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Ok, in the spirit of adventure, I today put down a deposit on a new Renault Zoe. If anyone is interested, I'll bang on about it from time to time and let you all know what the reality of electric cars is like.
I plan at first to keep the Volvo and see where we are before committing to the Zoe entirely for our sole transport, if we ever do, so I have that backup. But it was a very cheap deal indeed in the end.
Not sure if I will actually save much money as long as I have the Volvo as well, but it might just about wash its face. If we decide it does work for us and the Volvo does go in a few months then I will be better off financially, but really for me it's more of a little "adventure" and also keeps the local pollution down in town.
So there we are. You can all go back to sleep now.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 30 Jan 16 at 18:06
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Well done Crankcase. I'm envious almost.
I'm intrigued by electric cars, and I approve of Renaults too. Hope it gives you a taste of tomorrow's world...
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but really for me it's more of a little "adventure"
>> and also keeps the local pollution down in town.
>>
And cranks it up a bit at Drax. ;-)
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Sounds good, keep us up to date on how it's going.
What does 'just about wash it's face' mean?
Last edited by: sooty123 on Wed 28 Oct 15 at 19:15
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Break even,cover its cost. An expression used by dealers. You obviously don't watch daytime TV auction programs. :-)
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Usually "wiped its face" rather than "washed"
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>> Usually "wiped its face" rather than "washed"
Unadvisable to use the wipers when your charge is getting low.
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>> Break even,cover its cost. An expression used by dealers.
Ahh right never heard of that one.
You obviously don't watch daytime TV
>> auction programs. :-)
>>
Correct.
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'Electric' - 'Renault' - can't see any problems there :)
Seriously, good luck - looking forward to your reports.
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>> Ok, in the spirit of adventure, I today put down a deposit on a new
>> Renault Zoe. If anyone is interested, I'll bang on about it from time to time
>> and let you all know what the reality of electric cars is like.
I knew you were going to do that, you have spent the last two months trying to convince us (you) that an electro car was the way to go.
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Brilliant, looking forward to hearing about it. It would make perfect sense for us as a local daily commute car, with an ICE car alongside also.
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Delivery isn't until post Christmas, so nothing much till then. But in terms of the deal, I compared it to the Nissan Leaf we test drove.
In brief, best deal on the Leaf I could source for a two year pcp and then hand back, which is what we plan with this, was £2700 deposit, and £311 a month for the spec we wanted.
The Zoe isn't so nice inside, and who knows whether the build quality will be ok. At least the I won't have to worry about the clutch, exhaust, head gasket, oil filter, dpf, dmf, or gearbox, amongst all the other usual stuff, as it doesn't have any of those things.
But once we decided to go for it anyway, as it's an experiment, the deal was a deposit of an eye watering whole £89 and then £169 a month, so over two years that's a lot less money chucked at it. A lot less.
You still get toys such as cruise, electric windows, climate control, rear view camera, built in satnav, ability to warm or cool the car from your phone, Bluetooth, video and music on the central huge screen, usb socket, a glovebox big enough for almost a whole mouse, seats you perch on rather than in, headlining that feels like the inside of a cardboard box, and so forth.
Also unlimited mileage warranty (at least for the two years we will have it) and roadside assistance in the price. Both the warranty and assistance are actually for four years. Optional servicing package is £299 for four years. Didn't take that as first service is about £80 and second about £150 apparently.
Battery is covered, and if it drops below 70% it gets replaced, although nobody on the forums is reporting any serious battery degradation yet, and a few have had them a couple of years now.
Deals are at the link below and this is where I got it, but they change all the time, hence putting the numbers in this post for posterity.
Incidentally, fastest ever car purchase. Basically it was
"I'd like to buy a Zoe at the price you have on your website please"
"Certainly sir, that'll be £89".
www.dsg-renault.co.uk/model.php?type=cars&model=zoe
Last edited by: Crankcase on Wed 28 Oct 15 at 21:15
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Will follow with great interest.
How many miles can you cover per year?
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For that price I get 7500 a year, and our commute and general weekend running about is in the order of 8000 so should be about right. You can go higher of course. Each extra 2500 miles seems to be about £25 a month all up extra.
Interestingly if I exceed and do 10000, the mileage penalty at about 16p per mile works out at only £16 per month extra.
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Good luck with it, I do hope it works out well. I would like to think that an electric car is viable, I'd like one myself.
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I called in at the Tesla showroom again this evening, Fashion Square in Scottsdale, en route to Lola's chicken & waffles. I spent an hour there on Monday, chatting with the nice young sales guy. He was a petrol ( gas) head and wanted to know all about JC & Top Gear! He was also excited about imminent fatherhood and when I called in today he had been replaced by a luvly lass who told me he had just started 7 weeks paternity leave. Tesla looks after its employees.
We chatted about stuff....t'Dales, Hadrians Wall, York and eventually cars. She told me thatTesla are producing, and selling, 50k this year, increasing to 75k next year when they introduce an SUV. The accelerstion figures are pretty good, a 9 year battery guarantee and 5 year warranty in the USA. If I remember correctly. She was very distracting.
Of course I had to buy a grey tee shirt....currently out of stock on the website.
Hope the Zoe meets your expectations...damn sight cheaper than a Tesla!
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Edit
Battery & drive train warranty is 8 years not 9
Delivery of the model X (SUV) scheduled for late 2016, and I love the Falcon doors.. Gull wing as we knew them. The fastest model does 0-60 in 3.2, 155 mph & 250 mile range. Probably 100 the way I would drive it!
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Bravo, Cranks! Good to see someone here try something genuinely different. Hope it works well for you - but see note below.
I think your two-year plan is the right idea, too. The technology is on a steep upward curve just now, so in two years there will be more choice and more capable cars. Perhaps at better prices too, although it's hard to see how you'd get two years in a new and fully supported car for much less than you're paying for this one.
Note below: Like the others here, I look forward to reading your reports. And, since you're doing this in the spirit of experimentation, you have nothing to justify and no need to save face, so you can give us the unvarnished truth. We can take it.
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I admire your courage. Hope you prove me wrong about modern French cars...
:-)
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This will be interesting and informative. We need Brave Progressive Pioneers for the benefit of the rest of us in years to come.
Mind you, I had CC down as a SBB, ROTM MOR type. Not A BPP.
Salute you sir, surprised me.
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Update 1.
Charging.
There is a single charging post at the local park and ride. By coincidence I happened to be there this morning so had a gander.
There are two spaces, clearly marked for electric cars only. There are a gadzillion other spaces, most of which were free.
