Motoring Discussion > Land Rover grasses up its user. Miscellaneous
Thread Author: R.P. Replies: 87

 Land Rover grasses up its user. - R.P.
Telematics information
Land Rover telematics shows that at 12.42am, the boot opens. A single door is opened and the boot is closed before the engine is turned on. A single door is closed. At 12.43am a window is opened.

CCTV cameras from Porthdafarch Road show a White Land Rover Discovery seen travelling away from the beach at 12.45am.

Land Rover telematics shows that at 12.57am, a single door is opened.

Engine is turned off at Whall’s home. Single door is closed. Single door is opened. Single door is closed. Boot is opened. At 1.02am, the boot is closed.

Telematics do not say which door is opened/closed.


Part of a report of an ongoing murder trial locally. The Landie was reported stolen and torched when the Police got on the trail of the alleged offender, however the car had been transmitting data to Land Rover..makes you think.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - zippy
Which is why my employer strips out telematics systems from all company cars.

 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Bromptonaut
Data protection law will surely allow you to opt out of such things but no doubt most people will just accept whatever licence etc agreements they're offered.

Another thought. How does the car contact LR and report all this data?

Suppose case RP references ends with a conviction. It would be kind of ironic if user was grassed up via his own phone when it's paired with car's bluetooth.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Zero
>> Data protection law will surely allow you to opt out of such things but no
>> doubt most people will just accept whatever licence etc agreements they're offered.

YOU accept as soon as you use any of the remote functions or update the satnav data,

Been following this case has any motive been discussed yet? seems terribly random.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Robin O'Reliant
>>
>>
>> Been following this case has any motive been discussed yet? seems terribly random.
>>

I've found this very strange. Normally at the outset of a murder trial the prosecution will outline a possible motive as an important part of their case against the defendant, but so far their has been no mention of one at all. It is alleged that the defendant lured the victim out of his house by damaging the satellite dish on the building, so it does appear to be a targeted killing rather than a case of driving round looking for a random person to shoot.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - No FM2R
>>Which is why my employer strips out telematics systems from all company cars.

You just wait until the insurance savings outweigh the whiny employee considerations.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Zero
>> >>Which is why my employer strips out telematics systems from all company cars.
>>
>> You just wait until the insurance savings outweigh the whiny employee considerations.

Its probably more to do with commercial confidentiality. It would be possible (in theory) to find what customers you have.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - No FM2R
>>Its probably more to do with commercial confidentiality

I doubt it. That's rather more to do with access to information than it is data collection.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Bromptonaut
>> You just wait until the insurance savings outweigh the whiny employee considerations.

I think the issue Zippy alludes to is whiny employers......
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - sooty123
>> Which is why my employer strips out telematics systems from all company cars.
>>
>>
>>

How do they 'strip' them out?
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - R.P.
No motive mentioned in the media. Daily Post or North Wales Live has the best coverage.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - No FM2R
>>How do they 'strip' them out?

They don't.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 25 Jan 20 at 18:27
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - zippy
>>Commercial confidentiality...

Totally. I work for one of the UK's biggest banks. The policy is in the company car hand book and on the leasing company's portal.

The concern is that they could pass the data to their (huge) banking arms which at times have been direct competitors to us.

There were a few co-incidences that couldn't have been written off as luck where after we quoted on a deal, the manufacturers bank would contact the customer un-solicited looking to quote as well.

>>How do they 'strip' them out?

No idea. I guess where it is not possible, the manufacturer gets deleted from the list of available cars.

I know one user had difficulty getting his car serviced by the dealer because of the mods as the car manufacturer did not have records of its use.
Last edited by: zippy on Sat 25 Jan 20 at 18:35
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - No FM2R
>>The concern is that they could pass the data to their (huge) banking arms

When are you getting rid of your mobile phones?

>>I know one user had difficulty getting his car serviced by the dealer because of the mods as the car manufacturer did not have records of its use.

No personal offence intended, but I flat out do not believe that.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - zippy
>> >>The concern is that they could pass the data to their (huge) banking arms
>>
>> When are you getting rid of your mobile phones?

Our mobiles are all managed centrally. I know all are sent to a company for custom software before they are issued to us, yet they still come in the original manufacturers box and shrink wrapped as new.

They switch on with "This phone is owned and managed by XXXXXX Bank" then the computer misuse warning.

