Motoring Discussion > Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 Miscellaneous
Thread Author: R.P. Replies: 79

 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - R.P.

Top Gear chat.

PLEASE NOTE:-

To try and maintain some kind of logical order of discussion, if you start a new subject then reply to this post and remember to change the default subject header.


Volume 24 is HERE:-

577229

Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 30 Dec 19 at 03:02
 New presenters... - No FM2R
Not sure what I think about this, could be ok.

www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-45937945
 New presenters... - sooty123
Not sure it'll work, when i see AF on tv I think he sould stick to cricket. He comes across as very wooden and awkward not a natural presenter or funny man. PM can be ok, in some things not sure this is his sort of show.
 New presenters... - No FM2R
It's Savage I was unsure of, I've only ever seen him on MotD and he was awful.
 New presenters... - Crankcase
Had the email from Amazon the other day asking for Grand Tour ticket applications, so I guess the final series of that is about to be broadcast too. I'll watch whatever they do, but won't be watching Top Gear unless they do some car I care about.
 New presenters... - Boxsterboy
>> Not sure what I think about this, could be ok.
>>
>> www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-45937945
>>

Brave of the Beeb to employ presenters on a car show who only have their driving licences thanks to the 'skill' of Nick 'Mr Loophole' Freeman!
 Top Gear - No FM2R
As part of my downtime Christmas - NY where I have also been avoiding the family as much as possible (doesn't everybody have Man Caves?] I've been obsessing over UK TV.

I've just been catching up on Top Gear. I was never a dedicated viewer, but I don't think I've watched an entire episode since the Clarkson-3 left.

Which I appreciate makes me very late to the game and my comments even more irrelevant than usual.

That said, I think Matt LeBlanc is [was] really good. I wish I'd paid more attention and been less dismissive. Sadly he was coupled with s***e producers and even s***tier script writers and some close to s***e fellow presenters, but LeBlanc was good.

I hope he doesn't give up on presenting.
 Top Gear - DP
I've been a big fan of Chris Harris since his YouTube days. The guy genuinely loves cars, and articulates better than any other presenter I can think of just how a car drives, how it feels, and what makes it enjoyable (or not). He is also a very entertaining driver in the same mould as Tiff Needell, with spectacular car control on circuits.

He did a great piece on the Ferrari F40 and F50 tying in with the Fast Lane tapes with Mark Hales from the 80s. There's a bit of shouting and whooping in this, for which he apologises at the end:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MDTcXGsjuo
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - Fullchat
Can anyone identify the hill which they drove the Ignis and the Panda up in tonight's episode 17/2/19. I'm making an assumption it was in Scotland.
Last edited by: Fullchat on Sun 17 Feb 19 at 21:29
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - Boxsterboy
They mentioned the name, but I didn't catch it - one for catch up.

As very pleasant as Sabine is on the eye, she could do with shouting less and talking more.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - zippy
Really enjoyed it and it is certainly more polished than The Grand Tour.

I liked the bit with the two small cars, shame that they didn't get the new Jimny, its higher clearance might have made quite a difference on that hill.

Gurlet Hill

www.themountainguide.co.uk/scotland/gurlet.htm

 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - tyrednemotional
...weren't the shots of the Lofoten Islands brilliant?

(actually, come to think of it, it might have been the Atlantic Highway given the other locations).
Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Mon 18 Feb 19 at 11:49
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - Fullchat
Gurlet Hill. I'm obliged.

I tried Googling what I'd thought they had said and was nowhere close.

Top Gear extra showed how they had filmed the feature and the type of vehicles, equipment and staffing they used. Quite good.

Being the Saddo I am I have tried to home in on where they started the climb. The A924 runs to the South from Pitlochry to the West to The Bridge of Cally and the A93 to the East. Nothing obvious there. There is another minor road to the NorthWest side but not covered by Google Street.

Seriously, my interest stems from finding decent riding roads for my Scotland trips and the aforementioned A924 seem to fit the bill.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - Bobby
Will watch Top Gear extra in due course.

Re Ignis v Panda, assume they tell the suppliers that the car will be given a hammering?

Wonder if the suppliers are just happy with the coverage and not too bothered about the outcome? There will be someone out there that picks the Panda over the Ignis cos the Ignis needed an anchor and winch to get up the same hill that the Panda just drove up!
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - zippy
>> There will be someone out there that picks the Panda over the Ignis
>> cos the Ignis needed an anchor and winch to get up the same hill that
>> the Panda just drove up!

I thought they both used land anchors. I will need to re-watch that section.

