Older Berlingo's steering still not right:
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?f=1&t=20786
Strut bearing replaced on Tuesday. Slight difference perhaps but not cured underlying heaviness. Further trip to main dealer produced no clear diagnosis beyond a list of parts that might be cause.
Got quotes to replace (a) Universal joint referenced in thread above (b) pump and (c) rack. The latter two are way beyond anything I'd consider spending. The UJ comes in at £137 fitted and seems worth a punt. If not then it's get shot time. Which of course raises question of what to replace it with?
Main use is is my 14 mile round trip to work three times a week plus other domestic stuff in a radius as far as Leicester - 35 miles each way. Add in ferrying son to and from Uni and possible trips to daughter just over the Tamar from Devonport and I can easily see 10k miles a year. A small car, say Fiesta or Panda, would do 80% of the tasks. The other 20% involves load lugging where having a second larger car, particularly one son or daughter are insured on, is quite useful. Thinking something like a Fiat Qubo or Peugeot Bipper Teepee might fit the bill. Alternatively a conventional estate such as a Focus.
So first question is what realistic saving is their in downsizing? Obvs purchase cost but I suspect not a lot for fuel, insurance and other running costs. Last smaller car I had was a 205D. Insurance, fuel and repair costs were identical to the bigger BX. Not really surprising as they both had same engine albeit in differing capacities. What does the panel think?
Second is what to buy. The upright driving position of the van derived jobbies suits us as to sliding doors. Mrs B struggles with several conventional cars we've driven/hired because short legs put her uncomfortably, and in an air bag scenario dangerously, close to wheel. Focus or similar would need to pass that test. Also needs to be low enough to ground for my Mother, who shuffles with a frame, to get in - the current Berlingo fails on this test.
Going to be s/h, budget £5-£8k and expect to run it into ground. An outrageously good deal on new might turn my head though.
Debate open to the floor,,,,,,
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I often seem to end up with Pandas as renters. I love them. Great wee cars. Like eager little terriers to drive. If that makes any sense.
Never driven a Qubo but a guy I know has one as he needs a van for work and a car for kids. He's very taken with it.
I know you have another Berlingo for shed tugging duties but I guess you'd struggle to pull one with a smaller vehicle if required. But that may not be an issue given that you have got another suitable car.
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... saving ... in downsizing? Obvs purchase cost...[less for] running costs....
I suspect it's likely to be the other way round. Small cars tend to fetch disproportionately high secondhand prices for what you get, partly because they're perceived to be cheap to run - and partly because a surprising number of drivers can't cope with anything bigger. You're not in the latter category so bigger is likely to be better value.
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Well, as I've no doubt said ad nauseam, while I don't mind dashing about in a small renter for a day or two, when it comes to a long term car I'd rather have something which copes with most people/load eventualities rather than something which was compromised by being too small.
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The Honda Jazz seems to tick all the boxes, although you'd have to check that Mrs B would be comfortable in it. It's lower than the Berlingo but the tall doors should make it easier for your mum to get in and out.
There's just been a new model, so there could be good deals on nearly-new old shape Jazzes.
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Had a quick look at dealerships in town yesterday.
The Fiat Dealer has loads of Pandas but the very small boot is a big negative. Didn't take one with me to check but didn't seem big enough for a Brompton.
There was one Qubo on a 10 plate for £5k. Convinced me that the model is worth pursuing but not that example. Four ditchfinder tyres on manky steel wheels . Prefer steels but the rust/dirt visible under the naff plastic trims was unsightly and suggested lack of care and poor pre forecourt pre . Nearside sliding door wouldn't latch open and there looked to be rust on the o/s cill spreading from an area where it had been 'dinged'. Salesman was OK, not smarmy or anything, but very young and not that knowledgeable about the Qubo.
The Peugeot place was much better. Salesman about my age who engaged with my needs and was knew all about his range and models. No Bipper in stock or in his companies wider network. Took my name and number and will call me during week or when anything comes in.