Some Apps don't work neither do the manufacturers updates, our own software manages all of the web traffic - i.e. they all go via works VPN. I know location services don't work reliably.

And the phone companies don't at present have banking arms in the UK.

>>
>> >>I know one user had difficulty getting his car serviced by the dealer because of
>> the mods as the car manufacturer did not have records of its use.
>>
>> No personal offence intended, but I flat out do not believe that.
>>
>>

I have dropped out of the scheme for the last few years due to tax reasons so i don't have direct experience and can only report what colleagues have reported and they were told that a warranty claim wouldn't be entertained if the system hadn't reported how the car was used.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - No FM2R
>>d they were told that a warranty claim wouldn't be entertained if the system hadn't reported how the car was used.

Not quite the same as.....

>>I know one user had difficulty getting his car serviced by the dealer because of
>> the mods as the car manufacturer did not have records of its use.

.**********
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Bromptonaut
>> Not quite the same as.....

>> >>I know one user had difficulty getting his car serviced by the dealer because of
>> >> the mods as the car manufacturer did not have records of its use.

Presumably he took the car in for a service and, as you do, asked for an item to be rectified under warranty. When the tech accessed the car's telematics the data report was abnormal or absent and staff jumped to conclusion that it had been tampered with.

No doubt it was sorted once the leasing company go involved.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Zero
>> >>The concern is that they could pass the data to their (huge) banking arms
>>
>> When are you getting rid of your mobile phones?

You can easily turn off.disable location services in mobile phones. Ok cell data is available to the telco's but only obtainable by warrant.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - tyrednemotional
>>
>> >>How do they 'strip' them out?
>>
>> No idea.
>>

..if the function(s) can't be individually disabled using manufacturer/dealer software, then I suspect removal of any built-in SIM card would probably suffice (though it might well have a few less-desirable side-effects).
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - zippy
>>Mobile phones.

Increasingly, clients are insisting mobiles are deposited at reception where they are sealed in specially made foil covered bags.

At other businesses a bag is provided with the back and camera area on the front obscured.

We don't allow mobiles in call centres at all. Staff have to leave them in lockers.

The requirement to take official ID such as a passport when visiting businesses for the first time is becoming more frequent. Businesses cards from a major UK bank just don't have the weight that they used to and of course are easily copied.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - No FM2R
>>Increasingly, clients are insisting mobiles are deposited at reception where they are sealed in specially made foil covered bags.

In case they are tracked to reception? What about in reception before you're signed in?

As for cell phones, it's all nonsense. My cell phone is authorised on Embassy / FO facilities. I am not quite sure why because as far as I can tell it is no more restricted in any way than it was before. Yet I am still not allowed on Military facilities with it.

>> camera area on the front obscured.

What utter nonsense.

About the IDs I couldn't comment. I haven't been without a Government ID of one form or another in my pocket in 30 years. It's long been part of my business.

Mostly it all makes about as much sense as not using your cell phone in a gas station.

i.e. none.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Robin O'Reliant
>>
>>
>> Mostly it all makes about as much sense as not using your cell phone in
>> a gas station.
>>
>>
>>
Petrol station if you don't mind, young man.

We are British, you know.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - zippy
>>Mobile phones at reception...

Its mainly defence contractors but also engineering and design companies. They don't want you snapping their work processes, latest designs etc. especially as we tend to access all areas.

For listed companies, I may get to look at (market) price sensitive information. The client cannot risk that being copied with out severe consequences.


Re the ID, I guess anyone could make an appointment as someone from a supplier, customer, bank etc. and in this age of fraud, impersonation and theft, people are becoming more cautious.

At head office we go through metal detectors and the computer centre has several tonnes of concrete blocks in front of them now to stop trucks being driven in to the building - its apparently a terrorist target.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Zero

>> At head office we go through metal detectors and the computer centre has several tonnes
>> of concrete blocks in front of them now to stop trucks being driven in to
>> the building - its apparently a terrorist target.

When I worked in the West End in the early to late 70's we had striped tape on certain ceilings, they indicated blast proof areas and we had glass catching curtains.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - zippy
>> When I worked in the West End in the early to late 70's we had
>> striped tape on certain ceilings, they indicated blast proof areas and we had glass catching
>> curtains.

One of my favourite visits to a client was to an oil refinery. Actually one of the first places to
have an actual ban on mobiles throughout the site.

