Snake Oil or Wonder Fuel ?
Save 'up to' 1 litre per tank (based on a 50 litre tank) - and although it says 'Unleaded and Diesel' on the front of the leaflet, the small print says the comparison is between 'previous Shell formula Gasoline' and 'our new instantaneous fuel economy formula'
So will I see a 2% improvement ? I usually fill up once a week, at either a Shell garage or Asda in equal proportions, and over the last 11400 miles have averaged 50.06 mpg.
Watch this space - I'll let you know, but I'm not holding my breath in expectation of any radical improvement
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I filled up with some of this yesterday, didnt intend to, but this the nearest garage.
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>> So will I see a 2% improvement ?
Is 2% really that important? You could make a much bigger difference than that just by altering your driving style.
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>> Is 2% really that important?
Not at all - I'm just curious as to if there will actually be any significant difference
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I'm no marketing expert, but I'm surprised Shell promote their products in this way.
The claimed benefits are not great, and there will be plenty of people shouting 'snake oil'.
Shell fuel has always been well thought of, but branding such as this - rightly or wrongly - attracts derision, which cannot do much for the company name.
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If Shell only claim 2% you can be sure it won't give you more than that. I haven't seen their advert but I bet it says up to 2%.
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With my 30 litre fuel tank (Fiat Panda Cross, not a motorbike) the extra distance to a Shell station could easily negate a 2% saving.
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At "up to" 2% you would have to keep a very close eye on your consumption over a sustained period to notice any difference. 2% of a 50 litre tank is 1 litre, so you might get another 10 miles or so, at 45mpg. Say 510 miles instead of 500 on a tank full.
So we're relying on Borasport to watch the numbers and let us know the truth. No pressure B :-)
In some small defence of Shell I think Total have made similar claims, but to be honest they kind of wash over me.
JH
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Well the Octavia has recenly started doing more to the gallon. . . .
Shell can't claim the credit - it is still run on Sainsburys or Tesco diesel. Must be a lighter right foot, or at 62k it is finally run in!
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Of course the claims include the advertiser's favourite weasel words, 'up to' - at least the billboard poster I saw today did. Even if the one litre in 50 claim is correct (which would give a 2.04% improvement in miles per gallon) any individual user would need to burn an awful lot of the stuff, and keep meticulous records, to be sure it's making any difference at all.
The marketers know this, of course - and they also know that most people neither know nor really care how much fuel they're burning. But they also know that people will drive to the other end of town to save 2p a litre - less than 2% - so they hope enough people will be taken in by the possibility to at least give it a try.
Me? I tend to buy Shell anyway, so it won't affect my habits.
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>>49 mpg going up to 50 mpg is 2.0x%
1/49 is greater than 1/50
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OK. I was reading "saves you up to 1 litre per tank" as meaning you get 51 litres worth of miles out of 50. I won't quibble over 0.04% :-)
JH
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2% saving is so small it comes into the area of being unable to be assessed by Joe Public -
1)a few less cars on the route home because of the holidays,
2)can you tell the difference in filling the take 97% full as against 99% full,
3)average speed on a long journey dropping by 5 mph because of rain etc would produce a bigger saving,
4)as would a lighter right foot........................
Over say 2000 miles you could eliminate the tank full / not quite full error in filling up but the others are variables outwith the control of the driver.
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I have a choice of 2 stations on my route to / from work. One an Asda and the other a shell. The shell is usually the same price give or take 1p as Asda, and it may be nothing more than coincidence, but the last time I filled up at Asda the trip claimed 47 Mpg, whereas since I have stuck with Shell its 53.
Anyway, I filled up today not really caring about their new product, and the guy on the till was "keen" to point out that I had filled up with it. I felt sorry for him having to pretend for the 100th time today to be excited by it.
Will keep an eye over the next tank or so to see if I do notice any difference, but not expecting it plus a tank will last me 3 weeks.
Gues for a quicker answer we need to look to some of the higher mileage members...Humph....
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Shell fuel hasn't invariably been well thought of. Wasn't there some problem with exhaust valves burning out, which was attributed to the fuel, some years ago?
Last edited by: Perky Penguin on Tue 27 Jul 10 at 19:40
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Never really noticed an MPG improvement, but Shell Diesel Extra makes the Passat TDI sound much quieter and smoother when it's cold, unlike supermarket fuel.
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Shell is the cheapest fuel anyway in my area so I can't really loose. I have noticed an improvement in MPG but the roads are quieter. So many times I can travel more than a mile without getting stopped at a red light, where as a few weeks ago I could not get more than 500 yards without hitting a light.
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>> Wasn't there some problem ... attributed to the fuel, some years ago?
