Going to be driving a Discovery Sport for the next few days including a trip down to Nottingham. Its automatic. My next car WILL be an automatic.
I just know I will be crying as I get back in my Civic on Wednesday........
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I doubt very much whether I'd go back to a manual now. I love autos
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Isnt it strange how, over the years, we have all got used to power steering, electric windows, cds, air cons, reversing sensors and all the other gadgets that make driving easier, but the majority of us still sit and pump a clutch up and down all the time moving the gearstick. Especially bad in rush hour traffic.
Why has there been a "resistance" to autos in UK? The additional cost that the manufacturers put onto them?
Drove the car home tonight and within 20 mins found myself driving with one hand at the 12 o'clock position with the curved arm and shoulder!
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,,,,because driving a manual, petrol engined car is far more involving....:-)
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Agreed. On an empty windy twisty road.
Not in rush hour commute. Not on long motorway journeys. Not in city centre stop start traffic. All of which I do more than the empty twisties.
And it has flappy paddles anyway for manual changes!
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I would agree if your diving include a lot of stop start driving or commuting. If not I think a manual still has the edge.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sat 24 Jun 17 at 08:50
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>> Agreed. On an empty windy twisty road.
>>
>> Not in rush hour commute. Not on long motorway journeys. Not in city centre stop
>> start traffic. All of which I do more than the empty twisties.
Round here, many of the empty twisties are single track roads with passing places and high hedges.. So 20mph average and 35mph top speed.
I'll stick with an auto..
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>> ,,,,because driving a manual, petrol engined car is far more involving....:-)
>>
Mist involving drive must be a F1 car. Won't find a clutch pedal in that
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>> ,,,,because driving a manual, petrol engined car is far more involving....:-)
>>
Not when you have 8 ratios on flappy paddles.
Though I would go back to manual and our 120i is manual.
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For me it all depends on the car. In general I'd have an auto, and indeed the 4 cars that preceeded the BMW were all autos. But I just enjoyed driving the manual 2 series more, even though it's slower accelerating and less economical than the auto.
All of the recent autos I've had did have flappy paddle gear changes; in reality the majority of journeys never involve using them and for those that did I could count on the fingers of one hand the number of times they were used... on the flip side, I do find myself driving faster in a manual BMW than in an auto on the whole, so perhaps auto was the way to go ;)
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I used the flappy paddle things on the 320 - after a couple of 80 mile commutes. On the way home to the old place there were some fantastic bends and it was (as excuse) a good place to blow the cobwebs out of the motor. Not used them on the 335 yet.
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>> I used the flappy paddle things on the 320 - after a couple of 80
>> mile commutes. On the way home to the old place there were some fantastic bends
>> and it was (as excuse) a good place to blow the cobwebs out of the
>> motor. Not used them on the 335 yet.
>>
I find that iI drive in manual 80% of the time, using the lever locally and the paddles on the open road. I'll only occasionally waft in comfort auto.
The torque of the 335d is impressive in manual. Try, say, 5th and let the torque sling you between bends.
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Early thoughts
For a £35k car, no auto lights, no auto wipers, no front sensors, no reversing camera or sat nav.
Ipod connection doesnt seem to work (at one point phone popped up with Land Rover apps it was wanting to download). All items that you can get on a car at a third of the price.
Average mpg is around 37mpg
According to the specs that are available on the website, car must be 4WD but would have thought there would have been additional buttons for this on a Land Rover but dont see any.
Its good being back in a high car / seating position again but for around £14k I could get a used Qashaqai auto diesel with £30 road tax and all the toys.
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>>For a £35k car, no auto lights, no auto wipers, no front sensors, no reversing camera or sat nav.
That must be the entry model. These vehicles are priced stiffly, JLR can sell as many as they can make, so not particularly good value for money in terms of equipment.
The four wheel drive system is permanent, all you control is the terrain setting.
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>> For a £35k car, no auto lights, no auto wipers, no front sensors, no reversing
>> camera or sat nav.
>> Ipod connection doesnt seem to work (at one point phone popped up with Land Rover
>> apps it was wanting to download). All items that you can get on a car
>> at a third of the price.
>>
>> Average mpg is around 37mpg
>>
Been keeping an eye on these as occasional 7 seats would be useful. They get very mixed reviews from owners - general impression is the quality is far below what it should be. One guy on Pistonheads had rejected two of them and given up with LR.
