My dad (83 years old) is getting quite a bit of pain in his left ankle so is thinking of switching to automatic. His current car is a 57 plate Xsara Picasso 92bhp diesel.
previous cars were Peugeot 807, Renault Scenic, Peugeot 306s etc so a bit of a French theme there.
Budget is about £8k or thereabouts, with or without his car which is probably only worth c £1k on a trade in I would guess. Now only does 7000 miles a year and bar a couple of journeys to my brother down south, most of it will be around town driving.
So although he has had diesels for the last 20 years I have told him a modern diesel is a no-goer with that type of mileage. I have also warned him his fuel consumption will fall dramatically from the mid 50s he currently gets.
He wants Bluetooth, reversing sensors, cruise control as a must.
A quick search through Autotrader with above requisites is throwing up cars like Fiesta, B-Max, Ibizas Jazz and Citroen C3 Picasso. He does like the higher up driving position and with his age I feel that going down into a Fiesta or Ibiza might just be too small a car (not in reality but in feel).
Have seen a couple of the C3 Picassos , here is one (some of them have a horrible green colour)
www2.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201511048410172
although I think its quite ugly , my dad really likes the look of it and feels that he is keeping some of the versatility he has with his current Xsara ie folding rear seats etc etc (although in reality he never uses these).
Anyone any knowledge of these autos?
I feel the B-Max would be a step up in class and quality for him and it has the Powershift, have previously read various reports on these , not all good?
Are DSG / Powershift autos really that bad or is it just that some failures have branded them all with same problem?
(His last auto was a Cavalier 2.0GLI - G202UGG)
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From HJ on the auto C3
"those who need an automatic transmission are limited to the 120PS VTi petrol, but it's not a true automatic. Instead it's an automated manual, which is slow and jerky when changing gear and isn't as reliable as a traditional torque convertor or modern dual-clutch system. It will do the job if you absolutely need an auto, but it's not recommended if you're choosing an auto as a luxury"
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Wouldn't the Jazz be a safe bet?
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Could be
www2.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201510087610891
would definitely be taking him dramatically down in size for car compared to his Xsara Picasso - are the Honda automatics more reliable?
Certainly the EX spec seems to have the toys he needs, does the Jazz have the magic folding seats that the Civic has?
He occasionally likes to go runs in the car with a wee picnic which the Xsara is ideal for, these are the the sacrifices he will need to make!
On a side note, anyone on here got a Jazz? One of my colleagues a while ago got one and asked me to set up her Bluetooth and if i remember correctly it would only store a few numbers and you had to program them into the head unit as opposed to most systems that just sync the whole phonebook? Or was I just doing it totally wrong?
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Jazz has magic seats, auto is great. Very smooth..
Bluetooth? Dunno, don't try..
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>> Could be
>> www2.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201510087610891
>>
>> would definitely be taking him dramatically down in size for car compared to his Xsara
>> Picasso - are the Honda automatics more reliable?
Its not really that much of a downsize, similar footprint, and at 83 why does he need big anyway? Access in and out of the driving seat is the primary issue for an older driver.
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>> From HJ on the auto C3
>> "those who need an automatic transmission are limited to the 120PS VTi petrol, but it's
>> not a true automatic. Instead it's an automated manual, which is slow and jerky when
>> changing gear
I can vouch for that. My dad was given one as a courtesy car while his was in for accident repairs. Only way to ensure a smooth gear change was to use the paddle shift levers behind the steering wheel and manually change gear, and even then it still wasn't that smooth.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 24 Nov 15 at 10:41
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The Nissan Note petrol auto may be worth a butchers. Neighb has a year old jobbie, I've driven it a phew! times and it goes quite well (diesel manual tho) Hers is the latest model but I'd pre fur the previous one which teddy-my-love has.
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Yip could be, a quick glance says for the earlier models its £180 road tax but the newer models, which are 1.2's, are £20 !
I think he will realistically be looking at a 3 year old ex-motability car in all likelihood.
Most of which will now be out manufacturers warranty!
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There are specialist ex Motability dealers, they can source end of lease cars to order. The one near me does a brisk trade.
www.robertblackandson.co.uk
I used them several times without problems many years ago.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 24 Nov 15 at 10:42
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Cheers ON - they look a potential , have a nice Note on their list.
