Chatting to a friend of mine last night and he has on order a new Golf GTE, delivery sometime in the New Year.
He and his partner are consolidating their current two vehicles...she has a 4yo diesel Tiguan and he ‘had’ a Civic Type R. He bought the Type R at 6 months old, owned it for 18months, and it still has less than 5k on the clock.
The Honda has already been taken by the dealer, and he has a credit note of £22,600 to put towards the GTE when it arrives. I don’t know what the Tiguan p/Ex price will be.
Seems the Golf GTE is costing circa £30k. He told me that it will run for 60/70 miles on battery alone, and takes 45 mins to fully charge from a 13A plug.
I don’t want to be the one to burst his bubble, but will watch with interest when it arrives.
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More like 40 miles on battery and 3hrs to fully charge from a 13A plug from what I've read ...
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Here's a table with some info, but not sure where they sourced it.
shop.mobilityhouse.com/de_en/ladezeitenuebersicht
He is definitely quite wrong on both counts, but actual time would depend on how many amps you charge it with. My car has a choice of 6 or 10 on a 13 amp socket, or up to 16 on my wall charger or a public point (requires additional cable, and hey aren't cheap!!)
Last edited by: smokie on Wed 6 Dec 17 at 08:13
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It's a really good car but with these expectations he is going to be disappointed, true battery only mileage is just over 30 realistically
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Isn’t the GTE the equivalent of the A3 e-tron? Ours will do no more than 27 miles on battery alone, and probably 24/25 most of the time. It takes an hour and three quarters to charge from a a 16A charger.
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Still, if you were feeling especially frugal and determined, motorway service areas are generally about 20 miles apart. Might become a bit of a bore having to stop quite so often for quite so long though!
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Though to be fair, if their current car has only done 5k miles in 18 months then they should be able to at least match our 90mpg or so average over 15k miles a year.
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drivethedeal.com currently have the Golf GTE for £24,667 (well £24,929 for a white one as the 'free' flat grey paint is totally gash).
If he had a 2009 or earlier diesel he'd get another 4 grand off as VW scrappage.
If he lived in Scotland he could get 6yrs 0% finance with no deposit.
And free juice from public chargers.
And a free home charger (which he can probably get in England too)
Last edited by: Lygonos on Tue 5 Dec 17 at 14:21
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The official range on battery is 32 miles (i.e. 50km). He might be disappointed. And it takes much longer than 45 minutes to fully charge. From a 13 amp socket it will be nearer 3.5 hours I would think.
Hope he doesn't think it will achieve 166mpg in real world driving conditions.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 5 Dec 17 at 14:59
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. He told me that it will run
>> for 60/70 miles on battery alone, and takes 45 mins to fully charge from a
>> 13A plug.
>> I don’t want to be the one to burst his bubble, but will watch with
Snigger.. another punter with naive optimism greater than his knowledge..
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Yep. From what I heard it was an impulse buy....current car needed two new front tyres and the idea of getting much more mpg appealed.
Despite paying top dollar circa £30k. And 3k annual mileage. And a private cash purchase so no BIK benefit. And not seeing how much the same car would cost from DtheD or CarWow.
Mind you when splashing out pots and kettles spring to mind...
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>> Mind you when splashing out pots and kettles spring to mind...
>>
...well, you don't live over-far from Glasshouses, do you......?
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Anyway, isn't it time for a bit of an update on Barbie's dream car LL? Scratched any alloys or dinged any panels yet?
;-)
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Thanks for asking. Nothing to report. Nice driving experience, comfortable ride on the 20†standard alloys, power readily available on tap when required, pleasant airy interior with the pano roof.
Does what it says on the tin.
Both Ken & Barbie are happy bunnies. I’ve not even looked at the manual yet, frittering away lots of time in warmer climes. Might spend several hours on Xmas and Boxing day’s reading the manual unless I’m insulating the loft or out walking the fells. I give Christmas a swerve these days.
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>> Snigger.. another punter with naive optimism greater than his knowledge..
