I don't do that much motorway driving, so am probably out of touch.
Last weekend we used the M6, and there were acres of overhead gantries with variable speed limits. All good, except that by coincidence I found a long thread on another forum this morning about them which has challenged my understanding.
Those here I'm sure know the answer, hence asking.
So - I took the view that if a gantry has 60 on it, then as you go under it 60 is the limit. No issue there. However, I also took the view that if the next gantry wasn't illuminated, then that meant the variable limit was over and now you can go at 70 again.
It appears I was wrong - you are supposed to stay at 60 until told otherwise by another limit or a NSL sign.
Really? I can see the logic, but I'm sure not all those limits I went through had NSLs at the end. I'd probably have been driving 80 miles at 40mph if I'd waited for a non existent sign telling me it was all over. And of course everyone else treated it as I understood it.
I know that PRACTICALLY speeding up under a non-lit gantry is ok, as the camera won't fire unless you are over 70odd anyway?
What do you do?
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I thought it was common sense that a speed limit applies until you see a different limit or NSL sign. Apparently not.
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Wgich section of the M6 was this?
Never noticed the phenomenon mentioned by the OP on the VSL parts of M1 or M25. MAybe a difference between 'smart motorway' 'managed motorway' and 'all lane running'?
I would expect the limit to apply until either (a) a different limit or de-restriction was shown on a gantry or (b) there is an end of variable speed limit sign.
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Haven't notices variable speed limits not having a NSL display at the end on the ones I have used.
However I always believed that, in the absence of repeaters on an unlit road the speed limit is whatever NSL would normally apply to that kind of road, so the OP could well be right on that basis that it would revert to 70 if a variable limit on an unlit motorway did not have a NSL sign.
But then I could be wrong
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>> I thought it was common sense that a speed limit applies until you see a
>> different limit or NSL sign. Apparently not.
>>
CG, you either haven't been in the situation - a handful of lit gantries followed by a couple of unlit gantries. Or do you travel at 50mph for many miles hoping for a new speed limit sign somewhere when everyone else on the road has increased back to normal running after the first unlit gantry?
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Daft question probably, but are you sure you were on a managed motorway with enforceable variable limits, and not just see advisory limits?
I can't recall the phenomenon you describe, I can't recall exactly what I have seen on managed motorways but I have never been left in doubt about what the limit was and whether it had ended.
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>> Daft question probably, but are you sure you were on a managed motorway with enforceable
>> variable limits, and not just see advisory limits?
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>> I can't recall the phenomenon you describe, I can't recall exactly what I have seen
>> on managed motorways but I have never been left in doubt about what the limit
>> was and whether it had ended.
Red rings around speed limit, M6. Enforceable surely?
There wasn't doubt at the time, because it was "evident" to me that no light at all=end of variable zone. "Confirmed" by behaviour of everyone else.
Now I think I was wrong to assume that.
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For the terminally bored, here is an example (I've just found) where someone was in the same situation, and of course, the endless answers about it:
www.sabre-roads.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=34466
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>>
>> Red rings around speed limit, M6. Enforceable surely?
OK it was a daft question as I suspected:) That would make me wary too.
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If its a variable speed limit zone, it will be so marked at the start and end of the zone with permanent signs.
The variable speed limits if lit will have a lit NSL sign at the end of the temporary speed limit section, If there is no NSL sign lit, there is a technical error* Unless of course there is a temporary speed limit to the end of the entire zone, (permanent sign remember) when it no longer applies and becomes advisory.
*you may or may not get away with it in court, but you try proving it. I would estimate, based on experience that 40% of the time electronic motorway signage is by error.
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ISTR when I did the IAM some years back that End of Roadworks also implied end of speed limit, if the limit was there because of the works.
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I remember frequently seeing MIAM badges displayed on the rear end of motors when I was a youngster. Can't recall spotting any in recent years, though.
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I think general motorway signage can be poor.
Recent examples include a lane closed sign just left at the side of lane 4 with no sign cancelling for the 20 or so miles after and no sign of any works or need for the sign. No doubt a jobs-worth police officer could fine all the motorists that ignored the sign.
Overhead gantries showing closed lanes (lots of people ignoring them) and no sign to show when they had cleared. In fact overhead signs very rarely use "END" to signify the last sign is now cancelled.
I dislike the blank speed signs. If the limit is variable, then each gantry should have the limit to avoid confusion.
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>> Recent examples include a lane closed sign just left at the side of lane 4
>> with no sign cancelling for the 20 or so miles after and no sign of
>> any works or need for the sign.
When you say left at side of lane 4 do you mean an overhead gantry sign or something metal or plastic on the side of the carriageway?
My own experience of gantries and VSL is pretty good although I wish they'd prosecute people who ignore land closed signs. I've seen Highway Agency staff having to desperately wave offenders out as they bear down on scene of incident.
We were on M25 near A10 yesterday when speed limit gradually dropped to 40 with message 'Report of Accident. Everything ground to a near halt after the tunneled section followed by closure of lanes 1 and 2. On this occasion drivers were actually complying. Though the road was stopped completely for several minutes. Passing site where vehicles had been moved to lane one it looked like a non injury side swipe by a UK/RHD truck to a car on its nearside. Under way at normal speed again with NSL sign and 'End' to confirm.
M20 currently has miles and miles of 50 limit Ashford most of way to M26. Starts with a new junction under construction near Ashford followed by 15 miles or so for Operation Brock; infrastructure to allow contraflow on London bound side while coast bound is used as a lorry park. No sooner are you at end of that then there's another long section for conversion to All Lane Running. We had the caravan on tow so only reduced our speed by 10mph (though improvement in fuel consumption was vary marked). Explained why Google showed such a long section hi-lited orange for slow running.
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>>When you say left at side of lane 4 do you mean an overhead gantry sign or something metal or plastic on the side of the carriageway?
A metal one in this instance but sometimes the overhead ones as well.
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>> I think general motorway signage can be poor.
My thoughts as well, lots of warnings that turn out to be non existent incidents or accidents. I found I could safely ignore most of them.
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Going North from the Chiswick roundabout there is significant bridge rebuilding going on (for ever!). The road has been narrowed to a 1+1 at the moment (it used to be 2+2 and recently 2N+1S).
The yellow signs at the side of the road - the ones with BIG ARROWS show it as 2N+1S.
When the traffic is heavy there is no problem in people recognising where you should (can) be, but for people not familar with what is happening , in light traffic, it is an accident waiting to happen! There is no (temporary) barrier between the bidirectional traffic.
Last edited by: sherlock47 on Thu 21 Feb 19 at 08:16
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>> When the traffic is heavy there is no problem in people recognising where you should
>> (can) be, but for people not familar with what is happening , in light traffic,
North Circular from Chiswick + Light traffic? A combo thats never happened in my lifetime.
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I had the same problem on the m3 last Friday between Junc 2-4 , as I came off the m25 onto the m3 , it was 50mph as it is now set , after about 2 miles NSL Comes Up , But on the next gantry it had Inside lane closed , and 40mph , this was on every gantry for the next 3 miles or so ......typically there was nothing during that time necessaitating the inside lane to be closed .
Then there were two gantries with nothing , so I and other sped up , only to find the next gantry was 40mph .
After 5 miles of nothing up came the NSl
There ought to be a National Telephone number to ring and ask , wtf the road still had restrictions when there was nothing wrong
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Where's the end of a variable limit? - CGNorwich