The office block (60's or 70's) was built like a brutalist edifice with the tiniest of windows and painted lines on the floor as found in hospitals.

The long h & s talk told us that the building was one of the many safe zones on site with the building designed to survive a blast at the refinery and the lines leading to safer bunkers.

Lines around the site led to various safety bunkers from concreate pill box type affairs to half buried buildings that could hold dozens.

It had its own fire station and appliances and I must admit to being startled when I saw them departing with flashing lights and relieved when my host told me it was a drill.

Quite a place.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 26 Jan 20 at 20:42
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Kevin
Lindsey?
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - No FM2R
>>They don't want you snapping their work

So not much to do with big brother and tracking, foils bags and all that nonsense, they just don't want you photographing anything.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Kevin
As Zippy notes, some data centers are now treated as terrorist targets. No phones allowed and laptop cameras covered by security stickers. Many of them also have WiFi and GSM blocking. Access must be notified, often days in advance, by an approved manager. Passport with full face and handprint scan required for entry every day. Single person airlock doors with weight detectors. Door sequencing with timeouts. And that's even if you are accompanied everywhere by an employee or security staff. Even to the loo.

The buildings will not have any external identification and I've seen one or two that had deliberately misleading signs outside. At one in St Helens I'd driven past it half a dozen times before I called my contact and asked him where the heck it was. Turned out that I was parked outside their front gate which had a different company's name on it.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - zippy
>>The buildings will not have any external identification

True, there used to be a very big sign and now the site is anonymous. Locals will know of course.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - henry k
>> >>The buildings will not have any external identification
>>
>> True, there used to be a very big sign and now the site is anonymous. Locals will know of course.
>>
Some years ago I once visited a building on a busy road in the middle of town.
I commented to my guide that it was like a rabbit warren and difficult to navigate around and no signs on the doors.
" Exactly the plan , so if an unwanted visitor gets access then where do they go? "
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - DP
>> >>Mobile phones at reception...
>>
>> Its mainly defence contractors but also engineering and design companies. They don't want you snapping
>> their work processes, latest designs etc. especially as we tend to access all areas.
>>
>> For listed companies, I may get to look at (market) price sensitive information. The client
>> cannot risk that being copied with out severe consequences.

I remember pitching to NIS in Belgrade (big Serbian energy company majority owned by Gazprom) 5 years or so ago. Our passports and our phones were taken off us in reception, and placed into a safety deposit box on the wall behind the reception desk. Our local contact assured us this was perfectly normal, and not to worry.

That place was incredible. Vast tiled building designed with the sole aid of a set square, a dingy reception area where you interacted with the receptionist through a small window rather than across an open desk, and without any shadow of a doubt, the most intimidating security guards I've come across anywhere. All chiselled jaws, shaved heads and busted noses, and they stood by every staircase, door and lift entrance.


 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Zero

>> That place was incredible. Vast tiled building designed with the sole aid of a set
>> square, a dingy reception area where you interacted with the receptionist through a small window
>> rather than across an open desk, and without any shadow of a doubt, the most
>> intimidating security guards I've come across anywhere. All chiselled jaws, shaved heads and busted noses,
>> and they stood by every staircase, door and lift entrance.

I had to go into the US Navy in Audley Street, you were body searched on entry by an armed US marine, who then escorted me to the cipher room. The Cipher room was in fact a gigantic steel safe, complete with tumbler lock on the thick steel doors. Once inside there was of course all the kit and the operators, but fridges around the place with US beer, Ice cream, and TV screens showing live baseball. It was all very exotic in 1974.

I also had to go to RAF Dawes Hill, which was part leased to the USAF so has a US P-ex (US supermarket to you and I) Not allowed to tell you what was going on there
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - zippy
>>RAF Dawes Hill just on the hill to High Wycombe.

Been there and RAF Chicksands, RAF Upper Heyford and RAF Alconbury.


Nothing as exciting as you though I guess.

I was initially surprised at the care free attitude re belongings on the bases. Convertibles would be left roof down with wallets and valuables on clear show.

Then of course I realised, it's a closed base where everyone pretty much has to be trusted to be there.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - sooty123
>> >>Mobile phones.
>>
>> Increasingly, clients are insisting mobiles are deposited at reception where they are sealed in specially
>> made foil covered bags.

I'm not sure there's much to keeping them in foil. We do have various places you can't take them. But you just leave them in a pigeon hole type racking.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - misar
Seem to be plenty of opinions in this thread but little knowledge.