One side of the post had an empty space, but the post on that side had red light on it, and an error message. Clearly duff at this moment. The other side had an Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) car parked in it, and by the look of the condensation on it, it had been there perhaps all night.
So if I or anyone else with an EV had wanted to use that charging post, stuffed I would have been this morning, unless I trailed a cable across the interloper's bonnet (might not be a cool move, that, you never know what they might be like). I was, as they say, ICEd.
Some EV owners in this situation shrug and wait hopefully, some report it to the car park owner, some just move on elsewhere if possible, some put a leaflet of varying shoutiness on the ICE windscreen, and some get really grumpy, park across the rear of the ICE and go into town for three hours. I guess you have to decide for yourself how to handle it and how much confrontation or otherwise you are interested in.
On the plus side, I would have had to pay for a parking ticket (£1) but the actual electricity would have been free, if I could have used it.
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>> some get really grumpy, park across the rear of the ICE and go into town for three hours.
>>
Pathetic and risking sidewall damage x 4.
EV charging points in my local Waitrose are in the two closest slots to the entrance and usually empty so there is a bonus as the place is busy.
Rarely are the slots occupied by peasants cars and rarely are any of the chargers plugged in.
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Its not a problem round my way. There are no electric charging spots.
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Interesting new car idea Crankcase... well done for giving it a go. Every time I'm near an elec car pulling away (i8 last time!) I think "I wonder".
Are you based Cambridge outskirts... wonder how far to town or do you always use park & ride?
It could just work for us to have one as a second car but it would mean some carefully scheduled swapping so Mrs F used mine for her longer runs. But all the below would be manageable without an interim charge.
Round trip distances...
Weekly shop 16mls
Small village supermarket (walk often) 2mls
Large multi outlet shopping centre 22mls
Garden centre 22mls
Dentist 28mls
Doctor (walk) 1ml
Giving uni daughter lift to summer job 4mls
Visit parents 20mls
Station 20mls
Wickes/Screwfix (essential!) 20mls
Cambridge (gigs) 60mls
Tip 8mls
I would hate to rely on interim charges because as you found.... and for a variety of other reasons one might not be available.
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Zero, there probably are charging points somewhere near you actually. But generally, if you are using the car as Fenlander describes (and I plan to) - that is, local little runs - you won't need one anyway, as hopefully one is organised enough to have charged at home before you leave.
I should have added that the Zoe comes with a free home charger installed at your property as well, which is faster than just plugging it into a standard socket, though I will have that standard three pin plug option too if wanted when out and about visiting somewhere. That was the one option I DID pay for, and it was an eye watering £500. Ouch. Comes free with a Leaf - but then with that you have to pay a couple of hundred or so for the home charger, so it's swings and roundabouts.
Fenlander, we live a mile from the park and ride, (total commute is 11 miles each way) but we never actually use it, preferring to drive in. That's mostly a cost based decision - my lovely diesel in traffic in winter at about half a mile a gallon is still WAY cheaper than the bus fare, which at the moment stands at £13.00 a day return for two people, plus another £1 to park. Even if you take out a Megarider for a month it still only drops to about £11.50 a day.
The car costs about £2-3 I guess in fuel at the worst.
The Zoe will cost nearer 50p in total for the 22 mile return journey in electricity, assuming all the electricity comes from home and isn't grabbed for free somewhere else as I go, in which case my fuel costs will of course, be nothing at all.
Your list of places you could go have a red flag - Cambridge 60 miles. You therefore need a range of 120 miles if you plan on ever going home. That's apparently possible in a Zoe or a new Leaf, (certainly in a Tesla), but it would have to be absolutely perfect summer conditions and drive like a nun to get that I think. I'll find out.
Of course, what you'd actually do would be to park and ride at Cambridge and let it charge while you went into town - if you're not ICEd. Or go to Cambridge Services and use their super duper rapid charger for free, where about 30 minutes charging would get about you 60 miles. Just enough time to spend all the money you saved on petrol in Starbucks.
All the others - easy range.
Edit - you said round trip, sorry. So the Cambridge trip works easily. But I'll leave the stuff I wrote up anyway.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Thu 29 Oct 15 at 11:19
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If you don't already know about it you might find this map of all the charging point in the UK useful.
Surrey Hills is a bit of a charging wilderness. Milton Keynes is the place to be if you run out of power. ;-)
www.zap-map.com/live/#y=52.02787/x=0.87088/z=11
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Thu 29 Oct 15 at 11:20
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I'm led to believe zap-map isn't entirely comprehensive, that there are other maps too (like open charge map, cyc (charge your car) and plugshare) plus all the individual charging companies, the one at the Renault website, the one at the Nissan website, numerous apps on smartphones, and none of them are entirely complete or live.
It's a mess, so we have to hope it will get better. I anticipate using actual chargepoints will, or would, take some planning, a prayer and a couple of wings.
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>> Zero, there probably are charging points somewhere near you actually.
Seriously, both my local shopping areas have Zero. My nearest is an asda three miles away, and as its in the middle of the area of depravation, the charging area is full of uninsured un taxed bangers.
This is Surrey, the land of 4x4s and SUVs or poverty. Neither is fertile EV territory.
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One in asda down 'ere, never seen a leccy use it, it's blocked orf to stop the great unwashed from using it.
www.nextgreencar.com/electric-cars/charging-points.php
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Good luck with it, CC. Like everyone else I look forward to hearing of your experiences.
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I echo the sentiments above. Really looking forward to your feedback.
No charging points in my part of t'Dales. Could be wrong though.
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I've noticed a few new builds round here with charging points even though the owners do not have electric cars. Is it becoming mandatory on new properties now?
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Had a glance at the charge point map and was truly amazed in our Cotswold family home village the manor house which lets 5 holiday cottages has two points in the courtyard... very forward thinking.
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[Are charging points] becoming mandatory on new properties now?
Don't know for certain but I suspect so, above a certain size at least. They're on the plans for the West London H-borough property I work in, which is getting a major revamp over the next 18 months, although that wasn't quite soon enough to sell me a plug-in hybrid this time round.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Fri 30 Oct 15 at 17:55
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>> One in asda down 'ere, never seen a leccy use it, it's blocked orf to
>> stop the great unwashed from using it.
>>
>> www.nextgreencar.com/electric-cars/charging-points.php
>>
Just had a look at that. The nearest charging point is 14 miles away from me.
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When you get it, can you put me down for a pint of goldtop each day, and a case of strawberry yoghurt on Saturdays?