Finally, I dropped into Ford's place. Again a mature and helpful salesman who let me wonder between Fiestas, Focusses and a brace of B-Max. Fiesta is an order of magnitude larger that Panda (not surprising the small Ford is the Ka) and I'm struggling to tell the market separation between it and the Focus.
B Max is nice but pricey.
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I'd go bigger. You tend to get better value (more car for the same money)
I slightly regret the CT. I really wanted an IS but convinced myself I could live with the smaller CT, and for a lot of journeys its fine but today, having the kids with me, its shortcomings become apparent.
I'm pretty sure you would find that there are times you wish you had something bigger, but not as many where you want smaller
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Thinking about it the hateful Fiat 500L I mentioned in another thread might be worth a visit. Has a slightly van like driving position and a decent size boot.
I didn't like it, but that's not to say someone else might!
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>> I slightly regret the CT. I really wanted an IS
I know I fall too easily into abbreviations but can you decode CT and IS for me?
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The Lexus CT is smaller than the Lexus IS. Maybe that is what he means.
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>> The Lexus CT is smaller than the Lexus IS. Maybe that is what he means.
That would make sense. Lexus not on my radar.
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>> Skoda Roomster?
On my list. The local dealer has an 11 reg 90PS diesel with rather more miles than the average private buyer might like for a good price. Working 09:00 to 19:00 tomorrow but hope to take a look on Tuesday.
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The HJ review of the Qubo is pretty discouraging.
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But not nearly as discouraging as his review of the Skoda Yeti.
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>> Dacia Logan MCV.
Not a bad shout AV, but the main problem with those is school reunions.
"Yeah I've been retired now for a year or so"
"Great stuff, good pension and so on?"
"Not bad really, enough to do a few things we'd always planned to"
"Sounds good, I remember you were always into cars like me weren't you? What are you driving now, something sporty I guess now the kids are up and away?"
"Erm, a Dacia Logan MCV actually."
"A what?"
"Dacia"
"WTF is one of those then?"...
;-)
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Ah, the old obsessions with social embarrassment and status anxiety, eh Runfer? Badges, schmadges.
I don't willingly mix with the type of people given to that sort of nonsense, so I can't say it overly bothers me what other people make of my financial decisions. In fact I'd take a perverted pleasure in misleading someone given to snobbery that my car said something about my financial well being, and I dare say Brompterooney is the sort of person on my page in that regard. After all, he's been driving Berlingos for years. I'd probably get a Logan MCV myself if they were available as autos.
There's not much I enjoy more than parking my old shed of a car amongst the Lambos and Range Rovers and Cayennes at my nippers' school. Especially the white ones. Their little faces when they think I might scratch them. Obviously loaded up on debt in an effort to appear wealthy and couldn't afford to fix it (and if the state of most of their tyres is anything to go by it's certainly a case of fur coat no knickers for most of them).
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I never cease to be amazed at how much poorer some people are prepared to make themselves in order to appear richer.
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Ah, only kidding, ( unless that wasn't clear ! ) I'd happily take a diesel Duster with bike racks on the roof and a year off to explore the world.
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>> Ah, only kidding, ( unless that wasn't clear ! ) I'd happily take a diesel
>> Duster with bike racks on the roof and a year off to explore the world.
You don't sound like the school reunion type either? I'm not.
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>> You don't sound like the school reunion type either? I'm not.
I really dont want to meet the wallys, twonks and pillocks I went to school with again, I'm sure they think the same about me, and who wants to be reminded of your past mistakes and peccadillos anyway!
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>> I really dont want to meet the wallys, twonks and pillocks I went to school
>> with again,
True - and I was thinking of who might turn up. Mostly girls (it was a co-ed), last seen when nubile, now 62 and now probably stately as galleons. Who wants to have those memories spoiled, and to be reminded of his own decrepitude?
Last edited by: Manatee on Mon 23 Nov 15 at 16:02
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'S funny, in my mid 40s and my closest friends are lads I went to school with. Still in touch with a wide circle of them, we were a very close bunch and some of us remain so.
