Mine work. I know this because I had to use all of them on the way home today.
There's an old section of motorway where the M4 passes Slough. I say old because it's straight in a way that newer motorways aren't. I hate it when it's busy - as it invariably is when I'm on it - because it's so hard to see well ahead.
I was part of a mid-paced lane 3 crocodile, trying to maintain a decent space from the Mercedes E in front. The gap would close a little - probably as someone ahead pushed into the line and the crocodile slowed - and then I could let it open again.
Only suddenly this time it wasn't closing, it was disappearing, and the E's lights were doing that strobing thing that indicates maximum braking. A millimoment later I presume mine were doing the same, and my mind was hoping whatever was behind had got the message too.
There was a final judder from the ABS and we all came to a safe, separate halt, took a few deep breaths and moved smoothly on. Clearly I'd misread the traffic ahead, failed to allow for the restricted view or to see that the bunching had become critical. I suspect the strobing Mercedes brake lights prompted me into slightly more urgent action that may have saved his bacon and mine, and it may be that my BMW ones did the same for the driver behind. I'm also very pleased that the wind had cleared this morning's surface water, and that I wasn't fiddling with any in-car distractions. I might also stay out of lane 3 in that stretch for a bit; it doesn't gain much in terms of progress and does seem more prone to bunching, perhaps triggered by events on the other carriageway.
No harm done, but that's the brakes tested for now. Hope I won't need them again for a while.
|
|
Does your car have EBA (Emergency Brake Assist), my last three cars have had it. I have never provoked it into operation and wonder how it senses that full braking effort is required.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 7 Jan 16 at 19:10
|
>> I have never provoked it into operation and wonder how it senses that full braking
>> effort is required.
>>
Without being facetious, maybe you should find a country road with no traffic, and do a 'OHMYGOD!' braking manoeuvre, so that you may experience it?
When I did car testing, one of the first things I tried was an emergency stop. Just to know. Then a series of braking tests to see when the ABS would kick n.
|
>>do a 'OHMYGOD!' braking manoeuvre, so that you may experience it?
Tried that once on my last car, on a warm, dry day when there was nothing else around at around 50 MPH.
DAMN, it hurt when I hit the seat belt!
Won't be trying that again unless necessary.
|
It's quite difficult to provoke EBA in my experience. I don't think it's just a question of brake pressure.
I tried to see what it did on our old Civic, bought in 2002. Nothing unusual happened. Sometime later, I had occasion to get on the brakes quite swiftly and sharply, though not full pressure. I must have triggered the EBA because I had the sensation of the pedal moving away under my foot.
It's a good idea though. I think it has been fairly well established that the majority of people don't brake hard enough soon enough in an emergency, even if they end up standing on the pedal.
|
>> I think it has been fairly well established that the majority of people don't brake hard enough
I don't know about that, I think I am a "blind brake thumper".
One of my vehicles, its some kind of Asian saloon car, has no ABS. About a week ago I had to brake for a car pulling out in front of me. It wasn't a major emergency and just one of those daily things.
However, all 4 wheels locked and there was much smoke, noise and sideways-ness.
Kind of suggesting to me that I do, when in an ABS equipped vehicle, hit the brakes quite hard enough and probably shouldn't be allowed out on my own in one that is not.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 8 Jan 16 at 00:07
|
>> and wonder how it senses that full braking effort is required.
....smell.......
|
|
Why is adrenaline always Brown?
|
If your abs kicked in you were too close in the first place. Sorry to be blunt but...
;-)
|
If your ABS kicked in you were too close...
I don't follow your logic there, Humph - we know ABS doesn't stop us shorter, just straighter. In any case, perhaps I wasn't clear: the judder was tiny and just before the car stopped; the preceding deceleration was rapid but smooth. As I mentioned, it was fortunate that the surface was dry, or the ABS would have had much more to do.
More broadly, the evidence that I was too close has nothing to do with ABS; it's that I had to hit the brakes at all. Hence the thoughts on what I might do differently tomorrow evening.
|
>> If your abs kicked in you were too close in the first place. Sorry to
>> be blunt but...
>>
True, but very difficult to apply strictly in practice. If you leave the recommended 2 second gap, and twice as much if the road is wet, then on a busy road you will get a succession of overtakers nipping in in front, and you will have to be constantly slowing to restore the gap.
In effect, you will be sort of reverse-overtaking, working your way to the back of the queue.
|
On a slightly more serious note, when we bought the Colt we noticed that it had the 'thing' that under severe braking the hazards would come on briefly, but we also read (we think) that that action was illegal in GB, but not in Europe/elsewhere or have we (I) got my stuff mixed up.
