How would you turn the A9 into an 'electric highway'?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-41551535
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Better make the charging laybys long enough for the queues.
I hope the electricity price is elevated along with highland petrol prices:)
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Range is increasing all the time. Current Zoe, 180 miles. New Leaf, 150. Current Kia Soul, 130. Teslas about 250-400 depending on model.
All real ranges, not pretend ones.
New bigger batteries already announced for Kia and Nissan next year, 2018, putting those numbers up again.
If it takes them two years or so to actually commission and put chargers in, fewer and fewer drivers will ever need them anyway. Hopefully that will counter the increased number of EVs on the road.
You need lots of tiddly chargers at hotels and the like, so you can put in a couple of hundred miles overnight and move on, rather than lots of super eyewateringly expensive rapids in every layby.
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Reckon they are going to put a slot all the way up the middle of each lane ;-)
>> Teslas about 250-400 depending on model.
>>
Not in real life usage.
>> You need lots of tiddly chargers at hotels and the like, so you can put
>> in a couple of hundred miles overnight and move on, rather than lots of super
>> eyewateringly expensive rapids in every layby.
>>
That's no good, I did a trip to London at the weekend, 172miles each way to Greenwich via the M25, a Tesla might just about have got me there though the hotel had no charge points.
You have to be committed to run a electric car, I would have charged my EV on Friday, I would then have gone shopping on Friday night, damn that's 20 miles range gone, better plug it in again. Then on Saturday, as I got nearer to my destination, the range and distance to go would have been quite close, I would have been driving gingerly, biting my nails maybe. And then there would have been nowhere to plug it in, though even if the hotel had charge points my return journey would have been the same enjoyable journey, er - not!
Of course I didn't have to worry about my petrol car being full before leaving home and all I needed to do was put 20 quid of petrol in on the way home and have a pee at the same time (not literally ...).
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In Canada the majority of parking spaces have power supplies for engine block heaters. Until we get that level of infrastructure it is all wishful thinking.
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S’funny but I’ve just looked online to see where I can fuel up with Shell V Power between N Yorks & just N of Aviemore next weekend.
Seems there are more charging points than decent high octane stuff
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There's always BP Ultimate, and you can use 95 if you need to surely?
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Yes. BP Ultimate is my second choice.
And I don’t like whisky and decent beer isn’t available everywhere. Another holiday detox beckons. An alcohol free Speyside Way!
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Carlisle is usually a cheap place to fill up, Shell not far from M6.
I think there's also a Shell on the A9 a bit north of Stirling.
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Thankyou. Might need to refuel several times.
Good job I bought shares in Pantheon a few weeks ago!
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>> S’funny but I’ve just looked online to see where I can fuel up with Shell
>> V Power between N Yorks & just N of Aviemore next weekend.
>> Seems there are more charging points than decent high octane stuff
>>
Do you really believe all that stuff?
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Are you referring to the use of Shell V Power & BP Ultimate vs supermarket fuels Duncan?
If so then a resounding yes.
If it were a company vehicle then I would probably be instructed to use the cheapest, but my own experience, albeit with limited annual mileage of only up to 10k is that the higher octane stuff, with added cleaning additives, is better.
My old Focus, with 143k miles, always used these fuels, and was sweet as a nut. I’d much rather spend a few quid more and have a clean fuel system
I’ve been advised never to use normal supermarket unleaded in my new car. That is also the consensus of opinion on the various owner forums
I even ran my VW Transporters, numerous models over 20 years, on branded diesel fuels, and never suffered any engine problems in all that time. Coincidence? Maybe.
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>> I even ran my VW Transporters, numerous models over 20 years, on branded diesel fuels,
>> and never suffered any engine problems in all that time. Coincidence? Maybe.
>>
I have used supermarket fuels for decades. Never suffered any engine related problems in all that time. Coincidence? Maybe.
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>> Are you referring to the use of Shell V Power & BP Ultimate vs supermarket
>> fuels Duncan?
>> If so then a resounding yes.
If these fuels are as good as you believe, then why don't Shell, BP etc commission independent laboratory tests to demonstrate the superiority of their products?
Because They can't.