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>> 'S funny, in my mid 40s and my closest friends are lads I went to
>> school with. Still in touch with a wide circle of them, we were a very
>> close bunch and some of us remain so.
My unc., mum's brother, went to his last grammar school old boys' dinner last year when he was 84 - he's running out of contemporaries! Hardly missed one in 60 odd years.
Where were we? Oh yes, Dacia Logans. Wouldn't bother me. If I went at all, I'd go in the Roomie, and park it prominently. It would be bad form to lord it in the Aston.
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Yes, sorry Runfer, didn't notice your winky. Is that a problem you get much?
;-)
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More so in recent years I'm afraid...
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I blame the mountain biking.
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You may well have a point there. It was cold enough on the bike this weekend to dismay the most robust of brass monkeys.
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Great unloved Roomster !! Still being made, get a petrol. You could use the back as a pop up CAB outreach. I sort of miss mine occasionally...
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I think they might just have stopped Roomie production. Rumour is the new one will be a re-badged Caddy. The floorpan was never going to survive - front of a Fabia/Polo, back of a Golf/Octavia.
The British market has never liked funny looking cars unless they were cute.
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>> Great unloved Roomster !! Still being made, get a petrol. You could use the back
>> as a pop up CAB outreach. I sort of miss mine occasionally...
Off to look at a Roomie this afternoon, highish mileage diesel though. I've had diesels since 1992 and prefer them for their torque and in gear flex. Mrs B's lingo is diesel and there's something to be said for 'fleet commonality' and lower chance of inadvertent miss-fueling.
Is there any particular reason you suggest petrol for this model (other than the VAG farrago of course). ?
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...inadvertent miss-fueling...
Is that when the fuel goes in the wrong car?
};---)
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Tue 24 Nov 15 at 09:52
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It's when the fuel decision challenged don't have one of these. :-)
www.misfuellingprevention.co.uk
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>> You may well have a point there.
Unlike your good self?
;-)
(You set 'em up, I'll stick 'em in the net.)
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A 2013 Logan for £6,495 - a bargain?
For another £500 you could get a new basic Logan, for another £1,000 a new Ambiance (if that's really how they spell it) which is the same trim level as the one in the link.
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Wonder what the ambience is ?
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Turkish wrestlers support garment?
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>> A 2013 Logan for £6,495 - a bargain?
>>
>> For another £500 you could get a new basic Logan, for another £1,000 a new
>> Ambiance (if that's really how they spell it) which is the same trim level as
>> the one in the link.
>>
I wouldn't want a basic basic one, but fair enough point on the new Ambiance. Can't quite get over how cheap these are in general.
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The Citroen main dealer here also holds a Renault/Dacia franchise. Quite like the price of the Logan or even the Duster. Still a little wary of reported quality issues albeit these were on early models. As a conventional estate its driving position might also fail the Mrs B test - can be uncomfortably close to wheel on account of short legs.
The C3 Picasso is another possibility - lots on Richard Sanders' forecourt.
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>>The C3 Picasso is another possibility - lots on Richard Sanders' forecourt.
Don't buy one with the 1.4 or 1.6 16V Hdi engine.....!
Surely another 'Lingo is called for? You need to avoid the pre 2011 1.6 HDi engine, which probably means the last of the 2.0Hdi - at under your budget probably?
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>> Surely another 'Lingo is called for? Y
For all that's probably tongue in cheek it's a possibility I'd considered. Mrs B thinks it's just too big as a second car and on a practical level we cannot get my Mother (90) into one.
Problem is that she has limited mobility due to a previous fall/hip fracture and badly arthritic knees. Surgery is too risky given her cardiac history so not getting any better.
She's under five feet and short in the leg. Can get around with a frame but is terrified of another fall so very, very cautious when doing so. She gets into a car by shuffling backwards until she can lower her bum onto the seat then swing round knees together - the sort of style taught to ladies of her generation to avoid showing their knickers while getting in a sports car.
Both front and rear seats in the 'lingo are too high and too far in from the door 'cill for this technique to work or at least not without fear of a tumble being invoked.