Re the suppliers, that sort of free advertising must be worth millions. Remember when Toyota lent them a "team" of Aygos and they used them to play football? Must have been on for about 15 minutes - primetime - to a dedicated audience.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 19 Feb 19 at 02:13
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - VxFan
>> I thought they both used land anchors.

Correct.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - VxFan
Sunday 10th March.

Quite a humorous episode I thought (with the exemption of star in a fast car - why don't they get rid of it?)

3 blokes, given £6k each to spend on a 2nd hand car, and compete against a new Dacia Sandero in a series of challenges, including a 6 hour endurance race at Silverstone.

Yes, it's pretty much the same format all over again, but it seems to work, so why change the recipe?

www.topgear.com/car-news/top-gear-tv/recap-top-gear-series-26-episode-4#1

ps, wonder if Roger watched it?
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - zippy
Sunday 16/06/2019 - Season 27 E1.

Not impressed.

There was very little personal connection with and between the presenters.

Some of the roads in Ethiopia had fewer potholes than the roads here!
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - Zero
That was very weird, Started off well, and then I just cant figure out what happened between the presenters, it seemed quite hostile at one point.

Very disjointed.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - VxFan
Seems we have another shouty person who goes by the name Paddy McGuinness. I can just about tolerate him on other stuff, but on TG - No Likey.

They really need to think about changing the format though. All they're doing is just trying to mimic past presenters and their antics, but doing it very poorly.

"Oh look, Harris is shorter than us, lets take the mick about his height." That's already been done guys, many series ago with Hammond the Hamster. Find some new material.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - No FM2R
In the Telegraph they are quoted as saying 'they would bring a “different vibe” to the revamped show'.

I guess I missed the different vibe and the revamping.

>>>All they're doing is just trying to mimic past presenters

The behaviour, the 'banter' and even to the extent of the tone changing towards the end of a trip to the "we suddenly realised we had grown to love our cars / the country / our holiday..........".

They are never going to be as good at being Clarkson, Hammond and May as the originals continue to be - obviously. They need to stop trying to faithfully copy them and decide how they are going to present it in an original style..

The forced shouty stuff and forced mickey taking was toe-curling. The original three had been working together for 15 years before they fully achieved that, and these guys are faking it on the first show?

Flintoff could be ok I think, Harris is a bit grey and meh, but McGuinness is unbearable.

 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - zippy
I actually missed Rory Reid. He got on with Matt LeBlanc and Chris Harris and was generally a cheerful chap.

He also did some of the testing of more normal cars like the Suzuki Ignis which was very watchable.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - VxFan
>> I actually missed Rory Reid.

+1.

Has Top Gear Extra Gear been cancelled? It used to follow after TG. If so Rory won't be back hosting it either.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - No FM2R
I think Rory Reid is now presenting Top Gear: Electric which is online only.

Not seen anything about Extra Gear.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - Zero
I miss Mat LeBlanc. He really did grow into that role, becoming the very dry, sharp and cruel humour based lead. I thought he was a knob before TG, but I liked him a lot at the end.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - Duncan

>> Flintoff could be ok I think, Harris is a bit grey and meh, but McGuinness
>> is unbearable.

Who are/were they?

Flintoff was a cricketer, I know that.

What about the other two?
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - No FM2R
McGuinness has appeared since I left the UK, so I know no more than Google, though I've seen him pop up on the odd quiz show. As for Harris, not a clue.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - Manatee
I'd never heard of McGuinness either. I don't think I can stand him. I watched the intro then found something else to do with the vague intention of watching it another time.

To start the first show by mocking Harris's height was pathetically banal - if that makes the edit, how bad is the rest of it?

I'm not expecting erudition, but some wit would be nice. Bad show BBC.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - VxFan
>> What about the other two?

Here's what DP previously said about Harris.

www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?v=e&t=26348&m=582993

Surely you've heard of Paddy?

Been hosting "Take me out" for a number of years now. Some sort of crap dating program.

He's also done various things with Keith Lemon (Leigh Francis).

Keith & Paddy's picture show.
Has recently taken over from Fern Cotton on Celeb Juice.
Just Google his name and he's been on the 'celeb' scene for a long time.

Doesn't make him less of an irritating tit though.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - Lygonos
Saw a couple of Keith and Paddy's picture show and thought it was pretty well done.

But in most other shows he does chafe my nipples.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - VxFan
Seems some of the critics were watching a different episode of TG to the rest of us.

