I've never down this before, I've either replaced fronts or rears separately when worn, the last time it just coincided that I replaced all four together.
At the moment my rears are down to about 5mm and fronts 3mm, I still want to stick with my current Michelin's but go to a different version so it would make sense to try and have all four wear out at roughly the same time.
so is it best to simply swap front and rear on the same side or go right/left rear to left/right front?
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Front to rear should be fine.
If you're considering swapping sides as well, then you need to make sure your tyres are non directional ones.
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In most handbooks it gives you instructions on how best to rotate your cars tyres.
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My handbook does not. And I would research any issues with TPMS before you start blindly rotating tyres.
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Would the OP's 13 yr old Golf have TPMS though?
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>> Would the OP's 13 yr old Golf have TPMS though?
Not sure I see in the OP's post its for a 13 year old golf. And my reply was not to the OP.
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>> Not sure I see in the OP's post its for a 13 year old golf.
He is referring to his car "At the moment my rears are down to about 5mm and fronts 3mm"
Didn't take very long to find out what his car was via a forum search.
>> And my reply was not to the OP.
But he was asking a question about rotating his tyres, so it could be assumed you were answering his question, as well as anyone else's posts.
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>> My handbook does not. And I would research any issues with TPMS before you start
>> blindly rotating tyres.
>>
Mine neither, though as it has a staggered tyre set up with rear tyres wider than fronts it’s academic. However the winter wheels / tyres (yes, yes, I know...) are all the same size and have the same TPMS sensors (that’s to say the ones that show individual tyre pressures and temperatures on the I drive screen). They cope fine with being in any position on the car; the system just needs resetting when the wheels are changed.
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Mine does, some others do.
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>>At the moment my rears are down to about 5mm and fronts 3mm,
Keep them the way they are, rears run wear down quicker that's why its recommended to put new on the back innit...... :)
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>> >>At the moment my rears are down to about 5mm and fronts 3mm,
>> Keep them the way they are, rears run wear down quicker that's why its recommended
>> to put new on the back innit...... :)
OP doesn't say if it's RWD or FWD. If the latter, then I'd suggest it won't be long before the fronts need replacing, in which case they can opt to have the new ones fitted on the back (along with recommendations - although I don't know why, I'd rather go through the hedge backwards rather than see the cause of my demise).
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Sorry yes I'm still running my 2006 Golf DSG (from new).
As I mentioned I would like to change tyre types so it would be best to do all four at the same time, which means I would like them all to need replacing together and not fronts then rears (also better deal from ATS doing all four).
Basic wheel/tyre setup so I'll just swap front to rears keeping the same sides together.
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Had a funny one with my car, which I was reminded of when it happened again recently.
I needed a new pair of tyres to replace the fronts and in line with what I thought was recommendations I had them replaced then swapped to the back.
Shortly afterwards I noticed an issue with the traction control cutting in on moderate fast left hand bends - made more noticeable by it kicking off the cruise control abruptly.
Sp I reported the problem on the vehicle forum and the resident guru asked if I'd had new tyres.
Apparently the small difference in circumference between new and half-worn tyres was enough to trigger the traction control. I didn't believe it but had them swapped anyway and the problem went away (I had a corner I could reliably reproduce it on, on teh dual carriageway Bagshot Road).
I have just had the rears replaced and guess what - I forgot about the above so I need to pop in somewhere and get them swapped again, as the traction control problem is back!!
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Almost certainly at my first tyre change the runflats are coming off to be replaced with real tyres and with 26k miles up, it wont be far away
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 26 Jul 19 at 21:26
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>> Almost certainly at my first tyre change the runflats are coming off to be replaced
>> with real tyres and with 26k miles up, it wont be far away
>>
Based on my experience, I’d agree that that’s a good plan! I had an E61 535d touring back in 05/06 which came on RE050 (?) Bridgestone run flats...hateful tyres, and the ride was much improved on non run-flat Michelins. I only managed 15k miles from the rear tyres though... Run-flats were a no cost option on the 235i, and one I didn’t select. It’s ride, on standard suspension, is also more compliant than run flat equipped 135/140s I’ve driven, as is its handling predictability when pressing on. Though I accept the increased weight might have something to do with that, and also that ride was not the primary reason for buying it!