I have only ever bought one car from auction, for a pal, at the SMAG one in Livingston.
Was an ex motability 18 month old C-Max, got it for about £2k less than forecourt price, still had manufacturers warranty. Was an 05 plate and the pal still has it and has never had any issues whatsoever with it!
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Going to head up there ON at the weekend, after doing lots of research and speaking to my indie, it seems to be falling on either Jazz or Note for the autos.
My indie's answer to most questions is "a car from the VAG group" but when asked about autos he said to give them a bodysteer!
Older style Note's, the N-Tec+ seems to be a bit of a run out model with lots of toys. Less economical than the Jazz but can't have everything!
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Er.... sorry to be a tad negative.
I'm nor sure you'll want to hear this (or specifically your father won't)... but... I don't think it's a good idea at all for him to switch to an auto.
Every year there are a steady number of automatic car accidents where predominantly elderly people seem to get confused and freeze... and press the accelerator instead of the brake.
I don't know why it happens, but it does.... in enough numbers for it to be a known problem.
IMO someone not used to an auto, may well be more susceptible.
An opposite neighbour of my mother's did it... and went up my mother's drive at high speed, having bounced off the front wall of her house, leaving the downstairs loo open to the elements... and went right through her garage door demolishing everything inside, inc my Honda Blackbird that I'd put there for safekeeping whilst I packed things up in my London house to move to Devon.
Whilst at work, before I retired, I supervised one where a lady in Finchley killed her daughter... and ended up in next door's garden, still sat in her Mercedes, having literally driven over her daughter, who got trapped under the 'E' class as it went through the flower beds and next door's fence. I got there to find one of my PCs trying resus.. but it was hopeless.
Then there was the one in Brent Cross shopping center car park where the elderly chap went backwards and forwards and backwards and forwards...like a demolition derby....
Do a Google search, there's many, many examples.
In your shoes I'd be trying to persuade him not to.
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Can't see what the problem would be if the cat was an experienced driver with proper command of his/her limbs, and if the car was working properly.
Trouble is, a lot of drivers never become 'experienced' however many miles they cover. Some people just can't cope properly with machines. They press too hard and jerkily on the pedals.
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>> Can't see what the problem would be if the cat was an experienced driver with
>> proper command of his/her limbs, and if the car was working properly.
I'm no expert and am not medically trained.. however, I don't think it's that.
IMO as you get older we all lose some elements of our faculties and it's more difficult to think quickly and you can get confused.
Other than that, I don't know... it's puzzling. The people involved that I know of were not inebriated or otherwise suffering known medical conditions.
There's enough incidences of it however, to be a concern.
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>> IMO as you get older we all lose some elements of our faculties and it's more difficult to think quickly and you can get confused.
Perhaps, but it doesn't affect the actual driving in my particular case. It's because I've always liked cars.
What it does affect sometimes is remembering where I am and on what road. Had one or two episodes of driving around wondering which way to go (on roads I know inside out). Being old and faffing I sometimes check with Herself when choosing which way to go at an intersection. It annoys her a bit and I don't blame her.
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Bobby does mention a Cavalier auto in his past - but 25 years ago.
But I think I'm with WP, especially if it's a small auto like the Micra (see other thread) we have this week. At manoeuvring speed a powerful automatic rolls over small bumps and obstacles, so the driver's right foot need never stop covering the brake. But the small car gets stuck, requiring a touch of the other pedal. That can result in an alarming sudden movement, and the driver has then to switch pedals in a hurry to stop. A little disorientation or panic and you have a shop window moment - or worse.
So if he must have an automatic, get him into a proper Mercedes or Jaguar one, not a biscuit tin.
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WP, I know what you mean, last year I witnessed that exact type of accident in our car park at work - it was an automatic Civic that wiped out a few cars and a brick wall (actually one of the cars, a Merc C Class was pushed against a brick wall and even now there is still a perfect black circle on the wall where the tyre hit it).
However dad has been a volunteer driver for the local Hospice for the last 20 years and part of that role has been driving converted vehicles for wheelchair use and these have been automatic so he has had quite a bit of experience of them.
More worrying for me is the need for cruise control, he will drive up and down to my Brothers in Bishop Stortford, and my sister's in Dublin, a couple of times a year. Sitting on a motorway with cruise control on always gives me concern at his age!