"Top Gear: 'Warm' return praised by TV critics"

www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-48660623

===========

"Top Gear off to a flying start as new line-up lands best viewing figures in three series"

www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/top-gear-flying-start-new-16532138

===========

"Based on this first episode though, the BBC programme looks to be back on track with a winning formula, combining the bits viewers love with some genuine charm."

www.digitalspy.com/tv/reality-tv/a28035721/top-gear-review-episode-one-paddy-freddie-flintoff-series-27/

===========

"Paddy McGuinness and Freddie Flintoff ‘saved’ Top Gear says original The Stig"

metro.co.uk/2019/06/17/paddy-mcguinness-freddie-flintoff-saved-top-gear-says-original-stig-9980659/



 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - Netsur
I found it rather cringeing at times; forced humour and wooden set pieces. The Ethiopian road trip could have been great but wasn't a patch on the old TG; Cinematography was not as good, less excitement on the roads and no explanation about how the Boxter got its fans.

Didn't leave me wanting any more, only, the opening credits have got me interested as they have clearly driven a Matra-Simca Bagheera, which was a car both my father and I wanted to own. We found the only one on the North West about 25 years ago, but was a total dog so we walked. So I am interested in watching that episode.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - Kevin
>..a Matra-Simca Bagheera, which was a car both my father and I wanted to own.

A friend has one fitted with the 1.9 engine out of a Pug 205GTi.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - No FM2R
I always wanted a Matra Rancho - a Discovery before Landrover made Discoverys.

It was probably crap but I always wanted one.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - Manatee
My brother had one. Had longitudinal seats in the rear IIRC. It was mechanically a bit iffy and also only 2WD unless my memory is at fault - it might well be, it was a long time ago.

I watched the rest of TG. I mostly just wanted McGuinness to shut up for a while.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - No FM2R
Yes, I think it was 2WD. I've never been in one but the chap down the street had one and I always fancied one myself.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - Zero
I always wanted a rancher as well, till I found out they went rotten faster than a chysler 180
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - No FM2R
>> they went rotten faster than a chysler 180

I had the Chrysler 2litre. Same car, different engine. I absolutely loved it. OK, it looked like a b***** great Hillman Avenger, but it was gloriously comfortable to drive, had tons of space, and was bullet proof.

I only ever had the one and I got it by mistake, so I knew nothing about them. Mine didn't rust, but I don't doudt you.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - Lygonos
I used to get the annual Daily Express car magazine in the early 80s and the Bagheera did look funky at the time.

I also recall the Porsche 924 costing something like £9103, and the Panther Kallista looking cool as.

What do children know?
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - Kevin
>I also recall the Porsche 924 costing something like £9103,

The 924 and 944 were criticised as the poor man's Porsche but practically saved the company.

When I was given the producer I was driving a 944 Turbo S. Even in standard tune it would easily see off a Sierra Cosworth and yet insurance premiums were about one third of the Cosworth's. With the rear transaxle it needed sympathy with gearchanges though.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - bathtub tom
Wasn't the Rancho a Simca 1100 with the same tappety, rattly engine?
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - Manatee
>> Wasn't the Rancho a Simca 1100 with the same tappety, rattly engine?

I believe so, and the same level of rustproofing. EDIT - just looked it up, it had a 1400 engine.
Last edited by: Manatee on Wed 19 Jun 19 at 09:41
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - Bromptonaut
Like others here I fancied one for a while but even with my penchant for things French a Simca was a step too far.

My Dad had a Simca 1500 estate as a firms car from 66-69. By the end of that time it was shot.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - zippy
Tonight's episode was dire.

More shouting, forced humor and the electric shock thing was infantile and then fat shaming.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - VxFan
>> More shouting,

I get the impression that Paddy McLoudmouth thinks he's in charge of the show. If anyone should have that role, it should be Chris. He's been there the longest and has a real connection with cars.

Why didn't they show Stig's lap in the Tesla? That could have been interesting, given how the Tesla isn't set up for handling.

Is it me, or is Flintoff's presenting style wooden?
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - No FM2R
Just awful. Forced, contrived and not funny. Surely they cannot continue like this.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - VxFan
>> Surely they cannot continue like this.

Apart from the studio stuff, most of it will have been filmed - unfortunately.

Amazingly though, the new series is getting rave reviews! I've seen comments such as

"so funny, I almost peed my pants"
"It's great now Leblanc's gone"
"Top Gear is funny again"

They must have been watching different episodes than I've been watching.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - Dieselboy
Or they were watching the same episode and just have a differing opinion. The world would be a boring place if we all thought the same.