>>
He sounds like the guy with the eight week Leaf. :-)
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He will be disappointed because he thinks it will go further and charge quicker than VW itself have ever said.
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It makes you wonder what sort of person buys a Civic Type R and then does such a low mileage. If he enjoys driving, then get a life - take it out and have fun with it. If his car is just a occasional tool to get from A to B, a 'cooking' Civic would have done the job just as well.
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Dealer probably lied to him. He's expecting a 45 minute at home charge to give 60 miles at tuppence. Justified the purchase as such.
Come February they will be livid.
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Of course the dealer should manage his expectations by saying that it has a 20 mile range on battery and takes four hours to charge so he is pleased when it does 30 miles and charges in three hours. Though that would sound s***e and few would buy one, so I guess they would rather make false promises to take the order and take the flak ...
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> Though that would sound s***e
Better to lie to customers? The GTE is aimed at company car drivers. Who can justify £30k+ for purchase price? Even at zero pence per mile a petrol or diesel equivalent will be cheaper.
The friend of Legacylad is thick if he thought the Golf will do the range and quick charging from 13amp. Or he's been convinced and lied to. If the latter he has grounds to reject the car?
Expectation management aside.... the car could never do more than 30 miles in the most ideal environment. It will actually never really do 30 miles. To claim it will do 50-60 is a lie.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 6 Dec 17 at 02:11
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>> Expectation management aside.... the car could never do more than 30 miles in the most
>> ideal environment. It will actually never really do 30 miles. To claim it will do
>> 50-60 is a lie.
>>
Would be interesting to hear from users of hybrids on here as to real MPG from a hybrid.
From my long test of a Prius and short test of a GTE before ordering for delivery next March my expectation, given that I do about 17-18 k miles a year currently, I expect about the same, maybe slightly better overall, as a diesel and way better than a pure petrol, as an average mileage taking traffic etc into account not just a single journey. With my driving and current type of journeys I expect to get low 50s overall, my current diesel golf averages 48 overall.
Incidentally there are a lot of users on the GTE forum who reckon more than 50% of their mileage is on battery but nobody claims more than 30 miles between charges.
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>> I expect about the same, maybe slightly better overall, as a diesel and way better than a pure petrol
You will be disappointed. You'll only get high mpg if you plug it in regularly.
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Yes, I can't see how you can do 17k plus and better a diesel MPG. Unless perhaps your mileage is a 100 mile ish round trip commute and you can charge ar home and work.
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>> Yes, I can't see how you can do 17k plus and better a diesel MPG.
>> Unless perhaps your mileage is a 100 mile ish round trip commute and you can
>> charge ar home and work.
>>
Bettering my diesel overall consumption expectation is based on the week with the Prius which was a pure hybrid with no plug in bonus and the consumption overall was over 60mpg according to the trip (not enough time to get proper tankful type measurement)
That figure is better than I have ever had as an average over that kind of mix of driving in any of the last 19 years of having diesels.
As I said in my other post, lets not get to hung up on mileage, it will be what it will be, when I get really worried how good my mileage is I will give up driving.
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>> Yes, I can't see how you can do 17k plus and better a diesel MPG.
>> Unless perhaps your mileage is a 100 mile ish round trip commute and you can
>> charge ar home and work.
>>
Ours does around 14k miles a year, which is just over 250 Miles a week. How I do not know!!
Though actually, 150 miles are three 50 mile round trips to the hospital, of which 20 of each 50 is on battery and the remainder in hybrid mode
The other 100 or so is a series of sub 10 mile journeys all done on battery
It’ll occasionally do a 4/500mile trip in hybrid mode. I’m in Spain for a couple of days and can’t remember exactly, but the long term average fuel consumption is north of 90mpg - far more than we’d get from a diesel I am sure
Edited to add, it wasn’t bought for its fuel economy, just as a well equipped A3,but it has prove to be remarkably economical. Offset in part by its need for servicing every 9,000 miles at an Audi dealer ;)
Last edited by: PeterS on Wed 6 Dec 17 at 18:25
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>> Offset in part by its need for servicing every 9,000 miles at an Audi dealer ;)
And not every Audi dealer can service the eTron... just like not every VW dealer can service a Golf or Passat GTE.
