Think yourself lucky you don't have Scottish politicians, you would get a huge vanity project bridge done on the cheap with not enough lanes instead of a sensible tunnel.
www.thecourier.co.uk/category/news/scotland/
Hopefully it will settle down after the novelty wears off but it has no more capacity than the old bridge.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 12 Sep 17 at 08:17
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>> Think yourself lucky you don't have Scottish politicians, you would get a huge vanity project
>> bridge done on the cheap with not enough lanes instead of a sensible tunnel.
Oh, it's not all bad news, at least the Scottish politicians would get the English to pay for it.
Well, they do for everything else!
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They are self serving, not stupid. :-)
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Be cheaper to move the stones and stick 'em in a museum under cover.
;-)
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Leave the stones alone, they were there before we were:)
Pat
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Leave it as it is would be my call. In the context of its 5000 year existence the road is a passing issue. It will be gone anyway in a few decades as its superceded by newer transport. By the someone will be trying to preserve the road as an arteface ;-).
Seriously though with a site that old whatever we do now will turn out to be ill-advised when seen by later generations. Do as little as necessary to keep it safe.
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Stick the road under the surrounding archaeology and returning the site to how it was when built is a grand idea. Hindhead is a perfect example of how it can be done well. But then the history of Hindhead was all about the old A3 and that has disappeared~!
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Hindhead is a totally different thing altogether.
Hidhead works very well.
Stonehenge has Ley Lines and as yet, undiscovered secrets...leave it be and don't even think about digging beneath it.
Half the people who sit in the traffic queues do so to see it anyway, without paying.
Pat
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>> Stonehenge has Ley Lines and as yet, undiscovered secrets...leave it be and don't even think
>> about digging beneath it.
Ley lines are a modern myth, I could invent a new one tomorrow, and the archaeology is not 100 feet deep.
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If the Ley Lines get disturbed, Father Xmas may not find his way home?
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Hindhead and the Devil's Punchbowl are a good comparison, the tunnel would be deep enough and the entrances remote enough that it would do nothing as far as disturbing ley lines etc and the landscape once complete would be much improved, as would the traffic flow, so therefore so would the air quality.
I travel that way often on my way up to Surrey and London and it would be great to wind the windows down, put it in sport mode and drive through the tunnel at 6000rpm aka Hindhead and the druids wouldn't even hear a thing ...
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....but Karma will get you all:)
You may well mock my beliefs, but we'll see;)
You think I'm jesting!
>> I could invent a new one tomorrow<<
You'll be telling me you can walk on water next.
Pat
Last edited by: Pat on Tue 12 Sep 17 at 17:08
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>> You'll be telling me you can walk on water next.
>>
>> Pat
>>
It's Zero, of course he can! And if he was having a bad day it would part for him. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 12 Sep 17 at 17:21
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Had a good view of Stonehenge today as I trundled past it at 12 mph.
This can't come soon enough. The rest of the A303 works pretty well these days, but this stretch is a definite low point.
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>> Had a good view of Stonehenge today as I trundled past it at 12 mph.
>>
>> This can't come soon enough. The rest of the A303 works pretty well these days,
>> but this stretch is a definite low point.
>>
Agreed. Particularly in the holiday season, it's a damn nuisance as cars slow down to look at the stones, veer towards oncoming traffic and the drivers' attention is nowhere near where it should be; I've had two near misses this year alone when I've nearly ended up with a tourist's car impaled on the front bumper of my lorry.
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British Leylines were rubbish.
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Does the main ley line actually run through Stonehenge?
www.ancient-wisdom.com/Images/countries/English%20pics/stmichaelsmap.gif
This chap and his partner Ba Russell visited me regarding a ley line which ran right through the lounge of our barn conversion when we lived up at Warleggan [I have two of his books]
www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2010/feb/18/hamish-miller-obituary
I have an olde copy of this book too:
www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B073DFGHQ5/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1
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The ley line hypothesis is a type of pseudoscience. A random distribution of a sufficient number of points on a plane will inevitably create alignments of random points purely by chance.
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For me, ley lines go into the baloney hat, from which it is entirely and pleasurably self-indulgent to pick something every so often for mental amusement, but has no actual basis in any sort of reality.
See also UFOs, telekinesis, hypnotic regression, reincarnation, pendulum divination, tarot and so on. All good fun to muse upon sometimes, but not credible with two seconds thought or research. But hey, it passes some of the weary hours between birth and death I suppose.
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>>For me, ley lines go into the baloney hat,<< ;-)
Well there must be "something" in it, I can detect water with both Hazel twigs and Copper wires! - accurate to a few inches in some cases! Twas very useful for finding land drains when I worked on the farms!
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>> Leave the stones alone, they were there before we were:)
I don't think so.
Who do you think put the stones there?