Formula Shell, when my dad had a new C-reg Escort therefore 1985-88 ish. ISTR the issue was that the super-duper detergent additive was added as a concentrate to each tanker of petrol, without being mixed in properly.
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As per all good marketing gimmicks, I wouldn't be surprised if Shell had slowly reduced their additive pack over the last year or so (might partially explain why their forecourt prices seem to be a little lower than the other big guys), just so they can put it back up to previous levels and advertise the "increased additives".
See also Mars Bars, Walkers Crisps, etc ,etc.
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>> See also Mars Bars, Walkers Crisps, etc ,etc.
they put Mars bars and smoky bacon flavour in Petrol?
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>> they put Mars bars and smoky bacon flavour in Petrol?
No just diesel. What do you think is wrecking all those DPFs ?
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>> Formula Shell, when my dad had a new C-reg Escort therefore 1985-88 ish. ISTR the
>> issue was that the super-duper detergent additive was added as a concentrate to each tanker of petrol, without being mixed in properly.
Seemed to affect Vauxhall engines more than most, IIRC. At least that was the "word on the street"
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I have just been looking at "Freddie's Challenge": www.shell.co.uk/freddieschallenge
"Challenged" may be more appropriate. The questions so far are pretty obvious, except:
"How does using cruise control on long distance trips affect how much fuel you use?
a) Helps you change gears whenever you want
b) Helps you maintain a constant speed and therefore save fuel
c) Makes you burn more fuel at a lower speed"
The answer, apparently, is b) - not what most people here and at the other place say.
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>> The answer, apparently, is b) - not what most people here and at the other
>> place say.
>>
I agree with that answer, you must remember that most people who populate these forums are motoring incompetents.
Im off to bed!
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 27 Jul 10 at 22:29
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So, 500 miles further on @ 52.06 mpg, lower than the running average of 50.69, and probably not significant given that the variation can be between 49 and 59 mpg
If you're an obsessive, watch this space
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I use Shell fuel anyway, as they are regularly the cheapest in my area, and always undercut the supermarkets. I don't think a litre out of a tankful (the claim on the ad) will be noticeable, as l'escargot points out, driving style and traffic conditions over a tankful will make a bigger difference than that.
I'm also getting a noticeable improvement on these lovely quiet, school holiday roads. I haven't yet completed a tankful to measure mpg, but the TDI has 280 miles on the odo, and is still showing 3/4 of a tank. It's normally down towards half at this point. Could this be the time I break my current (702 miles to the light / 63.2 calculated mpg) record?
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...break my current (702 miles to the light / 63.2 calculated mpg) record?...
Friend of mine regularly gets 60-plus mpg from his newish diesel Golf.
Say what you like about that VW engine, and I have done in the past, but it sips the juice.
My 2.0ltr diesel CC3 is a much heavier car, but it will only do about 43/44mpg.
An 'ordinary' hatch Focus would do more, but my 1.8 diesel did well to break 50mpg.
All the cars I've mentioned have roughly the same amount of grunt, so the comparison is a valid one.
Last edited by: ifithelps on Wed 4 Aug 10 at 11:51
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"up to 1 litre"?
A bit of anticipation and less braking would save far more than that over every tankful...
Just marketing hype...
(and they've shut both Shell gargages I use on the way to work so I'll just have to use the Tesco 5p/l off vouchers instead!)
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I don't want to part with this Golf for that exact reason. It's 8 yrs old, and it's no longer the epitome of modern technology, but I have never driven anything with a comparable grunt / economy ratio. In fairness, it isn't encumbered with DPF or any other Euro IV nonsense.
My 63.2 was achieved over a tankful on all long (>=25 mile) runs in good but not perfect traffic conditions. There was a 10 mile snarl up on the M3 on one day which I remember. Otherwise, I stuck to an indicated 70 on motorways, and did prod it occasionally to safely join faster roads or perform the odd overtake.
It has everything needed for good economy. An efficient engine, near perfect gearing (70 mph in 6th = almost bang on peak torque), and by modern standards it's relatively light.
A friend has a pre-Euro IV Fabia vRS, and that is even better. It's the engine that's the star, not the car.
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Is the 'fuelsave ' the same price or more expensive than the normal? I filled up in Devon on Monday and did see some notice about fuelsave but the normal Shell unleaded was 113.7p which is the cheapest I have seen anywhere for months. ( Trago Mills near Bovey Tracey if anyone is interested ).
Am I in the minority here when I say I am not really in the slightest bothered about saving fuel and increasing my MPG ,I get around 30 mpg average on a 2.4 litre engine Accord and with my heavy right foot I do not hang about..... I am not going to mimse around in the name of saving the planet and a 2% saving is neither here nor there to me.......and I am not going five miles out of my way to save one or two pence on a litre.
