Well, last week I took delivery of my nemesis, the Golf MK7. Since its introduction over 3 years ago and early examination, I was put off my its complexities (from my point of view, anyway) and THAT electronic handbrake system.
But with my current MK6 Golf being in its 7th year of ownership I felt like a change and had been to so many dealerships of other makes and nothing quite came up to my expectations. Indeed I ideally wanted something higher off the ground to aid we oldies getting in and out more easily and the Golf SV seemed to fit those requirement but............
........over a fortnight ago I went into a VW dealership in Sevenoaks, Kent purely for something to do after a pub lunch nearby, just to have a look again at the Golf and Golf SV. I was apprehended by a salesperson and I told them my doubts about the electronic handbrake which has always been a bugbear of mine. I was asked whether I wanted a demo there and then so took them up on that and went out for a short run and found the system to work admirably.
I went back to the showroom and explained that I was after a Golf Match Edition in Reflex Silver with a 1.4TSI engine, manual transmission etc. Ideally, I would have liked one with Climate Control but when I was told that they had 3 cars in their system that fulfilled my requirement except for Climate, it shocked me.
After a few minutes talking to the manager, I was then told that they had one of these cars in their car park ready for purchase and so that was that - I placed a deposit there and then and picked it up on Thursday, last week, only 6 days later!
I am very pleased with my new car and am trying to get used to the complexities of the Infotainment system and all that goes with it. I was surprised that the recommended tyre pressures were so much higher (35psi) than on my old MK6 (same engine virtually) and the ride felt a bit hard but the pressures, as supplied, were higher than recommended at 38psi, so I have now reduced them to the recommend value and reset the TPMS. The ride is now much better.
Unfortunately the fitted tyres are Hankooks and not Michelin and the road noise level seems slightly higher than on my old MK6 but that may improve as they wear or run-in.
At the moment I think the car is superb but only time will tell. The Electronic handbrake allied with the AutoHold facility work superbly at the moment. The only thing that worries me a bit but which I can override each time I start the car, is the Autostop or Start/Stop system.
At this time of the year with higher ambient temperatures and low demands on the battery, it seems to operate within a mile of starting any journey and if that involves a slow moving traffic jam then the continual stopping and starting worries me with respect to battery drain especially as my journeys are invariably on the short side.
Anyway, I've got a new car now and it was never in my mind when I was in that pub eating my Scampi and chips wondering where to go after we had finished!
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I don't understand people's concern with Stop-Start. It just works! The system in the petrol BMW loaner I had the other week was so unobtrusive that I'd been doing my handbrake-N thing at red lights for half a day before I realized the engine was off and there was nothing to be gained by moving the selector. (The BMW system drops the rev needle to 'Ready' rather than 0, which may be why I didn't spot it straight away.)
All these systems will disable themselves if the battery drops to a level that won't sustain it. The kind of traffic you describe is exactly what the system is designed for, and where it makes most difference to fuel economy and pollution.
Nice car, the Mk7 Golf. I nearly bought one last year and I'd have been perfectly happy if I had. Hope you enjoy yours.
Last edited by: WillDeBeest on Fri 15 Jul 16 at 10:42
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>> Nice car, the Mk7 Golf. I nearly bought one last year and I'd have been
>> perfectly happy if I had. Hope you enjoy yours.
>>
Many thanks. A friend of mine has a Honda Civic with S/S and he, earlier in the year, wondered why his was not working. He was told that his battery charge level was low and had disabled that system and was advised to take it for a long run. This has apparently cured the problem for the time being - he too doesn't do a high mileage.
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Stop-start works? Course it does, but after three years in a city, will the battery and starter motor need replacing at undoubtedly (much) more money than more basic items?
I'm not disputing turning off an engine of a car sat in a stationary queue saves petrol/diesel, but one can need to pull out of a junction very sharply and any delay is at least a pest, if not dangerous.
I don't, nor will I sit in gear with the clutch pressed. Thrust bearing failed on my first car, and the vintage car has a carbon thrust bearing so one keeps the time the clutch is pressed to an absolute minimum. And that is now a total habit.
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>> Stop-start works? Course it does, but after three years in a city, will the battery
>> and starter motor need replacing at undoubtedly (much) more money than more basic items?
>>
I have never been a low mileage motorist sc can't speak for a vehicle that never sees motorway use, I am now on my 3rd car with stop start, a Mk7 Golf and have never had any issues, like any high mileage driver it does see a fair amount of queueing etc works faultlessly and not seen any issues.
