I just might be edging towards persuading Dee to consider changing our car!
I've had a WBAC online quote of £1245 (before inspection and inevitable chipping away of that figure). Anywhere around a trade price of a grand is a result as far as I can see.
I fancy a change and I'm getting a bit watered off as, despite my sealing the usual places, the boot gets very wet.
A proper cure of water ingress can be very costly, so I'm wondering if it's better to P/X the Jazz CVT while the apparent price is reasonable.
Because of the lack of feeling in my trotters it's necessary to have an auto to avoid proceeding, particularly from a start,in a series of hops and stutters. It's not a basic ability to co-ordinate clutch and throttle, but a lack of feedback, once second nature, which is the problem. An auto overcomes this perfectly. In our dotage, we do like the ease of driving an auto offers!
The need for an auto, combined with a low budget of around £4500 to £5000 makes choice very limited, particularly as we both find a need to make it easy to enter and exit a car.
Be that as it may, the Jazz has CVT which I do like, but there are so many so-called autos which are not truly automatic and may, or may not, require constant driver input.
A box which operates as a true smooth auto for 90% of the time would be OK, as both of us are very experienced drivers.
What sort of auto boxes should we consider, or rule out, given that horrendous unreliability and cost would be a catastrophe?
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Many will say avoid DSG when they mean dual clutch transmission. DSG is a marketing term VW group use for VW, SEAT and SKODA cars and Audi's with exactly the same transmission would call it S-Tronic.
Audi used CVT is some cars and called it Multitronic. In an Audi a torque converter should be marketed as Steptronic.
I'm not sure I'd be brave enough to run a DCT at the age you'll be looking at. And most will probably be in VW group cars.
Ford and others have had automated manuals - Ford will call that PowerShift I think.
If I was you... I'd get another Honda Jazz CVT that's not leaking. You like it, get on with the CVT and access is okay. Just get one that doesn't leak in the boot :-)
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I've owned automatics since the late 1970's, including Jaag's and V8 Rovers, never had any problem with any of them, except the Riley Kestrel I bought for the ole woman :)
All TC's of course. Back in the day when I worked on cars, I drove an 'awful' lot of Daf's and Volvo 340's which put me orf CVT's to this day. Course, I know things have moved on since those damn things.
My present car is an 8-year-old CR-V EX 2.0 auto which is a delight to drive, as was my previous Forester 2.0 auto. Before that I had the Mitsu Lancer auto and before that a 2.0 Almera auto.
When I was looking to replace the scooby doo, I considered soooo many cars, including many from VAG which includes Seat of course, but I decided not to try my luck with the DSG gearbox (better safe than sorry ££££) unless buying new.
Before I bought the CR-V i roadtested a diseasel auto V40, which is basically a Focus with the powershift (dual clutch semi auto) gearbox which drove like a TC box TBH.
I'd be interested in what someone like carmalade says about DSG problems ... and the cost of fixing 'em.
Let us know what car catches your eye Dodger, and we'll weigh the critter up from there.
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Dad has a Nissan Note automatic.
He really likes it as it also has a slightly higher seating position. Also had lots of toys.
Prices not too bad either.
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We had a Note 1.6 Auto...No, I'm not Bobby's dad. Loved it, pulled like a train and easy access. Also had a back seat that rolled forward to give a bigger boot when just two up. No probs apart from the damn boot lock and a complete battery fail in the drive at home. Only traded it in 'cos it was 10 yrs old. Came out with a three yr old Micra 1200 CVT, which SWM likes a lot.
I'll stick with me 2 litre, TC RAV4, thanks.
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>> Older but in your budget - low mileage
>> www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201801152783445?atmobcid=soc3
>>
>>
Ta, but that is a manual.
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Thanks, but it's too many £££. I'm not sure what the colour is either. If it's lilac, that is just vile when seen in the metal!
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>> There you go Rog, thank me later
>> www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201801162798529?atmobcid=soc3
>>
>>
If that's your postcode, are you my brother?
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>> >> There you go Rog, thank me later
>> >> www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201801162798529?atmobcid=soc3
>> >>
>> >>
>> If that's your postcode, are you my brother?
>>
It is and you are not!
