Tonight coming back from Dover, I had the misfortune to be involved in the congestion caused by a crash on the M25 - obviously I hope those mentioned as injured (4) none are too criticial
But why did it mean the road was shut off from junction 6 - 8- ON both sides I understand- SURELY It can't have been over the whole 20 odd miles of road closed, it can only have been between 8-7 OR 6-7 not both - so why the closure.
I visited Clackett Lane( their hot chocolate was awful by the way) and remembered being shown how to cross over to the anti clockwise section - so this I did, hoping to go back down the M25 a21 Sevonokaks etc - but in the end just followed the road and let the satnav do the rest, which meant going through a one way sign into the staff car park - will I be expecting a fine or something ?
Anyway I'm glad I did as apparantly they weren't expecting the road to re open till after 11pm, and whilst it still took me 90 mins from Clackett to Weybridge, due to all the roads being clogged up I am now home and its beer o'clock.
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>> shown how to cross over to the anti clockwise section - so this I did,
>> hoping to go back down the M25 a21 Sevonokaks etc - but in the end
>> just followed the road and let the satnav do the rest, which meant going through
>> a one way sign into the staff car park - will I be expecting a
>> fine or something ?
I think its an offence, and there may be a camera there. Both are "maybes"
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...Both are maybes...
I don't know the patch, but a service area staff car park sounds like private land to me.
If so, the likes of 'No Entry' signs have no legal force for the purpose of a moving traffic offence.
Similar situation to going the 'wrong way' in a supermarket car park.
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I think the offence is unauthorised use of a motorway service access.
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Probably the best thing to do is to cover your number plates for the duration of the transit. IIRC the penalty for failure to display number plate is not endorsable and only a low fine:) but can they get you for conspiracy to pervert............?
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Strangely enough this reminds me of my latest trip in Germany... I was on the way back from the Nurburgring and ended up being diverted by roadworks... the Satnav directed me back to the autobahn via the rear (ungated) entrance to the services off a very minor road... I did wonder where it was sending me!... I sneaked in, no-one batted an eyelid and I carried on down the autobahn... the strange part was that the satnav actually directed me down that route... I wonder if the regulations are different in Germany to Britain?
Last edited by: hobby on Wed 28 Jul 10 at 21:07
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>> unauthorised use of a motorway service access.
Just a couple of years hung upside down in a dungeon with not much very bad food then?
Luxury!
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I've always found the word "offence" in a legal context to be more or less inadequate. What I mean is that some offences are not actually offensive really, they are just against the law, while some could not be so politely described at all, some of those would be better described as outrages. I find offences being described as offences a bit offensive in some cases. Hope I haven't offended anyone.
Last edited by: Humph D'bout on Wed 28 Jul 10 at 21:02
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...I think the offence is unauthorised use of a motorway service access...
OK, it's not one I've heard of, but I don't doubt it exists.
I used to change carriageways at Strensham services on the M5.
There was a gate onto a public lane from both the north and southbound areas, and the bridge over the motorway was part of a local B-road.
Lots of No Entry signs, but the only problem was when one of the gates was shut.
Of course, me not being prosecuted doesn't mean no offence was carried out.
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>> no offence was carried out.
Orders and plans are carried out. Offences are committed.
Er, no offfence.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Wed 28 Jul 10 at 21:08
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...or alleged until proven I suppose.....
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Hung screaming from the thumbs until dead for this one, I imagine.
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>> Hung screaming from the thumbs until dead for this one, I imagine.
>>
Thought you were going to say somthing else there AF, shrivelled instantly.
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Minibus crash was the cause according to the radio.Luckily I was not in it and said to SWMBO why do they have to close it both ways between 6 and 8.
The other problem was that the crash not only affected the M25 but also the M23 which is Junction 7 of the M25 and carries all the Gatwick traffic..... I regularly use the M23
90 % of the northbound traffic which normally goes onto the M25 would therefore have ended up on the A23 in Hooley and Coulsdon where the motorway three lanes become one.....
I can only imagine the chaos and gridlock over all of Kent Surrey , Sussex and South London as a result of this closure.
Coming after the problems of last Thursday where the M25 was blocked anti clockwise going on half of its circumference it makes local knowledge of the back lanes vital in getting around these days.
We have had this argument before many times but who takes responsibility for these closures and why can they not be dealt with much more quickly?
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Interesting comparrison that on the railways if there is a fatality the BTP are given two hours to investigate and get the line back open, anything over that and they are fined... I reckon it cocentrates the mind somewhat and I've not known them overshoot that limit... whilst two hours may be too short for a crash investigation perhaps something similar could be introduced on the roads?
Last edited by: hobby on Thu 29 Jul 10 at 09:32
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What exactly police investigate in these circumstances for which they have to close the whole traffic??
From newspaper, no one died and 2 persons were to be rescued by cutting metal. That could have been achieved by keeping at least one lane open. Isn't it?
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Trains are sightly different, you could have 6 trains backed up, 1200 people where its a pig to evacuate them.
But then you know my stance on road closures, shovel the mess to one side and get the traffic flowing again.
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Discussed here - plu a couple of amusing anecdotes from Lud and Humph. www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=68548
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>> Trains are sightly different,
The principal is the same, though, Zero... I think they do need some sort of firm guides on how long they can keep a road shut for, at the momonet it just seems like they do whatever they feel like and stuff the consequences...
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>> But then you know my stance on road closures, shovel the mess to one side
>> and get the traffic flowing again.
Absolutely. The whole investigation and attribution of blame is a complete waste of the time of people whose days are destroyed. Imagine 10,000 cars held up for 5 hours, that's probably 100,000 wasted man hours.
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The police crash investigators have to justify their job. What would you rather do, collect crash details and spend time in the office analysing it, or be out sorting out drunks and criminals?
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>> Imagine 10,000 cars held up for 5 hours, that's probably 100,000 wasted man hours.
>>
Apart from anything, there must be a public health issue after a pretty short time, with people unable to go to the toilet, get water etc.
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Going back to the original topic, if my deliveries panned out in a certain order in the Epping Forest area, my satnav used to direct me on to the M25 via a tucked-away back road:
bit.ly/aOIzd0
I never had the nerve to drive down it though, even though the gate was never closed.
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>>>Going back to the original topic, if my deliveries panned out in a certain order in the Epping Forest area, my satnav used to direct me on to the M25 via a tucked-away back road:<<<
IIRC that is used by the Police to 'change direction ' on the M25. Probably a chance that you whistle up the slip to find a police car parked at the top, eating donuts and coffee! ;)
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There seem to be four sets of such slip roads around the M11/M25 interchange, I've been on the M25 before and seen plod parked up them. I used to approach this particular one from the south along the minor road which goes over the bridge, my next stop was back to base right up the top of the M11 so the satnav thought this way was preferable to hacking across country up to M11 J7.
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Of course, IF the Government were serious about CO2 emissions, car jams on motorways are a no-no...and they would get the police to move them on smartish...
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M25 crash the whole system stops - Zero