Your MPG figure seems remarkably high compared to others I've seen unless "average" is lot of long steady runs.
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Average mpg from Glasgow to Nottingham today, 77 cruise control in areas that I could, and then various stretches of 50 zones, returned 42.8 mpg.
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>> I doubt very much whether I'd go back to a manual now. I love autos
>>
Same here, moved on from manual boxes and clutches, and no more DMFs!
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My lorry, in common with the vast majority of larger HGV's nowadays, is automatic; well to be precise it's an automated manual, a Renault which uses Volvo's 12-speed i-Shift box. It's widely regarded as the best lorry gearbox ever made.
I was the first at our mill to have one about nine years ago; there were predictions of gloom and despondency from all the other drivers (you'll get stuck in every farm, leave your towing hitch permanently attached, etc) all of which proved false; but the most significant benefit is that my left hip no longer aches after a day's constant gear-changing around Welsh country lanes and farm tracks.
The difference was brought home to me a few weeks ago, when my own lorry was in for MOT and we had to borrow an old DAF from a local haulier; 2005 truck with a 16-speed ZF box, I must admit it was fun for the first few hours but I'm eternally thankful that I no longer have to drive something like that every day. I'm even considering an automatic option for my next van.
The price of progress, naturally, is that many new drivers do not have the slightest clue of how to use a manual HGV gearbox, not even a simple synchromesh-equipped "four-over-four" let alone an old-fashioned "crash" box which was still commonplace when i first started lorry driving 35 years ago. Our old friend Gordonbennett used to talk about "steering wheel attendants" and in many ways it's come to that in my trade.
Last edited by: Harleyman on Sat 24 Jun 17 at 15:17
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Depends really, for my main car, as in the one I use for work and to do 40,000 miles a year in, then auto every time. But, for razzing about locally on the country lanes, a wee hatchback with a manual box is great fun. Wouldn't especially want a small low powered car with an auto box, but a big wafter just suits one.
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>> but a big wafter just suits one.
Does she have a sister?
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Don't do big birds. Too expensive to keep fed.
;-)
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I bought my first automatic this time around. I wouldn't say I'd never go back (our Clubman D is a manual and I enjoy driving it), but the rise in popularity of automatics is down to a couple of things in my opinion.
Firstly, traffic conditions have been getting steadily worse over the previous decades, so we are spending more time trundling along in stop/start conditions where the need to constantly pump the clutch pedal in a manual car quickly becomes irritating.
Secondly, and for me more significantly, the performance and economy penalties traditionally imposed by an auto box have disappeared, and in many cases been reversed. My M140i, as with most BMWs and other cars using the ZF8 auto, has lower CO2 emissions, and is both faster and more economical as an automatic than it is as a manual.
Although I do miss the interaction of a manual when pressing on, and practicing the skills involved in smooth changes and heel and toe downshifts (pulling a paddle just isn't the same), the behaviour and adaptability of a modern automatic transmission is so close to faultless that you can't help but be impressed. If your last experience of an automatic transmission was any more than about 5 years ago, try a modern one. There has been a leap forward.
Last edited by: DP on Tue 27 Jun 17 at 10:53
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> There has been a leap forward
In the case of the Leon with S/S and DSG the leap forward is at every traffick light
What a horrid combination, my dislike of DSG is reconfirmed
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>>What a horrid combination, my dislike of DSG is reconfirmed
Have never driven a DSG, but whats the difference between it and the Land Rover's auto box in functionality?
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>> Have never driven a DSG, but whats the difference between it and the Land Rover's
>> auto box in functionality?
>>
In functionality they're both the same.
However I presume the auto in LandRovers is torque converter one, so there's a fluid link between the engine and everything else. DSG is an automated manual, the link being done with clutches.
I'd never driven DSG until my wife got her Tiguan and I'd say it's absolutely fine and I'm comparing it to the well regarded 5 speed torque converter auto in my older Merc. I will say we virtually never use stop start (or auto-hold). There are at least half-a-dozen verions of VW's DSG box and apparently they do vary so maybe we were lucky.
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>> The price of progress, naturally, is that many new drivers do not have the slightest
>> clue of how to use a manual HGV gearbox, not even a simple synchromesh-equipped "four-over-four"
Is there any licence restriction on auto trucks, as there is on cars?
