Leaving a roundabout on my way home tonight, I was dawdling a little in the left lane of two. There was line of slower cars a little ahead of me, and a Peugeot 3-oh-nevermind just behind in the lane to my right. The rest of the right lane was clear and I didn't fancy falling in behind the Peugeot while it got up to speed to pass the slow cars.
So I pressed the pedal, expecting the steady surge of third-gear acceleration to take me ahead of the Peugeot and into clear space. Only something else happened...
...in pootling off the roundabout I'd neglected to change up, and was still in second. Something erupted under the bonnet, there was a noise from the exhaust I'd never heard before, and we leapt forward at (to me) an astonishing rate. By the time I'd collected my thoughts enough to find third and take a look in the mirror, the little Peugeot was a vanishing speck.
So, a surprise - and not, once I realized what was happening, an unpleasant one. But is this how my moderately sensible-shoes diesel saloon was really built to be driven? Have I just been babying it these last three months?
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>> But is this how my moderately sensible-shoes diesel saloon was really built to be driven?
Of course it is.
>> Have I just been babying it these last three months?
Yes, and you will wreck the DPF.
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Diesel's are all about the torque. This is how they can be driven if you so desire.
Knowing I might miss the torque and opting for a petrol turbo (less bhp and less torque thab the last diesel car) I went for the DSG. Actually it suited the 1.4T petrol engine IMO. But I had gone for the more powerful/more torquey diesel last time because I thought the gearing of the lower power engine was limited.... But I find when I want to I can floor it and it will move (especially in sport mode and holds the revs) but I like mimsing at times. :-)
Next car quite possibly a diesel again because the 3% BIK charge will be no more. In gear acceleration of diesels is ace. Must try a BMW 550d!
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Diesels are all about the torque.
That's what I thought too, and that's after driving nothing else daily for 13 years. This engine does the wave-of-torque thing as well as any - it's not slow and I've not been driving it slowly, at least when I've had a choice - but what took me aback this time was power. The engine revved past 4000 and, rather than running out of puff, kept on going. I must have provoked the Volvo like that at some point but I don't remember it ever responding quite so fiercely.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Mon 21 Sep 15 at 22:38
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The difference in the V60 between normal and sport modes on the gearbox is astonishing. It just rides a wave of torque, flicking lazily through the gears like a well-thumbed magazine.
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>> Diesel's are all about the torque. This is how they can be driven if you
>> so desire.
I had a similar experience in our (twin-turbo) Transporter. The kick-down on the loud pedal is so stiff that it didn't get used for ages - the torque was sufficient to make good progress. But when the kick-down, er, kicked in for the first time the revs almost got to the red line on the rev-counter! Almost.
Last edited by: Boxsterboy on Tue 22 Sep 15 at 10:56
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Has anyone got experience of the BMW 2.0 petrol engine - as in the 320i?
I ask because my 2.0 petrol Octavia vRS can do the same trick as WdB's 325d, as unlike some petrol engines the VW Group 2.0 has plenty of torque. Next year I may think of something a little higher off the ground, and a 2-series Active Tourer (good car, silly name) is a possibility.
It's always possible that a Press scare could send the value of diesel cars plummeting, and after five diesel cars before this one I really don't miss the noise they make. But I don't want to be stuck with a petrol engine that is sluggish below 2000rpm, and an advocate as eloquent as WdB could make me think again about diesel. Even in semi-retirement I do about 15,000 miles a year, so financially I'm on the edge between petrol and diesel.
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My Jetta's 170bhp 1.4 TSi petrol engine has a supercharger and turbocharger (hence the T representing Twin) and the torque output as a result is virtually flat from between 1,750 and 4,500rpm, with 80 per cent still available to more than 6,000rpm.
It provides both performance and reasonable economy, with fuel consumption averaging around halfway between a petrol and diesel engines' consumption, which was VW's main aim.
The lighter weight of the 1.4-litre engine also means improved steering feel and much less understeer than with a diesel unit...:-)
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Jolly good, but so what? With a flat 240 Nm (I looked it up) you can probably get a baby version of the wave of torque. And we expect small petrol engines to rev, because they have to.
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I don't get this fad about torque. If you have low torque, use lower gears which will multiply torque .
Even a small petrol engine produces high torque @ 4000-5000 RPM range (along with high power).
I guess hybrids beat diesel on torque as electric motors produce constant torque at any RPM.
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What is the point of having a car with an abundance of power and torque, only ever using 25% of it and then being shocked when you have gearstick confusion and release some of the horses?
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>> But is this how my moderately sensible-shoes diesel saloon was really built to be driven?
Sorry WdB - which diesel saloon is it?
