Don't crash the swear filter, but should the article on page 14 of this weeks Auto Express be given any credence?
It is not online yet but the headline is "KIA vows to eclipse VW as quality king".
Also the new Sportage test, a Qashqai competitor for Mrs Humph D'bout to try?
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 28 Jul 10 at 15:36
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They are missing the word "perceived". "Perceived quality king" would be a much more worthwhile goal for sales success. A Kia Cee'd may well already be better built and more durable than a Golf, but in the minds of the majority of the buying public, it is not in the same league.
Perception and image are things that are only part product led, and take more than a generation of decent products to bring up to speed. Skodas are every bit as well built and finished as VWs or even Audis these days, but again perception says they are not.
Volkswagen products haven't been significantly better quality than their competitors for a decade or more, but their long nurtured reputation, clever marketing, and very skilful choice of cabin materials and design all conspire to keep the buying public coming back for more, despite most models falling mid table (at best), and behind far cheaper opposition in the customer satisfaction surveys.
I'm not knocking Volkswagen. I own two of them and am very happy, but its the image and perception of their products that Kia need to work on.
Last edited by: DP on Wed 28 Jul 10 at 16:18
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2 cars coming down the shoot at the auction
which one gets more interest today
tomorrow
next week
next year
next century
ask yourself are you feeling lucky before you answer
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>> ask yourself are you feeling lucky before you answer
>>
Immaterial to me, I don't have to earn a crust ducking and diving on car deals. When I have finished with my car, if it is worth a few quid its a bonus.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 28 Jul 10 at 16:37
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i put the question to the house though
i personally feel that you think a kia seed is the best thing since the wheel was invented
:-)
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We will all find out when it has done 100K and is worth 10p. :-) I just don't give a toss about a badge, your livelihood depends on it.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 28 Jul 10 at 17:03
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I agree that perception is everthing, I owned a MK2 Jetta and a SEAT cordoba estate, both for 100,000 miles, and my last car was a MK2 Focus. The cee'd is not quite there on interior quality, but it is very close. I think the engineering quality is superior to my previous cars.
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I'm not certain that VW are percieved that well in this country by those who have worked on them.
They along with other German cars had a big boost in the DIY maintenance market 20 or more years ago when Eurocarparts and GSF grew alongside which gave DIY motorists access to OE quality parts at decent prices, something we didn't really get with other foreign makes.
Where they did score well was in paintwork quality, thinking here of Mk1 and 2 Golf which had layers of quality paint and coupled with access to good parts meant a competent DIYer could keep their motors going for many years for reasonable cost.
Not many other substantial small Diesels in those days either, they had their faults, they were as noisy as hell and most came without power steering meaning you ended up running the front tyres at around 40psi to be able to park them.
They would however stand a lot of thrashing and were very economical, quite a good buy for those of us that had to provide for our families.
They didn't last forever though, and they needed just as much maintenance and parts replacements as any other to keep them going, but compared to say a Renault 21 Diesel which i owned and as was every bit as good as a Passat, but parts were ridiculously expensive from the dealer and difficult to obtain as Euro didn't cater for them in quite the same way in those days, i don't know if thats the same now but cars are no longer user maintainable in quite the same way.
If Kia keep their dealers on their toes, and make a point of looking after their customers they will soon along with Hyundai be the brand for the private new car buyer in many peoples eyes, and i wish them the very best.
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you must live in a different county to me GB
People over here in my area who would buy a vw for its perceived social status will not by a kia just like no way would they buy a hyundai
same in the second hand parc advertise a vw and you get people viewing who have either already owned a previous vw or have been in one or aspire to one
advertise a kia and you get people on a budget
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>> People over here in my area who would buy a vw for its perceived social
>> status will not by a kia just like no way would they buy a hyundai
Ah the great British public, polish a turd stick the right badge on it and they'll queue up to pay through the nose for it.
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you cant beat marketing a turd right
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you cant beat marketing a turd right
By calling it a Tu'rd ?
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>>
>> By calling it a Tu'rd ?
>>
At least mine is a shiny silver Tu'rd.
I once owned a British Leyland turd coloured car, at least it hid the rust for a while. :-)
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>>Ah the great British public, polish a turd stick the right badge on it and they'll queue up to pay through the nose for it.
In Europe in the 80's Citroen used the badge TRD on their turbo diesels...this was changed to DTR in the UK because of the closeness to turd!
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Renault offered a trim level on most models called RTS. Strangely not on the Clio though.....;)
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...If Kia keep their dealers on their toes...
You could simply say 'if Kia keep their dealers'.
Around here, they chop and change, which gives the brand a 'here today, gone tomorrow' reputation.
Like it or not, but the Ford place has got pictures in the foyer of Model-Ts on the same site.
Permanence, which to many people is closely associated with reliability.
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i think the ford dealer in darlington used to have pictures of old t models up too ifithelps
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A bit more modern, but the big Ford dealership in Aylesbury had a very low mileage mk2 Escort RS2000 in their showroom when I was last there, admittedly a few years ago - a car they had supplied new. It does give a certain comfort factor.
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>> a car they had supplied new. It does give a certain comfort
>> factor.
>>
If it's anything like some of the dealers I have come across it was probably serviced by an unsupervised apprentice. If it was lucky enough to get more than an oil change.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 28 Jul 10 at 17:13
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>> If it's anything like some of the dealers I have come across it was probably
>> serviced by an unsupervised apprentice. If it was lucky enough to get more than an
>> oil change.