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>>
>> Is there any licence restriction on auto trucks, as there is on cars?
>>
The licence restriction is effectively on manual cars.
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So, round trip from Glasgow to Nottingham and back. Overall mpg 42.7
In my opinion that is not too bad for a heavy, 4WD, 7 seater automatic car. My Hyundai ix35 2.0 diesel manual part time 4WD would only have managed high 30s on the same journey and speeds.
This is a car that I will never be able to afford so it was nice to see how the other half live!
Previously mentioned about the "toys" - it also has a couple of "weird" things
- beside the heater controls is a button that powers the radio unit on /off - why have it amongst the heater controls
- this may answer it - the radio has buttons around it - I physically couldnt reach them without stretching forward, it wasnt within natural touching distance.
- the phone set up will show you the usual directiry / call register etc but I couldnt see how to scroll through these with the steering remote controls so had to stretch forward to press the touch screen to make a call if I wanted to phone someone. Its the same in my Civic but the screen is very much within reach.
The LandRover badge on the bonnet is offset to the right which looks kind of weird. Why?
I drove up in various levels of rain and in my Civic, Hyundai and Seat before, I would be able to leave the lights and wipers which would have came on and off automatically. It felt like a chore having to constantly change wiper speeds! First world problems!
If I say my next car is an auto petrol, and I dont want high road tax, and dont want VAG DSG, Ford Powershift, then it doesnt leave much of a choice in my price bracket! The petrol hybrids of Lexus / Toyota seem to be most logical choice. Auto diesels opens it up more, I like the B Class and the Qashqai! After 3 Scenics, Altea and ix35, a Honda Civic feels very low down. It felt good being back up in a higher vehicle, easier to get in to and a better seating position!
Not relevant to the LR, but more to my journey,
I counted 13 different vehicles on hard shoulders with punctures. Not one of them out changing wheels which would suggest there was no spare wheel on board. Made me check the LR, can of gunge in that as well! Wonder if anyone has ever been able to repair a puncture at 70mph with gunge?
A1 roadworks from Scotch Corner - inside lanes closed of with no apparent work being done but a sign up saying Technology works??
My bladder cant pass Scotch Corner without a visit to the loos!
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>>I counted 13 different vehicles on hard shoulders with punctures.
>> Not one of them out changing wheels which would suggest there was no spare wheel on board. >>
There could be many many reasons.
Have not RTFM ( if they have it or know where it is :-(
Not interested in the vehicle, it is only white goods.
Do not know how to change a wheel. It was not taught when I took my test.
Wheel nuts too tight due to tyre experts using the extra tight approach.
No place for a full sized spare.
Run flats so need a new tyre.
Not run flats but tyre wrecked
Finger nails might get dirty/ broken.
Thats what I pay the AA for
Not going to risk trying it.
Wheel too heavy.
No idea about space savers.
Even if it is a really safe place to swap a wheel, overall IMO it is best for 99+% to call for professional help.
>>Made me check the LR, can of gunge in that as well!
Is it still in date? Audi cans of gunge seem to have about two years life only.
£50 replacement for A Q5 sized tyre.
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"overall IMO it is best for 99+% to call for professional help"
I could do your missus if that's all too much of a faff.
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>> There could be many many reasons.
IIRC advice is not to try to change a wheel on hard shoulder. Get out of the car, away from the carriageway, and wait for the experts. Might just try a nearside my self but not faffing on the offside with lorries inches away.
Neighbour had one on his van on Monday. Took a lot of effort, noise and some sweariness to shift overtightened studs with wheelbrace and a hammer.
I should have shown my children how to change a wheel but opportunity never presented itself.
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>> My bladder cant pass Scotch Corner without a visit to the loos!
I dislike Scotch Corner services, but we seem to keep stopping there. We shall be driving to Northumberland in a few days and I have a feeling it will happen again unless I can preempt with a sooner stop.
I've tried Leeming Bar before, not impressed. Probably need to get a bit further off the A1. Nip into Northallerton maybe.
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>> I dislike Scotch Corner services, but we seem to keep stopping there.
I dislike all motorway services with a passion. A little journey planning usually reveals a supermarket or shopping center nearby with unrestricted parking, clean loos, cafes etc. I have seen cars queueing on the slip road to get into a packed MSA which resembles the inside of a zoo cage. Madness!
