We were staying in Krakow for the 2nd time, it's a cracking place to be. 33 degrees C last week but Scottish like weather this week (rain! ~18 degrees).
Not that i was looking or anything but you don't really get any ugly girls, everyone's 5-6 stars or above, probably a lot to do with there being noone overweight below 40 years old -- size 6 most common, size 8 common, 10 rare, 12 or above i could count on one hand.
Most popular manufacturer by volume is probably Fiat, the newer fiats were all pandas and 500s which i know are made just along the road in Tychy, so i'm guessing the older Fiats we saw were previous models made there too. I don't recognise any of the older Fiats (90's & 00's models) as being sold in the UK.
Fiat seems to be loosing its dominance to Skoda now which is a close 2nd place in terms of volume but of all new cars in Krakow 4 in 5 seem to be Skodas so it seems it will overtake Fiat shortly.
Cars seem to be able to be preserved for much longer. In the first few days i was shocked when i saw an almost showroom fresh Peugeot 405 but after a while it became normal to see 80's VW Passats looking pretty respectable.
Not all old cars are in such good nick, most are pretty worn looking, just i was surprised that any could be preserved through the winters they get (last winter hit -25 to -30 depending on who was telling the story).
Everything has collision damage. Everything! It's a bit disheartening really, brand new fiat 500 with scuffed bumpers, opel astras with scrapes along the length of the sides etc etc
Apparently Poland has one of the worst driving safety records in the world.
Roads are built to a lower specification than the UK. I expect you could do 40 miles of Krakow roads for the price of 1 mile of a UK spec road. Construction seems to be 1) make the path kinda smooth 2) lay some type 1 hardcore, but scrimp on it like it's gold dust, lucky if there was 2 inches of the stuff 3) lay tarmac over 4) job done.
There's little to no drainage and the poor foundations mean the tarmac settles in an undulating fashion so water doesn't run off anyway. Krakow sees heavy rain at certain times of the year so you can imagine what the roads are like then.
Special roadsigns are abundant, diamonds telling you have right of way or with strikes through telling you dont. I dont know if i follow the purpose of these. They're either stating the bleeding obvious or they're used to override right of way so that a small road takes priority at an intersection with a large road somewhere -- never seen that though, just thinking out loud as to why this system might exist.
Noone will flash anyone out, however if you force your way out first noone will complain so long as you were there first. When in rome... drive defensively with your heart in your mouth sometimes but to be honest they're all so predictable that it's not really that big a stress to drive around once you get over the initial shock.
Noone can drive past their windscreen. Traffic lights at red or tram crossing the road ahead of the car in front will see the car 2 back accelerating like a lunatic until the brake lights come on in the car in front -- despite it being crystal clear for the past 100metres what's about to happen!
We were in a couple of Taxis, all were well past use by dates. One an early 00's VW passat had all the brake warning lights up on the dash, some flashing some solid, and the info display was flashing between normal display and STOP taking up the whole display. The driver didn't use the handbrake and stopped the engine and put the car in gear (handbrake off) when we stopped so i guess the rear calipers were stuffed. Didn't stop him barrelling towards busy junctions at 90kmh around town though.
Road rage isn't as common as i thought it would be given the type of driving, it's just accepted that everyone drives like that and noone gets too hot under the collar about it, or at least we didn't witness it.
Krakow is great. Tram network is excellent, modern buses are great (aircon) in the hot weather. People are distinctively un british in their ways but you adapt fairly quickly -- one thing that seems to guarantee a smile is to speak polish rather than english. I can only manage basic polish, i'm not quite conversational yet but i'm not exactly a beginner either (studying for 3 years on and off, more off that on if honest).
Krakow is expensive for poland, but even at that it's 2/3rds of the price of the UK.
95ron 4,50zl = ~90pence, 98ron 4,80zl = ~96 pence per litre. Diesel 88pence / litre. LPG is very common in Krakow, plenty of cars with LPG fillers visible and plenty of petrol stations with LPG pumps, ~42 pence / litre.