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...when I say I am not really in the slightest bothered about saving fuel and increasing my MPG...
Depends on how much, doesn't it?
A couple of mpg either way is neither here nor there.
But if a Golf will do 60+ mpg, and a similarly powered Focus will struggle to reach 50mpg, it is time to give the matter some thought.
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>> But if a Golf will do 60+ mpg, and a similarly powered Focus will struggle to reach 50mpg, it is time to give the matter some thought.
Nah even at that it's not
12k miles @ 50 mpg = 240 gallons = 1092 litres = £1310.40
@ 60mpg = 200 gallons = 910 litres = £1092.00
Difference: £218.40 / year = £4.20 / week.
You could almost, take up smoking if you bought a VAG iffy :-P
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...Difference: £218.40 / year = £4.20 / week...
I wasn't expecting thousands, but I thought the saving would be a bit more than that.
Another way to look at it is that each single mpg saved is worth about £22 over 12,000 miles, maybe £25 to me over a year.
A few mpgs either way really isn't worth worrying about.
Now I see why you dealt with that idiot on the motorway the way you did.
I'm persuaded - stuff slowing down, drop a couple of gears and give it some serious wellie. :)
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'fuelsave' is a rebranding of 'normal' - the alternative is shell 'costmore' or whatever it's called
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>> Shell unleaded was 113.7p which is the cheapest I have seen anywhere for months. (
>> Trago Mills near Bovey Tracey if anyone is interested ).
>>
>>
Trago is 5p/litre cheaper than anywhere else, though I do have my suspicions that it's Shell's "cheaper" diesel...
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It occurs to me that this stuff has been made available just at the start of the school holidays when the daily grind into work has a little less traffic (well that's how I remember it :-) ) so you'll get better mpg. Or you're off on a long run to your holiday destination and, as long as you don't get snarled up in the queue to get into Cornwall you should have a nice, long, economical run.
JH
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I think it has a higher cetane rating so burns a bit more efficiently plus a good additive pack. It is these that s.uld help with efficiency.
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The question is Esso at 113.9p or Shell at 114.9p?
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naah
for me it's shell @115, sainsburys @115 or BP at 118. They are all within a couple of hundred yards of each other and BP is always 3 or 4p more than the other two, and the Sainsburys is being rebuilt and they've made a right pigs ear of access
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Well, so far trip computer is showing 57.4 on this tank of fuelsave stuff. about 5 mpg better, but the real test will be the brim to brim. usually get 700 when the light comes on so will see.
Only difference I can see is that the weather has been cooler so may have used the a/c less
On a side note a friend has just got a golf bluemotion and is getting 71 mpg on run. Guess it may improve a little as it gets run in
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m, is that fuel computer mpg or brim to brim and do the sums?
30 seconds "research" shows that the Bluemotion appears not to be horrendously more expensive than the standard model, though goodness knows how the kit levels compare, so you don't have to do 100,000 miles just to get back the extra expenditure.
JH
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>> m, is that fuel computer mpg or brim to brim and do the sums?
>>
>> 30 seconds "research" shows that the Bluemotion appears not to be horrendously more expensive than
>> the standard model, though goodness knows how the kit levels compare, so you don't have
>> to do 100,000 miles just to get back the extra expenditure.
>>
>> JH
>>
Fuel computer - to lazy to brim and do the math :-)
Think it must have just been a lighter right foot as the figure has dropped back to 53.something
Think my mates bluemotion is same as SE spec, but vw added sat nav by mistake so he got it foc. So far he is pleased
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>> do the math
Maths. Not "math". Unless you're an illitriate yank, or speak with a lithp.
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>> >> do the math
>>
>> Maths. Not "math". Unless you're an illitriate yank, or speak with a lithp.
>>
Big Breaths? Yeth and I'm only Sixteen.
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Filled up with the 3rd tankfull @ the weekend - currently the running average with fuelsave over the last 1300 miles is 51.19, as opposed to 52.06 with a mix of 'ordinary shell' and whatever asda have been pumping out.
Of course, shell may have been distributing the new super duper stuff for months, I doubt they went round a few weeks ago and emptied all the tanks and refilled them
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My tank of non fuelsave averaged 39.81, my tank of fuelsave averaged 38.30
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I intended to try fuelsave today, but the only diesel pump on the island was the super duper stuff.
Busy station - Shell on the A1 near Scotch Corner - so no chance of using another pump.
I treated myself to a tankful of rocket fuel at a not unreasonable 121.9 a litre.
For the last few miles back to the caravan I was stuck behind a tractor and trailer.
That car of mine goes a treat at 25mph in fourth, and I managed to add a tenth of an mpg to the average fuel consumption.