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I'm not anyone's brother, but that St Albans postcode is my brother's postcode.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 8 Mar 18 at 01:44
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If the link had been posted only up until the question mark, no one would have had to worry about a post code.
i.e. www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201801162798529
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 8 Mar 18 at 01:45
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>> If the link had been posted only up until the question mark, no one would
>> have had to worry about a post code.
>>
>> i.e. www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201801162798529
>>
And where would be the fun in that?
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>> I'm not anyone's brother, but that St Albans postcode is my brother's postcode.
Eh?
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>> >> I'm not anyone's brother, but that St Albans postcode is my brother's postcode.
>>
>> Eh?
>>
What St Albans postcode? S80 1LH (the one I used) was the postcode of the college I used to go to and hence used as an example.
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The first Jazz advert showed a St Albans postcode which is the same as my brother's postcode. I have never used that postcode in any searches.
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>> The first Jazz advert showed a St Albans postcode which is the same as my
>> brother's postcode. I have never used that postcode in any searches.
>>
I am a simple soul, explain this to me please?
"I'm not anyone's brother, but that St Albans postcode is my brother's postcode."
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>> I am a simple soul, explain this to me please?
>>
>> "I'm not anyone's brother, but that St Albans postcode is my brother's postcode."
My daughter has a brother, but she isn't anyone's brother. Does that help?
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>> My daughter has a brother, but she isn't anyone's brother. Does that help?
Not trying to get them across a river in a row boat with a fox, chicken and corn are you?
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>>
>> >> I am a simple soul, explain this to me please?
>> >>
>> >> "I'm not anyone's brother, but that St Albans postcode is my brother's postcode."
>>
>> My daughter has a brother, but she isn't anyone's brother. Does that help?
>>
That's the one!
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>> It's not
>> a basic ability to co-ordinate clutch and throttle, but a lack of feedback, once second
>> nature, which is the problem.
>>
Thinking about this notion of feedback, I can't really associate it with my feet as you suggest.
I picture feedback, as in detecting the moment of clutch bite and feeding in the right amount of throttle, as coming from a combination of engine note and minute changes in fore and aft inclination, eg the bonnet line lifting a fraction as seen against the road. Also, like hearing generally, a certain amountof perception of engine load comes through one's body.
I realise also I'm vaguely aware of the tachometer needle out of the corner of my eye, and sense a drop impending a potential stall.
But perhaps people vary as to which sense they use. For example, I find no difficulty in driving in heavy gumboots, but my wife has to change into ordinary shoes. My mother took it a stage further and could only drive in thin slippers.
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Do Mazda or Suzuki offer anything to fit the bill? They use pretty reliable TC auto gearboxes don't they?
Is the Mitsubishi ASX too big, or out of budget?
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>>Do Mazda or Suzuki offer anything to fit the bill?
Had a Suzuki Swift as a loan car for the day when I put my CR-V in for a service - nice little car and I could live wivvit.
Cheapest one on AT is six and 'alf big ones:
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201802143704290?
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If the boot of your jazz is getting wet here is the most likely cause. Some sealant will be cheaper than a new car.
www.beardmorebros.co.uk/website%20pages/jazz_leak.html
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Yes, i'm aware of these water ingress points and have put some sealant around them. The roof joint appears to be sound, but I have sealed the last few inches of it. If the problem lies further up towards the front of the cat it will mean taking out the rubber joint strip and I'm not fully confident that it will go back, bearing in mind that hardening over the years is likely and there may be possible damage in removing it.
The price of new rubber joints is high!
Additionally, which I did not mention originally, both rear passenger foot-wells are somewhat damp (not caused by carrying passengers, as we haven't, recently) The most common cause of that is, generally a breakdown of the plastic waterproof sheets in the doors. I do not think there has been an overflow of water from the spare wheel well, as I keep a pretty close eye on the wet boot water level.
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Thanks for all your replies so far.
What I'm really after is a decent explanation of what the various not-fully-auto autos offer and any snags there may be in real life driving situations.
For instance the Jazz came, for a couple of years with the iShift, an automated manual which was heartily disliked to the extent that Honda went back to the CVT pretty quickly. There is a long blog on-line giving a blow by blow account of learning to live with an iShift , nicknamed "Shifty" and I really could not be bothered to make such constant adjustments myself. (I bet it would drive my wife mad!)
I know how CVT and torque converter boxes work in practice and both are OK for me.