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So many Polish cars round here, but they always seem to be in good condition but if they can make the 1000+ plus journey to Manchester they would have to be.
Polish FIATs were made in Tychy (where the Panda/500/Ka is made) some of them were sold in the UK. The last Polish model was the 126 but I think they had more modern engines in the UK versions.
Now Tychy just makes 'world' cars but European spec in general seems to be lower than the UKs.
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>> So many Polish cars round here, but they always seem to be in good condition
>> but if they can make the 1000+ plus journey to Manchester they would have to
>> be.
>>
Rattle, you seem to have a problem with distance, I expect to put almost a thousand miles on my car this weekend, Its what cars are designed to do.
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But your car is not a 20 year old rust bucket I imagine the OP is refering to here. I would not want to do a 1000 mile journey in a 10 year old Passat with no rear brakes which is what the OP is saying a lot of Polish cars are like.
And yes my car was not used all last weekend but then my last weekend was unusualy busy too.
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>> The last Polish model was the 126
There was another Fiat that's got me racking my brains. It looks identical to a lada riva but it has some plastic vents on the bonnet which say Fiat.
I remember reading on here that Lada Riva's were effectively an old Fiat design bought by Lada. So i'm wondering was this car a really old fiat, or just someone who decided to tart up a Lada with some fiat trim?
Anyone know what fiat model the Rivas were based on? And were the fiat model better than the Lada model? (must have been!)
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The model you are thinking of is the Polski Fiat 125p. The only car where its model designation was also its retail price.
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>> There was another Fiat that's got me racking my brains. It looks identical to a
>> lada riva but it has some plastic vents on the bonnet which say Fiat.
>>
>> I remember reading on here that Lada Riva's were effectively an old Fiat design bought
>> by Lada. So i'm wondering was this car a really old fiat, or just someone
>> who decided to tart up a Lada with some fiat trim?
>>
>> Anyone know what fiat model the Rivas were based on? And were the fiat model
>> better than the Lada model? (must have been!)
>>
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>>Not that i was looking or anything but you don't really get any ugly girls, everyone's 5-6 stars or above<<
Any chance of bringing one back for our kid op north then, say about 25-35, 38dx24x36,
preferably a one owner low mileage model with no rust in the chassis.
:-D
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it would be left unused in hs lockup while he got drunk at clubs.
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>> it would be left unused in hs lockup while he got drunk at clubs.<<
Perhaps he'd be better orf with one of these then ~ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_doll
Last edited by: smokie on Thu 29 Jul 10 at 23:58
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"you don't really get any ugly girls"
That's extremely true. Why do you think I moved here?
Girls outnumber boys in Poland, I forget the ratio, but you can see it at the supermarkets. Really hot chicks with bug-ugly husbands. Polish men all look like Shrek. A lot of my wife's friends are single even though they're well do-able.
The problems occur when the Polish girls turn 55, they gain a stone for every year and dress like scarecrows. Exhibit A: My mother-in-law.
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Thats my answer then, move my Panda to Poland and move there. Maybe I could do a job swap work in Subway in Warsaw.
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Plenty of work in Warsaw if you can lapdance Rattle
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I can't do that, but I do have some experience of fixing PCs in the Polish language. I found my Polish customers very easy to work with never had a problem regarding prices of getting paid. The only problem is sometimes the langauge barrier if they have Polish applications.
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>> The problems occur when the Polish girls turn 55, they gain a stone for every
>> year and dress like scarecrows. Exhibit A: My mother-in-law.
>>
I don't care how big, bad, and hairy snip you are, I bet your MIL does not read this forum, or your Mrs.
Last edited by: Webmaster on Wed 4 Aug 10 at 01:11
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Another thing to remember about Poland is never take your eyes of it because it will disappear.Here in Germany if we cannot find something the answer is its probably in Poland.And there are no real border controls anymore its the same with the Chech Republic. I often go over the border at Bad Moskau but alaways leave the car in a secure car park on the German side.