Low and slow mileage, unbroken by any quicker trips, is not good for any car IMO but no reason why the stop start shoulld cause any more problems than anything else
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It is, of course, quite possible to disable the Stop/Start permanently.....
Told by a pal who owns a busy independent garage that the automatic handbrakes are very expensive to repair if they go faulty and that's apparently not uncommon.
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>> Told by a pal who owns a busy independent garage that the automatic handbrakes are
>> very expensive to repair if they go faulty and that's apparently not uncommon.
>>
I know a colleague had one fail on a Ford S-Max but haven't heard of one go on a Golf yet
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I first drive a start-stop car in 2011 and they'd been around for a year or two before that. Shouldn't the evidence of failed mechanisms be all around us by now? (See also catalytic converters, electric windows, turbochargers...)
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>>I first drive a start-stop car in 2011 and they'd been around for a year or two before that.>>
Way out! I drove what was the first Stop/Start car (as far as I can recall) back in 1994 when VW introduced a 64bhp non-turbo diesel Golf with the feature.
We were let loose in heavy London traffic and I still recall the ever constant fear that the heavy duty starter motor and battery would let us down whenever we came to a stop..:-)
I've noticed with a pal's Skoda Octavia with the feature that if you brake gently the Stop/Start does not come into operation.
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Yes, you can drive around it if you need to. Come to a full stop at a red light or in a traffic queue and it will cut out; roll to a halt at a T-junction and it will keep running for a smart getaway. Not that the BMW one ever held me up when it had cut out; it's really that good.
I'm sure people said all this 'too clever by half' stuff about synchromesh gearboxes and electric starters once upon a time. As for these newfangled flashing indicators ... the world's gone raving mad, Marjorie. [Insert BMW joke here. ]
};---)
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I still feel deep down in my motoring bones that for an engine to keep on starting and stopping in what could be every few seconds in some situations is not a good thing from the point of view of component wear and battery life. I realise I can disable the thing each time I start the car and will on my cold start and subsequent slow 1.5 mile crawl into Bromley on a Tuesday morning each week.
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>>I realise I can disable the thing each time I start the car and will on my cold start and subsequent slow 1.5 mile crawl into Bromley on a Tuesday morning each week. >>
It can be Disabled permanently via the engine diagnostics settings (at least on VW models).
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Those examples you give, WdB, have all made life easier and/or safer. My gripe against the electric parking brake is that it doesn't, particularly as in the V60 it's down by my right knee. But even if it were where it should be, on the centre console, it still wouldn't achieve anything that the pull-up mechanical handbrake couldn't.
And I'm not convinced that start-stop actually saves very much fuel, if any. It's there, like the absurd can of gunk in place of a spare wheel, to meet artificial emissions targets.
Last edited by: Avant on Fri 15 Jul 16 at 16:59
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Well I thought the BMW combination of parking brake and stop-start did make driving easier. The EPB is operated by a tiny lever that mimics a conventional handbrake - up to engage, down to release - and is neatly positioned on the centre console. A red LED ring glows when it's on. Only there's no need to disengage it, as pressure on the accelerator restarts the engine and releases the brake in one move. So I've been standing at the lights, engine off, car safely immobilized, no brake lights to bother the driver behind, but ready to move off at the touch of one pedal.
Compare that with the sequence of clutch-down-first-gear-clutch-bite-release-handbrake-release-clutch that I have to do in my BMW (whose engine hasn't even stopped) and the convenience speaks for itself.
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It would take great pressure to make me pay money for a car with stop-start or an 'electric parking brake'.
These devices are designed to let the user down and make aftermarket monkeys richer than they are already. Some gizmos are useful but these two are awful, and completely unnecessary.
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What's your practical experience, AC? When I drove a manual S60 with an EPB, I thought it ruined the car, but that's Volvo's poor implementation that doesn't work with a manual clutch. I thought it was tolerable in the automatic V70 we came close to buying in 2012, but the BMW version as I've described, is a dream to use; really does add to the pleasure of driving.
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>> What's your practical experience, AC?
Very limited indeed. I'm happy yr BMW makes the EPB work well of course, and a dream to drive.
But I don't like unnecessary gizmos. They are likely to become tiresome sooner or later; and why wear out the starter, starter ring and pinions for no good reason?