What I hoped for, in posing the question, was a guide to the various trade names described as automatic, with opinions as to which, while being semi-automatic, or automated manual, require minimal driver input to proceed safely and smoothly.
I'm not so much in need of specific car recommendations as information on the various boxes fitted by manufacturers.
Most road tests of cars are on the manual versions and it is not easy to find decent in depth reviews of the automatic option.
Last edited by: Roger. on Tue 6 Mar 18 at 14:25
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Unfortunately it's common for salesmen not to know what sort of auto a car has (but rarer for them to admit it, so they make something up).
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>> Unfortunately it's common for salesmen not to know what sort of auto a car has
>> (but rarer for them to admit it, so they make something up).
Annoying though that is, it's a sad reflection that for most customers not even basic technical knowledge or awareness is seen as a requirement in the person one is buying from.
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>> As do: www.mazda.com/en/innovation/technology/skyactiv/skyactiv-drive/
Mazda use a torque converter in the Mazda6 for example. Don't know about say a Mazda2.
I think it has some extra 'tricks' over a normal TC but it's still a TC.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 6 Mar 18 at 17:35
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>> I think it has some extra 'tricks' over a normal TC but it's still a
>> TC.
>>
Described here:
www.greencarcongress.com/2011/08/mazda-20110808-1.html
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I avoided the word lockup although I knew that was part of what they claimed - I was considering a Mazda6 again this time around and now wanted/preferred autos. But I suspect others TC's do similar - ZF? Could be wrong but it doesn't sound that clever - more common sense.
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Wow prices have risen on these bad boys over the past 12 months.
Most reliable automatic there is.....
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201712222221867
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201712212198261 (same as mine)
Tee hee hee
Last edited by: Lygonos on Tue 6 Mar 18 at 20:34
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Hmm - tempting.
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201802213955102
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 7 Mar 18 at 19:41
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Renault Scenic? yeah, perfect for you, go for it.
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>> Renault Scenic? yeah, perfect for you, go for it.
>>
...I hope you weren't alluding to the description "**timewarp example**"
;-)
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>> >> Renault Scenic? yeah, perfect for you, go for it.
>> >>
>>
>> ...I hope you weren't alluding to the description "**timewarp example**"
Nah I confess, it was so I could luxuriate in the irony of a rabid brexiter being shafted and bankrupted by something french after we leave.
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>> Nah I confess, it was so I could luxuriate in the irony of a rabid
>> brexiter being shafted and bankrupted by something french after we leave.
>>
I'm sure he feels that's already happened, and without the bonus of a Renault.....
;-)
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It would have been the candles on the cake.
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Service history??
Excellent condition for a 10 year old car, electrics and cambelt/tensioner can give grief:
"Essential to replace tensioner, all pulleys and waterpump at the same time as the timing belt (at 4 years or 36k miles, whichever comes up first) as water pump failure will throw off the timing belt"
www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/renault/scenic-2003/?section=good
Ignore that snidy Shi'ite who posted earlier.
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A ten year old Renault with a digital dash and auto box... hmmm. Gearbox faulting with a "Check gearbox" error on dash very common.
Last MOT is an advisory on front and rear discs.... so they'll be up for changing soon. Quite likely with such a low mileage vehicle which has spent most of its life standing.
Never ever pay over the top for a low mileage example. That is about £1500 over where it should be at average miles.... and I'd prefer one at average miles with a decent service record and perhaps up to date on the timing belt job etc.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Wed 7 Mar 18 at 21:55
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I'm sure there are at least some good Renaults. Depends how lucky you're feeling I suppose... ;-)
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>> Never ever pay over the top for a low mileage example. That is about £1500
>> over where it should be at average miles.... and I'd prefer one at average miles
>> with a decent service record and perhaps up to date on the timing belt job
>> etc.
I'd go further. Bag a bargain by looking for cars that have racked up miles but done so reasonably quickly. Our BX estate bought in 1993 having done 50k in 2years and current Roomster, 70k in three years. Both were £1k cheaper than low mileage examples and neither required anything beyond normal maintenance and replacement of wearing parts like tyres and brakes.
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A guy I know, well, knew anyway, has a large fleet of mini cabs, over 40 cars on the road at one time. At any rate, when I was chatting to him about his attitude to miles he surprised me a bit when he told me that he generally buys cars that are reasonably young, but with over 100,000 miles on them provided they have a good service history. Usually ex company stuff. His theory being that he doesn't have to pay much for what are in fact still very good and viable cars.