Just don't watch it if you find it that awful.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - Crankcase
Not watched it myself, but did see a comment along the lines of "it was always three old blokes complaining about the younger generation and the world changing around them. Now it's three younger blokes complaining about the stuffy older ones. It's great".

Any truth in that?
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - Manatee
>> Just don't watch it if you find it that awful.

Can't argue with that. And McLoudmouth (I like that) has his fans - but I'm guessing they aren't typical TG watchers, if there is such a thing.

Is this is what he is 'famous' for?

www.youtube.com/watch?v=khYxW8iCVDw

It's possible that TG will find a new audience - the wit has gone to be replaced by shouty, lager and shots laddishness (cf. the red wine drinking laddishness of Clarkson/May Hammond).

I don't think so, but it might turn out to be a successful repositioning. Or it could turn out like Marks & Spencer's, when it moved away from its middle-aged fanbase, failed to capture enough of the younger, trendier target market and floundered, such that it has never really recovered.

Flintoff is struggling I think. Maybe he'll get the hang of it. Wouldn't be surprised if Harris bails, depending on how attached he is to the money.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - VxFan
>> Wouldn't be surprised if Harris bails

He does seem to be at the brunt of the new boys "jokes". References to his thinning hair, height, weight, etc. Seems the BBC haven't heard of the Equality Act ;)
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - zippy
Seems the BBC haven't heard of the Equality Act
>> ;)
>>

Where is Rory!

The only reasonable bit in the entire episode was the segment with the Tesla 3. Chris did say it was the sporty model and they start at £39k. The one he drove was nearer £60k. The paint alone is nearly £2k!
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - Lygonos
Model 3 Performance now £49k base.

Would wait until July when flat white is due to become the 'free' paint rather than black....

Episode was horselumps apart from Harris's review of the Tesla - must admit to a smile when they did the drag vs M3/Alfa/C63 and it shot away from them off the line.

The Alfa looks beautiful.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - No FM2R
It's difficult to know how much they'll settle down. It is all forced and loud at the moment, but perhaps that's because they're new.

McGuinness's loud and in-your-face approach doesn't seem to work for Harris and even Flintoff seems uncomfortable.

The future episodes may have been filmed, but editing can change a lot of things.

However, as Manatee said, perhaps they're after a different audience. Perhaps the original audience has largely sloped off with The Grand Tour.

The new target audience doesn't see to be me, which is a shame, but perhaps that's why the reviews seem to different to my own opinions.

Two of the three presenters know nothing about cars, have no experience of reviewing cars, no experience of a motor show, no knowledge of engineering, no business or industry expertise, and seemingly no relevant knowledge or experience at all.

Perhaps that's intentional.

As for not watching it, if it stays like this I guess I'll drift away from it. But I wanted to like it.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - VxFan
Episode 3

Hmmmm!

If it weren't for all the shouting (yes YOU Paddy!), trying to mimic past presenters, and some of the puerile stuff, then it wouldn't be too bad a show.

Watchable, yes but only in a "background, I've got other stuff to do while it's on" kind of way.
Enjoyable. no.

I really think that the BBC have lost the meaning of what falls into the category of entertainment just lately.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - No FM2R
The reviews online continue to be good, I continue to think it's s***e.

Don't think I shall bother with any more episodes, it's not getting better.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - Zero
I watched it, but it was kind of background noise, so I don't think I actually saw much of it.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - sooty123
My OH enjoys the latest series, probably as much when Clarkson did it. She remembers that its on before I do. It's ok to have on in the background.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - Runfer D'Hills
That's interesting Sooty. I'm not particularly taken with the new set up, but I seem to be less irritated by it than some.

My wife though much prefers the new team to the Clarkson/May/Hammond combination and laughs out loud at McGuiness and Flintoff. I find them a bit, I don't know what to say really, childish maybe, a poor imitation of the original, a bit like one of those Children in Need spoofs of a real programme.

However, there is very little else to watch on our favourite subject and if that's all there is, it'll have to do I suppose.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - VxFan
>> I watched it, but it was kind of background noise,

Paddy McLoudmouth is hardly background noise, unless you turn the sound of the TV right down to nought. His voice just really grates on me, along with his accent and silly pronunciation of words.

Freddie Turnoff sounds far too much like Vernon Kay, and I don't particularly care much for either of them.

Chris is about the only decent presenter on TG right now, and he doesn't seem to get much of a look in anymore.

