A parallel to the M1 accident.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5539259/Motorist-ran-fuel-M25-cousin-killed-car-hit-jailed-three-years.html
In this case car came to halt on a 'managed motorway' section of M25's NE quadrant. Driver was aware fuel was low but pressed on past services and exits where she could have bought petrol. Thought she'd be OK as breakdown service would come to her aid.
Shortly after stopping car was hit from behind by an artic. Rear seat passenger died of her injuries.
Car driver cleared of dangerous driving but convicted of an other offence, presumably death by careless, and given three years jail. Truck driver convicted of same offence and got suspended sentence.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 24 Mar 18 at 12:05
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The concern this highlights of course is the safety of any of us who have an enforced stop on a motorway (or other fast dual carriageway) without a hard shoulder.
We can all take care not to smoke cannabis and keep the tank full, but we can't help it if the car breaks down or has a puncture.
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>> In this case car came to halt on a 'managed motorway' section of M25's NE
>> quadrant. Driver was aware fuel was low but pressed on past services and exits where
>> she could have bought petrol. Thought she'd be OK as breakdown service would come to
>> her aid.
>>
>> Shortly after stopping car was hit from behind by an artic. Rear seat passenger died
>> of her injuries.
I really cannot begin to understand the logic or common sense of someone who would carry on driving, knowing they were low on fuel.
'Breakdown services would come to her aid'. Good God! What about the faff and inconvenience of that!
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>>I really cannot begin to understand the logic or common sense of someone who would carry on driving, knowing they were low on fuel.
I don;t know this particular case, but skint perhaps?
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>> I don;t know this particular case, but skint perhaps?
I'd considered that.
Never run out of fuel but had problem with Xantia's in tank lift pump while running near empty. Breakdown man suggested low fuel as problem, gave me a lecture on steel tanks gunk etc (Xant's tank was plastic) and offered 5litres but only with cash/card payment upfront.
Adding fuel made no difference but it ran enthusiastically on a dose of Bradex easy start!!
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I've driven on fumes a few times with my heart in my mouth, but never on a motorway and I would never take that chance.
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>> I don;t know this particular case, but skint perhaps?
On a motorway driving skint is worse, your only petrol alternatives are expensive, your breakdown costs are huge, and on a smart motorway* your breakdown zone is deadly. You do have to be a dick to fume it on a motorway.
*smart motorway? the ruddy things are ridiculously dangerous, really not sure how we ended up with this half ass cludge
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My daughter has this habit of driving with low fuel.
I keep telling her off about this, tank half full I top up.
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Driving up the M3 this morning on a 'Smart' stretch, I was reminded how dangerous these roads are.
A chap on the other carriageway had broken down. There was no hard shoulder, but fortunately there was a grass verge that he could use to pull off the road. Our carriageway had an Armco barrier preventing you from doing so.
'Smart' motorways are so dangerous that I refuse to use lane 1.
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Driving up back to home this afternoon from down south - two examples of dangers that should not be there:
1. Motorhome stopped on the A449 (or could have been later on the A49) but on the road after a bend. No hard shoulder but everyone ahead was braking and then you spot the danger. If that caused an accident - who was to blame?
2. On the M6 in the variable speed section after joining from the M5.... idiot in a white Qashqai on my bumper in the 60mph controlled limit. Right behind.... and then ahead because of an accident it dropped to 40mph.... he would not let me reduce speed to 40mph and I was lucky to drop below 50mph! Had I carried on braking he'd have hit me or had to do an emergency manoeuvre because he was that close.
Later there was just congestion so as usual I drop to lane 2 and lane 3 was slow ahead and yet car after car accelerated up to the slower cars ahead.
Forget smart motorways.... get smart cameras and get the dumb risky drivers off the road.
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>> 2. On the M6 in the variable speed section after joining from the M5.... idiot
>> in a white Qashqai on my bumper in the 60mph controlled limit. Right behind.... and
>> then ahead because of an accident it dropped to 40mph.... he would not let me
>> reduce speed to 40mph and I was lucky to drop below 50mph! Had I carried
>> on braking he'd have hit me or had to do an emergency manoeuvre because he
>> was that close.