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>> Almost certainly at my first tyre change the runflats are coming off to be replaced
>> with real tyres and with 26k miles up, it wont be far away
How will that affect your warranty, or don't you care? Spare?
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"Keep them the way they are, rears run wear down quicker that's why its recommended to put new on the back innit...... :)"
Wrong on both counts generally speaking. Fronts tend to wear quicker than rears. it is generally recommend to put new tyres on the back to give better grip and avoid the danger of sudden, uncontrollable break away. There are numerous websites that give more depth and detail as to why, here's one for example - kumhotyre.co.uk/kumho-news/should-you-fit-new-tyres-to-the-front-or-rear/
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>> it is generally recommend to put new tyres on the back to give better grip and avoid
>> the danger of sudden, uncontrollable break away.
Always have put new ones on the front. The rears are only there to stop the car body dragging the ground. At no point in all the tyre garages I've used in 34 years of motoring have they recommended fitting new tyres to the rear.
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I'm sure all this stuff is true and valid, but to be honest I simply cannot be a***d.
I like tyres with a decent amount of tread, so all my wheels all have decent tread. In the real world I do not believe that, provided all your tyres are good, it matters where the new ones go, at all.
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...I wouldn't recommend putting them in the boot.......
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Why not? That's where I keep all these oil filters I have to keep on buying.
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“The rears are only there to stop the car body dragging on the ground”
If you had ever experienced a rear wheel skid you would think differently. They can be very sudden with little or no warning and with uncontrollable consequences. Extreme example but an elderly Porsche anyone? Costco will only fit new tyres to the front.
Of course for the vast majority of us who drive in a properly maintained car and well within the limits of our vehicle’s capability this is not an issue. Advanced driving, test track and skid pan experiences are very illustrative,
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>> “The rears are only there to stop the car body dragging on the ground”
>>
>> If you had ever experienced a rear wheel skid you would think differently. They can
>> be very sudden with little or no warning and with uncontrollable consequences. Extreme example but
>> an elderly Porsche anyone?
No but a big engined ford capri, I know all about oversteer. I'll put the newer tyres where the traction is thank you which is up front on a FWD car, if you have traction up front you can drive out of oversteer.
Was off to a dog show early this morning, Kent again, heavy standing water on the M25, the 25k old tyres were a bit twitchy in the deeper puddles, with a flicker of stability control light from time to time. I'll have to measure them see how much tread I have, nowhere near the twi blocks yet tho
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I have mostly driven FWD cars and have always put new tyres on the driven, steering wheels. It has never caused me any issues as I don't drive on limits that would involve my tail end swinging out.
I now have a BMW X1 with xdrive - assume this x drive is same as yours Zero in which case is it permanent AWD and is there a bias between front and rear?
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X drive is permanent (as in thats its normal mode) 4WD with 60% torque to rear. A central electronic multiple plate clutch can instantly switch this percentage to 100% (or anything in between) front to back axles when needed, but will always try and revert to 40/60 ASAP.
Drive to individual wheels on an axle, is controlled by traction control system, by braking individual wheels.
You can expect it to power you up a snowy hill at 60 MPH, but its not going to drag you off a muddy field towing a caravan at 5mph. Its a performance fwd set up, not agricultural.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 29 Jul 19 at 16:18
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Cheers - interesting!
I am on the non run flats and from what I have heard and read, thats a good thing. Had my first puncture (slow) in years the other week, tenner to repair it at my local guy.
He did give me a row for not applying handbrake though! Says I will regret it at MOT time if its not been used! Which is something I very rarely do now unless its on a very steep hill.
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My handbrake applies itself when ever it goes into park, it goes into park every time you turn it off and open the door.
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Mines definitely doesn’t do that!
Handbrake only comes on if you pull the button.
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You have to pull a lever? Whats a lever?
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>> My handbrake applies itself when ever it goes into park, it goes into park every
>> time you turn it off and open the door.
>>
That should give you an idea of the age profile of the target market.
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>> That should give you an idea of the age profile of the target market.
IF that was the case, it would have a three pointed star on it.
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>> X drive is permanent (as in thats its normal mode) 4WD with 60% torque to
>> rear.
>>
Given that the X1 is nominally a FWD design (its state in all but Xdrive form), rather than the usual RWD BMW, I'm going to question this, even though I can find nothing to indicate it is wrong.
