Why is it that any write ups on present day diesels in the press and on motoring forums always appear to mention faults with clutches and DMFs.
Is this due to design? Small number of manufacturers supplying many marques with the same things? or less durable materials?
If there are so many early failures and problems across the board, and these have been identified by the manufacturers, why don't they tackle the problem and get it sorted. It seems there are numerous stories on many forums about the ease with which these fail yet it isn't being addressed properly.
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How many modern diesels have DMFs? Out of those how many fail?
Is there really a widespread issue to fix?
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Well mine was replaced on my Altea at 3 years old and someone I spoke to said there had been so many issues with these that Seat / VAG had dropped them from new ranges. Is that correct?
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When you consider the number of cars and the starship mileage some do I would have thought the problems are minimal
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then you can assume it was ok. I wonder how many are changed for no good reason
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so whats wrong with it then????
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well if changing it didnt fix it, it wasnt it was it.
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unless the replacement is faulty also....
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given they only go with use, its unlikely.
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...the number of cars and the starship mileage some do I would have thought the problems are minimal...
I've done a total of 90,000 trouble-free miles in two diesel Focuses, both with DPFs and DMFs.
The Focus must be the most common car in Britain, yet I don't see the roadside littered with expired ones.
I don't think these components break as often as some people would have you believe.
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I honestly don't know what it is but the mechanic came out in the car, heard and "felt" the noise, immediately said DMF, Seat immediately approved the warranty work and total bill was £1400 including replacing the steering rack.
Don't know if Seat would have agrred to the warranty work so quickly unless they knew it was a known issue?
I now have a car out of (manufacture) warranty, a £1400 warranty repair that has made no difference. Will need to get up off my backside and go back to dealer and put some pressure on them but can't see Seat authorising more work now that the car is out of their warranty!
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...a £1400 warranty repair that has made no difference...
Bobby,
So what's wrong with the car?
Apologies if I've missed something in the thread, but I don't think we've been told.
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Sorry iffy, wasn't meaning to hijack this thread!
When manoeuvring at low speeds there is a vibration / noise that comes up from the clutch that you feel right up your leg. Gets worse the more you turn the wheel. Also worse when the car is cold.
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Mmm, not ideal, but sort of liveable with.
Frustrating, I imagine.
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That sounds like plain old fashioned clutch judder to me BG, wrongly diagnosed as DMF failure.
The usual things to check are engine mountings, the routing of any control cables [accelerator and clutch], contamination of the clutch running surfaces [I imagine OK, as the clutch has been renewed], any sticking in the release mechanism, and I'm sure one or two other faults that I've missed.
It's a fault that is made worse by even a slight misfire from the engine - the type of misfire that is so slight the ECU will not register it. EGR blanking [for test purposes!] can also be helpful.
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Its not judder as such NC, have experienced that in previous cars and that is not what is happening. Its hard to explain, its a sort of whirring "dull " noise, not really grinding, knocking, judder etc.
Think I might get back in contact with dealer on Monday. A few days after I picked it up from its repair I went back to them and explained it was still there and as bad as ever (I think its actually getting worse now). Mechanic guy said to me with what they had done so far, they really didn't know what else it could be . He was trying to suggest that with the full clutch replaced, it couldn't be anything to do with that. And with the steering rack replaced, there couldn't be anything blamed on the steering.
They did say though they would note my visit on my file in case it got worse...
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He was trying to suggest that with the
>> full clutch replaced, it couldn't be anything to do with that. And with the steering
>> rack replaced, there couldn't be anything blamed on the steering.
Hopefully they'll change the wiper motor and the bootlock too in case anyone thinks they might be at fault;)
Sorry BG but that sounds dreadful, as if they are changing things willy nilly till they happen to alight upon the cure by pure chance, jolly glad they're not fixing the car at your expense.
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could be anything in the drive train, or the engine mountings.
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As I mentioned in t'other thread, catalysed cars are fairly new to me. However, as the token "knowledgeable friend" who gets questioned about others' car problems all the time, it seems that a lot of sensors are made from spit and chewing gum, by the frequency with which they expire.
Most manufacturers seem to have got the oily bits right now, it's the additional extras (electric mirrors, pixels in screens etc) that fail these days in my experience.
And my contribution to the DMF discussion above: I ran one of a fleet of 10 Octavia SDis for 4 years and over 300,000 miles in the early 2000s. Flywheel failure was not something any of us encountered - gearboxes at circa 200,000 miles, yes, but flywheels no.
Last edited by: Dave_TD {P} on Sat 31 Jul 10 at 21:11
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>> someone I spoke to said there had been so many issues with these that Seat / VAG had
>> dropped them from new ranges. Is that correct?
No and no.
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>> How many modern diesels have DMFs? Out of those how many fail?
>>
>> Is there really a widespread issue to fix?
>>
Hang on a sec, the other week you implied that anyone with a DMF was doomed to eternal damnation of failing flywheels...
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...Hang on a sec, the other week you implied that anyone with a DMF was doomed to eternal damnation of failing flywheels...
I expect Zero was trying to wind me up - he's secretly jealous of the CC3 and would like one himself really.