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>>More worrying for me is the need for cruise control, he will drive up and down to my Brothers in Bishop Stortford, and my sister's in Dublin, a couple of times a year. Sitting on a motorway with cruise control on always gives me concern at his age!
Shouldn't be any different to using cc on a car with a manual g/box really. I've never used cc in cars I've had before, but I have used it on my auto Forester, even tho there aren't any m ways in Cornwall. Once I got over the feeling of not being in control, I grew to like using cc, and I reckon if I had to do a long trip on a motorway, I could quite easily nod off during the journey :(
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Cruise control is a software feature that could probably be reversibly disabled with a dealer's diagnostic tool.
But if you're concerned about attention span I don't think the technology is the problem; no car is safe if the driver isn't on top of the job. Bishops Stortford from Scotland is a drive I wouldn't lightly do solo - not without a lot of planning and breaks - and I'm a fully-fit fortysomething.
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>>Bishops Stortford from Scotland is a drive I wouldn't lightly do solo - not without a lot
>> of planning and breaks - and I'm a fully-fit fortysomething.
>>
I used to drive the London Edinburgh or back in two four hour stints when I was younger. Now I do not drive for more than two hours at a time or for more than four hours in a day. Cruise control reduces mental effort and fatigue but obviously it is vital to stay alert.
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>> Bishops Stortford from Scotland is a drive...
...typical of my daily life. Bracketed by work and a potential return trip before bed. You know you've had a long day when you've heard Alex Lester twice in the same one...
:-(
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>> You know you've had a long day when you've heard Alex Lester twice in the same one...
<<
He's only on at weekends now, isn't he?
Pat
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You know what I'm not sure Pat, you might be right. My son has dragged me screaming into the modern world by adding a music playlist to my iPhone. Mostly listen to that at night. Night time music radio can be fairly dire.
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He's only on at weekends now, isn't he?
Does that mean Humph drives non-stop all week?
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Feels like it sometimes !
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That was what I was alluding to with my somewhat weird sense of humour. Must remember the smiley next time 'cos it's got me in trouble before, hasn't it:)
Pat
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>> Going to head up there ON at the weekend,
NOTE. They are shut on Sundays and all their cars are moved out of sight.
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Wouldn't even begin to presume to have an opinion about Mr G Senior's driving skills but I do hold a strong view about automatics. In my experience, small cars with small engines suit manuals and large cars with large engines are better suited to autos. Subjective opinion of course.
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Wed 25 Nov 15 at 19:50
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The only automatics I've driven have been hired cars, and as a low mileage driver I don't have any interest whatsoever in owning one.
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Funny you should say that CS. To be truthful, if I'm setting off, as I often am, to do battle with extended traffic jam infested miles and subsequent city traffic I'll take an auto every time. Poodling about locally though and I rather enjoy nicking my wife's manual car.
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>> I'll take an auto every time. Poodling about locally though and I rather enjoy nicking
>> my wife's manual car.
>>
Funny you should say this, last weekend we bought a manual, ostensibly for my wife but also for our eldest to learn in which is why we went against the Aussie trend, having driven autos for 5 years we both commented on how nice it was to drive a manual and how it was second nature.
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One of each here and I like 'em both (the regular automatic, that is, not the cvt imposter on the drive.) But while I can see the TDS would work just fine with two pedals, I wouldn't fancy the LEC with three - well, OK, four. So perhaps I'm a convert to automatics - although I do work the selector quite hard on mine.
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>> small cars with small engines suit manuals and large cars with large engines are better suited to autos.
Yes, absolutely Humph.
Drove a small Toyota auto some years ago, and it was a horrid little motor. It had a slushpump too... The modern twin-clutch or whatever version is much better.
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Cheers ON - Sun was the plan (though I would have phoned them Fri anyway).
The local Arnold and Peter Vardy have a few though they are all dark colours and he fancies something lighter. However this is the end of the month, he will have a debit card in his hand so money might talk!
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Colt AMT. All of the toys. Automated manual I.e. Two pedal jobby. I like ours a lot but we (she) only covers circa 4500 miles per year.
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I would avoid DSG, Automated Manual, PowerShift and the likes and stick with CVT and conventional TC Auto.