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Stonehenge is the least interesting "Attraction" I have ever seen.
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>> Stonehenge is the least interesting "Attraction" I have ever seen.
>>
If you were to study some ancient history you might find it to be the most fascinating monument you have ever seen.
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>>
>> >>
>>
>> If you were to study some ancient history you might find it to be the
>> most fascinating monument you have ever seen.
>>
Whatever their history, a pile of rocks will never fascinate me.
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More to the point Duncan how do you think 'they' put the stones there?
Pat
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>> More to the point Duncan how do you think 'they' put the stones there?
I don't think 'they' put them there. I think 'we' put them there. 'We' being our ancestors, of course.
How did we do it? Well, it's quite complex, and there are some good accounts, if you care to Google.
It involved dragging large stones across country to rivers, floating said stones down river, then dragging them across country, up ramps and into previously prepared positions. That's how we did it.
That was what you meant, wasn't it?
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Sarcasm doesn't do you justice Duncan.
I really don't need to Google it as it's been an interest of mine for some years now.
Many do buy your Google theory but if studied closely it's far more likely that the stones from Preseli in South Wales were actually moved by glaciers taking a coastal route.
All of the stones range between 2 and 30 tons.
Try the library, they have some interesting reading on the subject.
Pat
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>> Sarcasm doesn't do you justice Duncan.
I wasn't trying to be sarcastic.
You said
"More to the point Duncan how do you think 'they' put the stones there?"
So I told you - one theory, anyway.
Ok, I give up. What did you mean? Is there some hidden agenda here that I haven't grasped?
Spell it out please? Words of one syllable, please?
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The initial post you picked me up on said this >> Leave the stones alone, they were there before we were:)<<
We, as in the present tense, as in us who frequent this forum.
Surely it really wasn't worth picking at, or was it?
It gets tiresome having to explain a simple remark to the point where it's just easier to read and not contribute anything.
I'm sure you know by now that anything like Stonehenge is a particular interest of mine....would I really be asking about their history?
Telling me a 'simple Google' turned it into patronising sarcasm.
There, do you understand that?
Pat
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They were there before anybody living was how I read it.
I'm sure Pat didn't forget that some people put them up, whether or not they dragged them from Wales.
I inferred that Duncan was being droll, it being obvious that Pat was not including Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble in "we".
He has then continued with his wind up.
Hardly worth falling out over or taking offence at though.
I've never been convinced they dragged them from Wales either.
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Phew, well done Manatee, I think you've brought this thread round and may have prevented it becoming another round of playground pettiness.
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>> Hardly worth falling out over or taking offence at though.
>>
Agreed, well summed up!
>> I've never been convinced they dragged them from Wales either.
>>
Who did then? Apparently it's quite easy to prove where the rock originated.
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A glacier HC, a glacier!
Although one would have expected the the same glacier would have deposited quite a few more bits of the material.
Actually it is only the blue stones that come from Wales, so it looks as if they were transported by Fred and Barney, especially as the actual quarry has been found -
www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/1215/071215-stonehenge-bluestone-quarries
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>> A glacier HC, a glacier!
You know the ones that were here during the ice age that we are still coming out of. Climate change is not all down to us, the sun also has an input!
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Glaciers, climate change denial, Trump. He is certainly a terminal moron. (geologist joke).
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You may well all mock me for my interest and beliefs in what some would call a 'load of old baloney'!
I'm used to it and it's water off a ducks back to me now.
The original remark was made TIC assuming everyone would realise that, but it seems Jack Dee is correct and humour and irony are now lost in this world.
I'll just carry on as the 'odd one' celebrating the solstices, finding peace at sacred sites and talking to the trees.
Far more productive than trying to be flippant on here!
Pat
PS Who is Fred Flintstone?
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No, I don't!
I don't watch cartoons, they're not real.
The only cartoons I watch are Simon's Cat (most are less than a minute long)
I don't watch films or read anything but Biographies or auto biographies.
Can't be doing with fairy stories!
I do like documentaries though;)
Pat
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Well I can't say I have gone out of my way to watch the Flintstones for about 50 years either!
>>they're not real.
The 3 year old grandson son of a friend of mine was recently found telling his stuffed animals and his sister's dolls that they aren't real, and explaining to them in detail why they aren't.
>>Can't be doing with fairy stories!
Just so you know, I noticed the irony :)
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>> A glacier HC, a glacier!
>>
And it only deposited half a dozen nicely hewn columns, hmm.
>> Actually it is only the blue stones that come from Wales, so it looks as
>> if they were transported by Fred and Barney, especially as the actual quarry has been
>> found -
>>
I know. And about 10,000 of their mates ...