Sorry, waffling, tis been a long cold day.
|
Similar thing to happen to me a while back. Just managed to stop in time, chap behind me didn't manage so well... I heard the tires looked in the mirror and thought 'oh crap'.
Mine wasn't as bad as I thought, t'other car was written off for sure.
|
>> had the 'thing' that under severe braking the hazards would come on briefly, but we
>> also read (we think) that that action was illegal in GB,
I think, in an example of European standardisation, the brake/hazards link was legalised in late nineties/early noughties.
|
EBA: Yes, although it's Dynamic Brake Control in BMW-speak. The manual tells me that activation of the Dynamic Brake Lights also puts on the hazard lights; I confess I didn't notice whether this happened - and they cancel automatically on pulling away, so perhaps I was too busy with other things for it to register.
Ian's point is a fair one, and I've done some sharp stops in the process of getting the feel of the car. But (a) it's quite a different experience when bearing down on a stationary object with nowhere else to go, and (b) I'd rather not be so confident in my car's stopping power that I get drawn into risk compensation behaviour. For one thing I also have the LEC, which has similarly strong brakes but weighs 250kg more before I load the family into it; I wonder if I'd have been able to stop that in time.
|
Wouldn't have had to WDB, you'd have been driving more serenely.
;-)
|
Discovered the other day the Lancer is scared of me driving it at speed. I was pressing on a bit (indicated 110) on the M3 when the ABS light pinged on. I let it all wind down gradually to a lower speed, gave the brakes a dab and everything was all fine. When I got off home I turned it off, then on, and the light went out. Its been fine since, as it was before.
Not stuffed a ODB reader on it yet, I assume its an out of range or missing pulse error.
|
|
Sometimes the electrics can be randomly affected when you go through a radar trap.
|
>> Sometimes the electrics can be randomly affected when you go through a radar trap.
Its ok, I have cloned your plates.
|
No, it's true apparently, those new overhead gantry jobs, mess with the dashboard lights it seems.
Probably just a coincidence, wouldn't worry too much...
|
>> No, it's true apparently, those new overhead gantry jobs, mess with the dashboard lights it
>> seems.
>>
>> Probably just a coincidence, wouldn't worry too much...
I'm not, there are no overhead gantries not he section i was making progress on.
|
|
That's a relief then. As long as you're sure, and it probably wasn't one of the mobile vans with the same technology. Wouldn't give it another thought. Be fine I'm sure. Nothing to be concerned about, just one of those random things almost certainly.
|
>> That's a relief then. As long as you're sure,
I'm sure, the mirrors didn't blow off either. I can't be sure the wind will not blow the bumpers of the Fezzer this weekend tho.
|
>> Discovered the other day the Lancer is scared of me driving it at speed. I
>> was pressing on a bit (indicated 110) on the M3 w
The Xantia used to pull that stunt occasionally if you pushed it. As you say, seems to be some sort of read error in the sensor.
|
|
I only provoked the EBA on the T5 once. Slightly distracted, I missed a car turning right. The car slammed on itself and screamed an warning and a big red light. I supplemented the car's own braking and it stopped almost dead. Woke me up I must say.
|
Any of you lot been to the opticians recently?
;-)
|
|
I was out of it...momentary lapse.
|
>> I was out of it...momentary lapse.
Low bridge episode?
;>)
|
>> Any of you lot been to the opticians recently?
>>
>> ;-)
>>
Get a car with collision avoidance (even Golfs have it now) and you can leave your glasses at home.
|
|
Can you get Nissan's with it fitted to door mirrors?.......
|
>> Get a car with collision avoidance (even Golfs have it now) and you can leave your glasses at home.
>>
I hope this guy had collision avoidance.
www.scotsman.com/regions/glasgow-strathclyde/pensioner-drives-20-miles-on-wrong-side-of-m8-1-3994627
|
>> Wouldn't have had to WDB, you'd have been driving more serenely.
>>
Serenely - I like that description. :)
Ever since I watched the TV version of Rebecca I have enjoyed driving serenely, greatly impressed by the sedate way Max de Winter drove his beautiful old Rolls Royce round the Cornish lanes.
|
I champion serenity. It doesn't necessarily translate to slow either. Wafting with vigour perhaps.
;-)
|
>> Does your car have EBA (Emergency Brake Assist), my last three cars have had it.
>> I have never provoked it into operation and wonder how it senses that full braking
>> effort is required.
>>
Does it deploy an anchor?
|
>> Does it deploy an anchor?
