow' versions were better but hideously expensive.
No prob with 'gel' in my various Citroens but Mrs B's late mother had stuff that looked/felt like waterlogged kitchen paper forming in the washer bottle of her Astra.
These days I make my own with alcool a nettoye or a brulee imported on my French trips mixed 10-20% with Anglian's best tapwater and a drop of washing up liquid to dissolve oily deposits.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 4 Sep 15 at 21:01
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alcool a nettoye or a brulee imported on
>> my French trips mixed 10-20%
Alcohol free, is that what that means?
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"cleaning alcohol". Meths?
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dunno alcohol free is what google translate says.
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>> alcool a nettoye or a brulee imported on
>> >> my French trips mixed 10-20%
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>> Alcohol free, is that what that means?
Definitely not alcohol free!!
I think it's roughly a meths type prepration sold as for either cleaning (nettoyer) or burning (bruler). Usually scented as vanilla, lemon or whatever.
Something that's cheap and easily available over there with no direct equivalent in England.
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Heated nozzles only deal with evaporative / wind chill cooling at the jet itself. If the liquid in the underbonnet pipes, windscreen and bottle are frozen they are irrelevant.
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>>If the liquid in the underbonnet pipes, windscreen and bottle are frozen they are irrelevant.
No doubt, but right on top of the engine doesn't seem the most likely place for pipes to stay frozen for long.
Anyway, whatever does it, I cannot recall the last time mine froze for any length of time.
Of course, if the windscreen is frozen I will be sitting in the house drinking coffee while the car sits outside with the engine running sorting itself out.
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>> No doubt, but right on top of the engine doesn't seem the most likely place
>> for pipes to stay frozen for long.
Trouble is, the bottle is often low and mounted somewhere near the front wheel outside the engine bay. - usually behind the front bumper.
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>> I use water. Just water. Never bother with soap or snake oil.
>>
Got caught out by the line to the rear window freezing in daughter's Ibiza a few years ago.
It's not one continuous line though, it's in sections with couplings, all of which popped off - the one under the washer bottle, under the glove box, in the rear quarter and the one to the jet in the hatch. Took all day and lots of swearing skinned knuckles to sort it.
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Once upon a time I used Fairy. Not so good. Also alleged to contain salt, and being as the way detergent works is to make water wetter so it gets everywhere, that doesn't seem to be a good thing for steel-bodied cars.
No alleged about it, Fairy does now contain salt. 30 years ago it didn't, but sometime between then and now it changed. Ruddy con too, the salt is basically a cheap bulking agent to make the liquid look thicker and more luxurious.
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>> Once upon a time I used Fairy. Not so good. Also alleged to contain salt,
>> and being as the way detergent works is to make water wetter so it gets
>> everywhere, that doesn't seem to be a good thing for steel-bodied cars.
I think the tons of salt blasted up on the underside of your car is more of an issue.
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SQ 4 LB again!
>> I think the tons of salt blasted up on the underside of your car is
>> more of an issue.
>>
The difference is the underside of the car is prepared for European markets for that. Have a look at where the windscreen meets the roof on some cars now. The old rubber surrounds are gone and some cars are now leaking between windscreen and roof.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 5 Sep 15 at 21:15
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I had a problem with screenwash turning to gel, pump whiring away and nothing coming out around 2000/1 with my FIAT Coupé. After that I switched to using distilled water only during the summer months to flush the system between winters.
I never got through that much screenwash until I started driving Volvos. Now I have a car with a washer bottle that holds more than a gallon and can be emptied in an afternoon.
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Don't the Russians just use cheap neat vodka as screenwash?! Maybe try that!
Coincidentally, back in around 2012 my X3 washers also gummed up WdB. The dealership flushed them all out at service time.
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I buy the one litre bottles of screen wash concentrate (about 70p each) and put an individual bottle's contents into a five litre can.
Fill to the top with water and you have the required dilution for the purpose; the can is kept in the boot for topping up until it's almost empty, when the sequence starts again. Never had any problems...:-)
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I'm sure this gel is some kind of bacterial bloom/biofilm. The fairy liquid thickener and surfactants in cheap washer fluid biodegrade, especially in the warm engine compartment and form a sludge. All decent proprietary additives contain preservatives to prevent this.
I think this is made worse by owners or garages repeatedly making partial top-ups instead of running down to ullage and refilling. These days I wait until empty and completely refill.
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Neighbour's old Polo suffered "black gunge" and no washers.
Hosed out bottle, filled with clean water and added Milton (baby bottle cleaner).....job done.
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The concentrated stuff you can buy from VW Group dealers is reasonably good value. It avoids smearing and freezing and works well in SWMBO's Mini as well as my Octavia.
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Certainly been A Thing since before 2011, I first had a problem in 2009 shortly after buying my BMW. I don't think it is a gelling issue with BMWs as I have never mixed screenwashes but still had the filters clog up. I believe it is just that BMWs have a very fine filter which blocks up over time with some screenwashes.
The BMW £18 for five litres screenwash is good for -63°C if used neat, but I think a heavily diluted solution will be sufficient in most of the UK.
There are 2 types of BMW branded screenwashes a summer screenwash see here tinyurl.com/q3djo8k and a winter version here tinyurl.com/q6qyz7t the summer variant is much cheaper per litre.
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"good for -63°C"
Won't the cooling system have exploded by then..?
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That is according to BMW "effective in undiluted form down to -63°C".
I cannot confirm that figure and as I live in the South West I wouldn't expect to see -6.3°C let along -63°C.
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Proprietary screenwash - Alanovich
