www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40726868
www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/04/12/average-age-car-uk-roads-highest-level-since-turn-millennium/
UK cars and vans in 2017 had an average age of 8.1 years
The data also showed that approximately 17 per cent of cars were more than 13 years old
www.gov.uk/government/publications/number-of-cars-in-the-uk-over-20-years-of-age
Is this switch to electric cars possible ??
Are we going to see vast numbers of charge points everywhere to permit flat dwellers etc to easily recharge their cars ?
I was surprised when a flat dweller I know has just bought her first ever car a new Zoe.
She cannot charge it at home so has to seek out a public access charge point ( there are a few nearby) or go to a local non 24 hour supermarket. All very well but notionally a large waste of time but all points are within a 10 min walk so that reduces it to a 20 min waste of time each "home" charge plus search time.
The future ( for some?)
The guy my son bought his latest car from lived in a very expensive terrace house with a cable from his house via a nearby tree and the dangled to his car that he had managed to nab a street parking spot by the tree.
Deep trenches ( elf n safety?) to be dug all across gardens and pavements.
Will you be able to rent out your private charge points ?
Will there be growth in meter bypassing ?
I assume the parliamentary committee has the answers so we can all stop worrying.
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Expect electricity costs to go up because of demand and taxation to cover the loss of fuel duty and VAT.
The range of these things just isn't good enough at the moment. I would like an electric car but need to be able to do a round trip of 300 (2 x 150) miles a day and occasionally 1 x 250 or 1 x 550 and I can do that by filling up at home and filling up again when I arrive at my destination. I don't want to faff around with several 2 hour plus stops and worry about charging times and availability.
Also, I have noticed that some electric cars give one quick recharge but not another, is it because the battery pack gets too hot? Time for them to cool would be another delay.
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They aren't talking about tomorrow, they are talking about 2032. How long do most people keep their cars these days?
I'd bet quite a lot of my hard-earned that in the next 14 years the technology may move on a little, to enable longer journeys and easier charging.
Whether the petrol head mindset does is more questionable.
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I think Henry you may be trying to apply today's technology to tomorrow's problem.
I have little doubt that by 2032, the technology will have moved on in leaps and bounds. I have more than once suggested that in the future 'your' electric car will, during the night, drive itself round the corner to a charging point, connect itself (wirelessly?), get charged and drive itself back round the corner to your extremely high-rise flat where we all have to live.
It's 2032! We ain't gonna be here!
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"... your extremely high-rise flat... "
It's struck me as I've travelled round European cities just how many more people live in flats/apartments than houses than do here. I guess it's for no other reason other than that's what suburban housing is in most countries. I have a mate in Munich who was reasonably senior with Siemens and he and his family are in a nice apartment in a moderately large block.
It is a more efficient use of space I suppose, and maybe something future generations will learn to live with.
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And makes a lot mor sense when you are older. No stairs, no garden to worry about, someone else to clean the windows etc. And normally closer to facilities and public transport therefore no need for a car.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Sat 20 Oct 18 at 09:10
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No stairs, i suppose most have lifts?
Not sure many retire to a block of flats?
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Maybe not high rise flats, but there are plenty of retirement homes which are small apartment blocks over two or three floors.
My mate's place in Munich doesn't have lifts. The block is on about 4 levels I think, plus he has a store room/workshop type place in the basement, also his car space is underground. I guess if the stairs ever became unmanageable he would move. Not sure how the costs compare but he's entirely happy in his apartment at the moment. Maintenance is less work, for sure!
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Maybe there are more apartments or flats abroad than here which is odd in a way, since the UK is more densely populated than nearly all European countries. One of those things i suppose.
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Also my perception could be wrong :-) There are obviously quite a few people in apartments and flats in the UK too.
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>>And normally closer to facilities and public transport therefore no need for a car.
In deed. Bruvs wife (80) lives round the corner to mad f (Staffy more lands) Bruv died this year leaving her on her own - never learnt to drive, one bus per day, even that was taken orf recently but back on now after a hoo ahh.
My sis (87) lives in the ham of Lewis :) .. local bus stops almost outside her council owse and although she has one foot in the grave, she's still able to get out and about in Lewisham town centre (rather her than me!!)
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>> I think Henry you may be trying to apply today's technology to tomorrow's problem.