I travel in two hour sessions, Banbury is two hours from london, two to Leigh, (overnight stop) two to Carlisle, two to home. Easy and no MSAs.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 28 Jun 17 at 09:48
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>> >> I dislike Scotch Corner services, but we seem to keep stopping there.
>>
>> I dislike all motorway services with a passion. A little journey planning usually reveals a
>> supermarket or shopping center nearby with unrestricted parking, clean loos, cafes etc.
Not sure if you are aware of this site, ON, but it is a great resource for this sort of thing.
justoffjunction.co.uk/
It's always worth exploring a bit just for fuel prices if nothing else. My parents live about 5 miles from Oxford services on the M40. Last time I was there, Unleaded was 131.9ppl. The ASDA, barely a mile up the road,was asking 111.9. Ten or more quid a tank difference on most cars!!
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>> Not sure if you are aware of this site, ON, but it is a great
>> resource for this sort of thing.
>>
>> justoffjunction.co.uk/
>>
Thanks, I have used that site when travelling in areas I am not familiar with. Not too many of them as I have been roaming around for a long time. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 28 Jun 17 at 10:16
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Thanks DP, I'll have a look.
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Motorway services have their uses. Whilst would not normally buy a meal or fuel there tthey are fine for a loo break, a quick cup of coffee or buying a pint of milk a loaf of bread and a newspaper. Wouldn't go miles out of my way to find a supermarket cafe or the like which quite frankly can be pretty poor with a congested car park.
MSAs are of course also open when these places are shut which give them a major advantages if you are travelling at night or on Sunday afternoon. They fulfil a purposes and for the most part they do it adequately at least. Easy to denigrate them but I would miss them if they weren't there,
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England is so uncivilised, most of our big supermarkets operate 24/7. My local corner shop is a 24/7 ASDA, and is couple of minutes from a motorway junction.
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I wouldn't call ASDA civilised. :-)
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Nor would I, but it is always open and sells a multitude of food, car fuel, and household tat! :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 28 Jun 17 at 11:11
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Scotch Corner - got parked in the third space in.
Toilets (as always) were immaculate
Greggs (outside) for a coffee and sausage roll.
Was back in the car within 5 mins
Cant complain
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There are few more welcome sights, to a Scotsman far from home, than a Greggs with a short queue.
;-)
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>> There are few more welcome sights, to a Scotsman far from home, than a Greggs
>> with a short queue.
>>
>> ;-)
>>
Steak bake? :-)
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better still a Scotsman with the Greggs app on his phone so that he gets a free coffee for every 7 or whatever bought!
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Thing with Greggs sausage rolls is, they're less than £1.00. And everyone knows that anything that costs less than a £1.00 doesn't count as calories.
;-)
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Wary of Greggs, since they sold me a 'Cornish' pasty that was still frozen in the middle.
Does the Discovery Sport sport a sausage roll holder?
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>>Does the Discovery Sport sport a sausage roll holder?
In this case yes it does, its the Fat Scotsman in the drivers seat!!
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Sausage rolls, pastys and steak bakes ( thanks for the reminder O.N. That'll be on the list of exciting opportunities at Wetherby services tomorrow ! ) can only be eaten standing up, outside the car. Sitting in the car eating them just never ends well.
;-)
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Wed 28 Jun 17 at 14:18
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> I counted 13 different vehicles on hard shoulders with punctures. Not one of them out
>> changing wheels which would suggest there was no spare wheel on board.
That's a very high number in one journey, I can't remember the last car i saw with a flat at the side of the road let alone 13.
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>> I counted 13 different vehicles on hard shoulders with punctures. Not one of them out
>> changing wheels which would suggest there was no spare wheel on board. Made me check
>> the LR, can of gunge in that as well! Wonder if anyone has ever been
>> able to repair a puncture at 70mph with gunge?
13 seems an incredibly large number.
Cross fingers. Here we go.
In 9 years, my space saver spare has never been on the road. If it did happen that I needed to put the spare on, then I would be getting the emergency services people to do it.
I think the wheels are now too heavy for me. i wouldn't dream of doing a wheel change on the offside. No way!
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Since you could see all those punctures I guess they were all on the offside. Changing an offside tyre on the motorway is sheer lunacy. I wouldn't be sitting in e car either, I would be behind the crash barrier.