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A friend currently has a Peugeot 2008 on hire for a couple of weeks while he awaits delivery of a new car.
It's a 1.4 diesel I think and he says it's remarkably pleasant to potter about in ( he's used to bigger more powerful cars ) Seems lower slung than most SUV / MPV type vehicles but a bit more sitty uppy than a conventional estate.
No idea about costs etc but maybe worth a look.
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" very cautious when doing so. She gets into a car by shuffling backwards"
The Mk1 Focus hatch and estate were an ideal height for this. SWMBO's late uncle had severely restricted movement, using a walking frame, but he could shuffle in and out of a Focus when he couldn't manage our Scenic. 3 door hatch easiest to manage due to the longer door compared to 5 door hatch and estate.
A Focus-sized estate would be a good load-lugging backup to a Lingo too...
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Been out or a couple of test drives this afternoon. First was a Roomster:
tinyurl.com/oupr4gr
Quite impressed. Not apparent from the pics but it has a full length glass roof which made whole care very light and airy. Lot of storage, multiple 12v terminals around car and once seat height sorted a good view out, though the expanse of grey plastic betwixt dash and windscreen didn't appeal. Lovely to drive in a trad diesel low down torque, nice creep rate low gear/feet off everything sort of way. Offered with 2yrs warranty albeit excluding DPF. Mileage might deter others but doesn't bother me unduly.
Second up was a C3 Piccasso:
tinyurl.com/otpqwxh (looked first at tinyurl.com/qdn7ceq but it turned out to be sold and wrongly labelled as a Diesel).
A joy to drive and being top of range had all toys - cruise, climate, auto lights and wipers etc. Maybe a bit too much to go wrong? Same engine as Mrs B's Berlingo but mapped/tuned to 90PS instead of 115. Flexible interior layout with fold flat but no removeable seats Felt a bit dark inside but could live with.
Offer on my'lingo is around £600 either way. Cost to change around £5k to £5300.
Any observations?
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Skoda for me. Properly made and a 2 year warranty. Smart looking in black. I loved mine, it was quick enough as well.
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>> Skoda for me.
I'm thinking that way too for all it's a break with 25yrs of PSA products.
Your post upthread pointed me to the petrol. any particular reason?
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Mine was 105 bhp PDI engine. It was gruff but solid. I was just wary of the current VW scandal that's all. This one shouldn't be affected.
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>> I was just wary of the current VW scandal that's all.
Thanks. Mentioned that to salesman who obviously recognised issue and gave me VIN number to use the available checkers. Might give some negotiating leverage.
In reality I'm looking at a car I'll hang onto until 2020 and/or 150k+ miles so, like Enrico, down to residuals of hundreds of £ anyway.
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I suppose the Citroen is easier on the eye, but that obviously depends on who is doing the beholding I guess. I still have difficulty with the Roomster styling. Or total lack of it.
Something primitive in me tends to think the Skoda will stand the test of time better though. No science in that opinion of course, just a feeling that the screws will probably have been tightened better.
Might be nonsense of course. What do I know really?
:-)
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Tue 24 Nov 15 at 19:45
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2009 will be the 1.6 16V engine - which is a turbo eating ticking time bomb....! Don't buy it unless it has a full main dealer history, all services done on time with the proper oil. Even then, consider (no, do more than that!) getting the filter in the turbo oil feed pipe removed. This alone will save the turbo - but not necessarily the engine from sludging up. However, you will get warning of this, as it will rattle at cold start till the oil pressure comes up. They survive this (even down to the oil pressure light coming on - ours has done it twice) - but there is a solution to that too - remove the strainer in the oil pick up in the sump, then change the oil every 6k instead of 12. Which reminds me, our C4 is due an oil change again....
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>> 2009 will be the 1.6 16V engine
I was watching for that and the info sheet in the window clearly stated 1.6 Hdi 8 valve 90BHP.
Presumably the engine type numbers per V5 and under bonnet labels will differentiate authoritatively. ?