Your long term average as you know is because you are able to do so many miles on electric along. So about 54% of the Audi claim for mpg for one of these.
For your use model it's an ideal car. It would be for me if I could charge it safely outside the house. Most months driving could be done with electric alone.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 6 Dec 17 at 21:24
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>> Ours does around 14k miles a year, which is just over 250 Miles a week.
>> How I do not know!!
>>
Your profile seems almost ideal for the genre Peter, though someone with a long commute who cannot charge at work or a travelling salesman doing a 150 miles a day would not achieve diesel mpg I reckon (though for the latter the BiK may be beneficial currently).
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>> Your profile seems almost ideal for the genre Peter, though someone with a long commute
>> who cannot charge at work or a travelling salesman doing a 150 miles a day
>> would not achieve diesel mpg I reckon (though for the latter the BiK may be
>> beneficial currently).
>>
Doing long journeys and never charging it does see to be pretty economical - certainly on a par with diesel I think. High 50s to mid 60s mpg achievable in normal use. Used in stop start traffic, or A/B roads, and no charging almost certainly not. It did 37mpg between Smithfield Market and Croydon on a Monday morning in those circumstances!
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>> Doing long journeys and never charging it does see to be pretty economical - certainly
>> on a par with diesel I think. High 50s to mid 60s mpg achievable in
>> normal use. Used in stop start traffic, or A/B roads, and no charging almost certainly
>> not. It did 37mpg between Smithfield Market and Croydon on a Monday morning in those
>> circumstances!
>>
Is that motorway running pure ICE use or is that hybrid use where it will reclaim a small amount of battery coasting / braking. how often do you find the battery comes in to assist on motorway hills for example.
Do you ever use the ICE engine to charge the battery and if so have you worked out if/when that is worth it?
Do you ever use GTE mode for a bit of fun?
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>> how often do you find the battery comes in to assist on motorway hills for example.
On a motorway the 1.4 150PS petrol engine is more than capable of going up hills. Electric assistance is not needed. You can force it into electric only mode up to about 79mph but it won't last long. Driving on the motorway at a steady speed it will operate almost totally as an ICE and will charge the battery a bit too. Lift off and it will switch off the engine totally but put it on cruise and it will keep the petrol engine running.
However, drop down to lower speeds (roadworks for example) and stop-start traffic on the motorway and providing it has the charge, and it's in hybrid mode, then it will use the electric motor.
>> Do you ever use GTE mode for a bit of fun?
The synthesised engine noise is pretty naff if you use that mode.
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I was puzzled when mine was using Battery Only on motorway when I had requested use ICE. Apparently there is a small buffer (built up by regeneration) which it will always try to use when it can. There is a graphic showing where the power is being drawn from and it's quite interesting (well, in a nerdy sort of way) to see it switching around so much.
I did wonder if mine had something wrong but the forum says not.
Think I've previously mentioned the gear setting which maximises regen, it causes quite powerful engine braking such that the brakes are rarely used. Someone on the forum said it's the first car they've had where they aren't regularly cleaning the brake dust from the alloys!!
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>> t's quite interesting (well, in a nerdy sort of way) to see it switching around so much
>>
They do kind of encourage the nerdy side of one, don't they
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>> >> how often do you find the battery comes in to assist on motorway hills
>> for example.
>>
>> On a motorway the 1.4 150PS petrol engine is more than capable of going up
>> hills. Electric assistance is not needed.
>>
Also true of the Prius but the electric still cut in to maintain the economy, for example on the hill up to M40 J5 southbound. Just wondered whether the GTE does that as I didn't get a chance tor unit much on the motorway in the short test drive I had.
May also be interesting to see what software differences there are over time in how things balance.
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The Passat GTE I tried had the info display so you could watch where power was coming from and was it recharging. Hence knowing it recharged on the motorway. A bit distracting. With the info display you can also see it switch from electric motors, ICE, etc. and you'd never know the difference between electric mode and ICE with the change over seamless.
