www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-36953439
I'm surprised he only got a two month ban. I would have thought a year.
Anyone know that particular strech of the A11.
|
Overall the sentence was far too lenient.
£365 is nothing, especially at 50p a month or whatever, and two month ban is trivial.
I'd have hoped for something that seriously made his life difficult for a while. Community Service would have been excellent; some use to the community and a fairly significant deterrent if it is done properly.
|
No idea, an absolute dearth of information in the article. Other than the 'A11' no information is given and the situation could have been anything from past a school at school time, to a deserted dual carriageway with very good sight lines.
Added, I too think community service makes more sense than a fine though
Last edited by: Slidingpillar on Tue 2 Aug 16 at 15:25
|
Far too lenient for going that fast.
He was also driving a SEAT Leon Cupra which is limited to 155mph. No doubt he'd have been going faster if the limiter had been removed!
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 2 Aug 16 at 15:38
|
If he was only charged with speeding, rather than a more serious offence such as dangerous driving then 56 days may be max per sentencing guidelines?
www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/MCSG_web_-_October_2014.pdf
printed page 131 (119 in pdf index)
|
It says 'Icklingham on the A11' but it isn't on the A11.
So was he on the A11 or the minor road at Icklingham?
If it was the A11 I would have thought it would have said Barton Mills.
Pat
|
At the A11 / B1112 junction and for about 1/2 mile along the A11, the A11 is actually within the boundaries of Icklingham.
Don't ask me about the logic of that, but there you are.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 2 Aug 16 at 16:09
|
>>No idea, an absolute dearth of information in the article.
What part of "154MPH" do you not understand?
|
Speed isn't dangerous in itself. An athletic car driven on emptyish A roads will vary its speed all the time, with the road and landscape. My guess is that it hit 154mph for a short time on the fastest safe stretch. Speed wonks always put their detection equipment in those places... stands to reason doesn't it?
Might have been a crazed tearaway, might just as easily have been a good driver in a hurry. We don't know because details are lacking.
Of course the law is the law, but I don't regard exceeding speed limits, in itself, as very criminal.
Mind you 154 is marching on a bit, as we used to say.
|
>>might just as easily have been a good driver in a hurry.
What happens when "a good driver in a hurry" gets a front wheel puncture at 154mph in a road car?
Or a deer runs out in front of him?
Or anything at all happens?
|
>> What happens when "a good driver in a hurry" gets a front wheel puncture at
>> 154mph in a road car?
>>
Most times he is dead, but... it's his problem in most cases, nobody else involved.
IF it is a wide road with good visibility and he is a trained skilled performance driver, at full concentration and in good visibility, he might survive
The speed itself does not make it dangerous.
But the likelihood is it was not a suitable place for the speed and he is not capable of dealing with any problem and his observation was not up to it, so he is a nutter and deserves everything he got and more, after all he failed to observe the speed detecting device in sufficient time to slow down.
Without the detail we cannot be certain.
|
>> What happens when (etc etc).... Or anything at all happens?
'Anything at all' can happen at any moment and any speed, even a 'legal' speed, with the same disastrous, or not disastrous, results.
The faster you're going the worse the crash, the greater the risk of death or injury. Any fule kno that. But it's a logic that if followed seriously would bring all traffic to a virtual halt and put paid to the privately owned automobile.
Some of you may quite fancy that but I, er, don't, not really. Maintain speed and give aggressive dangerous mimsers a wide berth. But it's still a bit of a lottery out there. Things come at you from what the Gringos call left field sometimes. You have to be alert with your consciousness a good way down the road in front of you, so you are just doing the necessary, in good time, in a seamless flow.
|
I think the limit there is 60mph, lets assume that it is.
Man coming towards me gets a front wheel puncture at 70mph and loses control. I see him coming, I fancy my chances of avoiding the disaster.
Idiot at 154mph coming towards me gets a puncture, I don't even see him coming, never mind get a chance to avoid him.
Worrying about someone doing 70 in a 60, assuming the conditions are ok, is one thing and perhaps over the top.
Worrying about some untrained t*** doing 154mph on a road he is sharing with me is a whole 'nother ball game, whatever the conditions are like.
|
>> Worrying about some untrained t*** doing 154mph on a road he is sharing with me
>> is a whole 'nother ball game, whatever the conditions are like.
>>
On any road if he is sharing it with another car especially, oncoming 154 is a nutter speed.