>>
>> I have little doubt that by 2032, the technology will have moved on in leaps and bounds.
The planning and our rate of implementing things shows no signs of improving :-(
>> It's 2032! We ain't gonna be here!
>>
..but non electric cars will and I hope to be riding on decent buses not the rattling new stop start ( advanced versions ?) I have to travel in today.
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>>
>> I assume the parliamentary committee has the answers so we can all stop worrying.
>>
Of course. There will be a transition period which can be extended as problems occur.
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>>> how many more people live in flats/apartments
>>>makes a lot more sense when you are older. No stairs, no garden to worry about, someone else to clean the windows... closer to facilities and public transport therefore no need for a car.
>>>Not sure many retire to a block of flats?
>>> obviously quite a few people in apartments and flats in the UK too.
I'm sorry to admit I've always looked down on flat/apartment living as I've been lucky enough to always live with a garden and drive/garage space etc. But my views have changed massively since over the last couple of years we persuaded/bought/renovated/moved in my 87yr old folks to a top flat/apartment in a three storey (with lift) over 55s place. It was the old Victorian town hospital that finally closed in the 1980s and was converted after that.
As said above by others apart from your own interior paint and carpets the rest is all done for you with well tended grounds/gardens. All the interior hallways and communal rooms are nicely carpeted and there's a common laundry room which is very social for mum... a small library with seating area... function room/lounge with kitchen off for large family gatherings... two guest en-suite flats where visiting family/friends can stay at £20 per night. Whole place controlled by keyfob entry so very secure... it's a quiet trouble free place to live.
Main line station 3min on foot... bus stop outside... dentist 1 min walk... major hospital 8min on the bus or 4min by taxi/ambulance... bank/shops/library 5min walk... spoons 3min walk... and most important a posh furniture shop that will sell you a £2000 chair for watching TV only 2min away.
These facilities enabled the decision to give up a car just after they moved in so easy... it was an appropriate time to do so re their driving skills and worked out so well saving loads of stress.
Yep it's worked out so much better than I could ever have thought.
And re flat living in general this local smallish town has built or converted many hundreds over the last decade and apart from the usual property turnover they are fully occupied.
But back to the elec car thing the logistics of getting a charge point to every parking space in these places is immense.
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>>... spoons 3min walk... >>
Where is this Nirvana?
Nottingham?
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>>... spoons 3min walk... >> Where is this Nirvana?
I know and the opportunity to pop in and purchase another powered recliner on the walk back... Nirvana indeed.
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We cannot build enough power stations, upgrade major power networks, upgrade power networks in your street, upgrade wiring @ homes/flats or have enough power points to charge millions of new cars every night.
Petrol & Diesel will be with us for aeons.
If we have a really cold snap this winter of more there will be power cuts - old coal stations are closing &, other than windmills & some gas there is no investment. Cold snap, an outage @ the ageing Nuclear sites & we are struggling.
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I don't think the national grid are too worried. It's a challenge but it's not insurmountable, anyway I think the petrol /diesel refining and transport etc consume quite a bit of electricity.
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>>I think the petrol /diesel refining and transport etc consume quite a bit of electricity.
Refineries produce their own power & export excess to the grid.
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The grid uses 10-15 GW less at night than during the day.
That's enough.
The issue is at the local level (substations, etc) not the power stations. The current set up can cope with a few kW draw for each house.
Smart charging will mean EVs will be able to be used as grid storage also in the not-too-distant future.
20 years ago almost all urban and suburban roads and oavements were dug up so couch zombies could choose cable TV rather than a satellite dish. Didn't break the bank.
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Lygonos, how are you getting on wth the BMW?
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>> Lygonos, how are you getting on wth the BMW?
Due in December, Bobby.
Will update once it arrives - looking forward to it.
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>> 20 years ago almost all urban and suburban roads and pavements were dug up so couch
>> zombies could choose cable TV rather than a satellite dish. Didn't break the bank.
It bankrupted the cable companies at the time though. e.g. NTL had to seek Chapter 11 bankruptcy-protection in May 2002
Last edited by: rtj70 on Sun 21 Oct 18 at 14:03
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>> 20 years ago almost all urban and suburban roads and pavements were dug up....
What a poor job they did. tree damage and poor trench restoration is still obvious.