Aside from how they drive, I would see DSGs as posing a higher risk of expensive repair outside the warranty period than TC or CVT. If marginal CO2 benefits (for BIK etc) aren't a problem to you.
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>> Cheers ON - Sun was the plan (though I would have phoned them Fri anyway).
Their website says they will open up by appointment, I know that the owner lives nearby.
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Most of you are sadly misinformed about modern small cars and modern well designed automatics with a TC..
The Jazz with CVT and TC is very smooth and changes are virtually imperceptible except at very low speeds/hard acceleration.. Far better then the Auto Merc 260E of the W124 era I drove or the 3.4 XJ6 I owned.. And the Multicronic Audi A4 of the 3004 era which I drove..
Automated manuals though are pants..
Old drivers with Parkinsons should not drive.. my uncle demolished a garage and his new Daimler with one: lack of control of his legs..
The fool who crashed into our house and wrote off his 3.5litre Land Rover was driving an auto and mistook accelerator for brake .. He was in his 50s.
There are lots of elderly drivers who really are unfit to drive as their faculties are waning. Hence the pleas to doctors to shop them. It will get worse with population ageing.
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'Sadly misinformed'...
Or maybe just maybe, entitled to an opinion based on personal experience and preferences?
;-)
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And the Multicronic Audi A4 of the 3004 era which I drove.
Crikey! How old were you then?
};---)
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" It will get worse with population ageing"
Hasn't it always done that? I know I have... :-)
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Well an update ON - we changed plan and went today and did the deal on the Note.
Very impressed with the place, the young salesman was good, very knowledgeable of the cars , his granda owns the place and his uncle runs the workshop! All who were there to say hello!
Delighted to deal with a family firm rather than Arnold Clark!
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Thanks for the feedback, glad to hear that it hasn't changed much. I bought several cars from the grandad. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 28 Nov 15 at 17:40
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Driving an automatic.
I use my right foot to go and my left foot to stop. (Takes a while to get used to left foot pressure on brake pedal, though)
What do other automatic users do?
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My left foot is for the clutch. If it hasn't got a clutch, it doesn't do anything.
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Depends, sometimes drive one footed, sometimes two. Random really. Don't overthink it to be honest.
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Left foot does the clutch in one car, parking brake in the other. That's it.
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>> I use my right foot to go and my left foot to stop. (Takes a
>> while to get used to left foot pressure on brake pedal, though)
Last auto I drove was my Mother's Clio c2009. Before that odd trips at helm of my late Father's Granada or later Hondas.
Left foot tucked out of way unless, exceptionally, needed to cover brake in close quarter creep manoeuvres where fast tickover might = excessive speed.
Possibly used f/b with left foot as a handbrake substitute on hill starts too.
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Steer with either hand, brake with either foot. Pretty easy really. Don't need to think about it much. Bit like if you drive a LHD manual, the gears are where they always were but you just use your other hand. Can't see the problem. It's just a car.
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I only use my right foot for accelerator and brake. If you're doing one you don't need to be doing the other. Left foot out of the way.
I don't think for general driving left foot braking in an auto is a good idea. Presumably your left foot is not near the brake pedal... but moving from the accelerator to brae pedal is quick and just like in a manual car.
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>>I only use my right foot for accelerator and brake. If you're doing one you don't need to be doing the other. Left foot out of the way.
ditto.
>>I don't think for general driving left foot braking in an auto is a good idea
Double dit.
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>> >>I don't think for general driving left foot braking in an auto is a good
>> idea
Absolutely nothing wrong with it, and it can add a finesse and preciseness to low speed manoeuvring, if you can adapt to the technique - its only muscle memory at work at the end of the day.
However, its ridiculous to suggest teaching it the type of old buffer who would drive their auto through the font window of Waitrose (my mother). They simply wouldn't cope and probably should be off the road anyway.
At the end of the day, right foot only driving is perfectly ok as well.
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Not funny but I had to laugh driving through Waitrose front window.Next car will be a auto again.90% Driving in town.
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As a very occasional auto user, basically hire cars I find it a lot simpler to simply use one foot.
I can see the usefulness of using two feet for low speed manoeuvring but wouldn't recommend it for someone transitioning from a manual to an automatic for the first time especially if they are getting on in years.