>> My old Focus, with 143k miles, always used these fuels, and was sweet as a
>> nut. .....
>> I even ran my VW Transporters, numerous models over 20 years, on branded diesel fuels,
>> and never suffered any engine problems in all that time. Coincidence? Maybe.
My old MB with 215k miles always ran on the cheapest fuel. I sold it because I was getting nervous about the electrics. The engine was as sweet as a nut.
However.
To each his own..........
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A question for Duncan and ON.
If Tesco ordinary and Shell V-power were the same price, which would you buy?
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>> If Tesco ordinary and Shell V-power were the same price, which would you buy?
Tesco, so as to collect club card points.
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>> >> To each his own..........
>>
I had a 2.5 V6 Vectra company car in the late 90's, I started putting Shell Optimax (pre V-Power) in it, I was told not to by the company, I showed them that the average consumption improved from around 28mpg to nearer 31mpg, so it actually saved money, after which they endorsed it.
I also felt that Ultimate and V-Power diesel helped my Mondeo to a trouble free 140k miles from new.
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I am looking forward to the marketing victims who will run their cars on higher priced "Super" electricity. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 11 Oct 17 at 09:25
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>> I am looking forward to the marketing victims who will run their cars on higher
>> priced "Super" electricity. :-)
Or those trying to use economy 7.
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>> I am looking forward to the marketing victims who will run their cars on higher
>> priced "Super" electricity. :-)
>>
I almost always by shell petrol, as it’s the one nearest home. I always buy v power because it attracts more shell points, which turn into more avios. I’m slightly ashamed to say I’m not sure what the price difference is, but I think it’s around 15p a litre. On a 45 litre fill that’s around £7, so for me £20or so a month, or about £250 year extra. Does that make me a marketing victim...? Due to the unique and random promotional activity on v power that level of spend generally gets me 1,200 Avios a quarter. The ‘floor’ value of these is about 0.5p per Avios, so £60 a quarter...£240 a year...
I haven’t tested it in this car, but in my old 2.0T Audi A4 I did. A couple of thousand miles on regular shell and the same on v power showed that the Audi engine was about 5% more economical when using it, though of course I’m sure there were lots of other variables. But I was happy that it meant I was saving *some* money, and more importantly reducing CO2 emissions as well ;)
On a more serious note, it’s inevtable that there will be a higher price for ‘’super’ electricity. Its already in place. It’s just that the ‘super’ refers to the current and therefore rate of charge. You want a 10 minute charge? Sure, that’s 20p / KwH Bit pricey? How about 10p. It’ll take you 20 minutes though...
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>> I also felt that Ultimate and V-Power diesel helped my Mondeo to a trouble free 140k miles from new.
My Mondeo ( same model as yours, but the estate as I recall? ) went on to 196,000 trouble free miles on Morrisons diesel. In fairness, sometimes it got treated to Sainsburys...
;-)
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>> >> I also felt that Ultimate and V-Power diesel helped my Mondeo to a trouble
>> free 140k miles from new.
>>
>> My Mondeo ( same model as yours, but the estate as I recall? ) went
>> on to 196,000 trouble free miles on Morrisons diesel. In fairness, sometimes it got treated
>> to Sainsburys...
>> ;-)
>>
I think that’s because the estate was tuned to be more ‘workman’ like and so happy to accept lesser fuels. Grateful for any fuel at all I imagine, never mind a brief stop at a Morrisons ;)
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Don't be rude Duncan:)
I am prepared to pay extra for V-power or Ultimate petrol because both our petrols are direct injection. In the past DI engines have been vulnerable to carbon build up in the inlet tract and on the valves, caused by incomplete combustion. I suspect there will be problems with some of the newer DI engines as they age.
A late friend was a fuel chemist, a proper one who worked for a consultancy in Rotterdam on EU fuel standards among other things. His general advice was to buy fuel from one of the majors, Shell, BP, Total, Exxon, as they spent the most money on researching additives - which apart from the octane number, is the only constant difference between brands of petrol.
I don't need a higher octane number than 95. In LL's case, I suspect the car can adjust to take advantage of the higher octane number. Add that to the major brand reasoning and V-power does not seem an illogical choice if he is prepared to pay for it.