Last edited by: Hard Cheese on Wed 13 Sep 17 at 16:10
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>>nicely hewn columns, hmm.<<
No HC, a lot of the ancient 'tools' used to shape the columns have been unearthed in the Stonehenge area and they date that far back.
That's why so many of us are against the ground being disturbed.
What's wrong with using the M4 and then the M5:)
Pat
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I imagine they made good use of the M4 to trundle the stones, before the really hard work started at Chippenham.
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>> I imagine they made good use of the M4 to trundle the stones, before the
>> really hard work started at Chippenham.
>>
I suspect the subsequent conversation went along the lines of Chipping? Sod, bury!
;-)
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I never understood why they built Stonehenge so close to the 303 anyway....unless it was convenient to transport the rocks along. About time it was demolished...it'll never be finished now.
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It hasn't got a roof, does it rain down there?
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Good job they got most of the stones there before Beeching cut the Amesbury line
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>> >>nicely hewn columns, hmm.<<
>>
>> No HC, a lot of the ancient 'tools' used to shape the columns have been
>> unearthed in the Stonehenge area and they date that far back.
>>
Irony ... by suggesting that a glacier deposited half a dozen nicely hewn columns I meant the opposite, I was being ironic.
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Aaah, you need to have a word with Jack Dee then so he knows it isn't quite dead.
In my defence I've been up since 01.30 today and working all day:)
Pat
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>>
>> There, do you understand that?
CBA.
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Of course, now with brexit all the European builders will be going home and it will never be finished, they will all be working on the Sagrada Familia
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There is nothing magical or mystical about Stonehenge, its just a display of ignorance of geo science, mixed with hope and fear. Its an early version of the Bible
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 13 Sep 17 at 18:28
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For those that still have beliefs in the "olde ways" Henge's were usually paired, one of stone, one of wood (very few of these have been found due to wood rotting away). Wood - Henge's were used for celebrating life, Births, Marriages and festival events, Stone - Henge's were places to celebrate Ancestors and Death (The stones are communal gravestones and residences of the Spirit). Folk today tend to celebrate it at the wrong time of the year, the Summer Solstice should be celebrated at Sun-set on the solstice to signify the death of the Oak King, at sunrise the next day they would celebrate at the Wood-Henge to signify the take over by the Hollly King who reigns over the winter, then the reverse ceremonies occur at the winter solstice.
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Thought-provoking 'stuff' ike, here's some more info on my dowsing bod:
www.parallelcommunity.com/rememberhamish.html
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Isambard Kingdom Brunel built the box tunnel on the GWR so that the sun shines through it on the summer solstice. Is it mystical? no its a smelly rat infested railway tunnel with over a hundred years of human poo between the rails
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I think that it actually shines through the tunnell on IKB's birthday.
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Very interesting stuff Dog! - I think I would have liked to have met him! In fact it inspired me to try my "skills" again, (I haven't used them now for over Twenty years) but I fashioned a couple of rods from some Copper -wire and ran them over my test area ( the rain - drain in the back street! ;-) ) and lo an behold I've still got it!! ;-).
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I've got some iron tuning forks (as I call them) which I got from Amish when we lived on Bodmin Moor.
I haven't got 'the gift' though unfortunately. My friend Don 'twigged' the ley line on my land back then, as did Amish. T'was quite amazing to see the dowsing rods turn inwards as he (Don) walked over the old track, which led to the Norman (part) church www.haunted-britain.com/warleggan.htm
A farmer's wife I knew back then had 'the gift'. He (the farmer) let me go over his Bronze age burial mounds with my Minelab metal detector and I found 7 Roman sisterti.
The site for my water borehole was found by a dowser, as was my neighbs up in Warleggan.
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Ok Stonehenge problem solved. Kick the glacier, rivers and coast theory into touch, tear up and chuck in the bin the 3000bc diary.
1932 MG towed them there.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-41265294
Simples.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 14 Sep 17 at 19:34
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in Devon for the week now. Arrived this afternoon via the A303. Nooka said that it will be fine past Stonehenge, I said there will be a jam. So we agreed a bet, loser buys lunch.
Jam time southbound was 9 minutes, cleared just past the henge, jam northbound was 6 miles.
Slash a tunnel under it ASAP
Lunch was delicious, pan fried quail in the Boar in Barrington, one of my favourite pubs.
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Why a tunnel?-a few trees or a hedge would do the job!
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Move those stony things! That's the answer!
There's another stony thing at Avebury, which is quite close, they could move the Stonehenge thing there and have the two side by side.
Two for the price of one. Another job jobbed.
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>>Move those stony things! That's the answer!
Yeah, and build some much-kneaded aford-able 'omes on the land.
:o}
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>> Two for the price of one. Another job jobbed.
Excellent solution. You have the job, start Monday, want it finished by Friday morning.
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A303 past Stonehenge. The latest plans - Old Navy