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Surely if another 'lingo is too big, wouldn't the same apply to a Roomie? They look about the same size to my eye. My brother rented a C3 Picasso a few years back and was impressed by it, but RichardW clearly knows his stuff re the turbo issues!
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>> Surely if another 'lingo is too big, wouldn't the same apply to a Roomie?
The current B9 second generation Berlingo is too big.
The 2005 M59 version I'm looking to replace is based on the Peugeot 306/Cit ZX floorpan and is more 'medium size', as is the Roomie.
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>> Roomie is quite narrow.
It didn't feel that way once inside. The current 'lingo OTOH is almost 7 feet across the door mirrors and can be a tight fit on supermarket car parks. It's also too wide for lane 3 through the everlasting roadworks M1/J16 to 19 though as somebody pointed out before you don't need to go through goalposts to get into the lane.
Off to look at both tomorrow with Mrs B. Should make decision by Saturday.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 25 Nov 15 at 08:13
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Why not have a stab at changing the pump yourself. Get a haynes manual and a pump from eurocarparts. Nothing to loose if it doesn't work.
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I, do it on mine (in fact I might have to because it has a leak) but then I have room in there for a party at the same time. Not every car is quite so easy.
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Decision made. Roomie wins.
It's potentially affected by the NOx dodging thing but no need to have it modded. Since I'm running it into ground I'm not too bothered about effect on residual.
It's a nicer car, two years newer, nearly a grand cheaper on cost to change and with two years warranty thrown in.
The Picasso, although labelled in sales literature as 8v, turned out to be a 16v engine which Richard W cautioned against.
The dealer experience will get a thread of it's own.........
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>> What about a Fiat Doblo?
Apart from fact I've now bought a Roomster it's as big as a current Berlingo and not really what I want.
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Welcome to the C4P popemobile club.
I like the SE more than our Scout actually, with the big glass roof which I think you said yours has. The boss though has taken against any sort of "sunroof", no idea why - the Roomie isn't short of headroom.
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I have some cargo net thingies specifically for the Roomie (sort of inbetween seats design) if you're interested Bromp. I'll stick them in the post if you send me a mail.
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>> I have some cargo net thingies specifically for the Roomie (sort of inbetween seats design)
>> if you're interested Bromp. I'll stick them in the post if you send me a
>> mail.
>>
You haven't got a N/S/R tail light for an '05' X Type est have you?
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Just had a look, offside only sorry.
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>> You haven't got a N/S/R tail light for an '05' X Type est have you..
Got to be a story there WP ! C'mon, spill !
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>> Got to be a story there WP ! C'mon, spill !
>>
Small star shaped crack at the bottom outside edge. 'Er indoors' denies all knowledge, I know it wasn't me... probable parking incident.
Trouble is 'Mr Car OCD' now knows it's there.... can I leave it be?
Common sense says leave it, there's no obvious moisture getting in, the car's fast approaching 11 years old, we will in the next 18 months buy something newer and use this one as the second car hack... so..
E-bay, that's the place to look, bound to be something on there...;-)
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Thanks Rob, that would be very useful. I'll drop you an email. Outgoing 'lingo had a dog guard in order to keep the luggage in the boot in any ti tzup senario.
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Just about to strip the berli of stuff like that. Do you reckon I'd get anything for it on ebay?
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I flogged the VW Touran dog guard on ebay for more than I paid for it - on ebay. Big stuff is hit and miss on the bay, depends on distance and pickup as carriage costs can be a pain.
And funnily enough, it ended up with some friends of ours a year or two later or paid what I paid for it at the beginning.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 28 Nov 15 at 10:47
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Mrs RP sold a dog guard for the V50 last week - been on the Bay of E for quite a while attracting silly offers, good price paid for it in the end - the biggest problem was packing the thing - has a slight curve, not helped by the fact that I had the worst case of man-flu known to man. Talking to a friend yesterday she mentioned that Argos now do a courier service at a fraction of other players' prices. Deliver from shop-to-shop.
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I'm such a dinosaur when it comes to stuff like that. I keep things because they might come in handy...