I also use v-power diesel. On my last car, it extended the DPF regen intervals from c. 350 to c. 600 miles, so I concluded it was producing less residue. My current diesel which is Euro 6 doesn't make whatever it is doing so obvious, but I have continued with the super-diesel.
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>> I also use v-power diesel. On my last car, it extended the DPF regen intervals
>> from c. 350 to c. 600 miles, so I concluded it was producing less residue.
>> My current diesel which is Euro 6 doesn't make whatever it is doing so obvious,
>> but I have continued with the super-diesel.
>>
Diesels are soot generators, they need all the help they can get. However mine ran OK on supermarket stuff, it must have met the EN 590 spec.
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>> Don't be rude Duncan:)
>>
>> I am prepared to pay extra for V-power or Ultimate petrol because both our petrols
>> are direct injection. In the past DI engines have been vulnerable to carbon build up
>> in the inlet tract and on the valves, caused by incomplete combustion. I suspect there
>> will be problems with some of the newer DI engines as they age.
Nearly every modern petrol engine is DI. Excessive carbon build up (as in the GDI) was a product of poor head design, insufficient rail pressure, simple injectors and simple electronic ignition. All now cured. The only worry will be, on all cars, gummed/carbon build up on injectors destroying the spray pattern. But they are changeable.
You can go the expensive fancy petrol every fill route (unnecessary expense) An injector cleaner every xn fills (much much cheaper but complicated) or the fill it with fancy fool when you are feeling flush (ha ha see what I did there) or at your whim.
I am a whim type fueler. Apart from a 1999 scenic, never found it to make a blind bit of difference.
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>>You can go the expensive fancy petrol every fill route (unnecessary expense) An injector cleaner every xn fills (much much cheaper but complicated) or the fill it with fancy fool when you are feeling flush (ha ha see what I did there) or at your whim.
Fancy injectors, another tick for superfuels. Like modern diesels, DI engines including the Mazda Skyactive-G in the MX-5 use multihole injectors to produce a precise spray pattern. The argument for the fuel or additive with the best cleaning properties is potentially as valid for these as with the diesels.
I would run that rocket ship of yours on the best stuff if it were mine. Changing injectors is hardly trivial maintenance.
I won't be surprised if some of the lower mileage ecoboosty-type things start conking out with coke build up as they age. As there hasn't been an epidemic, I suspect the higher mileage ones are generally OK.
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>> I would run that rocket ship of yours on the best stuff if it were
>> mine. Changing injectors is hardly trivial maintenance.
At 23mpg and 15k miles pa, its unlikely to get expensive stuff every fill. Tho BMW power plants have in the past been very unforgiving of poor quality fuel I know.
I can get 250ml redex shots for 3 quid a go, so I might go that route as and when I feel the need
>> I won't be surprised if some of the lower mileage ecoboosty-type things start conking out
>> with coke build up as they age. As there hasn't been an epidemic, I suspect
>> the higher mileage ones are generally OK.
This short range, always cold, never worked hard malarky does all engines in.
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>> At 23mpg and 15k miles pa, its unlikely to get expensive stuff every fill.
>>
Reckon you'll get more than 23mpg unless all you're going to do is nip up the road for a kebab from the van by the Black Prince, and if that is your typical journey then all the more reason to use super u/l.
>> I can get 250ml redex shots for 3 quid a go, so I might go
>> that route as and when I feel the need
I don't think BMW would recommend Redex though they would recommend super u/l so I know what I'd do.
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>> I don't think BMW would recommend Redex though they would recommend super u/l so I
>> know what I'd do.
The B58 is designed to run on 90 octane upwards. Ie Uk Ron 95.
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>>
>> The B58 is designed to run on 90 octane upwards. Ie Uk Ron 95.
>>
Yes though it'll be more efficient on higher octane.
BMW would say that it is designed to run on X though we recommend Y.
The B58 also has a novel approach to charge cooling, I'd put Shell or BPs Finest* in it wherever possible, particularly if I had spent nearly 50k of my own smackers on it.
*Perhaps not Tesco's Finest though as their 99 RON contains more ethanol which is not universally accepted as ideal.