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Oh.. you're not starting a milkround?
sorry....
;-)
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Update
Home chargepoint
Just received a mail from Chargemaster, effectively to say "fill in this form, send us photos of your fuseboard/meter/desired charger location and we'll get in touch to discuss/get it installed lickety-split. Please respond in 2-3 working days."
The form makes a big play about how it's mostly funded by the tax payer (thanks everyone), so you can have a little seethe about that. The balance is funded by Renault (well, I suppose it's built into the car price of course in reality, but it's invisible as a direct charge to me anyway).
In my own circumstances, though, I'm pretty sure that on the day they will say "too difficult, not going to happen", because the meter is RIGHT at the front of the house and my desired location - or indeed any sensible location - is Blinking Miles away. Can't imagine it would be possible to run cabling through the house and can't see how they can get it down the drive and into the garden where the "parking shed" is without trenching, and I know they don't do that, so it may not happen.
No idea if Renault or anyone else would care in that case, I suspect it will just be my problem and I'll have to rely on public chargers or using just a 13amp socket and accepting a full charge will take many many hours (about 8 apparently, so bearable for overnight charging but not fantastic).
We'll see.
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Now that kind of thing would have informed my decision about whether or not to order the car in the first place, rather than order it and then find out.
I'd be fine, my electricity meter is in the garage, and I'd want the charger right in the same spot. Would be perfect.
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I kind of knew up front it might be a difficult site, hence another reason for ordering the optional lead to allow 13 amp charging.
So if I DO get a home charger out of it, it will be bunce.
Of course I can guarantee getting one if I'm prepared to lift floorboards and so on to get the wiring laid nicely, or pay for the civils and trench it. As in either case I expect it would be lots of money, I might well elect not to if push comes to shove.
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So long as you're appy, Cc. Would have put me off though I reckon.
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>> I'd be fine, my electricity meter is in the garage, and I'd want the charger
>> right in the same spot. Would be perfect.
>>
Although an electric car would not be suitable for our use, my garage is integral with the house and I would be wary of charging a big lithium battery effectively in the house. Does anyone know if there would be house insurance implications?
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>> Although an electric car would not be suitable for our use, my garage is integral
>> with the house and I would be wary of charging a big lithium battery effectively
>> in the house. Does anyone know if there would be house insurance implications?
Charging big lithium batteries are perfectly safe, I mean Boeing chose them for their state of the art aeroplanes..........
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Can't you dg the trench for the cabling yourself? Not difficult but time consuming which is why company doesn't want to do it. I dug 80 ft trench for my greenhouse cabling.
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The chances of me digging a trench are none to minus infinity. I have to get a man in to replenish the bird feeders, never mind real masculine tasks.
However, having just got home in the light for various reasons, and having had a prowl around Crankcase Towers, I've found a possible place that has amazingly met with wifely approval, so there is a glimmer of hope after all. Not ideal, but it will do.
So I now have three options for the installers, and if, as I imagine they/we will, they do reject options one and two out of hand, the third will just about do.
Excelsior.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Fri 30 Oct 15 at 16:59
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Our mains feed and fuse boxes are outside the house in the ideal place for a charging point to be added. What a pity we don't have an electric car or hybrid.
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I think an electric car would be spot on for us. But as we rent it's a bit of an issue. Not really got anywhere to park it apart from on the street so charging would be an issue. i think I'd have to run the cable out of a window. Pity, someday I think I'd like to own one, I think they would be quite useful to us and our driving pattern. I think you have to own your own house though to make it work.
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That of course is the anomaly with electric cars. In theory they're ideal for mainly urban use - but most town dwellers park their cars on the street, if they're lucky, or several streets away if they aren't.
So you run the cable out from the house, leaving a ground floor window open overnight (Hi, Mr Burglar - do drop in....). Either an old lady trips over it and sues you, or some revellers on their way home from the pub think it a jolly jape to unplug the cable (pity about that early start in the morning and the rush to the airport).
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Interesting thread, and I too look forward to regular updates. My mileage has decreased so much since I now train/cycle to work that I have half thought about a Zoe.
Surrey charging points: 4 at Ashtead railway station, 1 in Cobham main car park.
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I wonder how the breakdown services would deal with an electric car, I mean, they could hardly just give you a jump start if you had flat batteries.
I suppose they would have to transport (beam up, Scotty) said leccy to the nearest charging point.
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...[breakdown services] could hardly just give you a jump start if you had flat batteries.
Why not? This week's conference giveaway was a little battery pack with USB inputs and outputs. I can charge it up, then use it to give an emergency charge to another portable device (although, frustratingly, not an iPad, as it can't produce enough current.)
Scale that up a bit and put it in a van and you have a rescue service for electric vehicles. The breakdown services have set up special mobile units for wrong-pump plonkers; this would just be another adaptation to the changing face of motoring. If my idea of standard, replaceable batteries ever comes to pass, it'll be even easier.
(And let's not hear any lithium ion battery safety arguments; if a lorryload of petrol is safe, a battery in a van is nothing to worry about.)
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The Zoe is on my radar for when the 11-y-o C8 finally succumbs to its DPF ills and we stop caravanning, so I'm following this with inerest.
"Donald MacSporran, the AA's Head of Technical, says: "Our patrols have technical information on electric vehicles ..."
Donald MacSporran? - got to be a made-up name, shirley?
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...when the 11-y-o C8 finally succumbs to its DPF ills and we stop caravanning...
...and people make DPFs out to be a bad thing.
}:---P
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>> That of course is the anomaly with electric cars. In theory they're ideal for mainly
>> urban use - but most town dwellers park their cars on the street, if they're
>> lucky, or several streets away if they aren't.
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We are out in the sticks, but not everyone has a garage and/or driveway. Although I do agree for many the recharging process is impracticle. Mind you how many people actually keep their car in the garage?
>> So you run the cable out from the house, leaving a ground floor window open
>> overnight (Hi, Mr Burglar - do drop in....). Either an old lady trips over it
>> and sues you, or some revellers on their way home from the pub think it
>> a jolly jape to unplug the cable (pity about that early start in the morning
>> and the rush to the airport).
>>
That reminds me, in a previous house there was a chap down the street who used to heat his car up with an oil filled radiator all the time. He just ran a cable out the window and across the pavement. Never caused any problems. The windows used to be soaking wet, never quite worked out why he needed so hot all time?
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>> Our mains feed and fuse boxes are outside the house in the ideal place for a charging point to be added.