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It's a BMW 325d, Blurry, as Avant correctly says higher up.
The point, ON, is that it's adequately fast, and will overtake anything I need it to, without attention-seeking hooliganism. (I decided I preferred it to a Golf GTI precisely because it was more ready to deliver power in a way I could use on my congested regular drives.) What surprised me was how much hooligan was below the surface, waiting to be discovered by what you kindly call my 'gearstick confusion'.
Funny thing: I seldom drive very quickly on perfectly clear roads. What I appreciate is a car that will get me easily past those who are preventing me from travelling at my comfortable get-there speed. Not always possible on Southeast roads, of course, but that's why the 2-litre+ turbodiesels I've had have suited me well.
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>> It's a BMW 325d, Blurry, as Avant correctly says higher up.
I hate it when people don't read threads before posting :)
Nice motor.
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Exactly: nice - or so I thought. That's why the 'nasty' side I discovered last night was a bit of a surprise! The metallic snarl from the exhaust made what hair I have stand on end, but perhaps ON's Yaris does that all the time.
};---)
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>> but perhaps ON's Yaris does that all the time. };---)
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Now that would be a surprise, but at least I have always known the limitations and capabilities of whatever I am driving. A surprised driver is unpredictable, not good.
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...at least I have always known the limitations and capabilities of whatever I am driving.
And you discovered them how?
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Like this.
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=18298&m=404571
A probable limitation of your car is having gearstick confusion, flooring it, spinning up the back wheels, and disappearing backwards into the scenery.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 22 Sep 15 at 15:38
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True, I suppose - and I did quite a lot of experimenting similar to yours in my early weeks with the car, to the point where I could tell you quite a lot about its steering, acceleration, braking and gearchanging.
This is one facet I evidently missed, and once I realized what was happening (probably about half a second) and was sure - as I had been before the manoeuvre - that the lane ahead was clear enough and that I had a slow-down option (plenty of engine braking in second gear) if anything pulled out, I made a conscious decision to press on and see what happened. It probably took barely five seconds from start to finish (the car will just reach 60 in second, and can do that in 7s or so, but I had a 15-20mph rolling start) so it was hardly an epic journey, and everything remained under control.
It wasn't so much 'three-litre car accelerates well in low gear' that surprised me; more that my 'sensible' diesel version (not even a semi-skimmed 330d) should make such aggressive noises while doing it. The Golf GTI I tested had an electronic generator to create them but I think mine were purely mechanical. I suppose I was just wondering if others here had discovered unexpected facets of a car's character.
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My son in law did an inadvertent acceleration in his Honda S2000, the road was damp and it swapped ends. Fortunately no damage done other than a serious ear bending from my daughter. :-)
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I thought many cars with high power or torque outputs had limiters in 1st and 2nd.
My own car will rev out in those two gears but will not rev beyond 3500rpm from 3rd gear onwards. Maybe it is linked to how much air the low volume trubo can push into the cylinders.
On the plus side long gearing and 480Nm mean 40mph gains in sixth only require a 1000rpm increment. 60mph is at 1500rpm, the turbo is awake from 1400rpm. In the real world it means showing restraint on the motorway as it easily gains speed.
Last edited by: gmac on Wed 23 Sep 15 at 09:01
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Limiting the higher gears to 3500 seems odd, Gmac. This car and the Volvo that preceded it will both pass 80 in third, which requires upwards of 4000rpm. At 18 mph per 1000rpm - a pretty typical third for a turbodiesel - that would mean hitting the limiter at 63, which could be inconvenient during an overtaking manoeuvre. Are you sure?
Your sixth sounds similar to mine, which is surprisingly usable and forgiving of traffic-induced speed reductions on the motorway. Much more relaxing than the last six-speeder we had, the Verso, which really didn't like dropping below 60 in sixth.
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>> Limiting the higher gears to 3500 seems odd, Gmac. This car and the Volvo that
>> preceded it will both pass 80 in third, which requires upwards of 4000rpm. At 18
>> mph per 1000rpm - a pretty typical third for a turbodiesel - that would mean
>> hitting the limiter at 63, which could be inconvenient during an overtaking manoeuvre. Are you
>> sure?
>>
Yep, in this D3, you always have to be a gear higher than where you think you want to be. 4th is "the gear" in this car. It will pull hard from 40 to 80 in 4th, the odd gears I really don't get, I block change 6th, 4th, 2nd. 1st gets the wheels rolling, 3rd and 5th are pretty pointless really.
I don't think there is an electronic limiter or governor it's all the car will give in any of the higher gears. The turbo runs out of air.
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"And that the truth Officer" :)
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I didn't know it could do that. - Old Navy