I am waiting for Virgin (or who ever they subcontract to ) to replace a crushed concrete cover in the pavement.
I guess it was a heavy lorry cutting the corner, using the pavement crushed it.
The council closed the report having just passed it on. I have insisted they reopen the report !
Surrey just a few years go changed 89,000 street lights and quite a few lamp posts ( some damaged by dogs)
Three years after completion They now want to swap to LEDs
www.surreycc.gov.uk/roads-and-transport/roadworks-and-maintenance/street-lights-traffic-signals-and-signs/street-lights/led-street-lighting.
A good example of the progress of technology plus more spare capacity for EVs
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And running cables from street cabinets back to the head-end and then coax to houses is a lot easier than running new power cables to houses from the sub-station. Power cables to our homes does not currently get routed underground making it much easier to route to homes via poles.
The hole they dug to put the charging infrastructure into the local Tesla dealer was quite large.
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Thinking about this a bit more... I'm probably wrong in thinking a lot of the local power comes from overhead lines - but I'd have expected to see access hatches to conduits like telecoms companies have.
Now recall the NW electric company putting in a new cable to the main sub-station a few years ago. Dug up miles and miles of local roads to route the new cable down residential streets, etc. And they had to 'burrow' up to one point to get the cable from near the M60 motorway.
I wonder if that cable can carry enough 'power' for all of us to eventually have more charging capacity at home. What they did was not cheap and I doubt they want to do it again soon.
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As an aside the main substation building is Grade II listed. It is quite large and made of brick in a Baroque design. Probably wouldn't need to be as big now of course but it's been there over 100 years.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Sun 21 Oct 18 at 15:44
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From what I remember it wasn't extending the infrastructure which caused Chapter 11 (in the US). I thought the bossman went on a spending spree on other companies which went bad. Hazy memory though...
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I think it was a bit of both. The cable companies NTL was buying were already in trouble because of the costs.
There were many cable companies and NTL and Telewest acquired them. In Manchester we had NYNEX (used to sponsor the arena that was bombed last year). This was merged with the Cable and Wireless subsidiary of Mercury Communications and the cable companies Videotron and Bell Cablemedia and renamed as Cable & Wireless Communications. This was then then purchased by NTL in 2000.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Sun 21 Oct 18 at 14:55
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So for Manchester as an example of a cable infrastructure, NYNEX paid for all the road digging etc. I doubt if C&W paid for the cost of all that investment.
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Refineries produce their own power & export excess to the grid.
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I didn't know that, what do they use, do they have their own GTs?
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>> Refineries produce their own power & export excess to the grid.
>> >>
>>
>> I didn't know that, what do they use, do they have their own GTs?
YUp, powered by waste gas from the refining process that otherwise would be flared off.
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...back when Pontius was a pilot. I spent several educative days doing a power-station test at ICI Wilton.
The fuel consisted, amongst other things, of an eclectic mix of bi-products of the chemical processes undertaken on site.
One of the tasks was to evaluate the efficiency of the plant, requiring amongst other things a calculation of the calorific value of the fuel. Well, good luck with that!
(They were also exporting any excess capacity to The Grid at that time).
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>> requiring amongst other things a >>calculation of the calorific value of the fuel.
>>Well, good luck with that!
It surprised me when looking at some figures that coal was not sold by the tonne or ton to power stations but on calorific value.
The power company would be invoiced a average amount then this would be adjusted based on the energy the coal actually produced - to take in to account the varying quality of the coal mined.
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>> We cannot build enough power stations, upgrade major power networks, upgrade power networks in your
>> street, upgrade wiring @ homes/flats or have enough power points to charge millions of new
>> cars every night.
The official deadline is 2040. A Parliamentary Committee says that's too late and it should be 2032. Either date is for end to sales of new ICE vehicles, not their elimination from the roads. Neither is yet cast in law and even if one were it can be changed/postponed.
The tech is coming on in leaps and bounds. Ten years ago the electric car seen most often was the G-Wizz. Look where we are now. As to charging yes, we need the infrastructure but provided demand can be managed across the day, and again tech will help here, it's manageable. I'm sure somebody recently pointed out that result of modern low consumption devices and other changes adding enough generation for electric cars would only take us back to nineties in terms of generating capacity.