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"Another thing to remember about Poland is never take your eyes of it because it will disappear."
I live on a secure gated road and we have security patrols. I carry a blipper and can alert them from anywhere I am on the street. I have panic buttons in my bedroom and living room. I have a steel vault for a front door that shoots out 13 inch-thick bolts in every direction when it's locked and metal shutters that roll down on all the windows and patio doors. It's as thief-proof as you can get.
You know what got stolen last year? My doorbell.
Poles will nick anything.
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>> I live on a secure gated road and we have security patrols
We went to stay with some of Monika's family one night, they're pretty well off -- live in one of the more desirable areas just on the edge of Krakow. When we arrived i was taken aback with the amount of security. Every house was fenced off with metal 6ft fences (although they were decorative rather than industrial spikey ones) and secure entry gates.
It had been the same story the whole journey there, every house once you got outside the city centre and the first ring of suburbs, every house had proper security. All carried wee placards on their fences, telling this area was protected by Juventus, or Justus or Solid security.
We got up to the front door past the big gates and it wasn't far off what BBD describes.
Was too polite to ask, why all the security, is it really that bad? Obvious answer is it must be, but still hard to get my head around.
I want remote controlled entrance gates on my house now. They're seriously cool. Don't fancy the idea that armed numpties are prowling about outside right enough. All these gates etc. but no security lighting?!
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I am very surprised things are like that! We've visited the Czech Republic many times and its nothing like your description of Poland despite being alongside it... I'd often thought of going but am having doubts now!
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>> I'd often thought of going but am having doubts now!
It's worth the visit.
We booked into what's supposedly the worst area in Krakow, Nowa Huta (we didn't know, we'd stayed in the same hotel last time and we really liked it so we rebooked without question...). It's an old communist built area and it's pretty poor. Although the buildings are grey and dour, they're in reasonable state of repair, and it's pretty nice for being a poor area -- leafy big wide streets lined with huge green trees. Pretty alright if you ask me...
Anyways, point was that even in supposedly the worst bit in town we always felt safe enough and there were no issues going for late night wanders to try and cool down.
In the town square there were some gypsies begging and being rubbish at picking pockets (comically bad pick pockets... they need to go to rome for some training!)
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"I'd often thought of going but am having doubts now"
Don't get the wrong idea, the security measures are all preventative, it is a wonderful, friendly, welcoming country and you'd have to be really really unlucky to get into any trouble. You're far more likely to get stabbed my a teenager in Dulwhich for asking them to move along, than to to get any aggro at all in Poland.
The people are great, the culture is rich and fascinating and most of the year it's baking hot. I've been made to feel so welcome - someone left a bottle of wine outside my door the other week, and they're always leaving chocolates and gifts for the kids.
The blokes all congregate on the street on Saturday nights when it's hot, someone turns the car stereo on and we drink till the early hours, or till the wives drag us away. I can't think of anywhere I'd rather live.
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Comments which rather goes against the need for all the "protection"... Just seems that one contradicts the other...
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"Comments which rather goes against the need for all the "protection""
Nothing unusual about contradictions. Look at the UK. For all the bright and beautiful people you meet on your daily commute there'll be someone existing at a barely sub-human level, putting fags out on a toddler.
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Dave, I hear what you are saying, but the description both you and the other poster gives does not really compare with what I see in the UK... I agree there are "bad" people everywhere, but other than the super rich I haven't seen the need for the sort of protection you mention for people living over here...
I tend to think that you are starting to get defensive, so I'll try and get over some time and make my own mind up... however a visit to the Czech Republic is next on the cards so it won't be this year!
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I think by calling it protection, it gives it a sinister slant that is misleading.
I'm really only trying to give an impression of how seriously a modern Polish household take their home security - it doesn't necessarily follow that there is a high crime rate - only that there is certainly some. I've actually no idea how it compares to the UK or anywhere else in Europe to be honest.