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I have never come across anybody using two feet driving a auto.There again I don't know that many auto drivers.
Didn't Honest Fred mentioned two feet driving.I remember there was a debate about it.
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"However, its ridiculous to suggest teaching it the type of old buffer who would drive their auto through the font window of Waitrose (my mother). They simply wouldn't cope and probably should be off the road anyway."
In recent years, within 2 miles of our house, I have known of an elderly gent who panicked and wrote off half a dozen cars in a town car park, an elderly lady who drove her car into the ornamental fishpond at a local hospital and an elderly local councillor who drove his car in through the front entrance of the Tesco Express down the road. How often is this sort of thing going on throughout the country with (generally) older drivers and automatics?
I guess nobody has bothered to look into it because usually the problem occurs at low speed and no one is injured.
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I wonder how many people who lose control of an automatic are new to automatics.
I rather suspect that it is not related.
The fact is that if you floor the accelerator on an automatic it will accelerate to its top speed. If you floor an accelerator on a manual it will either just sit there with its engine revving or will in the worst case reach whatever the top speed is for first gear.
Surely it is inevitable therefore that such accidents will be more common and more significant with automatics? Whether or not someone is new to an automatic is likely to be much less significant than the media seems to feel.
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>> I wonder how many people who lose control of an automatic are new to automatics.
>>
>> I rather suspect that it is not related.
I think you are on the wrong tack. Most of the accidents are uncontrolled short distance low speed. Gear ratio has nothing to do with it. True its probably not people who are new to automatics, Its a case of the olds pressing the accelerator when they should be pressing the brake. If they can't get one foot right, teaching them to use two will be a waste of time.
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"I wonder how many people who lose control of an automatic are new to automatics.
I rather suspect that it is not related."
Sometimes, when a person is very new to something, then perhaps they are apt to be extremely cautious and therefore not likely to get into trouble. The danger may lie in a period sometime afterwards when they 'think' they know what they're doing. In management psychology speak, the 'unconscious incompetence' phase.
Some 20 years after stopping riding my Triumph, I bought a Suzuki - and it still took me ages to get used to the simple change of left/right foot gear/brake pedals. And how might I react in a real emergency? I know some people are better able to cope with these sort of changes than others, and I believe that age has something to do with it. My son can easily cope with driving an automatic, and a manual car, and a friend rides a Honda on the road and races a Triumph on the track.
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Took me about 50 miles to get used to the control differences in my vintage car. I would rather suspect that having now got used to it, along with more conventional controls, I'm a bit more adaptable. I did all the learning on local roads at quiet times.
Hand throttle
Hand advance and retard
Hand air lever (sort of a choke)
Footbrake (on right) works rear brake only
Hand lever on left works front brakes only
Gear lever on right (and on the outside)
Manual oil pump with sight glass to get right oil flow (circa 20 drips per minute)
Steering wheel looks normal, but only 270 degrees lock to lock - so super direct
Clutch on left (so the only normal control really)
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The lesser problem is driving a manual after driving an auto for for a few thousand miles. Stalled the MINI in town today...red face.
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I was about to say exactly the same thing.If I have driven an automatic on a holiday hire, I find it very difficult to stop myself stalling when I get back. I forget to use the clutch when stopping.
Soon recover after a couple of days.
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Both my cars are auto at the moment, I am yet to come across a situation where I would need to use my left foot for anything. So I don't.
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No brainer, my current BMW is an auto as was my Volvo. Can't see the attraction of manual cars. Reduction in driver workload, especially in urban areas is a huge gain.
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Surely driving a manual car effectively becomes automatic to anyone used to it. You just do it. It's isn't a "workload". If I were to be asked what gear I was in I probably wouldn't know. Just in the right one.
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Perfectly true, CGN - until you're relieved of that non-existent workload and find it was a load after all. I have one of each and the automatic is certainly the more relaxing of the two. Not a problem most the time, of course - and the manual offers compensations in other respects - but if I was choosing a car primarily for comfort and ease of driving, it would have an automatic transmission.
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I guess so but the ,benefits, if any, of an automatic ar basically to be had by city drivers and I don't do a lot of that now I don't drive to London as frequently as I did. On a motorway of course there is very little difference between driving a manual diesel and an automatic in terms of effort. I like a little engagement with a vehicle when I am driving and I never feel that you really get that with an automatic. I will happily forego the labour saving benefits of an automatic for the time being.