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>> Since you could see all those punctures I guess they were all on the offside.
>> Changing an offside tyre on the motorway is sheer lunacy. I wouldn't be sitting in
>> e car either, I would be behind the crash barrier.
>>
I have done this once. In the dark and rain on the M3 in SWMBOs old Fiesta Zetec-S. Artics coming within feet of my head at 60 mph
One of a handful of times I have been genuinely terrified in my adult life. Thankfully neither of our cars has a spare now so it's a recovery jobbie.
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Only used the radio for the first time this morning - cant see how to change channels without pressing the touchscreen. Which I need to stretch to reach.
The steering wheel controls don't seem to be able to switch between the presets.
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There's quite a bit about this issue on the various forums. Some talk of a recall to fix the issue.
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>> If I say my next car is an auto petrol, and I dont want high
>> road tax, and dont want VAG DSG, Ford Powershift, then it doesnt leave much of
>> a choice in my price bracket! >>
DSG has some bad press though many love it, however Powershift is generally very well thought of.
There are some great petrol BMWs which are even more efficient with the auto box, which is itself excellent.
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Have read of a whole load of Powershift issues ? Or is that maybe from the HJ site?
A ggogle of powershift problems leads to a whole load of court cases, lawsuits etc though most of these are in Aus / NZ but I assume they dont make different gearboxes for there?
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For what little it's worth Bobby, we have or have had a Passat, a Golf and an Audi A3 on our company fleet with DSG boxes. All three cars developed gearbox problems. The Golf at only 16,000 miles. We also have a couple of Mondeos with Powershift boxes which have been problem free despite substantial ( over 100,000 ) mileages.
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Quite a few DSGs on our old fleet had issues as well, often intermittent ones. Made worse by the fact that the dealer network for VW and Audi seemed completely incapable of diagnosing and fixing them.
A colleague had a CC 177 TDI DSG that used to randomly select neutral when accelerating hard, and require cycling of the ignition to reset. Despite doing this from new, and constant dealer visits (no fault found), it went back to the lease company and presumably on to auction at three years old with the fault still unfixed. Some poor private buyer copped that, and out of warranty as well.
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>> Some poor
>> private buyer copped that, and out of warranty as well.
>>
Decent ex-lease car may well have been bought at auction by the dealer network and sold as approved used. Whatever happened to it, it's unlikely to have gone straight to a private buyer.
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Either way, the dealer won't fix the DSG issue, and the user gets a lemon
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Taking reliability aside, I don't like the DSG from a user stance. It's fine on the move possibly one of the best*, it's the creep and pull away aspect I hate. It's too inconsistent, sometimes creeping, sometimes not and this behaviour is really off-putting when doing tricky parking space nto tight spots. It decides not to creep, and you know a tickle of the throttle is going to result in a lurch.
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Still not sure I'd want one. Actually, I am sure I'd not want one. TC or manual for me please.
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Same for me, Z. I had one for a week and never got on with it at all for that exact reason. Fine on the move, but very inconsistent at slow speeds
As mine was a company car, the CO2 penalty that DSG carried over the manual equivalent was also irritating (and added about £30 a month to the tax bill)
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>> Have read of a whole load of Powershift issues ? Or is that maybe from
>> the HJ site?
>> A ggogle of powershift problems leads to a whole load of court cases, lawsuits etc
>> though most of these are in Aus / NZ but I assume they dont make
>> different gearboxes for there?
>>
HJ has praised the Powershift over the DSG on numerous occasions IIRC, and yes I would imagine that they are different boxes in Aus and NZ, just like they use the Ecoboost badge for all sorts of turbo petrol engines.
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There were early powershift issues on Ford cars in the UK, a fair few focus but mostly Fiesta. seem to be fixed now tho
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>> Same here, moved on from manual boxes and clutches, and no more DMFs!
>>
To me, the worst thing about DSG is it has all of those things!!
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I can't help wondering if the problems most people have with the DSG when manouvering using creep is the auto-hold function on VWs that is standard on many. I doubt it's the gearbox itself - it's either in reverse or first gear and just creeping... except you can't use the brake to control speed without it going onto auto-hold.