Requirement 1 is no other vehicles
Requirement 2 is no junctions
etc etc
|
stopping distance, at that speed, is about 350m.
at night - impossible to see that far ahead. During the day... things come up VERY quickly!
|
If that is the stretch past the Elveden monument, it has recently been dualled. There's a roundabout at Barton Mills where there is/was often a camera van on the eastbound approach - nearly had me a couple of times and did get a pal on his way to Center Parcs (I'm usually heading for north Norfolk or a friend's in Wymondham).
I think he was "pursued" rather than "camera'd", judging by the police tweet. The 2 month ban does seem rather lenient.
|
"Man coming towards me gets a front wheel puncture at 70mph and loses control. I see him coming, I fancy my chances of avoiding the disaster.
Idiot at 154mph coming towards me gets a puncture, I don't even see him coming, never mind get a chance to avoid him."
Idiot was long passed you and was lining up a following car to have his moment with.
Someone else said, and I agree, that speed in itself isn't so bad, it's when it's done badly or by someone with little experience that it becomes more dangerous. We have an arbitrary 70 national speed limit which seems to be a similar limit to many other countries (+/- 15%). We actually deserve a lower limit, given the amount of people who can't or choose not to drive properly or observe the basic rules of the road. Driving on the unlimited autobahns in Germany feels positively safe compared to some areas here, as you can tell everyone is (mostly) concentrating on their driving.
|
"In 2014, autobahns carried 31% of motorized road traffic while accounting for 11% of Germany's traffic deaths. The autobahn fatality rate of 1.6 deaths per billion-travel-kilometers compared favorably with the 4.6 rate on urban streets and 6.5 rate on rural roads."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobahn
But that is on a road built for those speeds with people expecting you to be doing them. And with separation and no crossroads.
|
>> Or a deer runs out in front of him?
It was bad enough at 50 mph, I would hate to think what it would be like at 154 mph.
|
I did think about your incident with that post.
Back many years ago (nearer 2004 maybe) we were in the north Lakes. I remember seeing the eyes of a deer in the trees as we drove back to the hotel one night. There were warning signs.
Or how about when a rabbit ran in front of the car... I lifted/broke as I could. Don't think I hit it. But at 155mph instinct might have made me brake too... but with different consequences.
He got off very lightly.
|
What part of "154MPH" do you not understand?
None of it, but the article tells us nothing else. As such, bit tricky to make an informed comment.
|
|
I'd still hazard a guess he was seeing if he could reach the car's top speed which should have been limited to 155mph. The fact he was clocked at 154mph suggests his right foot was planted all the way to the floor and the car wouldn't go any faster.
|
My 330 was limited to 155, and I have been fortunate in being able to own a fair few performance cars, but even in my younger days I wouldn't even consider hitting that speed. Occasionally I might go considerably over the limit, not only on deserted dual carriageways that I know well. The only time I have ever been 'flat out' was in my H reg Saab 9000S 2.3 Turbo on a derestricted German autobahn, following a Belgian friend in his Merc. That was fun, but occasions when such speeds are possible are few & far between.
Far better a 12 month ban and lots of community service for the miscreant. Road side litter picking springs to mind
|
>> but even in my younger days I wouldn't even consider hitting that speed.
>>
I have never been in a vehicle that could do 155, never mind driven one.
Don't get me wrong the guy was almost certainly a nutter and almost certainly got off lightly
but..
How much more dangerous was he than someone doing, say 110 mph on an autobahn in the 70s or 80s or 90s? Considering the tyres, brakes, safety features etc
|
...well, it might or might not have been limited, because research indicates that it was a somewhat "tweaked" vehicle. (270bhp claimed, and possibly not a Cupra).
I always wonder how someone of that age can afford the insurance on such a vehicle (and presumably it was properly insured or he would have had the rest of the book thrown at him).
Could be that the magistrates have taken his employment as a mechanic into consideration (loss of job, etc.), but there are indications that the police are going to appeal the decision as too lenient.
Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Tue 2 Aug 16 at 16:47
|
|
Suffolk police said the sentence was "disappointing" and I agree. 154MPH is taking the wee wee a bit - whatever the road conditions. I would have sent him down for a years (ban)
|
>> ...well, it might or might not have been limited, because research indicates that it was a
>> somewhat "tweaked" vehicle. (270bhp claimed, and possibly not a Cupra).