Seems potty to me. I can drive, I don't need to be cosseted until the damn thing goes wrong, as it is sure to do.
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I haven't got one, AC. My BMW has a manual gearbox, cable handbrake and no stop-start. The loaner I had while it was in the workshop had the gizmos, and I found they worked well.
My BMW is still nicer to drive overall, but that's because it's a chariot and the loaner was a bus.
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>> And I'm not convinced that start-stop actually saves very much fuel, if any. It's there, like the
>> absurd can of gunk in place of a spare wheel, to meet artificial emissions targets.
Absolutely. The stop-start means the official CO2 emissions are lower because of the part of the test when the car is stationary, i.e. engine off so no CO2. But we do benefit because road fund licence and company car benefit in kind is based on the CO2 emissions.
The stop-start in the previous car (Passat diesel) often didn't get a chance to turn off the engine, probably because the parameters were not met. The current A3 petrol does stop and restart the engine often and it's quick to do so.
The only time I disable it is if I need to get out of the car briefly.... otherwise it will stop and will want you to restart. So gear lever to neutral, foot on the brake and then restart the engine. With it disabled you can put on the parking brake and leave it in neutral with the engine running (or even drive if you really wanted to!).
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 15 Jul 16 at 17:19
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>> >>I first drive a start-stop car in 2011 and they'd been around for a year
>> or two before that.>>
>>
>> Way out! I drove what was the first Stop/Start car (as far as I can
>> recall) back in 1994 when VW introduced a 64bhp non-turbo diesel Golf with the feature.
>>
>>
I think the first example would be the Fiat Regatta Energy Saving, from around 1983.
Colleague had a Passat that had no end of problems with the EPB. Kept locking on and refusing to release. Gave up and chopped it in for
a Polo with a conventional handbrake in the end!!
>>
>>
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SQ!
>> I think the first example would be the Fiat Regatta Energy Saving, from around 1983.
My first car was a 1983 Polo with it fitted- called the Formel E, although when I got it, it was 10 years old cost £500 and the SS never stopped it - the only evidence was a toggle switch on the dash to turn the system off :-)
Cracking car though, had a high ratio gear box which allowed you to hit 90 in third
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 18 Jul 16 at 21:34
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>>
>> Cracking car though, had a high ratio gear box which allowed you to hit 90
>> in third
>>
That sounds like a similar or same box what was in my F plate Golf 1.6 CL 4+E.
40 in first gear too. No rev counter either, too poor thing!
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>> I think the first example would be the Fiat Regatta Energy Saving, from around 1983.>>
I'm happy to concede your point but, as the one time owner of firstly a 1.4 Miafiori and then a 1.6S Regata (both of which proved excellent cars), I'll content myself with pointing out that there is only one "t" in Regata...:-)
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...but two Rs in 'Mirafiori'.
};---)
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>> ...but two Rs in 'Mirafiori'. };---)>>
Oh how the mighty have fallen...
:-( :-) :-)
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My 2011 LEC had stop-start. I never switched it off, and it did more than its fair share of short journeys but was faultless over the 4 or so years I had it. A non issue in my experience...
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Also, haven't I read that some cars (maybe only petrol?) don't even use the starter to restart - the engine is stopped at the point that firing the ignition is enough to turn the engine over? Though I might be mis-remembering this badly!!
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Sounds like what Mazda do.
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Mercedes use a belt driven starter/ alternator so it's much smoother to restart. Don't know if any others do that.
I did read some manufacturers are taking it off now as it doesn't make economic sense.
We always turn it off in wife's VW Tiguan although I generally forget until the first time it cuts out. However I will use it if I'm going to be stopped for a while. She never uses it.
She also doesn't use auto-hold, which seems pointless in an auto, and so the electric brake works manually. Using the brake features in their auto modes seems to make the car jerk off the line - a combination, I think, of slight delay in the throttle response and the DSG box. It feels better to hold the car on foot-brake and then release it so the car starts to creep then pick up the gas. I also don't like the way auto-hold extinguishes the brake lights, but VW have changed that on the latest platform models.
As for no issues with VW electric rear brakes, Passats are notorious for problems at around 5yrs old.
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>> As for no issues with VW electric rear brakes, Passats are notorious for problems at around 5yrs old.
Had mine for 3 years so no problems.
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silly question - how does stop start work on an auto? Do you need to put into neutral and then back into drive to start it?