But in a damn awkward place, wet underfoot, for going out, opening the fuse box with a screwdriver and then trying to remember the right order to reset the damn trips so that the one that has tripped will stay untripped, in the howling wind and pouring rain. Had to do it late last night. It's a big relief when the lights come on because I always think they aren't going to.
I'm a technophile but I don't trust anything really. Trouble is I can't afford staff, and anyway they are always carp. I've tried to persuade the electrician to put the relevant box inside the house, just on the other side of the wall, but there's some tiresome regulation I think.
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The consumer unit, which is what I assume where you are resetting trips, is usually in the house. There is certainly no regulation against it.
Ask again.
And ask why they keep tripping, as well.
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>> The consumer unit, which is what I assume where you are resetting trips, is usually
>> in the house. There is certainly no regulation against it.
In the garage is a pretty common location. Often means going outside to access the thing. Torch lives by front door here for that purpose.
>> And ask why they keep tripping, as well.
Bulbs blowing were the culprit for pretty much every trip in each of last three houses. Fault on cooker, kettle and washer accounted for rest.
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RCD-equipped circuits are particularly sensitive to the small surge as a bulb goes. Or should I say 'were' and 'went'? CFLs and now LEDs have made that another fading domestic memory.
[Reminds self too late that half those here still think gaslight is terribly newfangled.]
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Mon 11 Jan 16 at 21:21
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>>Or should I say 'were' and 'went'?
Prezackly.
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For my Mitsubishi PHEV I dug a 30 metre trench along my pathway from the shed (where there was already a fuse box) to my parking area, bought the correct grade armoured cable and Chargemaster were happy to just connect each end. The other thing you need to watch is that, for the Govt grant, you must have O2 connectivity so the box of tricks can be interrogated every now and again by Big Brother. My reception is poor but the guy signed it off anyway.
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Hi Cc,
How do you find the build quality of your S60 ?
Got to say my 2011 S60 is a HUGE disappointment after my 2005 S60. Would it be the end of your world to dispose of the Volvo ? I'm probably going to ditch mine in early 2016 as the rattles and creaks are seriously doing my head in. I have a plan in place and a Golf GTe or GTi is at the head of the list.
I like the idea of a GTe but the petrol head in me is still saying GTi. There is currently a Scirocco R in the local VW emporium and while it presses all the right buttons as a solo commuter car (even though it looks like a 3 door Golf Rooney has sat on), a five door GTi has greater appeal. The GTe with solar panels at home would work but current (no pun intended) output is not great enough to feed the car. Moon power is no substitute either.
Last edited by: gmac on Sat 31 Oct 15 at 21:14
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My 2011 S60 is super. Funnily enough we were out for a run yesterday and I noticed a rattle, which has never happened before. But it turned out just to be something n the door pocket. So no, nary a squeak or rattle at all, 52k on it is all. Very comfy, returns okayish economy, adaptive cruise makes for really stress free journeys, what's not to like? Well, we know what's not to like, hence trying something electric.
S60 was in for service on Friday, and they gave me a new V40 manual. Horrid experience in traffic, all that clutch stuff and having to actually concentrate on your distance from the car in front. One commute was enough to remind me I'll never have a manual again by choice, although I know in the Zoe I'll be back to watching distances again, mores the pity.
Golf GTE I know nothing about, as even in my hybrid driving days I didn't consider looking at VW, and having now psychologically convinced myself to go pure EV, a halfway house doesn't feel what I want to do, although obviously it cures range anxiety at a stroke. I did half think about the Prius again, but it was bit "been there done that" for me. One of the main Zoe attractions for this experiment is the pleasingly inexpensive payments, which nothing else new gets anywhere near, especially in hybrids.
If they did an electric S60 it would be right at the top of the list, but there isn't one. Something similar is planned in the next two years by Volvo apparently though, which is just when I might be looking again.
Be a lot more choices over the next 24 to 36 months I reckon from all manufacturers.
Golf GTE is probably lovely though.
Edit:Volvo electric 2019, not 2017.
www.engadget.com/2015/10/15/volvo-first-full-electric-car-2019/
Last edited by: Crankcase on Sun 1 Nov 15 at 08:02
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Thanks for that comprehensive reply.
I quite enjoy driving my wife's Auris hybrid though who does not enjoy some extra power which is why I was looking at the GTe. Range anxiety is my biggest problem, my daily commute is about to rise from 20 miles per day to around 55. In winter at -10 and below that might be pushing the range when the car is not plugged in during the day.
Lots to think about in the coming months.
You would know if you had the ball bearing metal-on-metal type roll and clunk in the B pillar of your S60.
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...ball bearing metal-on-metal type roll and clunk in the B pillar...
Seat belt mechanism?
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Probably, I feel I've spent enough money on this car sorting out rattles and squeaks that should not be there. To get in there is more effort than just removing the B pillar trim and more effort than I am prepared to put into this car.
Life's too short to put up with rattly trimmed cars.
Last edited by: gmac on Sun 1 Nov 15 at 13:12
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Update
Energy sources - couple of thoughts
Bit long, sorry.
Ok, so you buy an electric car and you think aha, but where does my electricity actually come from? Is it all smoke and mirrors and in fact the pollution is just "somewhere else"?
So this weekend's pokery reveals that:
I'm on an EDF Blue tariff. They also offer a "renewable" tariff.
The main people who provide charging points on motorways are Ecotricity. You can have your domestic supply with them if you want. That is "100% renewable". You also get a discount if you have an electric car, of £40 a year.
Ok, of course it turns out that for either company, the renewable tariff is more expensive than the one I'm on, even after the discount if I changed to Ecotricity.
It also turns out that "100% renewable" just means in both cases they pay enough money to cover the cost of buying 100% of their customers' electricity. That simply means that amount of electricity "goes into" the National Grid from wind/solar/whatever. I think. The actual electricity that dribbles out of your sockets could come from anywhere, including coal, oil, and so on.
It then turns out that the "blue" tariff I'm on is 100% nuclear. But as above, the same scheme applies so my electricity MIGHT be via nuclear or it MIGHT be by a coal fired power station, depending on a million variables, and it's ever changing.
Finally, the nuclear power industry, in true Mandy Rice-Davies fashion, say at
www.niauk.org/facts-and-information-for-nuclear-energy
"COâ‚‚ is the main cause of climate change. Nuclear power generation is extremely low carbon. Through its lifecycle nuclear power produces a similar amount of COâ‚‚ emissions as wind power, and much less than solar. For each kilowatt hour of nuclear electricity, five grams of carbon dioxide is emitted, compared to around 365g from gas fired power stations, or 900g from a coal fired power station.