You can display the same on the infotainment screen but that is less line of site.
Still think a Prius hybrid vs GTE used as a hybrid (no charging) will be more fuel efficient because of (a) less battery to lug around and (b) CVT gearbox... and they've been doing for donkey's years too I suppose.
Would I want a Pious? No.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 7 Dec 17 at 18:48
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>> Would I want a Pious? No.
I didn't expect to like it as a car and was pleasantly surprised wouldn't choose it over a VW GTE either Golf or Passat, though if it was a private purchase ....
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>> Driving on the motorway at a steady
>> speed it will operate almost totally as an ICE and will charge the battery a
>> bit too. Lift off and it will switch off the engine totally but put it
>> on cruise and it will keep the petrol engine running.
>>
That’s not my experience in the A3. At a steady speed on a motorway with no incline it will switch between ICE and EV (if your going less that 82mph) if the energy required is low. It’ll do that whether or not you use cruise control. I don’t think the ICE charges the battery though on a motorway as far as I can tell, it just uses recovered energy to charge. The engine will cut out if it’s powers not needed, rather than charge the battery.
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>> Is that motorway running pure ICE use or is that hybrid use where it will
>> reclaim a small amount of battery coasting / braking. how often do you find the
>> battery comes in to assist on motorway hills for example.
>> Do you ever use the ICE engine to charge the battery and if so have
>> you worked out if/when that is worth it?
>> Do you ever use GTE mode for a bit of fun?
>>
Even if it’s not charged it still works as a normal hybrid, recovering energy under braking (regenerative brakes) and when coasting down hills...if the car starts gaining speed while coasting you can see the energy gauge move into ‘charging’ as it uses the regenerative braking to slow it back down, even when cruise is not on. On top of that, under light load, the car appears to use the electric motor to maintain speed on the motorway when it can, sometimes for quite long periods. It’ll ‘gain’ a few miles of charge quite quickly by itself even on short journeys by recovering energy.
Combine the coasting with no ICE, braking and time running on the electric motor it’s quite normal to see that on long journeys (400 miles or more) 30% to 40% of the journey is ‘emissions free’. Now clearly 120 miles is far more than the range of the battery, and although coasting and slowing down will also form a part of that distance, it must be the case that the energy recovery and subsequent electric motor usage must be pretty high.
Using the ICE to charge the battery is pointless..in fact the option was removed on the facelift A3. Not sure about the Golf. You lose 30 miles of petrol range to gain 10 or 15 of battery!
The A3 doesn’t have GTE mode, buts assuming that’s the mode that uses ICE and EV at the same time that just works like kick-down in an auto in the A3 (which is an auto and kicks down anyway). The energy gauge moves into ‘boost’ when used. It’s used when it’s needed really, as with the power in any car. If fast acceleration is called for it just happens. It does accelerate pretty quickly... ;)
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The Passat GTE certainly was charging batteries according to the energy flow graphics. Maybe it's less than 79mph before it stops using electric only mode at motorway speeds? I usually drive at an indicated 79mph and thought it was 80mph for the electric mode to be unavailable.
Going down hills you can learn to make use of the B breaking mode for the DSG but that slows you down pretty quickly.
I agree about using the ICE to charge the battery is stupid (using more petrol) but the Passat GTE was doing this. Hence doing over 200 miles with a full battery at the start, using some electric only mode in roadworks and stop start and local traffic... and having a full battery at the destination.
On my Superb with DSG it works differently to the Audi A3 with the same engine/gearbox in so much if you have drive in ECO mode it will coast when you lift off the accelerator but default to normal drive when you restart the car. Not figured out if this is because ECO mode isn't really saving power.
I was surprised the GTE did not run in 2 cylinder mode when the A3 and Superb will.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 7 Dec 17 at 23:09
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>> >> I expect about the same, maybe slightly better overall, as a diesel and way
>> better than a pure petrol
>>
>> You will be disappointed. You'll only get high mpg if you plug it in regularly.