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Has the weekend started early iffy? I'd better tell the missus.
JH
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...Has the weekend started early iffy?...
If only.
The working week has started late - back to the coal face tomorrow.
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I reckon the biggest saving I am going to make with Fuelsave is the £2 discount token I got out of the Daily Record on Saturday. :o)
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I used this for my last fill up and I have gained an extra 5 miles. I have done quite a few long journeys last week with less stop starts so it is probably that, but it does make me wonder.
Its genius marketing by Shell really.
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I think that you'll find that it is much more likely that your driving/routes caused the extra 5 miles rather than the fuel... 5 miles is much too small a difference to work on from one tankful... come back and tell us when you've used it for half a dozen fill-ups!
BTW just put the diesel version into mine as I ran out of Tesco 5p off vouchers!
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Well, 7 tanks full later, running average on 'fuelsave' has risen to 51.86, but it's still less that what it was before, and that was probably 50% Shell anyway. I wonder what will happen if I return to 100% supermarket ?
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I've changed my tyres to Michelin Energy and had the tracking sorted. It appears to have more effect than any fuel changes - approx +2mpg more.
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>> I've changed my tyres to Michelin Energy and had the tracking sorted. It appears to
>> have more effect than any fuel changes - approx +2mpg more.
>>
My partners Sharan came on Continental eco contacts, and I replaced with the same first time around.
Decided earlier this year to get Avons instead, and have noticed a drop in MPG, and they appear to be wearing quicker. Will revert back to contis at the next change, but I have come to the conclusion that the "eco" tyres really do make a difference.
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hmmm... two months exclusively on fuelsave, 4249 miles, 10 tanks full and a running average of 51.39
which is still lower than the 52.06 that I was getting on a mixture of 50% old fashioned Shell and 50% Asda !
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would be interesting to pass this to Shell, or even Watchdog to get their opinions on it?
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In yesterday's Sunday Times In Gear there was a reasonably scientific comparison test of the main "wonder fuels", measuring economy against price per litre over the same route at the same time of day in the same car. The results were:
standard Tesco unleaded costs 12.9p a mile
Shell FuelSave costs 12.5p a mile
BP Ultimate costs 14.4p a mile
Tesco Momentum costs 13.7p a mile
So according to their results (mainly because Shell FuelSave is marketed as the "standard" unleaded and not the "premium" stuff) the Shell petrol does save you a small amount of money.
Personally I fill up with whatever's cheapest near home, although if I'm coming out of Leicester I make a point of filling up at the Shell garage at Glenfield because I heard that Shell refine their own petrol whereas everyone else uses a common "blend" with brand-specific additives. Plus they price-match the nearest supermarkets.
Last edited by: Dave_TD {P} on Mon 4 Oct 10 at 13:40
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>>Personally I fill up with whatever's cheapest near home, although if I'm coming out of >>Leicester I make a point of filling up at the Shell garage at Glenfield because I heard that >>Shell refine their own petrol whereas everyone else uses a common "blend" with brand->>specific additives. Plus they price-match the nearest supermarkets.
Shell is selling or has sold lots of its own refinery capacity - Stanlow is for sale if you have £500m or so. BP has sold most of their European capacity.
V-Power comes only from Stanlow in the UK - they have their own technology - rest of Shell is the standard product from refineries - e.g. Shell haul from Ineos in Grangemouth, Esso in Southhampton - Shell Std fuel is EU Standard product with Shell additives
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A couple of times I've bought a tank of fuel which seems to give better mileage.
I'm sure I've refilled from the same filling station and then got lower mileage.
The thoroughly unscientific conclusion I've drawn is that different fuels do give slightly different mileage.
But the picture is further complicated because the same branded fuel varies batch to batch.
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>> But the picture is further complicated because the same branded fuel varies batch to batch.
>>
>>
The fuel comes out of the refinery at a "standard" spec. After that it depends on the accuracy of the retailers additive package.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 4 Oct 10 at 16:45
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My mpg varies more than 2% tankful to tankful. Would not notice such a small change.
And it would be a 40min round trip to fill up with Shell, so no use to me!
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>> The fuel comes out of the refinery at a "standard" spec
95 ron, standard fuel... 'comes out of the refinery at a "standard" spec'
With V-power and BP ultimate, it's more complex. E.g. they wont divert a VPower tanker to an esso station caught short, but there's agreements in place to divert one brand to another's forecourt in certain situations.
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Passed my nearest Shell garage yesterday evening. The new regular diesel was 5p a litre more than my local Total branded fuel. And 8p more than the Esso branded fuel near to my work. I don't think the claimed 2% fuel saving seems so good.
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Shell 'Fuelsave' - Zero