I genuinely don't get the bolded bit. If you're in front you're in control. I appreciate braking sharply might (just) allow him to tail end you. Surely though you can brake gently or just ease off accelerator, using gears if necessary, until your speed decays to lowered limit - or below if you'd prefer him in front.
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I did brake gently.... But he was not braking as much! He did not want me to slow down.
Don't patronise me please. I know how to drive. The driver behind had not seen the signs change to 40mph ahead or at least he ignored them.
Had I continued braking he was about to go into the back of me.
What had happened I think we were between two speed gantries. The last said 60mph and now they all change to 40mph.... he was on my bumper and driving far to close.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Sun 25 Mar 18 at 22:29
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>> Don't patronise me please. I know how to drive. The driver behind had not seen
>> the signs change to 40mph ahead or at least he ignored them.
If it came over as patronising I apologise. Afraid I still don't get how gentle deceleration is likely to result in being tail ended by somebody who is already too close - except driving on snow/ice.
Different perhaps if there's a high closure rate and he's not paying attention.
In 40 years of motoring I've never been in a scenario where I wasn't able to control the speed of somebody following too close. Sure I get flashed and hooted at but nothing worse.
Off down the M1 today - maybe there's a first time for everyone?
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Hmm I'd be surprised if the car would have actually collided into the back of you. Got close sure, but purples caused an accident?
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>> >> Afraid I still don't get how gentle
>> deceleration is likely to result in being tail ended
>>
There are some people on the roads who would actually deliberately drive into another car.
Some drivers only pretend that they would, in order to intimidate, but there are some - reckless, insane, on drugs, in a stolen car - who do not care. There is no way of knowing whether the one behind you is one of these.
So do you a) take the risk and slow gently, or b) take the arguably lesser risk of being booked for speeding?
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>> I did brake gently.... But he was not braking as much! He did not want
>> me to slow down.
>>
>> Don't patronise me please. I know how to drive.
I can assure you if you try that defence in court on a speeding charge the bench will most definitely patronise you and question your driving ability.
Of course you could have slowed him down.
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>>
>> Of course you could have slowed him down.
>>
I don't think you can have read or taken in my post.
There ARE lunatics who will actually ram a car whose driver annoys them. I've seen a car barge into another whose driver wouldn't let him in out of a sideroad, then scrape along the nearside wing grinning and drive off.
Rare, but how do you know the one behind you chancing it six inches away isn't such a maniac? Defensive driving might not be a defence against a speeding charge, but it might concievably be safer sometimes?
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>>
>> >>
>> >> Of course you could have slowed him down.
>> >>
>>
>> I don't think you can have read or taken in my post.
I did read your post, and dismissed its validity. I do 20,000 miles a year and never been targeted by a ramming lunatic. Had plenty of tailgaters and always managed to keep them in check. The magistrates bench won't accept the "fear of lunatic tailgaters" argument when you are summoned for speeding.
On a practical note, someone tailgating very close won't be "ramming" me, there simply isn't the distance or speed differential to do so. (unless I slammed on my anchors to brake test him and thats not "slowing someone down"
So I stand by my original statement
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 26 Mar 18 at 12:11
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>> Had plenty of tailgaters and always managed to keep them in check.
The gantry sign changed to 40mph after we had passed the previous one which was saying 60mph so whilst I got him to slow down a bit there was not much time before we were passing the 40mph one. Had there been more time/distance then yes I could have braked for longer and he'd have dropped back.
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If someone's so close behind my lorry that I can't see them, and I'm required to slow down, then slow down I will. Never been rear-ended yet.
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Something I hadn't seen my car warn me of before this weekend was in the info display it told me I was to close to the car in front. Both times it was in the slow traffic in the roadworks.
Anyone know if it is based on distance to the car in front and speed or distance alone?
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>> Anyone know if it is based on distance to the car in front and speed
>> or distance alone?
Mine certainly has a mode that uses "approach speed" i.e. the gap is closing too fast.