>>
I will probably only be plugging in at home at the weekend as there is not much charging availability when I am away during the week, however I expect a significant effect on the overall number from the weekend use since I average about 50-100 miles at the weekend and the consumption of the diesel on that is pretty poor as there is a lot of town driving, cold engine use etc in the weekend number.
I know that in a normal weekend with a commute between Warwick and Marlow at either end I got high 30s from a petrol Golf so I will beat that.
In any event, I steadfastly refuse to be a fuel economy geek, I will get what I get and if I like the car I will not give a **** what mileage I get
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My Outlander PHEV has averaged about 60mpg over the almost 3 years I have had it. It has done 47k miles in total so about 16k per year. Not too shabby for a big car. My wife uses it to commute to work daily about 30 miles round trip so most of that is on electricity. Weekends it is used extensively but is always plugged in when it is at home.
Very happy with it so have a new one delivered in 2 weeks to replace it. Company car so makes sense re tax. Not so sure if a private buy. I have noticed the battery performance tailing off recently so only showing 20 miles or so when fully charged. Going back so not too fussed but would be having a discussion with the dealer before warranty runs out if it were a private buy.
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"...recently so only showing 20 miles or so when fully charged."
That' ll be the cold. Mine has shrunk from about 42 to 28 on a full charge. Can be improved (marginally) by pre-conditioning on mine for 10 mins before unplugging (which apparently brings the battery up top temperature and probably other stuff)
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60mpg does not sound that good when you say over half the miles were on electric only. But it's a big car. Your saving is BIK as a company car.
But if it's your car and your wife drives it in the week.... couldn't you get rid of a car?
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>> But if it's your car and your wife drives it in the week.... couldn't you
>> get rid of a car?
>>
Presumably they want to go different places at times so they both need a car or both want a car.
I have this discussion regularly with my neighbour who accuses us of having "surplus" cars as my wife, my daughter and I all have our own cars.
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>> I have this discussion regularly with my neighbour who accuses us of having "surplus" cars
>> as my wife, my daughter and I all have our own cars.
>>
You only have one car per resident, ask him how many pairs of shoes, TVs, computers, etc.and other items he has multiples of. Or does he think he owns the road and parking rights?
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 7 Dec 17 at 08:24
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>> Or does he think he owns the road and parking rights?
>>
In short, yes, a proper PITA
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One point to consider around charge times is that domestic mains sockets can supply 16A in most Continental European countries instead of the UK's 13A. A 23% difference in current is going to be very noticeable in terms of charge time.
I can't imagine VW would omit this factor from their calculations and subsequent claims, but you never know. ;-)
Last edited by: DP on Fri 8 Dec 17 at 13:17
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If you use what is effectively a plug you put in a standard socket, then assuming it's anything like the others I know about amongst other cars, it won't draw more than 10 amps anyway.
You need a wall mounted proper charger for more. They range from 16 amp (old now and probably unusual) to 30 amp (most common) with the odd 32 amp. Unless you have three phase to your house and buy a super duper charger of course.
But I don't know about the VW. Maybe it only supports a crappy three pin plug affair.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Fri 8 Dec 17 at 13:25
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Maybe on e of the others can correct me but I believe you only get the 3 pin plug based cable with the car, it does support other connections but the cable is extra.
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The A3, and therefore I assume the Golf, support 16A charging. It comes with a power pack that you can plug into a 13A socket, which as pointed out above will only draw a maximum of 10A. It also comes with a type 2 (whatever that means) lead for connecting to a 16A or 32A charger, but will only draw 16A. It also comes with a series of adapters to allow connection to various other sockets, including those blue mennekes (sp?) industrial power connectors. We’ve had a 32A charging point fitted at home, at its what’s called a tethered one which means the lead and connector are attached to the charging point, so the cable in the car is never used and lives under the boot floor!
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The Passat GTE (and so I assume Golf GTE too) come with two charging cables. So just like Peter's A3.
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Volkswagen - Golf GTE - Hard Cheese