Last edited by: Hard Cheese on Wed 11 Oct 17 at 15:34
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>> The B58 also has a novel approach to charge cooling,
The low temperature cooling system (separate radiator &header tank) for the charge cooler you mean?
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> The low temperature cooling system (separate radiator &header tank) for the charge cooler you mean?
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This is a comparative diagram:
f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1395494&stc=1&d=1459874681
Though what is does not explain is that the B58 does not have an intercooler as such, rather it uses an air to liquid cooling system that sits on top of the engine.
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entid=1395494&stc=1&d=1459874681
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>> Though what is does not explain is that the B58 does not have an intercooler
>> as such, rather it uses an air to liquid cooling system that sits on top
>> of the engine.
Yes as I said, it has a completely separate low temperature cooling system. The low temperature radiator sits in front of the engine coolant rad, has its own coolant with its own header tank. The coolant is piped to a heat exchanger in the charge air box where the intake air passes through it.
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>> Yes as I said, it has a completely separate low temperature cooling system. The low
>> temperature radiator sits in front of the engine coolant rad, has its own coolant with
>> its own header tank. The coolant is piped to a heat exchanger in the charge
>> air box where the intake air passes through it.
>>
If it cools the intake air between the turbo and engine it is an intercooler no matter what the cooling process is.
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Perhaps that kind of arrangement is not unusual. The Roomster 1.2TSI has a liquid cooled heat exchanger for the compressed intake air in the inlet manifold, with its own separate coolant circuit and radiator.
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>>
>> If it cools the intake air between the turbo and engine it is an
>> intercooler no matter what the cooling process is.
It is, by application and design. Its not even technically groundbreaking.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 11 Oct 17 at 18:23
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>> >>
>> >> If it cools the intake air between the turbo and engine it is an
>> >> intercooler no matter what the cooling process is.
>>
>> It is, by application and design. Its not even technically groundbreaking.
>>
The BMW system is a little different in that it cools the inlet air as close to the inlet tract as possible, basically on on a per cylinder basis, though whether it's better than an air to air intercooler is the question.
It's clearly partly about cost saving, making as many parts as possible interchangeable between the six variants, three, four and six cylinder, diesel and petrol.
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>> Don't be rude Duncan:)
I see the smiley, but I still don't get it?
Any road up. To repeat my earlier point. If this V Power stuff (or whatever they call it) really is superior why don't the oil companies commission independent research in the laboratory and on the track which would prove conclusively the superiority of their product?
I repeat, because they can't.
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>>Posh "V" fuels.
Two clients, both fuel suppliers:
One an actual refinery, advise that it is all the same stuff and lorries from Tesco, BP, Shell and Esso would pull up and take the fuel.
The other, a huge distributor, 90% diesel, sells to numerous different users including haulage and "petrol" stations. All the same stuff again. Acknowledges different octanes but no different additives and the fuel is taken from different refineries depending on price.
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>> "petrol" stations. All the same stuff again. Acknowledges different octanes but no different additives and
>> the fuel is taken from different refineries depending on price.
The additives are added at delivery to the garage tank.
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>> The additives are added at delivery to the garage tank.
I'm sure it was previously mentioned on the HJ site by a fuel delivery driver that the additives were added at the storage depot. Each driver had a special key which told the system what additives to put in their tanker, depending on who they were collecting on behalf of.
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That is as described to me by one of my erstwhile neighbours who used to drive tankers from Buncefield.
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I believe most additives are added at the fuel distributors depot although there are fuel tanker systems.
www.flotechps.com/additive-and-blending/additive/additive-systems/
mechtronic.ltd.uk/addflow/
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Interesting. I think that comprehensively scotches the idea that it's all the same stuff.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Wed 11 Oct 17 at 21:03
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It does, but what is added and is it worth it
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>> It does, but what is added and is it worth it
>>
To the seller, marketing + added value = more profit. :-)
I don't think anyone sells "raw" fuel, it has to meet the statutory specs.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 11 Oct 17 at 21:13
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That of course is the question. I don't think we are going to get an answe to that. Personally I fill up wherever is the most convenient and buy the regular stuff.
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I do the same.
I find filling with fuel an absolute a***, though fortunately here the petrol stations are still manned, but even so.