In the UK, the power generated by existing power stations avoids the emissions of 40 million tonnes of carbon dioxide a year – the equivalent of taking almost half of Britain’s cars off the road."
So in summary, I don't reckon there's much to be achieved in reality as far as pollution goes by me swapping to a "renewable" energy source, so I might as well stick where I am and pay a few pence per unit less.
I can only think and hope that whatever pollution is produced by the power station, whatever it is, is managed by them in a better way as far as the atmosphere is concerned than letting end users produce it at street level is all. Who knows.
What IS certain is that the cyclist behind me and Mrs Dooflip and her twin baby Dooflips aren't physically breathing fumes from my car as I drive by, and perhaps that's good enough.
I appreciate that making the darn thing at all has probably resulted in the asthmatic death of twenty five thousand people and I am personally responsible for this genocide, obviously.
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Don't worry, global climate change warming is only a northern hemisphere phenomenon. :-)
tinyurl.com/ozba253
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 2 Nov 15 at 12:33
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>>. I think. The actual
>> electricity that dribbles out of your sockets could come from anywhere, including coal, oil, and
>> so on.
>>
So it's not really a moral issue then?
A bit like a vegetarian eating meat, comforting himself by the thought that probably, somewhere in the world, someone is producing vegetarian food. :)
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A moral issue? Oh blimey no. I don't do green in any particular way. Hence not going to be ditching my lovely incandescent lightbulbs for a more expensive inferior (in my opinion) product any time soon.
Otherwise I'd be cycling to work and ditching the whole idea.
Nah, it's a fun toy that might be a bit better at some things, but it probably doesn't pay to pull it apart too much. If it just possibly saves some cash too then lovely, but if not, I have to be realistic and say I just like the novelty of the thing.
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Wouldn't mind trying one myself. I imagine a long journey would be a bit of an adventure. The excitement of not quite knowing if you are going to make it.
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>> The excitement of not quite knowing if you are going to make it.
Just like my old Morris Minor then.
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Cambridge scientists have invented a car battery that can take you from London to Edinburgh in a single charge ...
In ten years time: www.rt.com/uk/320485-electric-car-battery-cambridge/
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Update
Chargemaster hoops to get your "free" charging point.
Initial email from them asked for photos and couple of odd bits of info, all of which took me three days to find the time to gather, assemble, and mail back.
Half an hour later another email with another five page set of questions, so spoke to them. Couldn't have been more friendly and helpful, so far.
During this conversation, we established that:
They need to send out someone to do a site survey (good idea) as it's not a typical layout
That my actual electrical install, as far as they can see from the photo, is just fine (it was updated/sorted in 2008)
That if the cable run has to go more than 20 metres, it gets charged at about a fiver a meter
That if I want it to run through the house, as I would have preferred, then it will be done with trunking at skirting board level - they don't do floor lifting or similar. That distance however, is about 20 metres so will be free(ish)
That if they take it outside and pin it to the wall (as they clearly prefer and would be one heck of a lot easier) then it will be somewhat expensive, as that's about 80 metres.
That if I want an uprated charger (30 amp) that the Zoe can use I need to pay an extra £95. Or I can have a free 16 amp one, but suffer charging times that are twice as long. Not immediately obvious which choice I will make there, on a home charger.
Or I could drop the whole idea and stick with the slowest charging method of all, which just is a three pin plug.
So, survey next and you'll all be on the edge of your seats, no doubt, to hear the results of that.
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Late to this, just back from a cruise...
There was (maybe still is) a govt initiative to install charging points free for home users. I know, cos I got one - might have been Chargemaster who did it, can't remember, but I'd filled in a web form to get some further info, and within 30 minutes someone called me to fill in the gaps in my knowledge and booked the appointment to fit it within about 4 hours. the cable was run from my consumer unit under the stairs into the garage. All totally FoC.
Not used it yet as I have no ev car but there's a chance I might at some point in the future.
Under Nissan's Care-EV not only is use of Ecotricity chargers free but they wiill also loan you an ICE car for up to two weeks a year to take your holidays. That's quite a realistic thing for them to offer but everyone knows an EV car is only good for local stuff. www.nissan.co.uk/content/dam/services/gb/brochure/Nissan_Care_EV_T_and_Cs.pdf
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Interesting that you can get a charging point for free.
I assumed you could only request one if you had (or ordered) an EV
Could be tempted to get one installed as I could see myself moving to a plug in at some point in the future. Quite like the Outlander PHEV
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>> Interesting that you can get a charging point for free.
>>
>> I assumed you could only request one if you had (or ordered) an EV
>>
>> Could be tempted to get one installed as I could see myself moving to a
>> plug in at some point in the future. Quite like the Outlander PHEV
>>
Are they not make/model specific or is it a 3 pin 13 amp style?
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it's not a standard 3 pin, and there is no standard yet between manufacturers. I'm not sure how many flavours there are - but my thinking was that if I happen to have got the wrong one then changing the socket end will be cheaper than installing the whole thing (with cabling).
I also am prepared in case any visitors come with an EV...
However it looks like the free scheme is over and it will cost about £200.
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Oh, don't start me on cabling and sockets. I've been scratching my head over that for weeks and I'm not sure I'm certain about it all yet, but in brief, for a home charger, you can get them tethered or non tethered as you wish.
Out and about it's a different story, with multiple socket types and cable ends that might charge at multiple rates, unless you have this car or that type of charging post, in which case you have to make sure you have that model of car because this one can only charge at half the rate of that one unless the post is designed to charge fast, also known as quick and/or rapid unless it's known as standard or perhaps something else which doesn't match what your car manufacturer calls the same thing and anyway are you wanting AC or DC sir because after all this car takes one and not the other unless it has an optional bit added that can take both but now it can only charge at half the rate of an identical looking one next to yours and so on and on and ON. All very interesting I'm sure.
Meanwhile, back at home - tethered, the cable is attached to the charger, and the other end fits your car. If you change EV you hope that it has the same socket, and at present there are two or three possible variants, so it's not certain and might change in future anyway.
Untethered, you have a fairly standard socket at the charger and then use the cable that comes with the car. That should cover most EVs.
The disadvantage of non tethered (apparently) is getting your cable out of the boot every single time, perhaps getting it wet, then having to coil it all up and stuff it back in a titchy bag, or worse, forget and find you've left it at home when you need it.mThe alternative sounds better to me - drive to your charger, plug in as if it were your own petrol pump.
Haven't decided yet.