So if you're reversing back slowly for example, and touch the brakes to stop, then it goes on hold and won't creep until either you turn off auto-hold or accelerate. But you weren't accelerating in the first place when you were reversing so don't really want to press the accelerator. So you end up with the car lurching when you do hit the accelerator. And then brake again... and it's on auto-hold.
When I test drove the Passat CC with DSG in 2011 I didn't like it when parking it up. It was only after I got a manual version which also had auto-hold that I twigged the problem I had experienced.
With DSG I don't think auto-hold should be an option. Certainly not standard. I don't have it on the A3 and it's fine when it's parking.
Now when I had the Passat GTE demo, not only was auto-hold a pain when parking (so I turned it off) but it kept switching from electric and ICE. I suppose you'd get used to it.
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IIRC DSG uses one clutch though Powershift is clever in that it uses two, one for the even ratio and one for the odd, so more like Porsches PDK I believe. (What's the other VAG system called? I think it might be torque converter.)
Though when the torque converter ZF in a BMW, Jag or MB can offer 8 or more ratios, almost instant changes (if you choose) and more efficiency than a manual one wonders about the reasons for automated manuals, except perhaps in supercars.
Last edited by: Hard Cheese on Wed 28 Jun 17 at 16:57
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The gear changes in my Merc are almost imperceptible ( even with its airport taxi engine )
I like.
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>> The gear changes in my Merc are almost imperceptible ( even with its airport taxi
>> engine )
>>
You mean you can't hear the changes over the racket?
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Oh very good ! ( that'll cost you mind )
;-)
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>> Oh very good ! ( that'll cost you mind )
>>
>> ;-)
>>
I meant with the sunroof open, what did you think I meant ;-)
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>> IIRC DSG uses one clutch though Powershift is clever in that it uses two,
DSG uses two clutches, either wet multiplate or dry single plate in the case of the DQ200.
PDK and Mitsubishi SST as used on the Evo and some Outlanders are essentially similar.
VW had a fairly consistent naming system for a while, Tiptronic meant 'standard' auto with TC, plus direct sequential selection via the shift lever or column switches. Multitronic was CVT, and then there is DSG (Dual Shift Gearbox) also called S-tronic when fitted to an Audi.
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>> I can't help wondering if the problems most people have with the DSG when manouvering
>> using creep is the auto-hold function on VWs that is standard on many. I doubt
>> it's the gearbox itself - it's either in reverse or first gear and just
I have tried it with auto hold on or off, and it's slow speed or creep from stop varies day by day at the same spots. reversing is a pain, roundabout approaches are a pain mix that with start stop and it's a ruddy nightmare. oh yes, I haven't found a way to reliably disable start stop either
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I'm in a pickle with the Roomster. I had always had a notion that I might change it when it was out of warranty (it has a dry-clutch DSG) but the boss has threatened me with unspecified retribution if I get rid of it.
The DSG is great on the move, less so when manoeuvring as others have said. Ours has hill hold (I have no idea if or how this differs from auto-hold) but that doesn't really interfere. The Outlander with a Jatco 6 speed and torque converter can be literally inched without difficulty. The Roomster on the other hand will probably end up damaging the garage door at some point.
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>> With DSG I don't think auto-hold should be an option. Certainly not standard. I don't
>> have it on the A3 and it's fine when it's parking.
>>
We never use it in Tiguan. And unlike some things (ie stop/start) if you turn it off it stays off.
It's completely un-necessary in an auto, plus I didn't like the way the brake lights went off. On later models they stay on when auto-hold engages.
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>> It's completely unnecessary in an auto,
Not a necessity maybe, in anything if the user can actually drive, but given that it is proscribed by the Manuel to hold the car on the accelerator, presumably you either use both feet (most people don't) or the handbrake?
I had guessed, perhaps wrongly, that hill hold was standard on the Roomster to help dissuade people from the DSG-unfriendly habit of using the accelerator to hold the car stationary. Then I discovered that auto-hold or hill-hold was an option on rtj's Audi.
However - I have since been told that auto-hold works all the time when the car is brought to a stop, whereas hill-hold only works on a >=5 degree gradient.
This might be further complicated by the presence or otherwise of an automatic parking brake.
I'm not agin technology, or progress, but I dislike a car that can have me wondering "what is it doing now?" It can only lead to mishaps when at some point it does not do what is expected of it, whether that be a problem with the doing or the expectation.