The current standard SEAT Leon Cupra is 290PS (286bhp). It used to be 280PS (276bhp) with another variant slightly down on power. That's how it comes from the factory. So it might not have been tweaked to have 270+ bhp.
|
|
....I'm basing it on a newspaper report where the miscreant describes it as a 56 reg stage 2 tuned FR (or FR+)........(with 96K on the clock 8-) )
|
Explains how he could afford it. It was a ten year old car and not a Cupra. As you said earlier. Apologies. I had only read the original new article that stated Cupra. :-)
He posted this image of the car:
i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article8390817.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/louie-Howlett-car-ad.jpg
Why the Mirror then says: "SEAT say the £27,000 ‘hot hatch’ Cupra can almost match the acceleration of a Ferrari or a Porsche.".... but it's not a SEAT Leon Cupra! Doh.
|
|
What a horrible looking motor.
|
That's the back... :-)
But yes the previous generation Leon was only loved by some. But then I had a Passat CC so who am I to comment on car looks.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 2 Aug 16 at 18:15
|
|
Personally I think the CC is a fine looking car
|
I went off it to be honest. The current revised model has nicer tail lights in my opinion but I think they made a mess of the front grille.
I'm trying to work out what the next car will be for me. FIL has trouble getting in and out of the car. He prefers the rear seats. I can't yet figure out what the issue is but it might be better if:
- Larger rear door
- More leg room in the back
- Car a bit higher up
- No sloping roofline - e.g. an estate
- All of the above
So come early 2017 he'll have to come to some car dealers to help narrow the choice down.
If monthly rentals are good and BIK will be low, a Passat GTE might work. And estates normally suffer from higher emissions and therefore BIK goes up but the GTE means emissions remain low. For most of my weeks I could get by with charging it up maybe twice a week and running on electric alone.
|
|
Yes the mk1 was far better looking than mk2, which looked like it had piled on loads of weight.
|
I contemplated a Leon mk1 in 2000 to replace the stolen Golf mk IV.... but the interior was cheap hard plastic for starters. If I'd got one it would have been the 180PS 1.8 turbo petrol.
Got a wafting 1.8T Passat instead. VW sent me a pair of driving gloves - so they got some of the jokes.
|
I had a second look at a Leon last Saturday whilst passing a dealer. Externally, I like the look of the ST estate, and whilst appreciating it has VAG innards, the trim quality still leaves a lot to be desired ( after my 12yo BM!)
A tempting proposition with that 1.4 150 engine, and I just couldn't trust myself with a Cupra, although the salesman tried to sell me one from stock. A £31k Cupra ST 290, despite me telling him my budget was a LOT less than that. But £31k. For a SEAT? That's 340 Touring territory.
|
I am impressed with the VAG 1.4 turbo petrol 150PS engine in the A3. If you were ever this way I could give you a spin. This is with the not to be trusted long term 7 speed dry clutch DSG.
I like it enough to contemplate another car with the same engine. Possibly with plug-in electric capability to keep BIK low.
No way do I do enough miles for a diesel to benefit unless BIK is low. But there's the 3% charge for diesel... MPG does not make up for that usually for BIK.
I had a Leon FR 184PS as a demo lined up. I'd been out in a 150PS for a quick go. But when I had the A3 the quality inside meant I didn't bother. The low BIK made it cheaper than a diesel equivalent but still a fair bit more per month than the Leon FR diesel. I think it was worth it, for me at least.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 2 Aug 16 at 18:55
|
>> I am impressed with the VAG 1.4 turbo petrol 150PS engine in the A3. If
>> you were ever this way I could give you a spin. This is with the
>> not to be trusted long term 7 speed dry clutch DSG.
>>
>> I like it enough to contemplate another car with the same engine. Possibly with plug-in
>> electric capability to keep BIK low.
>>
If it helps (or not...) on the DSG front, I reported the odd jerky gear change on our e-tron. Only a six speed 'box I think? Anyway, after a brief diagnosis including an ever so useful video from 'Audicam' the diagnostic is a replacement mechatronics unit required. That's a part that has to be coded to the car in Germany (according to the dealer) and so takes 48 hours to be delivered.
We've had a new shape A4 TDI 190 S Line auto since Monday, with half the options list thrown at it I think. It's a diesel. Despite being brand new it feels like old tech after the e-tron. It's also huge - feels more like an A6. It's on 19" or 20" wheels, which follow the road camber terribly. But the nav display in the binnacle in front of th driver is lovely! And it's very well built.
|
I know what you mean about the A3 build quality. My driving instructor pal is on his third A3 2.0 Tdi, and he covers 55k miles pa. they are still immaculate when he replaces them after 135/150k miles. His pupils seem to like the A3!