More from the permanence side, ON. A dealership that's been trading successfully for 30 years+ from the same site, is pretty likely to still be there 30+ years from now, unless someone really screws up. A dealership that sprung open yesterday....who knows?
Last edited by: DP on Wed 28 Jul 10 at 19:00
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The outfit I bought my car from have been family owned in the town since 1840, starting off as engineers and millwrights, and progressing to traction engines and farm machinery. They have been Nissan dealers since 1992, and KIA since 2003. They seem to know what they are doing so hopefully will survive any economic turbulence.
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Won't at least some of these dealerships be established garages that have sold other brands but switched to Kia, or added Kia to what they offer.
There's a garage in Richmond (Yorks) where I filled up recently and they had five brands of new car in the window; Scooby, Isuzu, Kia, Daihatsu and Sangyong, which I thought had gone to the great manufacturer in the sky.
There are plenty of long established dealerships with rotten reputations, as there are manufacturers, so I don't buy the "been here 30 years" arguement.
JH
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Why not? "The Material World" had a plastics expert on a few years ago. He reckoned that the perceived difference in the quality of plastics used in the interior of cars had nothing to do with the cost of the plastic used and everything to do with the design. So there's one area of "quality" that can be improved at no cost. As for other areas, I would dispute that VW is quality king. I'm happy with my Passat but "king" is an awfully big word.
If they're giving a 7 year warranty then they are going to build so they get minimum costs in those 7 years - that will show in perceived quality. Just don't own an 8 year old one! :-)
JH
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>> If they're giving a 7 year warranty then they are going to build so they
>> get minimum costs in those 7 years - that will show in perceived quality.
Thanks TS that's one of the most sensible views which i happen to share, and neither of us own one...yet.
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>>>There's a garage in Richmond (Yorks) where I filled up recently and they had five brands of new car in the window; Scooby, Isuzu, Kia, Daihatsu and Sangyong, which I thought had gone to the great manufacturer in the sky.
Bought my Subaru from a dealership that also has Mitsubishi, Lotus, Alfa and Morgan. When you ring for service thay always ask which brand but its the same lady service receptionist covering all brands. I guess some of the engineers specialise?
Near my work - Subaru, Skoda and Isuzu having lost/got rid of Sangyong and MG franchises. Specialising in just the three!
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>> Bought my Subaru from a dealership that also has Mitsubishi, Lotus, Alfa and Morgan. When
>> you ring for service thay always ask which brand but its the same lady service
>> receptionist covering all brands. I guess some of the engineers specialise?
Nah, thats only so they can vary the price.
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AutoExpress for 21st - 27th July have got a VW Tiguan in for a full strip down to component parts on page 78-79. After running for 60k miles, they stripped it to component parts and examined for wear and tear.
"No major issues - Few cars have emerged with such a clean bill of health from our stripdown ..."
On the 2.0 TSi engine they commented "come our end of test stripdown, it was as fit as it was on the day it left the factory. It looks as if it has only just been run in, was our expert's verdict".
Niggles they found included a creaky gearlever which they traced to lack of lubrication at the base of the gearlever. They then went on to strip the gearbox down and commented "but the rest of the gearbox was in prime condition - much like the engine, which was praised for its lack of wear".
On the interior they said "Even after 60,000 miles, there were no creaks, clatters or fraying carpets inside, as the cabin trim passed the test with flying colours"
They concluded "it's not often our experts are left scratching around for things to say, but that speaks volumes for the Tiguan's durability".
Their main picture is of all the components neatly laid out on a white studio floor / background, i'm surprised by how many parts i recognise shared with my Skoda!
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>>I'm surprised by how many parts i recognise shared with my Skoda!
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I'm not!
I was put off VW by an early Sharan - by far the most unreliable car I've ever owned. Various french cars I've run have been far better. We now have a T5 camper which has not been faultless, but there is something about VW which inspires confidence. It's the perceived quality/marketing.
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It's the feel of solidity, the thickness of the paint, and the materials used in the interior that make it feel like VW's are going to be a paragon of reliability. I like them, but they are certainly not the most reliable of cars. My mechanic feels that VW's are a better buy over the equivalent Skoda or Seat, I've asked him why, and he reckons they're better quality, He doesn't like the fact Seats are built in Spain. I'm not so sure, they all have the same components underneath. I think a lot of it has to do with how the dealers treat the customer, and the expectations of the product.
Auto Express did a strip down on a Toyota Avensis and found quite a few faults. But it depends to some extent on how that particular car has been treated. There must be thousands of Avensis's (Avensi?), my dads included, that have been faultless. It's interesting to see just how many bits there are though when you lay them out!
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Given modern oils and timely servicing, I suspect most modern engines are barely worn at 60k. Fuelling is so precise nowadays, and the ecu program can stop an engine being driven beyond safe limits. Both my cars are over 100k and neither need so much as an oil top up between services.
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I thought the VW "Squeaky ear rings" advert was brilliant.
Own up anyone who isn't influenced by marketing.
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According to the German TUEV report for 2010, the top 3 cars with the least faults were:
2 - 3 year olds
1. Porsche 911
2. Mazda 2
3. VW Golf Plus
4 - 5 year olds
1. VW Golf Plus
2. Toyota Corolla Verso
3. BMW 1 Series
And the bottom 3 cars with the most faults were:
2 - 3 years old:
123. Peugeot 407
124. Chrysler PT Cruiser
125. Kia Carnival
4 - 5 years old:
116. Peugeot 106
117. Renault Laguna
118. Kia Carnival
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VW (VAG) owners comments please. - DP