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>> silly question - how does stop start work on an auto? Do you need to
>> put into neutral and then back into drive to start it?
>>
Nope - just stop with your foot on the brake and the engine stops.
What happens then varies a bit. On our 2015 Tiguan, if you use auto-hold, you'd take your foot off the brake. This would cause the engine to start. I undertand on later platform models the engine stays off until the acellerator pedal is pressed. Car stays in D the whole time.
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The BMW allowed me to engage the parking brake and release the pedal without restarting. A gentle press on the accelerator (or even the brake?) was enough to restart the engine and disengage the EPB. Couldn't be simpler, and the transmission remained in D throughout.
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On my DSG equipped Audi, when stop-start kicks in you can:
- Keep foot on the brake (so brakes lights) on and as soon as you release the brake pedal the engine starts.
- Engage the electronic parking brake. The engine will restart when you try to use the accelerator. Or if you press and release the brake pedal (twice?) when the EPB is on, the engine will restart. Or you could always press the stop-start button and turn it off too.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 15 Jul 16 at 23:54
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When I test drove a Passat CC diesel with DSG I didn't like the DSG setup. Later on I figured it was auto-hold when parking I didn't like. But the higher BIK rate meant I went for a manual anyway. I like the DSG in the Audi and emissions make it cheaper on BIK (18% rate even now is fairly low).
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Same in the Ford Mondeo 150bhp automatic diesel estate I was driving this afternoon. But the electronic handbrake disengages once you have pressed the accelerator pedal as with similar systems such as that from VW.
If the handbrake needs to be done manually (such as when originally switching on the engine), there is a small button you can press on the centre console.
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A security advantage of an EPB is if it's on it cannot be disengaged without the ignition on.. Downside is a flat battery means it can't be disengaged either.
The EPB with auto hold on the Passat worked very well. I didn't spec auto-hold on the A3 since it is a DSG and it has some downsides IMO.
If you have auto-hold, when you stop the car and turn off the ignition it will apply the hand brake (EPB) when stationary. But auto-hold only works when you're wearing the seatbelt as the driver. Forget this and unclip the belt before auto-hold has secured the car and you'll forget it hasn't applied the EPB.
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Wow, that is a lot of input and from those with much more experience of these things than myself.
There is not much more I can say at this stage as I think the way the EPG and AutoHold in implemented on my manual transmission car works seamlessly at the moment.
The only change of technique I have had to adopt is getting my car out of my drive. The car is driven in forward and then sharply around to the right where it is parked thus freeing up access to our garage in which is parked our new Hyundai i10.
When I want to get out, I reverse backwards in an arc and then forwards down the drive which slopes towards the road. Before, I reversed and braked just when my car was about to reach the fence and then the car would freewheel forwards down the drive. Now, braking before I hit the fence invokes the Autohold (unless I turn it off) and so I have to engage first or second gear and release the clutch thus releasing the braked car. It's no problem and just takes a bit of getting used to.
In all other conditions on the level just feathering the footbrake in slow moving traffic where stops are possible means that it is just about possible to stop the car without AutoHold coming on in which case a heavier prod on the pedal will switch it on if so desired.
By the way does anyone know of a detailed account as to how the Discover Navigation System works in these VW cars. The booklet is hopeless and want to know how to add Waypoints as one can in my stand alone Tom Tom unit. I believe it's an entirely different system
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With a route planned, is there not an option to enter a new destination/stopover? That's how it worked on my RNS 310 in the Passat. The Discover Navigation System probably works in a similar way.
When you enter a new destination it will probably ask if you want to add a stopover or navigate to a new destination. The route info will then show time/distance to the stopover point.
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>> With a route planned, is there not an option to enter a new destination/stopover? That's
>> how it worked on my RNS 310 in the Passat. The Discover Navigation System probably
>> works in a similar way.
>>
>> When you enter a new destination it will probably ask if you want to add
>> a stopover or navigate to a new destination. The route info will then show time/distance
>> to the stopover point.
>>
Thanks. I'll have another session tomorrow following my attempts this morning. I do wonder what drain on the battery there is sitting in the car for long-ish periods playing with the satnav.
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Relax, OG! You're never going to enjoy your new car if you keep fretting about the battery.
The answer to your wondering is that whatever the drain on the battery, the car will let you know before it becomes too much by shutting down non-essentials like navigation. I've done a lot of fiddling with both my complex German cars and never got to that point. The first 20-minute journey you make will have the battery back to full.