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Have you ever considered getting an orson cart Cc, and using the V60 for longer trots?
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If ten percent of the '...could cause...' sensation stories in the Mail and the Telegraph came even halfway true, we'd all be dead.
Presumably this one is from the same paper that's been busy telling us that electric cars will never catch on because they don't have the range to be useful.
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>> www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/green-cars/rise-of-electric-cars-in-wake-of-vw-scandal-could-cause-uk-power-crunch/
>>
>> :o)
>>
""if you have 20,000 electric vehicles plugged into 50kW fast chargers, that's the output of an entire nuclear power station."
50KW? A domestic supply cable would melt...
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My domestic supply must have melted yesterday evening - smack bang in the middle of me doing turkey burgers (soft brown rolls + onion rings+ slice of pineapple+ lettuce) & McCain oven chips. Boy did I turn the air blue!!!
This occurred not once but three firkin times o'er the next hour AND I had my PC on standby.
Good ole windows 7 managed to restore the 6 windows/2 browsers each time.
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>> My domestic supply must have melted yesterday evening -
It must be all the milk float owners plugging in when they get home from work, forget and its a walk to work in the morning. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 12 Nov 15 at 08:26
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>>It must be all the milk float owners plugging in when they get home from work, forget and its a walk to work in the morning. :-)
Wotsit going to be like when it REALLY gets cold - it's 13° here in mid November and I haven't lit my new wood burner yet!!
Now where is the post from mad f about generators :)
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>>"if you have 20,000 electric vehicles plugged into 50kW fast chargers, that's the output of an entire nuclear power station."
But then they are all charged in 20 minutes - what to do for the other 23h 40m?
Home charging at 3-6kW is likely to happen overnight when grid demand is low.
Issues are perhaps more likely when there are 1,000,000 or more daily drivers of electric vehicles, requiring an extra 10GWh of electricity from the grid (say 0.33kWh per mile, and 30 miles per day average). Total daily electricy output in the UK is around 700-750GWh per day, so it's not a huge slice.
Of course that 10GWh is instead of ICE vehicles burning 1,000,000 gallons of fuel assuming 30mpg (which contains about 36GWh of chemical energy so could just shove the petrol straight into a power station and make the 10GWh of electricty that goes into the EVs...)
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Tiny update
Charge master survey done
Nice man from Chargemaster (in a Polar network liveried van, don't ask me who owns who these days, it's changing every two minutes) turned up for the charging point install survey.
Went through all the options and potential hiccups, agreed a route I'd chosen, was a bit worried about not having a sufficient gprs signal (without which the whole thing is off) but got one of all of 28% on his gadget at the end and signed that off.
Spent most of his time making sure I understood the difference between trunked and not trunked and what it would look like to make sure I was happy rather than any real technical issues, which I appreciated.
So all clear on that, now just have to wait for them to set up the actual install, where a burly engineer from somewhere else will no doubt say it's all impossible after all, but we will see.
Only minor issue was that of my three suggested placements, my preferred one wasn't possible due to distance, but I can live with choice two, even though there was a bit of tooth sucking about the distance (about 30 metres) even for that.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Wed 18 Nov 15 at 10:12
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Was at a set of traffic lights the other day and a Renault Zoe was in front of me.
When the lights changed it took off like a rocket. Seemingly superb acceleration. Don''t know what the official figures are but it was seriously quick.
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Maximum torque from zero RPM (like steam) means no winding up the engine and instantaneous shove.
Acceleration fades as the engine speeds up though (hence 11 seconds to 60 similar to other 100hp cars), but 0-30 for a e-Golf (nominally 110hp or so) is faster than the 220hp Golf GTi.
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Wel, kinda. If you look at the 0 to 60 it's pretty sluggish at about 11 seconds. But the 0 to 40 is nippy as you like, which after all is I guess what you want in city driving for zipping into gaps at roundabouts and so on.
And it's really a city car, albeit one that some people have taken on journeys of ludicrous distances largely because they can. With lots of stops.
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>> Seemingly superb acceleration. Don''t know what the official figures are but it was seriously quick.
>>
But how many times before it is as fast as a knackered glow worm?
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As many times as you can get in before the battery degrades to point where it gets replaced under the permanent warranty that Renault offer as a by product of paying a lease for the battery.
So basically, as long as it's on the road for.
If however, you picked another EV model then you'd just have to make do with the five, eight or ten year battery warranty instead, or if after a decade it did actually go bang you'd have to fork out a couple of grand to recondition it I suppose. But thems the breaks.
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>> As many times as you can get in before the battery......
Goes flat. :-)
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>> Don't upset the jobsworths!
Upset the carphounds? They love being upset like that. An opportunity to exercise the true métier of being a PITA to all and sundry.
I agree that that silly little fence needs to be put on a hinge and turned into a gate. Either that or ripped out of the ground and hurled into the middle of the road for collection.
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That's interesting ta - a new wrinkle on the "but it's all so blinking complex and it's all supposed to be so simple" world that is EVs, as I have found, and am still finding new stuff daily.
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Was watching an old episode of Wheeler's Deals or whatever it's called last night, taking the head off an old Spitfire. Got me thinking just how old fashioned the internal combustion engine now is. All mechanical linkages and processes, sparks, combustion, oil and grime.
In the 21st Century of electronics and computers (whether we like it or not) isn't the ICE starting to look like a dinosaur? Electric cars are the future, and the future is almost here!
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Don't electric motors predate the internal combustion engine by a considerable number of years?
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Let me know when there is a viable portable power source that matches the simplicity and power of an electric motor.
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>> In the 21st Century of electronics and computers (whether we like it or not) isn't
>> the ICE starting to look like a dinosaur?
not sure dinosaurs had more computing power than the space shuttle, unlike the modern ICE.
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I'm not beating the drum for electric, I'm really not. There's nothing more boring than a spot of proselytizing, and anyway I still have to be convinced myself. Have a journey in the Volvo planned this pm and looking forward to it, it's so nice to drive on the open road.
But anyway, here is an article about the next five years of the EV industry (little bit of a read) that whilst undoubtedly full of propaganda, and of course biased, has I think some interesting points.
medium.com/@Fastned/the-autowende-has-begun-e7c13a4c0e89
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Re my other thread re a new car for my dad, electric would fit the bill for him 90% of the time (and of course also be auto).
Had a look at the Zoe costings again and although some of the figures do add up, battery rental is something like £60 a month, before you charge them, and that is probably somewhere around what he is spending on diesel just now.
And I know the costs are all part of the overall package but comparing the costs of the "fuel" only don't win the argument for him.