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I like a little engagement with a vehicle when I am driving and I never feel that you really get that with an automatic.
You need to get to know an individual automatic to understand how to engage with it, but the option is certainly there. Mine allows me to select a 'highest gear to use' - 3, for example, for the steep hill down into town on my way home - and lock out those above it. If I'm on the motorway and see traffic bunching ahead of me, I'll sometimes shift down a gear to apply a little engine braking rather than startle those behind me with brake lights; that's even easier in an automatic as a manual - and perfectly kind to the car, with no friction parts to worry about. On a country road, I might pre-select third before beginning an overtake, rather than wait for the kickdown mechanism to do it for me. Little things that can make for smoother progress, just as you can in a manual.
Paradoxically, in urban traffic, an automatic can feel like rather hard work, constantly pulling forward and needing to be restrained with the brakes - and meanwhile burning fuel just to stir the transmission fluid. In my five-speeder, too, the ideal town gear is somewhere between second and third, so it does a lot of shifting, whereas a torquey manual is happy in third almost all the time. (More recent seven- and eight-speeders probably don't suffer from this.)
My point is that 'automatic' is only one of several possible driving modes for an automatic transmission. Just because it's the only one many drivers ever use doesn't mean the other options aren't there and worth exploring.
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Well I think I get all that but I'm not convinced that for my driving needs a manual offer me anything but more expense. For me at least it wold be a solution to a non existent problem, like cruise control.
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If anything I became more engaged with driving when I first owned an automatic, rather than just driving one occasionally. Without any deliberate plan to do so, I found myself thinking more consciously about positioning, anticipation, separation, speed etc.; I also found myself keeping two hands on the wheel by default, having no good reason to put one anywhere else.
Thinking about new habits cured me of one or two old bad ones I think, and I have continued to drive more deliberately since reverting to a manual.
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>> I am yet to come across a situation where I would need to use my left foot for anything.
Occasionally use my left foot to control the brake when parking or driving slowly up the slope into the garage.
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The Lexus makes lots of bonging noises if you open the door while its running. Sales guy told me it was because there had been instances where, due to the silent engine off while stationary nature of a hybrid, people had just left the vehicle and found it creeping off down the road.
I am enjoying the auto and like the way the electric motor causes it to creep like a proper auto
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Another Automatic DEATH -
91 yr old takes out cars & wall and dies in hospital 8 days later of Hospital acquired Pneumonia.
tinyurl.com/gsvhp79
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I don't see the word 'automatic' in that report, FB. That's simply - and sadly - someone who'd been allowed to go on driving beyond her best before date.
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>> I don't see the word 'automatic' in that report, FB. That's simply - and sadly
>> - someone who'd been allowed to go on driving beyond her best before date.
based ion the description of events, that says "automatic" to me.
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"based ion the description of events, that says "automatic" to me."
It sounds like the same sort of panic sequence that happened in a small car park near here when my friend's car and about half a dozen others were damaged/written off by an old boy in an automatic.
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>> tinyurl.com/gsvhp79
She said someone told her "the car was modified, the driver was 92 and she may have mixed up the pedals"
Modified?
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I wonder if there's any missing evidence due to fact that she wasn't breathalysed. Pre-prandial sherry and another for the road?
Always slightly worried they'd catch my Mother that way. Not now though, she gave up the car several years ago.
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My point was not that the car wasn't an automatic - it probably was - but that the accident was caused by a driver who shouldn't have been driving at all.
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>> My point was not that the car wasn't an automatic - it probably was -
>> but that the accident was caused by a driver who shouldn't have been driving at
>> all.
Being an auto, it probably kept her on the road well past manual gearbox ability date.
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>> >> tinyurl.com/gsvhp79
>>
>> She said someone told her "the car was modified, the driver was 92 and she
>> may have mixed up the pedals"
>>
>> Modified?
in some motability way I guess.
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>> >> Modified?
>>
>> in some motability way I guess.
>>
A good friend of mine had his wifes car modified for mobility reasons.
The power steering has changed to work with minimum input.
He said it needed extra care when he drove it as the steering needed so little input.
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Another automatic question - Bobby