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>> Driver was aware fuel was low but pressed on past services and exits where she could have bought petrol.
If driver had survived but passenger died I should hope that driver would also have been prosecuted for causing death by dangerous driving.
I begin to get a bit twitchy when my tank falls much below a third; don't get how people don't. It's so dangerous to run out.
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> I begin to get a bit twitchy when my tank falls much below a third;
>> don't get how people don't. It's so dangerous to run out.
>>
For those low mileage drivers, a third of a tank might be a couple of weeks use. A third of a tank is plenty to many.
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>> If driver had survived but passenger died I should hope that driver would also have
>> been prosecuted for causing death by dangerous driving.
Charged but acquitted of death by dangerous. Article is not clear but suspect she was sentenced for death by careless.
>> I begin to get a bit twitchy when my tank falls much below a third;
>> don't get how people don't. It's so dangerous to run out.
Me too. Used to play fuel light bingo locally and occasionally as far as Fosse Park (3p/litre cheaper than Northampton) in the Berlingo. Light never came on until north of J20 and there's still a gallon+ left then.
Never tried it in the Skoda.
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If the red light comes on on the PPoS it's got more than 50km left in it. So why stress? It's not like ther's isn't a petrol station every 1/2mile.
Outside the towns and cities is a different matter of course. Bu I cannot imagine getting worried with 1/3 tank left. To you worry at 1/2 tank because it's almost 1/3?
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If I know the area well, I'll play yellow light bingo on the gauge, did it yesterday on the M3 with a max range of 19 miles showing.
If I don't know the area, I get twitchy when the light comes on and will top it up at the first opportunity, even tho its got a 50 mile range.
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She who must etc., tops up at 3/4 of a tank or more. Always full. A bit ott, but what the hell.. I dare not argue!
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Around here, it's almost obligatory to have a tailgater, usually a black Audi. They just can't wait ! Last week in Bramhall, a refreshing change, a black Nissan Navarra. Two miles up me chuff at the legal limit on a two lane residential road, 30mph.
We got to a short straight stretch. I wasn't looking in my mirror at that point when I was aware of the beast storming past me at quite a high rate. I could see the traffic lights at Davenport Station were on green 400 yds ahead and i begged them to change, which they did. he had to stop as there were half a dozen cars in front. I was turning left, the dedicated lane was empty and I sailed past him giving him an ostentatious round of applause as I undertook him. I hope he saw it, but if he wasn't looking, it gave me a warm glow anyway !
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>> She who must etc., tops up at 3/4 of a tank or more. Always full.
>>
It stops the tank rusting, allegedly, but means you use more fuel from carrying the permanent exra weight.
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>> It stops the tank rusting, allegedly, but means you use more fuel from carrying the
>> permanent exra weight.
I was told that when breakdown man came out to my immobile Xantia. Pointed out to me it was low on fuel, insisted on putting in five litres and giving me a lesson on fuel tank corrosion. We were running it low 'cos we were off on hols in other car and there was no point in it sitting on drive with £60 worth sitting in it.
Every car I've owned since the BX in 1999 has had a plastic tank.
No go was due to failed lift pump.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Fri 30 Mar 18 at 07:54
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>> me a lesson on fuel tank corrosion.
>> Every car I've owned since the BX in 1999 has had a plastic tank.
>>
>> No go was due to failed lift pump.
Corroded probably
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>> >> She who must etc., tops up at 3/4 of a tank or more. Always
>> full.
>> >>
>>
>> It stops the tank rusting, allegedly, but means you use more fuel from carrying the
>> permanent exra weight.
>>
That’s a bit cheeky Clifford, you don’t even know her 0:-)
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>> She who must etc., tops up at 3/4 of a tank or more. Always full.
>> A bit ott, but what the hell.. I dare not argue!
>>
This will give problems with some diesels - some Citroens IIRC that inject an anti pollution mix every time the fuel cap is operated. I thought that some versions fed a fixed amount - but this link would appear to contradict my thoughts. c4owners.org/plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?210564
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Another Motorway Death by Careless Driving - Manatee