And of course its no use for when he decides to go a longer journey (either pre planned or spontaneous).
I did suggest he keeps his Picasso for longer journeys but also gets electric for day to day stuff! Some of the Jazz's on offer seem to be hybrids but interestingly they don't seem to sell these anymore which doesn't fill me with confidence!
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Hybrids are a con, the hybrid Yaris costs more, has poorer performance, is slower, and is less fuel efficient than my diesel Yaris.
EDIT - It also costs more to service.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 26 Nov 15 at 10:31
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To be fair, ON, that's a little bit bananas and pineapples. Hybrid Yaris is a petrol car, not a diesel. Compare it with the petrol Yaris and it's more economical, no idea about the other factors.
Of course if you bought a hybrid Yaris on the assumption it would be better on all those counts than the diesel version, then you would either have been misinformed or guilty of insufficient research.
I suspect many buy a hybrid on a perceived pollution basis, and the perceived order of cleanliness is likely to be electric, petrol, then nasty old diesel at the bottom, whatever the reality might actually be.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Thu 26 Nov 15 at 10:42
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People who buy cars to be environmentally pure as the driven snow should travel outside Europe. Most of the rest of the world does not give a stuff. The UK contributes about 2% to the world's pollution output, we are not going to save the world even if we shut down the country completely.
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Bit specious, wilfully distorted and defeatist that, ON old chap. Other than that it's fine.
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Between now and Christmas I will be on four long haul flights, the fuel used will be measured in tons. Whatever car I choose to drive makes no difference in the grand scale except to my wallet.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 26 Nov 15 at 11:15
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Well, you're entitled to that view. I said myself I'm not very excited by greenery, and for my own convenience don't bother with things like CFLs everywhere.
But I do think that whilst it's a tiny contribution, something is better than nothing, and if that something gets popular (who knows) then it becomes a bigger something, until it makes a real contribution.
All that is obvious stuff though, like the way that renewables in the UK energy supply moved from "laughing stock" in the nineties to "ridiculous" in the early 2000s to "not much use" five years after that to "well, ok, about 25% contribution and a bit more than coal" now to a predicted "lots more" in the next few years.
Longest journey, smallest step, yada yada.
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The UK contributes about 2% to the world's pollution output,
Directly perhaps but what about all the stuff we buy that is manufactured in other countries?
China is beginning to see the consequences of rampant pollution and as it moves to a more service based economy will follow the lead of the West. Someone has to go first.
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Does anyone believe that anything other than hot air will be achieved at the UN climate change summit? Obama, Cameron, and the other leaders will certainly burn a good few tons of jet fuel between them and probably not contribute any more to the reduction of climate change than the last 20 or so summits have.
Motoring link.
news.sky.com/story/1595908/eco-rally-hydro-and-electric-cars-do-battle
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ON,
IIRC you don't accept the science behind climate change so your attitude is unsurprising. The vast majority of the qualified and eminent scientists in the field do. The leaders of the sceptic movement are, almost to a man, non-scientists.
As one who accepts the science I'm not optimistic of world shaking change. Less so having heard India's industry minister speak about his nation's coal power station building. Progress will be made though.
And the inevitable claims about jet fuel are nonesense. Nothing will be acheived without the side conversations and face to face contact of a proper meeting. And the fuel is a drop in the ocean compared to a weekend's stag party flights to Prague etc.
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What happens to the scientists funding / income / reputation / if they don't toe the party line?
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 28 Nov 15 at 08:34
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>> What happens to the scientists funding / income / reputation / if they don't toe
>> the party line?
You really think that, if the anti science was in any way sustainable, Big Oil and rich Americans couldn't come up with the funding? Peer review OTOH.......
Change denial is close to where lead in petrol denial was thirty or so years ago.
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>> ON,
>>
>> IIRC you don't accept the science behind climate change
You can accept the science behind climate change, you can also accept that the conference will achieve nothing.
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>> You can accept the science behind climate change, you can also accept that the conference
>> will achieve nothing.
Of course. Being sceptical about governments achieving anything is another of ON's standpoints.
But it's not where he's starting from this time.
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>> Of course. Being sceptical about governments achieving anything is another of ON's standpoints.
All global governments agreeing anything is not being sceptical, its a fact of life.
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>> ..... the fuel is a drop in the ocean compared to a weekend's stag party flights to Prague etc.
But the whole premise of the climate changers argument is that all 'the drops in the ocean' added together are what is causing climate change!
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Except when third world countries are pledged to increase electricity output by employing huge number of new coal powered generating plant.
Their argument is the we created it (climate change) in the first place. So why should they be held back because of it.
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I am not a climate change denier, no doubt it will get hotter followed by another ice age. A few humans or even all of them are not going to make much difference in the long run. What I object to is politicians using as an excuse to raise taxes, while jetting around the world on jollies, and the environmental extremists who think they are going to change anything. Humans are a passing phase just like the dinosaurs.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 29 Nov 15 at 12:09
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Dinosaurs were hardly "a passing phase" having lasted 135 million years and are arguably still with us in the form of birds.
Dinosaurs however did not add an additional 35 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide to the atmosphere every year.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sun 29 Nov 15 at 19:09
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>> Dinosaurs were hardly "a passing phase" having lasted 135 million years and are arguably still
>> with us in the form of birds.
>>
>> Dinosaurs however did not add an additional 35 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide to the
>> atmosphere every year.
Attracted blee din meteorites tho didn't they. Good job they died out we would have been battered to death by now. Even Bruce Willis couldn't have saved us.
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Even Bruce Willis couldn't have saved us.
>>
And no Lembit around to keep us aware of the incipient danger
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I concede that humans will not last as long as the dinasours and it will undoubtedly be because of us screwing up, an asteroid hit , or a major geophysical event causing flood, fire, and / or starvation.
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Or the Turks bringing down another Russian bomber.
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>> Dinosaurs however did not add an additional 35 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide to the
>> atmosphere every year.
But what about methane, a worse "greenhouse gas"? Were dinos they like the Queen then? i.e. sie haben nicht gefurzt? ;-)
All the CO2 must have been in the atmosphere at one time in order that it got absorbed by the trees which were then tuned in to coal and oil which is now being returned to the atmosphere and will be reabsorbed by trees and so on and so on.
The planet goes on.
I don't see the problem, apart from a few local difficulties for humans living near coasts, which can be dealt with easily enough.
I don't think Kevin Costner's vision of Waterworld is going to happen.
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>> The planet goes on.