>>
Some of my transport did, no ABS though. :-)
|
Many years ago, when traffic was probably lighter than today, I was in the third lane and found the cars in front suddenly braking. I was maintaining plenty of braking distance for the conditions. But I still had to brake hard.
The car behind was slow to react and he locked up, smoke coming from the tyres and I could hear the screeching. He would have hit me if I continued braking... Quick decision to cadence brake (I did have ABS) and risk getting closer to the car in front avoided a rear end collision from the driver behind.
He probably really had a brown trousers moment from the look on his face. The cars all got going and he then got into lane 2 and travelled a lot slower than most cars. I think he'd learned a valued lesson.
A few hours later, on a busy roundabout a car shot out and tried to get ahead of us already on the roundabout. I was indicating to leave. A quick decision on my part to turn and keep going round and not exit as planned meant he missed me. Just. Second near miss and not my fault again.
And then I got to the customer site to do the day job. I suppose I was lucky that day.
|
Not many drivers today will be overly familiar with having truly awful brakes as standard equipment; I mean all-round single leading shoe drums without a servo which quite literally would not stop a clock, and faded to nothing on a relatively shallow hill descent.
I'd actually go as far as to suggest that over-reliance on ABS and other modern tech is one of the causal factors of the upsurge in tailgating. No technology, though, is going to improve driver response times so that gap has to remain just as big.
Being aware that your brakes may not quite do the job, combined with the certain knowledge that you have neither seatbelts nor airbags and will be unlikely to survive a head-on collision at much over jogging pace, is probably on balance a far better improver of driving technique than anything the electronics geeks can devise!
|
>> I'd actually go as far as to suggest that over-reliance on ABS and other modern
>> tech is one of the causal factors of the upsurge in tailgating.
Is there an upsurge? Is there an increase in shunts? If there is It could be a product of higher traffic volumes?
>> Being aware that your brakes may not quite do the job, combined with the certain
>> knowledge that you have neither seatbelts nor airbags and will be unlikely to survive a
>> head-on collision at much over jogging pace, is probably on balance a far better improver
>> of driving technique than anything the electronics geeks can devise!
Technology exists, to deny it is foolishness, especially as some of it requires technique of its own. For example, how many people realise you can still steer while ABS is triggering? Most old drivers who drove without it, just hang on to the wheel in grim death waiting for the "i have no control" inevitable, when there is an alternative.
In times of danger, everyone stamps on the brake as hard and fast as they can, Brake Assist does it harder and faster. I dont suppose many realise they have it, or what it does, or even when its worked, so I have no idea why that would make them tailgate.
This "spike on the steering wheel" mentality is row-locks. No-one thinks safety systems make them invincible, everyone knows a car crash could kill them.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 8 Jan 16 at 08:28
|
>> For example, how many people realise you can still steer while ABS is
>> triggering? Most old drivers who drove without it, just hang on to the wheel in
>> grim death waiting for the "i have no control" inevitable, when there is an alternative.
How many folk panic the first time they experience the pulsing pedal as ABS kicks in?
|
>> This "spike on the steering wheel" mentality is row-locks. No-one thinks safety systems make them
>> invincible, everyone knows a car crash could kill them.
>>
True; but there's also no denying that the percentages have altered dramatically. I didn't suggest that tailgating was the only cause, and I do agree that higher traffic volumes certainly have much more influence.
Problem is of course that few people outisde the emergency services, and the advanced driving scene, do know how to use that technology because they're simply not trained to use it.
|
>> > No-one thinks safety systems make them
>> invincible,
>>
I don't think you can be a very astute observer of mankind if you really believe that.
The point is they don't "think" at all - and many people's actions demonstrate that.
How often have you seen the aftermath of some accident and wondered "why did you do that? what can you have been thinking when you decided to do that?"
People don't think - they act.
But I agree the spike is unlikely to prompt them otherwise.
|
Given that the rates of death and serious injury on the roads was far higher, proportionally, before seat belts, airbags and abs and all that jazz, I think we can safely surmise that people were not more risk averse in their driving when honing about in flimsy bean cans with feeble drum brakes and a steering column pointing at their hearts. Were it true that removing safety features made people more cautious, this would not be so. The 60s would have been the golden era of safe motoring. They were not. Despite AC having somehow survived them.
So, again, "common sense" fails the real world test.
|
>> Were it true that removing safety features made people more cautious, this would not
>> be so.
It is sometimes, but only in special circumstances.
Have you never, when younger, driven a car that you knew to be severely unsafe?
I once bought a wrecked Saab 96 for spares. It ran, but had no brakes at all apart from a barely functioning handbrake. None of the lights worked, and the rear suspension had collapsed from rust so the axle was just wedged in the wheel arches.