My expectation would have been that in this case the normal bias would have been reversed, replicating the (very) FWD bias of the non-Xdrive models.
My expectation may well be wrong.
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...and, committing the sin of replying to my own post....
I wasn't sure whether I had assumed the FWD bias of Xdrive on the X1, or whether I had read it around the time of purchase. A quick check reveals that the system is indeed different to the RWD cars. The bias is definitely to FWD, to the extent that the 'normal/default' situation is 100% to the front, transfer to the rear occurring progressively as conditions/sensors dictate. I haven't as yet found any definition of the maximum transfer to the rear.
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>> ...and, committing the sin of replying to my own post....
>>
>> I wasn't sure whether I had assumed the FWD bias of Xdrive on the X1,
>> or whether I had read it around the time of purchase. A quick check reveals
>> that the system is indeed different to the RWD cars. The bias is definitely to
>> FWD, to the extent that the 'normal/default' situation is 100% to the front, transfer to
>> the rear occurring progressively as conditions/sensors dictate. I haven't as yet found any definition of
>> the maximum transfer to the rear.
Sorry I keep forgetting the F48 is a jacked up mini.
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Apologies. A slip of the keyboard. Costco will only fit a new pair of tyres on the rear, not the front. The last time I was there, some years ago now, they had an interesting series of video clips on just this topic.
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I know the legal minimum is 1.6mm over the centre 3/4s but I think I remember reading that 3mm was actually a more sensible minimum.
If I had 5mm and 3mm I'd probably ignore it for another mm until it was 4 & 2 or thereabouts and then change them all or perhaps simply replace them in pairs - they're unlikely to often wear down at the same time in the future.
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The 3mm is for water displacement purposes. Anything below that is seen to be less effective at removing large water deposits.
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That was probably it. These days I'm pleased when I can remember even half a message.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Fri 26 Jul 19 at 22:48
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Slightly off topic, but a friend of mine has owned a 2003 Lexus IS for the past 14 years. She loves it and won’t change until repairs make it uneconomic. She phoned me a few days ago to say it had just passed its MOT but advisories on the rear tyres...it’s RWD.
Living at altitude up a hill, and a steep drive, she asked my tyre advice. I suggested ‘all weather’ tyres all round, but apparently the fronts have lots of tread left, so I assume it’s not advisable to fit all seasons on the rear, leaving normal tyres on the front axle
Would I be correct in that assumption ?
Maybe I should ask her for the tyre sizes and get quotes for 4 new all seasons
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Why not replace them with whatever is on there now?
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Because given her location, and access to her home during inclement winter weather oop North, if you’re going to fit new tyres it makes sense to buy those which would be most suitable for the conditions. Her annual mileage is circa 7k, she won’t be replacing the car any time soon, so IMO best get 4 new all seasons, even if the fronts have lots of tread left.
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You could get away with All-Seasons or Winters on the back only of a RWD car, but not something I'd recommend to someone else.
Related to the Original Post - the grippiest, so normally those with most tread, tyres are always supposed to go on the back, regardless of absolutely everything else.
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I always swap front to rear and vice versa when the front are wearing down on the edges - seems to even out and they last much longer overall.
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>> Related to the Original Post - the grippiest, so normally those with most tread, tyres
>> are always supposed to go on the back, regardless of absolutely everything else.
Having grippier tyres at the back is not optimal, but if there is a grippier pair and a less grippy pair then it is the least bad.
Dugong logic - assuming that you accept the balance designed in to the car by the manufacturer, and that the manufacturer has assumed equally grippy new tyres, then the way to maintain the intended balance is to have equally grippy tyres all round.
By this reasoning I always rotate wheels, wear out tyres equally, and replace in fours.
Staggered wheels are of course a bad idea unless you are happy to replace them all when the wear becomes materially unequal.
And Bobby - the general rule with 4WD is to rotate, to avoid the possibility of excessive transmission wear.
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In my experience, modern, bread & butter cars all understeer, so they go through the hedge forwards. I'd rather not see what I'm about to hit and want to go through the hedge backwards, so I fit the grippiest tyres to the front.
;>)
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I've decided to keep the tyres as they are for now and replace all four together in about a months time depending the deals around (ATS always seem to have £50 off four Michelin's).
Probably get a four-wheel alignment done at the same time as I haven't looked at that for over 10 years!
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Rotating tyres - VxFan