If he ever bought a Sportback (with pano roof) instead of the 3 door I would be seriously tempted
|
|
PeterS, I had a ride out in a new A4 with a friend who had one as a courtesy car. Light years ahead of the outgoing model in terms of build quality & refinement. A petrol 190 Avant would be perfect for me. Sadly, over budget, although the Audi Approved website have one with a pano roof! And a manual which I require with any VAG product.
Last edited by: legacylad on Tue 2 Aug 16 at 19:26
|
>> If it helps (or not...) on the DSG front, I reported the odd jerky gear change on our e-tron.
>> ... diagnostic is a replacement mechatronics unit required. .. so takes 48 hours to be
>> delivered.
Sounds a quick turnaround. I simply need a gearbox in the golf mk IV and it took a few weeks to come in to the dealers (drove it in the meantime).
>> But the nav display in the binnacle in front of th driver is lovely! And it's very well built.
An option on the A3 now.
>> I had a ride out in a new A4 with a friend who had one as a courtesy car. Light years ahead of
>> the outgoing model in terms of build quality & refinement.
Back in 2001 I decided against the A4 because of the outdated interior. Similar reasons to avoid the Mazda6 - in fact the Mazda6 aped some of the design with a screen high in the dash.
I might be interest in the next A4... depends on monthly cost and ease of access for F-i-L.
|
>> Sounds a quick turnaround. I simply need a gearbox in the golf mk IV and
>> it took a few weeks to come in to the dealers (drove it in the
>> meantime).
Possible a measure of how often they go wrong ;)
>>
>> An option on the A3 now.
>>
The cluster on the A4 was far larger than that on our A3. Mind you, the centre screen, while wider, did not retract and looked very outdated compared to the Google Earth map display that the e-tron has
>>
>> I might be interest in the next A4... depends on monthly cost and ease of
>> access for F-i-L.
>>
I wouldn't swap our A3 for the TDI auto A4 we've currently got unless I really needed the space!
|
Too lenient, as others have said, and only because there was no accident, at least 1year ban, and car crushed.
£365 to pay - what for, "costs" ?, seems cheap.
Speed limits are of necessity factored down to the worst case scenario, so 20mph past a school at 3PM might be plenty, whereas 50mph at 3AM might be no problem, but given that you can only post one limit, which one would you choose ?
Most of us ( ! ) intelligent people will adjust our speed according to on the spot circumstances, realising our own, and our car's abilities, but "they" have to consider the idiots/incapables out there.
Late to respond, but some comments took my (mischevious ? eye)
" a good driver in a hurry." erm, like Mike Hawthorne ?
" Or a deer runs out in front of him? " maybe even an "old dear" ?
" aggressive ...... mimsers ," isn't that a contradiction in terms ??
When i first took my BMW 3.0 sport over 3 figures i realised that i had found the true purpose of the car of the car (she said "hello, let's go") it was like Jekyll and Hyde, but sadly stifled by reality i realised that any modern car would be satisfactory up to 100mph , so i sold her and bit the bullet.
|
|
Stan, whilst I agree that a top speed of 155 is purely academic, it's the associated factors with a car of that ilk which I appreciated viz my 330. Better road holding, braking, and best of all, the ability to overtake quickly and safely when conditions allowed.
|
Certainly wouldn't disagree about overtaking ability, but nowadays almost all of my driving is urban, daytime, and short runs, so there's always a set of traffic lights, another car or temporary roadworks etc round the next corner, to get a clear run anywhere i have to deliberately seek one out.
You haven't mentioned the reason that i just had to get me one of those six cylinder jobbies - the sound ! I was invited to test drive a 325 to give an opinion on a running problem, car was behaving itself so i wondered if the problem was occuring at higher speeds. Join motorway - 50mph in 4th, change to 3rd and press the loud pedal ... wow, music !
Happy days.
|
Your and mine motoring scenarios are chalk & cheese Stan. I live in rural N Yorks, just outside Settle. No commuting.. My last 3 jobs over the past 6 years entailed a one mile walk!
Lots of quiet roads to appreciate the performance, and sound, of a straight six. The only towns of any significance I drive through are Bradford & Keighley. Visits to Leeds, Lancaster & elsewhere are always on the train.
I would hate to have to drive in a large city
|
I'm just jealous now, maybe i should move, and revisit the old ways ! :-)
Get something with ZIP !
|
too lenient or about right? - No FM2R