My experience over many years of asking dealer staff how just about anything works has been appalling.
I am loving the Outlander with its old fashioned automatic gears and handbrake. I take the blame for everything it does, and happy to do so. I put up with the hill hold!
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Manatee, add in to the mix that many old folk, like my 85 year old dad, drive automatics.
That would confuse the life out of him with worrying consequences!
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>> presumably you either use both feet (most people don't) or the handbrake?
>>
Both feet - it's handy that the brake pedal is suitably wide! Never use the electric brake either, unless stopping for a long time, or parking, on a slope.
>> Then I discovered that auto-hold or hill-hold was an option on rtj's Audi.
>>
Certainly it was standard on Tiguan - as far as I know it's standard on all VW's, where available (ie it's not an optional item). I could be wrong about that, though.
>> I'm not agin technology, or progress, but I dislike a car that can have me
>> wondering "what is it doing now?" It can only lead to mishaps when at some
>> point it does not do what is expected of it, whether that be a problem
>> with the doing or the expectation.
>>
I think what's supposed to happen is you're not meant to think about it. The car (or at least its designers) assumes we're all thick. If you're getting confused now, you'll love autonomous braking, where the car stops itself dead and you thought there was no problem!
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My posting about DSG and auto-hold got me thinking of the experience of the Passat GTE when reverse/parallel parking. And I struggled a bit but didn't wait to figure out the problem but sort of thinking what it might be.
I first forgot to switch off auto-hold and when reversing I touched the brakes and it stopped. So immediately turned it off. But I struggled and I think it might have been the hybrid but I'd need another demo to prove it.
Basically if you ever lift off in the Passat GTE under normal driving it will kill the engine. And it seemed to do this (maybe) with low speed manoeuvres. It certainly stopped moving. And I'm not sure it would creep on electric mode because you need to push the accelerator.
In the end I kept switching it to/from hybrid/e-mode and got the motor running to creep in. But it kept switching off and then not creeping.
Luckily I am probably about to order a Skoda DSG and not a VW GTE.
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Our A3 has a DSG box and no auto-hold. A £75 option I think. I can't say I've noticed any issue with hesitation / indecision in gear selection no matter what conditions you throw at it. The gearbox seems absolutely fine to me, and that's with it juggling and electric motor and an engine. For low speed manoeuvring it almost always uses the electric motor. There is no 'creep', but it's incredibly easy to modulate the throttle at low speeds creating 'creep' in EV mode beacaue, I assume, all of the torque is available from zero revs. Having said that, it will sometimes use the engine (low temperature or completely flat battery) and I'm not sure if it 'creeps' then or not. But ether way modulating the throttle has the same effect, so perhaps it's still assisted by the electric motor?
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>> There is no 'creep', but it's incredibly easy to modulate the throttle at low speeds creating 'creep' in EV mode
That's the bit I'm not used to and hoped you'd respond for all. Because for me it just stopped and knowing how a petrol auto (TC or DSG) will respond with accelerator when manoeuvring... I didn't prod the pedal to move. I expected it to creep like my DSG 1.4 Audi.
I have had no issues with a VW 1.4TSI engine with 7-speed dry clutch DSG over the last 2.75 years.... so about to order another VW group car with the same. But this time a bigger Superb.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 29 Jun 17 at 20:13
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>> I have had no issues with a VW 1.4TSI engine with 7-speed dry clutch DSG
>> over the last 2.75 years.... so about to order another VW group car with the
>> same. But this time a bigger Superb.
>>
That's a big car for the engine size, what is the next engine up?
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I've had a few A4 1.4 TFSi hire cars recently, albeit in manual form. I think it's basically the same 150PS engine as our A3 and i thought the performance was perfectly acceptable. In reality it's the same power output as the A4 1.8 T I had 20 years ago and, I suspect, a pretty similar weight. It's a much bigger car though than it's predecessor though!
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>> In reality it's the same power output as the A4 1.8 T I had 20 years ago
I had the VW group 1.8T petrol engine in 4 cars. In 1999 a Golf GTI. In 2000, first an A4 1.8T Sport followed by two Passat 1.8T's. That engine was fine in all those cars and the current 1.4TSI has more torque (250Nm vs. 205Nm).
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>> That's a big car for the engine size, what is the next engine up?