So consequently I drive it until the last minute and then fill it to the brim, just trying to get the largest interval possible. Almost without fail I simply go in the next fuel station I see after I've decided I need fuel
And it gets the bog standard stuff.
And honestly, never ever have I noticed any difference in performance or comfort in any vehicle I have ever owned. Though that might reflect on my awareness as much as anything.
Different fuels may well affect fuel consumption, but I would have no idea. I couldn't tell you within 10mpg what any car gets.
Knowing the price of fuel and knowing how far it'll take you doesn't make it any cheaper or me want/need to drive less. It is what it is.
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>> >>Posh "V" fuels.
>>
>> Two clients, both fuel suppliers:
>>
That's just not true - there are lots of different additives, some have a % of biofuel etc etc etc.
Aside from anything else do you really think that Shell, BP et al can really make claims regarding additives etc if they are not there?
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>> That's just not true - there are lots of different additives, some have a %
>> of biofuel etc etc etc.
All fuels, any, some, some of the time, all of the time, now and again, can contain UP TO 5% bio as and when they feel it. Any brand, any station, expensive or cheap.
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 11 Oct 17 at 15:12
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That's just not true - there are lots of different additives, some have a %
>> of biofuel etc etc etc.
>>
>> Aside from anything else do you really think that Shell, BP et al can really
>> make claims regarding additives etc if they are not there?
>>
A company misleading it's customers, whatever next.
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>>
>>
>> You have to be committed to run a electric car, I would have charged my
>> EV on Friday, I would then have gone shopping on Friday night, damn that's 20
>> miles range gone, better plug it in again. Then on Saturday, as I got nearer
>> to my destination, the range and distance to go would have been quite close, I
>> would have been driving gingerly, biting my nails maybe. And then there would have been
>> nowhere to plug it in, though even if the hotel had charge points my return
>> journey would have been the same enjoyable journey, er - not!
>>
This infrastructure problem was all sorted out in the eighteenth century.
Hotels had recharging points for hay, grooming, etc, and standard stable-service would have included shoeing if required. Or for a long journey you could change horses at one of the big coaching inns.
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Charging points at pubs, will there be the same furore as selling booze at motorway service areas caused?
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>>
>> This infrastructure problem was all sorted out in the eighteenth century.
>> Hotels had recharging points for hay, grooming, etc, and standard stable-service would have included shoeing if required. Or for a long journey you could change horses at one of the
>> big coaching inns.
>>
Hehe!
Though changing horses, like changing batteries and getting on your way, who'd ever have thought of that ...
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>>
>> Though changing horses, like changing batteries and getting on your way, who'd ever have thought of that ...
>>
It's actually a great analogy, today's EV tech is like building the horse into the cart so it has to have a feed and a sleep before you can use it again, rather than changing the horse and rocking on ...
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>> Though changing horses, like changing batteries and getting on your way, who'd ever have thought
>> of that ...
Horses are standard. Battery packs aint. Both have limited range tho.
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>>
>>Battery packs aint.
>>
But they could be ...
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>> >>
>> >>Battery packs aint.
>> >>
>>
>> But they could be ...
They could, but funnily enough all the coaches and all the horses looked the same.
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>> This infrastructure problem was all sorted out in the eighteenth century.
>> Hotels had recharging points for hay, grooming, etc, and standard stable-service would have included shoeing
>> if required. Or for a long journey you could change horses at one of the
>> big coaching inns.
Wasnt really sorted out. There was no such thing as a long journey, it was a series of short hops with long stops, where you got ripped off at the services for food and drink.
Bit like life with an electric car on the motorway now actually.
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That's a riveting video!
The tree looks unfazed even though it isn't a big one. Sturdy things, trees.
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The videos on these pages are dreadful. One of the journalists (a real one yes) does a piece to camera in one news story in the DP this morning. He looks dreadfully uncomfortable - well out of his comfort zone.
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>> That's a riveting video!
>>
The tree didn't move a fraction throughout the video. It just stood there, doubtless pondering why beings of another species should want to bend a piece of metal round its trunk and then take some photographs of it.
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The A9 into an 'electric highway ? - Manatee