It's the difference in mindset that is fascinating. And it's the point where you say "only the super rich need that kind of protection" that really illuminates this point. Anyone of us could find ourselves the victim of burglary, and we all have the right to secure our homes. It's an horrific experience I'm sure, however rich you might be, with the violation and the loss of property. Do you remember the guy on HJ who had both his cars stolen by a gang that threw concrete through his patio doors late one evening while he was watching telly with his family? The question is, what can you do about it. And to Poles, the answer is quite a lot.
Why go through that kind of horror when you never have to. Our security blinds cost less than my car insurance premium. The front door would stop a rhino. Why worry about disinterested police when for a tenner a month you can have your own security patrol linked to your burglar alarm. Why even shell out year on year for theft insurance, when you know that no one could ever enter your property.
That's how they see it and I have to say, I think they have the right idea, but I don't think it's particularly indicative of a high crime rate. Do come see for yourself Hobby, if you like the Czech Republic, you won't be disappointed.
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Perhaps the modern Polish obsession with house security is based on now quite long - but still living - memories of a time when large areas of Poland were trashed and Jews, then most other people, were robbed and brutalised as a matter of course. The Czechs would have similar memories.
I wouldn't suggest that was the entire explanation, but it may have something to do with it. Disputed territories over long periods... I wouldn't be surprised if Belgians favoured decent door locks.
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>> Do
>> come see for yourself Hobby, if you like the Czech Republic, you won't be disappointed.
>>
Think you're right about a different mindset! I will try as I do like it over in central Europe...
Re the blinds, my Czech and German friends have said that they are there mainly to keep the rooms cool during hot weather rather than for protection, though they do have that ability as well... certainly my experience of them is that they do keep a room cool! Something that could be useful over here at times!
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I could take you to any part of london, where modest houses and flats have steel grilles and shutters for windows and doors. In some areas its a pre requisite for home insurance.
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"they are there mainly to keep the rooms cool during hot weather"
Yeah they do, and they don't let any light in whatsoever so great for watching F1 on a sunny afternoon!
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.... Exhibit A: My mother-in-law...
And you know what they say about daughters turning out like their mothers.
Merry Christmas. :)
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>> Any chance of bringing one back for our kid op north then
Rattle you could do worse than get yourself to the local polish beginners lessons classes the polish club in manchester will no doubt run.
Don't worry, you'll have pulled in Manchester before you ever need to think about logging on to easyjet.com ;-)
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Think Ryanair do most cheap flights over there!
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>> There was another Fiat that's got me racking my brains.
>>It looks identical to a lada riva but it has some plastic vents on the bonnet which say Fiat.
That would be the original... car of the year 1966, disk brakes all round...
FIAT 124.
I thought they had all rusted away.
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Polski fiat based on the fiat 1500 what a lovely car .
Ladas(who made the 124) I believe are Russian and are excellent sellers in Europe with a good model range.
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>> Ladas(who made the 124) I believe are Russian
correct
>>and are excellent sellers in Europe
nope
>>with a good model range.
nope
www.lada.de/modelle.html
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Love the underbonnet pic on the LADA Niva.
No can of gunge if you get a puncture.
It really hasn't changed since LADA left the UK,
Last edited by: Lygonos on Thu 29 Jul 10 at 23:12
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Whereas Manchester, Stockport and Surrounding area are safe for all of us:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-10808704
Edit as you see fit mods... I find this story surprising to be honest.
EDIT: A prize for the mod that removes if necessary overnight.... so that's VXFAN then. Or maybe PU.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 30 Jul 10 at 01:25
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Ha, it looks like it might be a little safer now he's taken out 2 people 'known to police'.
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he will either get caught for another, as he is now cocky or hopefully done in himself.
Business Man! yeah right.
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>> We were staying in Krakow
Not far from the site of Auschwitz - Birkenau. Did you pay it a visit?
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Random notes on motoring in Poland - RattleandSmoke