There are some ( some = quite a lot ) boxes of such items in my attic and my garage from our old house, never been opened since we moved here in, erm, in 2002...
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>> I'm such a dinosaur
You too? :-)
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Checking my loft thus afternoon ( it's still there) I came across a plastic box containing my old Minolta Dynax Si 500 and a pair of almost new Tamron AF 24/70 & 70/300 lenses.
I should get round to selling them on Ebay. I also found a brand new, still boxed, Classik TV stand, black metal & black glass, which I had completely forgotten about.
The hard part is motivating myself to sell them....
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>> I'm such a dinosaur when it comes to stuff like that. I keep things because
>> they might come in handy...
>>
Oh they do!
I've still got a plastic boot liner for the BX estate that I sold over 15 years ago. You never know, I might get another BX estate. One day. In the meantime it is used as a second layer of defence on the inside of a garage door, should a miscreant try to enter the garage without my permission.
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Picked up the Roomster (and left the 05 'lingo as a trade) in this morning.
Drove home via a run from 15 to 16 on the M1 and all seems good. Very different controls from everything I've owned since the first BX in 1989 though - if they were planes the PSA types would have had a common rating.
Feel like I've gone from Airbus to Boeing...
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...Mind the battery doesn't catch fire.
}:---)
Sounds like a good buy. Have fun with it.
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Time on my hands today. Found my old Berlingo on sale with a garage in Solihull!!
tinyurl.com/oyuls9k
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>> Time on my hands today. Found my old Berlingo on sale with a garage in
>> Solihull!!
>>
>> tinyurl.com/oyuls9k
>>
It looks tidy enough from the pics
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It's called a ' Desire'? Don't want to hurt your feelings, but you gotta be kidding? What rose tinted lunettes were Citroen thinking of?
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>> It's called a ' Desire'? Don't want to hurt your feelings, but you gotta be
>> kidding? What rose tinted lunettes were Citroen thinking of?
Trim level. Basic was Forte.
Desire added CD, seat back trays, 'modutop' roof with glass panels and two roof level stowage spaces - each with 12v socket, additional overhead stowage in boot and (IIRC) front foglights.
The sockets allowed phones, laptops, gamepads etc etc etc could be kept charged on long journeys or, being permanently live, overnight while camping.
Whatever you think of the marketing name the add-ons were a boon. It was actually better for internal stowage than the current Berlingo.
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Sounds like almost the perfect vehicle if you do a lot of car camping. Spacious load area too... Around 1800l with rear seats folded?
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>> Sounds like almost the perfect vehicle if you do a lot of car camping.
It was a brilliant family car for four of us from 2005 until 2013 (inc). In 05 the kids were 10 & 12. Its last family holiday trip was to Pyrenees 30 months ago when they were 18 and 20 and shared the driving.
No sports car but once doing 70 it was as fast as anything else and on narrow tyres it handled ice/snow just fine.
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>> It's called a ' Desire'? Don't want to hurt your feelings, but you gotta be
>> kidding? What rose tinted lunettes were Citroen thinking of?
>>
Ours is a 'Desire', and while it is a rather amusing name, for a Berligoista like me, some of the features are appealing enough that it actually is an object of desire!
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Has the selling dealer fixed the steering issue? The ad doesn't mention a steering fault.
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>> Has the selling dealer fixed the steering issue? The ad doesn't mention a steering fault.
>>
No way I can find out short of going over and posing as a buyer.
I told dealer I sold to why I was changing so not my problem.
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Didn't mean to infer it was your problem, just an interesting point. Maybe stu needs a Berlingo? ;-)
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Sorry A, didn't mean to sound defensive. I too wondered if the dealer had stumbled on solution that evaded the franchisee workshop.
It also had an intermittent cabin blower fan - worked if you whacked the fan housing in right place. I was treating it as a 'deferred defect' until either car was in workshop or I had time to sort it. That was probably straightforward to sort - loose connection or knacked bushes.
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Citroen Berlingo Multispace - Stick or Twist (Again) - Runfer D'Hills