I drove it slowly home, about 10 miles, very safely.
|
Driving a car you know to be broken and unsafe in some way is not the same as jumping in your Vauxhall Victor knowing all is well with it, such as it is.
For those of you who were driving in the 60s, a question: did you drive any more cautiously in your Wolseley 15/50 than you do in your 21st century Ford Focus? I bet you didn't. So it's daft to suggest that you'd do so now if your Toyota Doris didn't have an airbag.
I started driving in the 80s, in 60s/70s designed and built cars. I don't think I drove them any more cautiously than I do my tank-like SAAB. Having an airbag has not led me to be more cavalier.
|
>> I bet you didn't. So it's daft to suggest that you'd do so now
>> if your Toyota Doris didn't have an airbag.
Isn't there an element on what you never had you never miss?
The car I drove with most brio (or elan?)was my Pug 104ZS, a 78 model owned from 82-86. Three point inertia reel belts and (probably) some sort of energy absorbing set up in steering column. No crumple zones, no door bars and no airbags. Brakes were servo assisted disc/drum and while much better than unpowered drum/drum in a Mini they were not really that effective and needed a very firm push.
If I went back to it now I think I'd be a lot more cautious.
|
>>
>> For those of you who were driving in the 60s, a question: did you drive
>> any more cautiously in your Wolseley 15/50 than you do in your 21st century Ford
>> Focus?
Yes. because I was at school, and running my car on pocket money. I never bought new spares when I could bodge a secondhand one to work. I salvaged brake pipes from a slowly dismantled spare car and replaced mine to talk it through the MOT. Every time my foot touched the brake, I imagined my "new" hose beginning to swell. So I took jolly good care never to get into a situation where I might need to brake hard.
I didn't buy new kingpin bushes, I drove out the worn ones and re white-metalled them with solder. Then I labouriously hand-fettled them with a bit of broken piston ring. Only just before the MOT of course, because they slowly wore out again and the steering resumed its normal 6" play at the steering wheel.
Now I still drive a 60's car, but I fit new parts and keep it in top condition, and the Triumph is a joy occasionally to drive quite hard. The servo brakes are pretty good, but I still cautiously keep my distance. I follow the old advice that using the brakes is the equivalent of jettisoning petrol - you buy petrol to build up momentum, and then throw your money away when you touch the brake pedal.
|
Were it true that removing safety features made people more cautious, this would not
>> be so. The 60s would have been the golden era of safe motoring. They were
>> not. Despite AC having somehow survived them.
>>
The difference now being that we have modern effective safety systems and can make an informed comparison. For example; my old GMC pick-up had a steel dashboard, no seatbelts, drum brakes without servo and was built like a brick outhouse. Since I have by and large always driven cars with at least some safety features, I was minded not to drive it around like I would something like a modern Toyota pick-up because I was fully aware that it would end in tears.
The benefit of hindsight is a wonderful thing but needs to be taken in context.
|
>> How EBA works.
>> youtu.be/r9hmPK2SuiE
Pity the word 'breaking' is used.
|
>> >> How EBA works.
>> >> youtu.be/r9hmPK2SuiE
>>
>> Pity the word 'breaking' is used.
>>
I missed that, the MB system also animated on the tube is somewhat more complicated.
|
I learned to drive in the mid-1960s in my mum's 1100. She learned to drive in the mid-1930s in her mum's Morris (10, I think). My parents certainly thought cars were safer in the 60s than the 30s, particularly in the braking department: fortunately pre-war cars were a lot slower.
Our generation was the first to use seatbelts from the start of our driving careers. One had to remember not to let them make you feel invincible.
|
I certainly modify my driving wjen in the '52 Jowett. 9" drums with no servo and cross plies don't allow for fancy, boy racer braking.
Cadence is my ABS together with my four principles of driving
Concentration
Observation
Anticipation
Disbelief.
Served me well over 50 yrs.
|
|
As I've stated many times, I just assume at all times that at least some of the people I'm sharing road space with will do something unpredictable some of the time and try to drive in such a way as to mitigate against that being a problem to me.
|
>>
>> I certainly modify my driving wjen in the '52 Jowett. 9" drums with no servo
>> and cross plies don't allow for fancy, boy racer braking.
>>
Agree totally Ted, the extra challenge I find driving the Commer is approaching a junction there is often some wally who thinks I can get out in front of this old thing, forgetting that if they misjudge it "this old thing" has drum brakes and the handling of a small supertanker.
|
Indeed, Commerboy...........and don't you get the tailgaters desperate to read the badge on the back....and equally as desperate to overtake to see what the front looks like ?
|
Brakes - Old Navy