He also told me that he routinely runs the mainstream brands up to 400,000 before they become uneconomical to repair, and that even more miles ( quite a lot more ) can be got out of the BMWs and Mercs due to RWD drivetrains apparently lasting longer. He won't touch DSGs due to too many bad experiences by the way...
But, with the usage and budget you indicate, I'd have to default to the standard advice of Japanese petrol I think.
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>> A guy I know, well, knew anyway, has a large fleet of mini cabs,
He is lucky in that he wants large family or prestige wagons, and that is normally the company car pool. Normally they are run in with vigor, rack up a lot of undemanding motorway miles quickly, and get serviced as per the supplier spec.
Its a good pool to fish from.
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>> Its a good pool to fish from.
>>
I wonder for how long that will be true
Our car list for a fleet of several thousand vehicles has a limit of 120g of CO2 emissions
no large patrols and a limited range of large diesels, possible going to be a more common approach over the coming years
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>> no large patrols
Not even Passat 1.4TSIs or a Superb 1.4TSI?
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>> serviced as per suppliers spec
Not sure there's any guarantee these days that a company car has been serviced by the correct dealer for the make of car, or in accordance with the manufacturers schedule.
Previous company car (2014 Qashqai) had the first service at Nissan. Hitachi Capital insisted that the second service could be carried out at the local 'Bosch Service Centre'. Looks like they used a Nissan oil filter, bit no telling whether the oil was the correct spec for a DPF equipped diesel.
New employer now with Lex as the vehicle provider. Current Golf goes to local VW dealer for all servicing, but we have to suffer Kwik Fit for tyres. Four new ones recently and when I got home and had a look at them, the two on the drivers side had been fitted with the rotational arrows rotating the wrong way. Complete muppets!
Worse still, my brothers company Megane was sent to Kwik Fit for its first service! Don't know who the lease company is there.
Caveat emptor, but I'd want to carefully check the 'FSH' for any company / ex fleet car I was considering!
Last edited by: Mr Moo on Wed 7 Mar 18 at 23:42
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>> A ten year old Renault with a digital dash and auto box... hmmm. Gearbox faulting
>> with a "Check gearbox" error on dash very common.
My advice would be simple regarding an out of warranty Scenic. Run away. Quickly.
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best get a japanese, proper automatic box .
better chain driven engine.
1.6 note would suit
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Yes, a Note is a decent option and I've been thinking of that, too.
The only drawback I can see, without actually inspecting one, is that it might be a touch smaller thn the Jazz, when ideally I'd like something a touch bigger. (Grand-children's luggage on end of term/half term runs to LBA ,or the ferry at Xmas, has to be seen!)
After posting the Scenic ad. I did some internet research, which confirms the likely problems.
Probably best left alone.
We certainly paid OTT for the Jazz when we bought it nearly 4 years ago, with a mileage of less than 24k. It was a good decision, though.
Dee has bent my ear and for the immediate future two replacement windows has taken precedence - no they aren't in the same price bracket, but still have reduced my comfort level by six hundred quid.
My thanks go to all of you who have posted genuine and well-intentioned advice.
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Plenty of space in this ;-)
www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201801303230358
Find a couple of grand more and you might get a Nissan Pulsar though?? Bigger than a Note.
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was thinking the previous model note is a bit bigger . i just bought one £4820 61 plate 10,500 miler . happy days . hope to have it for a long time
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Our Note was the previous model of course. I don't know about the new one but another good bit of the early one is that the boot floor comes out giving an extra six inches of depth or so. We were looking for a new model but bought the Micra as none of the new ones had come off Motability at the time. Carrying capacity wasn't important as we have the longer Rav which would probably carry the Micra with the back seats out .
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I like the look of of thr Hyundai iX20 automatic. The right size, easy access, a proper auto, as far as I can see from advertiser's photos: it's on the list when (a) It reaches a price which I can afford and (b)Dee can be persuaded.
If ever!
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>>I like the look of of the Hyundai iX20
Which is basically a: www.honestjohn.co.uk/carbycar/kia/venga-2010/
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According to HJ, during 2015 the automatic versions of the Hyundai iX20 and Kia Venga began to be be fitted with DCT rather than TC auto boxes.
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Auto advice, please.. - rtj70