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...of course, if the battery does go belly-up, it will probably have to be replaced by a special AGM battery, at somewhat higher cost than a standard one.
....but, as Will says, don't worry........ ;-)
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Thanks guys. Reassuring as ever!
Next door are having an 'event' today in their garden involving a smelly BBQ so if that's not an incentive to go out in my car, I don't know what is.
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>> Next door are having an 'event' today in their garden involving a smelly BBQ so
>> if that's not an incentive to go out in my car, I don't know what is.
Decent enough of them to let you know...
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>> Decent enough of them to let you know...
Let me know? Of course not but guessed as much by the amount of clobber, tables, Balloon, Hired bouncy council etc etc.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 18 Jul 16 at 01:09
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>>Let me know? Of course not but guessed as much by the amount of clobber, tables, Balloon, Hired bouncy council etc etc. >>
With age comes experience other than knowledge of bouncy castles...:-)
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Typos are a hoot, aren't they? Council, indeed!
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My Audi A8 is 10 years old and now over 250,000 miles.
We have had it for 6 years and 150,000 of those.
The EPB recently failed in the off position on one side and it only cost £180 from Eurocarparts for a whole new brake caliper with the motor and gears built-in. It took 30 minutes to fit.
Mecanically, they are very simple. It has a 150:1 plastic reduction gearset and quite a small 380 sized motor. The plastic casing had cracked on a seam allowing water and grit ingress which had worn it until the play was too much and it slipped when applying a clamping force.
I had an L reg Mazda 626 MANY years ago and both manual rear handbrake mechanisms seized up and hand to be greased weekly, eventually new calipers (made by mitsubishi) were needed and at £450 each dealer-only it was scrapped.
EPB for me any day.
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>> I had an L reg Mazda 626 MANY years ago and both manual rear handbrake
>> mechanisms seized up and hand to be greased weekly, eventually new calipers (made by mitsubishi)
>> were needed and at £450 each dealer-only it was scrapped.
>>
Water under the bridge, and these things are never available when you need them, but they're on eBay brand-new for £85/pair. Or you could have had them refurbed.
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The C4 G Picasso got the stop start and funny handbrake.
I soon got used to the stop start,if it is really needed is debatable.
This latest C4 is more car like than the old C4.Also got a spare tyre fitted.
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Cant say how reliable all SS systems are, but the one in the Lexus (hybrid) starts and stops all the time, even when on the move. It's at 123K now and all still appears well, but not to bothered as its all under warranty for another 20 months.
Dealer advised me that a recall is on its way to me though :-(
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The Start/Stop only works in this new Golf when the gearbox is in neutral and foot off the clutch so will obviously not stop if just about to pull out of, say, a road junction and so it's not going to take anyone by surprise in those circumstances.
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>> The Start/Stop only works in this new Golf when the gearbox is in neutral and
>> foot off the clutch so will obviously not stop if just about to pull out
>> of, say, a road junction and so it's not going to take anyone by surprise
>> in those circumstances.
>>
Absolutely, clutch riders like SWMBO are rarely troubled by stop start or auto hold except at traffic lights and the like
Last edited by: commerdriver on Tue 19 Jul 16 at 15:32
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>> troubled by stop start or auto hold <<
Troubled? I really can't see why it would bother anyone.
The XC60 has both and it just works seamlessly in the background.
We were both determined not to like it and vowed to turn it off if possible but neither of us are even aware it has stopped or that the hill hold is working.
It's progress!
Pat
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>> Troubled? I really can't see why it would bother anyone.
>>
It If the car you normally drive is technology free, and you drive a high tech car occasionally it can be annoying when the technology cuts in (or in this case cuts out). At least that's how it seems to the 2 most important women in my life, who both drive Mk4 Golfs normally and who both would rather drive their own car or the other's mk 4 golf than my high tech Mk 7 Golf if they have the choice.
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>> At least that's how it seems to the 2 most important women
>> in my life, who both drive Mk4 Golfs normally and who both would rather drive
>> their own car or the other's mk 4 golf than my high tech Mk 7
>> Golf if they have the choice.
>>
I could make the obvious sexist remark but I will refrain from doing so!
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>> I could make the obvious sexist remark but I will refrain from doing so!
>>
very sensible of you
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Volkswagen - New Golf! Well it took long enough. - WillDeBeest