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VW have ditched DMFs on some of their diesel commercials due to unacceptable failure rates and warranty claims. I'm also told that VW do have quite a few issues with DMF failures in general, particularly on the PD engines which give these things quite a hard time.
This information comes from a VW tech mate. He's a pragmatic sort of chap, and I have no reason to disbelieve it.
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>> VW have ditched DMFs on some of their diesel commercials due to unacceptable failure rates
Given that diesel commercials are working vehicles, why would you want A DMF on one in the first place, assuming the main reason is refinement? I would have thought longevity/cheap to run is more important.
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>> I expect Zero was trying to wind me up - he's secretly jealous of the
>> CC3 and would like one himself really.
What *do* you smoke up there in leafy north yorkshire?
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>> I expect Zero was trying to wind me up - he's secretly jealous of the
>> CC3 and would like one himself really.
>>
No, he's a closet cee'd admirer.
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In direct answer to the title of this thread;
DPF's, DMF's, MAF sensors, crank and cam position sensors, road springs, ECU's, clutch slave cylinder/release bearing assemblies, cam timing adjuster units, auto gearboxes, lamps with condensation in, LED's in lamps failing - requiring lamp replacement where once a bulb would do, steering angle sensors, hi pressure diesel pumps, yaw sensors, dash clusters, turbo's...
That's a few of the items I see being replaced every day, most over £100 per part less labour, and many on that list over £1000.
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I can see where you're coming from, Swiss Tony, but all the faults you listed above will by sheer weight of numbers affect some cars. However, the statistical likelihood of any of them failing is tiny, and it's unfortunately just bad luck if it happens to you. As I said, there are millions of cars on the road.
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>> I can see where you're coming from, Swiss Tony, but all the faults you listed
>> above will by sheer weight of numbers affect some cars. However, the statistical likelihood of
>> any of them failing is tiny, and it's unfortunately just bad luck if it happens
>> to you. As I said, there are millions of cars on the road.
>>
The word 'tiny' does not come into it.
I promise you these things fail a lot more often than you think.
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"I promise you these things fail a lot more often than you think. "
What is the basis (and evidence) for your promise?
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>> "I promise you these things fail a lot more often than you think. "
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>> What is the basis (and evidence) for your promise?
>>
Quantities held in stock by dealers, factors, and the vehicle manufacturers.
Don't believe the bull given when you have a failure
'Oh, never had one go before, but look your lucky we have one in stock'
if there's one in stock then they will sell a fair few.
of my list, I'd say MAF's and crank sensors are some of the best sellers, excepting service items, in a lot of dealers.
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>> Don't believe the bull given when you have a failure
>> 'Oh, never had one go before, but look your lucky we have one in stock'
TST go wash your mouth (keyboard) out with soap.;)
The LR dealer deserves an oscar for his performance at the astounding never before happened in the world event of Disco 2 gearbox failure on my mate's at the time.
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>> The word 'tiny' does not come into it.
>> I promise you these things fail a lot more often than you think.
>>
No matter how big your outfit is, or how many cars you fix a month, it is tiny compared to the number of cars on the road in the UK, Europe, or beyond.
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I still have credit debts for the stupid MAF I had to replace on my Corsa :(. I would say springs are another common fault. I also guess that bushes fail a lot more these days mostly due to poor road conditions.
If its French then the coil pack is probably the most common problem.
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>> I still have credit debts for the stupid MAF I had to replace on my Corsa
There's me thinking a MAF sensor is £30 or thereabouts. Shows I've not had to pay for repairs on anything since around 1996/97. Although my wife's Seicento has proved quite reliable. It's even been hit in three accidents (non fault for her) and wrote off a Mazda MX-5 once! Seicento needed a new wing, light, bumper and bonnet.
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They are for a cheap clone. But MAFs can be tricky to diagnose and on the Corsa forum a lot of people have trouble with the cheap ones failing. I decided to pay £85 for a Bosch one, which was still cheaper than £300 the VX dealer wanted. It completely transformed the way he car drove and I intended to keep the car for a few years but enough was enough when the HG went.
My lesson learnt was don't use the credit card for car parts as the debt will last longer than the car!
The Sceicento has exactly the same engine as my Panda but mine has a slightly more modern injection system (MPi). If the cambelt snaps it costs just £140 for a new one fitted at the main dealer, no need to worry about bent valves etc. How many modern engines can you say that about?
It will be a shame when the FIAT Fire is discontinued as it is probably the only simple engine you can still buy. Even the tappets are not hydraulic!
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>> My lesson learnt was don't use the credit card for car parts as the debt will last longer than the car!
Forgive me for being nosey/rude... but you've had the Panda for a bit now and the MAF was £85! How can there be any debt?
The Seicento we have is a 1.1 so I didn't think that was a FIRE engine. I'll double check.
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It will be the FIRE, unless its the ancient push rod unit but pretty sure it was faced out by then and they were less than 1000cc anyway.
Well I suppose the debt is paid off, but I used the credit card to pay for it, and if I didn't use it then I would have £85 extra in credit card balance if that makes sense.
All none push rod FIATs with small engines from 1985 until now are a variant of the FIRE but the multiair will change that.
If the sci has a big airbox over the engine then its the FIRE.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Tue 3 Aug 10 at 01:28
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Faults all too common today - Zero