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If one is to worry about anything then it should be any moves by councils to ban fossil fuel cars from coming into their towns/cities, a move likely to be made far sooner than a car sales ban and one that would have a direct effect, much sooner.
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>> If one is to worry about anything then it should be any moves by councils
>> to ban fossil fuel cars from coming into their towns/cities,
>>....one that would have a direct effect, much sooner.
>>
Amazon is expecting great results.
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>> If one is to worry about anything then it should be any moves by councils
>> to ban fossil fuel cars from coming into their towns/cities, a move likely to be
>> made far sooner than a car sales ban and one that would have a direct
>> effect, much sooner.
If these are areas where NoX is way beyond limits then banning private cars, or at least limiting the worst polluters, is a reasonable response.
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>>
>> If these are areas where NoX is way beyond limits then banning private cars, or
>> at least limiting the worst polluters, is a reasonable response.
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As long as all polluters are hit, not just the private car easy target.
What about air traffic and log-burners in cities?
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>> As long as all polluters are hit, not just the private car easy target.
>> What about air traffic and log-burners in cities?
NOX is a local pollutant that breaks down with airflow and sunlight. I accumulates locally when it overwhelms the break down or prolonged periods of zero wind allow it to gather as smog eg in the Thames basin.
Reducing the number of vehicles, particularly pre Euro 6 diesels, in specific locations is a quick and easy solution. Log burners are next - probably just needs some modification to existing smoke control orders (ie smokeless zones).
How much of smog/NOX along M1 corridor round Tinsley/Meadowhall etc comes from air traffic?
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Log burners are not a significant source of NOX pollution
They do contribute to micro particulate pollution though. By far the major source of NOX polluion are motor vehicles with diesel engines being the chief offenders. The are literally killing us. In 20 years time we will be amazed they were allowed in cities.
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Just back from a cruise around Italy.
The stink from mopeds/scooters/old cars in Naples was vile.
I can see how an asthmatic may struggle.
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>> Just back from a cruise around Italy.
>>
>> The stink from mopeds/scooters/old cars in Naples was vile.
The lack of refuse collection has a part to play in the stink
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Positively sweet compared with the island of Corfu at the moment. Tens of thousands of tons of stinking rotting garbage on the streets at the moment. Anyone thinking of going there next year please do check it out before booking.
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>> Log burners are next - probably just needs some modification to existing smoke control orders (ie smokeless zones).
We live in a smokeless zone so a log burner probably not allowed. Neighbour just bought house near us and last week had a log burner installed.
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Log burners not permitted in Santiago, and haven't been for many years.
Bonfires not permitted in Santiago, and haven't been for many years.
Open fires not permitted in Santiago, and haven't been for many years.
Wood burning stoves not permitted in Santiago, and haven't been for many years.
Largest source of pollution in Santiago last year? Wood burning.
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I won't but two big vans parked outside for 2 days with the name of the local log burner installation company. A company operating in an area that does not allow log burners.
The council can be a bit keen around here at times. Someone on our old street had new uPVC windows fitted (cheaper than wooden windows). Except it's a conservation area so they had to remove the new uPVC windows and replace them with wooden ones. Ouch. That will have cost them. Should have put wooden ones in to begin with of course.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 22 Oct 18 at 18:30
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There are DEFRA approved wood burners for smokeless zones. I doubt whether an accredited installer would risk being seen installing a stove that wasn't approved in a smoke control area.
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As part of the smokeless zone implementation not only was smokeless fuel required but also IIRC only two methods of ignition.
An electric blower. A bit like a big paint stripper on stilts.
e.g.The Grenadier electric firelighter
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Grenadier-Electric-Firelighter/202247299279?epid=2286950715&hash=item2f16e0e0cf:g:870AAOSwwzJamnp4:rk:6:pf:0
IIRC that was the one I recall from all those decades ago. A few other brands exist
A gas poker that was plugged into a pipe by the fireplace.
Now seems to be called a fire starter / poker ( I guess to stop confusing the current generation.)
Not to be confused with a electric poker that seems to be for wet concrete.
I wonder how many folks still use newspaper and matches.
( and pages sheets of broadsheet newspaper to help a fire draw ? )
Do any of these wood stoves have a built in starter ?
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Only electric cars for sale by 2032 ????? - zippy