Stig has vanished too, and we're told if we want to see any of his hot laps then we have to watch them on-line.

Shame they didn't make the z list celeb part vanish too.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - Oldgit
I think it's awful. Crass or puerile whichever word suits this programme best.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - Duncan
Where have you been?
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - bathtub tom
>> Where have you been?

Keeping an eye on Rip Van Winkle?
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - Oldgit
>> Where have you been?
>>
One gets out of the habit of contributing to forums sometimes. I got banned from DS by holding some strong views that they found exceeded their T&C's so thought I'd just read rather than make comments. The older I get (now in me Eighties) I find it difficult to succumb to petty restrictions at least as I see them.
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - Duncan
>> I got banned from DS

Digital Spy?
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - Manatee
>> I think it's awful. Crass or puerile whichever word suits this programme best.

Both. Probably why there's quite a demand for it.
Last edited by: Manatee on Thu 18 Jul 19 at 17:54
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - VxFan
I have a confession, I actually enjoyed Sunday's episode.

Chris and Freddie's Iceland article was quite good.

Take Paddy McLoudmouth out of the equation, and suddenly Freddie isn't quite so boisterous and irritating.

So that's the answer. Get rid of McLoudmouth, aka Chris Evans mk2.

And wouldn't it be a hoot to have Jezza, May, and Hammond turn up as guests for star(s) in a race car.



 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - No FM2R
I agree with that. Paddy is and causes the problem. The bits without him were fine. Obviously a work in progress, but fine.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 18 Jul 19 at 20:58
 Top Gear Discussion Thread - Volume 25 - No FM2R
>>And wouldn't it be a hoot to have Jezza, May, and Hammond turn up as guests for star(s) in a race car.

They'd be fools to do it.

Nothing makes a fondly remembered older model look dated and inadequate like standing it next to the updated model.
 Top Gear Christmas Special - Nepal - VxFan
I have to say that was one of the best episodes of TG I've watched in a very long time.

IMHO it was also a whole lot better than The Grand Tour's effort as well.

TG 1, TGT 0.

I know some of it was predicable, even with relatively new presenters, but on the whole it worked. Not to mention some of the scenery too.

3 totally different cars used for the challenge too. I can remember the local farm had one of those Renault 4's, and that was a pretty much go anywhere vehicle. I've seen one driven across a muddy field and not getting stuck. So what you saw on TG wasn't staged.

More episodes like that please.

 Top Gear Christmas Special - Nepal - R.P.
I didn't watch it, but a friend who sees cars as household appliances sent me an SMS to say that it was very good. Will watch it on catch up.
 Top Gear Christmas Special - Nepal - VxFan
Just me who enjoyed the Chrimbo special then?
 Top Gear Christmas Special - Nepal - Runfer D'Hills
It was ok. I have felt that a Renault 4 was something I should have had, along with a 2CV, but I never got around to either. Had a couple of Mk1 Pandas instead at that stage in my motoring life. I reckon they might have done ok on that trip. Took one of them on Alpine skiing trips a couple of times and it coped very well with deep snow and altitude. Certainly managed very well on rough tracks in Scotland too when attempting to access stupid places to ride a bike.
 Top Gear Christmas Special - Nepal - mazda chris
It was ok, its Paddy mqguinnis that spoils it for me he is always having a go at chris Harris and then Freddie Flintoff starts as well. When paddy isn't around Flintoff is a really nice bloke and gets on well with Harris maybe its banter but I find mcguiness a bully...
Last edited by: mazda chris on Thu 2 Jan 20 at 13:19
 Top Gear Christmas Special - Nepal - Zero
It was quite entertaining, but I'm afraid I was appalled by the treatment the rather tasty 106 got, and that of the '4 which looked in good nick and should have been feted as a classic!
 Top Gear Christmas Special - Nepal - VxFan
>> It was quite entertaining, but I'm afraid I was appalled by the treatment the rather
>> tasty 106 got, and that of the '4 which looked in good nick and should
>> have been feted as a classic!

Come on, since when have TG ever shown any mechanical sympathy to a vehicle?
 Top Gear Christmas Special - Nepal - Crankcase

>> Come on, since when have TG ever shown any mechanical sympathy to a vehicle?


Oliver, of course.
 Top Gear Christmas Special - Nepal - VxFan
>> Oliver, of course.

Nope. Hammond tried drowning it.

youtu.be/J9O-yg17OQI
 Top Gear Christmas Special - Nepal - CGNorwich
It’s so past it’s sell-by date. Time to do the decent thing and put it out of its misery
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