You keep saying it's not a big enough engine. It is. The car is bigger than an A3 saloon but not much heavier. It's a lot bigger inside - a lot of empty space if you think about it. Not so much mor metal :-) So give it a rest.
Next petrol size up as you well know is a 2 litre 220PS engine with much higher emissions.
Have you actually driven a VW group car with the current 1.4 TSI 150PS engine?
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 29 Jun 17 at 22:35
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>> So give it a rest.
>>
Hmm, it's simply my opinion, it is a motoring forum after all.
>> Next petrol size up as you well know is a 2 litre 220PS engine with much higher emissions.
>>
No, I had no idea, I would have guessed that there might be a 1.8. I have just Googled and the 2.0 seems to be 147g/km, which is pretty good for a 220ps large saloon. I wonder how much extra that would cost you, I guess you have done the sums, and perhaps you have driven both engines, though I would certainly want to drive both as unless the bigger engine is flawed in some way I reckon I would be willing to pay a reasonable amount extra for the more effortless performance.
Each to their own.
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Simple maths said 146g/km is taxed at 28% in 2017/18 and 122g/km is taxed at 23%. Factor in a higher list price and the difference for a 40% tax payer for BIK for a car with the options I want is £40pm which goes up year on year. Plus monthly rental is more.
Not a huge sum but over say 3 years the total will be close to £1700.
Unless you put the 220PS DSG car in one of it's more sporty modes, it's actually quite reluctant to accelerate unless you depress the accelerator quite a way and then it takes off.
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Actually the difference in monthly rental per month is £58. So after tax the difference between the 1.4TSI and 2.0TSI DSG cars is enough to put me off :-)
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>> Actually the difference in monthly rental per month is £58. So after tax the difference
>> between the 1.4TSI and 2.0TSI DSG cars is enough to put me off :-)
>>
So £98 a month all in?
Thinking about it, could you get a BMW 125i 5dr, 224bhp and 134g/km?
Last edited by: Hard Cheese on Fri 30 Jun 17 at 00:01
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>> Thinking about it, could you get a BMW 125i 5dr, 224bhp and 134g/km?
And does a 125i have rear leg room comparable to a Skoda Superb or even a VW Passat? :-) And is the boot space around 500 litres?
Yes I could get a 125i. I could get a 330i. But it will cost more than a Superb 1.4TSI DSG. And be smaller too.
I'm not too bothered about performance.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 30 Jun 17 at 00:32
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No doubt a stupid question, certainly uninformed, but what's a Skoda feel like?
It used to be Skoda -> VW -> Audi in sort of quality feel. I know the VW/Audi difference fell away, I had a Phaeton.
But what about Skoda? I had one on a few weeks hire about 10 years ago, and it was ok, but it certainly wasn't a quality vehicle. So how are they now?
I can't go and drive one to find out for myself, they don't really exist here.
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>> but what's a Skoda feel like?
A VW. The Superb does anyway. I can't comment on the lower spec cars. In fact put a VW badge on the front of the Superb and you've got a nicer car to look at than a Passat IMO.
The comfort seats in the Passat perhaps have the edge and steering felt a little more precise. But for the money, going for the SE or above in the Superb you get 12 way electric adjustable driver seat which one could argue could be got more comfortable than a manually adjustable comfort seat in the Passat.
Many of the controls inside are straight out of a VW.
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>>Have you actually driven a VW group car with the current 1.4 TSI 150PS engine?
I haven't. But I typically don't like little engines. Its not so much their performance, I rarely rush around these days anyway. I just like the feel of driving a large engine.
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>> I can't help wondering if the problems most people have with the DSG when manouvering
>> using creep is the auto-hold function on VWs that is standard on many. I doubt
>> it's the gearbox itself - it's either in reverse or first gear and just creeping...
>> except you can't use the brake to control speed without it going onto auto-hold.
>>
I think you've hit the nail on the head there.
My Transporter has DSG and auto-hold and the only time it becomes jerky is if I try and power out of the auto-hold on a hill. Work around that and everything is fine.
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On the A3 with the EPG I can disengage it easily without accelerating at all in two ways:
1. Press the foot brake twice
2. Press the accelerator gently.
Both will disengage the EPG and then the vehicle would creep forward (or back).
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Why are modern cars so ruddy complex?
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Discovery Sport - R.P.