Hondootedly. And life. Maybe not yuman life. There were no peeps when all that CO2 was in the atmosphere.
Of course, yumans are a blight, looked at objectively; other large animals are all but extinct, other than the domesticated ones.
Yumans might well self-destruct regardless in less time than it has taken them to evolve to this point - population, wars, and backwards evolution (another topic).
I don't suppose the Mice are at all concerned about us, it's just an experimental result.
What was this thread about? Oh yeah, electric cars. A minnow's fart in the Atlantic.
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One thing I can say with absolute certainty. My typing stinks.
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The planet goes on of course it does with or without us.
There is a problem do,the coast around here is disappearing very quick.It is not being dealt with.So is climate change a hoax and the scientist are telling us porkies?
Maybe we are just like lemmings we want to swim.
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What about the methane?
I would hazard a guess that the output of methane by land animals is roughly the same as it always was so it balances out.
Of course the C02 released by fossil fuels was once locked up in trees etc. Unfortunately we have decided to release several hundred million years worth in just 150 years.
Of course life will go on but we are putting our own survival in doubt. A 4 degree rise in average temperature would be fairly catastrophic for the human race in terms of desertification, starvation wars and mass migrations on a scale that would make our present difficulties look puny.
Rising sea levels would be more than a local difficulty. Just look at a map and see how many of the world's great cities are on or near the coast.
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'The planet drifts to random insect doom...' (William Burroughs, 'The Naked Lunch')
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The world is saved ! Both charging bays at the local station were occupied by Mitsubishi PHEVs which were plugged in. The first time I have seen them in use let alone both at the same time.
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>> The world is saved ! Both charging bays at the local station were occupied by
>> Mitsubishi PHEVs which were plugged in. The first time I have seen them in use
>> let alone both at the same time.
You can buy stick on model labels and fake charging leads on ebay.
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One was stickered up by the local dealer, maybe it was planted as an advert. :-)
I think this is the way things are going.
www.autoexpress.co.uk/audi/a7/93409/audi-on-the-brink-of-showing-a-fuel-cell-vehicle
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 30 Nov 15 at 16:37
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Missed the edit.
Batteries were only short term fix until fuel cells and the hydrogen fuel infrastructure become viable
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Remember the 1974 Enfield 8000 electric car? Here's an 'upgraded' one.
Robert Llewelyn of Red Dwarf and Scrapyard Challenge fame has been doing a serier on electric cars for a couple of years - here's the latest episode...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6VJ6_4yCkw
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Whilst I twiddle my thumbs waiting for my lowly Renault Zoe, I see Porsche have confirmed the "Mission E" is going into production.
So this is on the horizon, if you count "by the end of the decade" as a horizon I suppose.
Quote:
Porsche claims a 0-62mph time of less than 3.5 seconds, along with a range of more than 310 miles from a single charge.
Not only that, but thanks to a new 800-volt charging system (twice as powerful as today’s quick-chargers), its lithium-ion batteries can receive an 80 per cent boost in just 15 minutes. Alternatively, the Mission E can be charged wirelessly by induction if you have a system installed into a garage floor.
Endquote
www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/porsche/news/mission-e/
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www.chargemasterplc.com/blog/cat/news/post/tesla/
All you have to do is charge your EV in at Polar charge points 10 times.
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So, the nice man came out last week to fit the charger at my house. This the "free" charger that Renault provide as part of the car price.
Whilst he did the job extremely well, and made it all neater than I had imagined it would be, it was a bit annoying that I'd already had a pre-install survey, for which I'd had to take time off, covering the planned cabling route and so on. However, on the day, none of that information had been passed along, so he wasted a lot of time doing all that again. And it was apparent if he had known that info then two people would have been worthwhile - I spent a lot of time "helping" by holding ladders, pulling cables through holes, passing screwdrivers up through loft hatches etc. For which he was grateful - but if I hadn't, he'd still be there now.
End result was a seven hour non-stop job (!), finishing in the pitch dark. As the length of cable used was "in excess of the standard length, sir", at 31 metres, I had to top up £55, but that was all I had to pay in the end.
Charging at home should take about three hours if totally empty (mostly it won't be of course) and a cost of a full charge on my tariff (10.7p per Kwh inc VAT) is about £2.40, for which I will get roughly 90-115 miles, mostly depending on temperature. That will reduce my commuting costs considerably. Stick it on charge when I get home from work, sorted.
So, progress. No delivery date on car yet other than "might be in the country at the end of January".
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Thanks for the update: followed with interest.
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>> That will reduce my commuting costs considerably. Stick it on charge when I get home from work, sorted.
And reduce it further by topping it up at work ;-)
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Work are "considering" putting a charge point in, and the finance people say it would be ok from a tax point of view if it was provided to me free, as for tax purposes electricity isn't a fuel ("trivial benefit" or some such jargon, what do I know?). So have to see.
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Just to let anyone faintly interested know that the Zoe, yet to be named, arrived very early this morning. I'll probably start a new thread at some point though as this one has got unwieldy.
So there we are.
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>> the Zoe, yet to be named
I have a nice clever little blonde niece-in-law, sort of, called Zoë. I call her Zozo and she doesn't seem to mind.
She is much of an age with my blonde granddaughter Mib (full name Mirabel). They are a deadly combination even at 13, with nice little noses. Dead or paralysed boys strewn in their wake.
Sorry for the lurid thread drift Crankcase. I quite fancy a Renault Zozo myself and look forward to hearing about its practical limitations if any, and how to cope with them.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sat 30 Jan 16 at 15:11
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>> Just to let anyone faintly interested know that the Zoe, yet to be named, arrived
>> very early this morning. I'll probably start a new thread at some point though as
>> this one has got unwieldy.
>>
>> So there we are.
Soooooo - A naming thread, heavy on the electrickery genre.
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Assuming Zoe is a girl:
Ann (ode
Cath (ode)
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Still waiting for it to charge up? Should be able to go for a bit of a run tomorrow, ( so long as you don't go too far ! )
;-)
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>> Assuming Zoe is a girl
It might be ohmosexual. Call it Gay.
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I presume that when it goes in for a service you'll get a courtesy car from Hertz?
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Bingo, it has to be called Joules
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Mirabel - what a lovely name (AC's granddaughter, above).
If the Zoe is one of those cars that is forever ringing and pinging warnings at you, MiraBELL might be just the name you need.
Good luck with it.
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you'll get a courtesy car from Hertz?
It'll only do 50.....
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60 if it's American spec.
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New electric car bought - Armel Coussine