The device referred to in the OP is not an addon type tracker used by the likes of insurance companies. These things are becoming an integral part of the cars, integrated with much of the other electronics so you cannot "strip them out" and leave a functioning vehicle. Typically they will try to phone home via the mobile network each time the ignition goes off and download their latest haul of data. They are often activated by the manufacturer prior to first delivery and even the dealers cannot turn them off.

I suggest anyone interested asks Google to look for in-vehicle Telematics Control Unit (TCU).
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Zero
>> I suggest anyone interested asks Google to look for in-vehicle Telematics Control Unit (TCU).
>>

Although data sources are included in the various control ECU's and body modules, You can disable realtime collection and transmission very easily. They only have a certain buffer storage size so will overwrite old data. (unless its engine "maximum parameters", Like over rev)
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 26 Jan 20 at 20:42
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - misar
>> >> I suggest anyone interested asks Google to look for in-vehicle Telematics Control Unit (TCU).
>> >>
>>
>> You can disable realtime collection and transmission very easily.
>>
Good.
Please describe how, especially when those functions are closely integrated with consumer features such as automated emergency services calling and subscription connected services.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Bromptonaut
>> Please describe how, especially when those functions are closely integrated with consumer features such as
>> automated emergency services calling and subscription connected services.

We're talking about a company car. The company says you cannot have the subscription services.

All of these functions are governed by software and can almost certainly be turned off (and on again) by a technician with right access.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Zero
>> Please describe how, especially when those functions are closely integrated with consumer features such as
>> automated emergency services calling and subscription connected services.

You remove the sim card - Its all GSM.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 27 Jan 20 at 19:38
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - tyrednemotional
>>
>> You remove the sim card - Its all GSM.
>>

....which is what I proposed way up thread.....

I doubt that would have much practical effect on the day-to-day basic use of the vehicle (The engineers must have envisaged either removal or breakdown of the SIM, and programmed to ignore such an issue for driveability purposes).

Telematics data (or at least a subset) is likely still to be recorded and stored locally, but won't be available to anyone in "real time" (or without physical access to the vehicle).

 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Bromptonaut
>> Telematics data (or at least a subset) is likely still to be recorded and stored
>> locally, but won't be available to anyone in "real time" (or without physical access to
>> the vehicle).

I think the issue raised by Zippy involved physical access and possibility that data downloaded at a (say) Peugeot dealer might go back to Peugeot Finance and the bank that sits behind that company.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - sooty123
> I think the issue raised by Zippy involved physical access and possibility that data downloaded
>> at a (say) Peugeot dealer might go back to Peugeot Finance and the bank that
>> sits behind that company.
>>

Some effort that to figure what each car collects in terms of data and how to stop the data and then keep them serviced.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - tyrednemotional
>>
>> I think the issue raised by Zippy involved physical access and possibility that data downloaded
>> at a (say) Peugeot dealer might go back to Peugeot Finance and the bank that
>> sits behind that company.
>>

An awful lot of the data will be transient. That stored longer will likely be vehicle and engine mechanical statistics, particularly such things as maximum temperatures, revs, etc. and potentially durations of these. I've little doubt all that can be downloaded by a dealer.

Location data in particular is unlikely to be stored. It is relevant for such functions as auto emergency contact and the like, but this is a real time requirement. If the SIM is disabled, that function, and others similar, simply will not function. There is no standard GPS tracking function installed (otherwise there'd be no aftermarket opportunity). It raises an interesting question, however, and that is how does the emergency call system determine location - my bet would be via mobile mast triangulation, but I may be wrong. (A car with a factory satnav certainly has positioning capability, but the system may be turned off, or there may be no such factory-fit).

If you take the vehicle in for a service, I doubt anyone could tell you where it had been from retrieving telematics data (and the Satnav would only show what routes you'd planned, not where you'd actually been)
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Zero
Almost certainly cars that have emergency services call functions will have GPS, if not a sat nav.

As you say most data in a car is transient, data will roll-over, overwrite, the only stuff stored long term, protected, will be major event trigger data, or minimums/maximums/extremes - possibly averages

The landrover in this case was burned out, tho I see from photos they didnt make a very good job of it, so its possible stuff was recoverable from the various modules.

 Land Rover grasses up its user. - tyrednemotional
...having intrigued myself, I got my own answer from research last night.

Historically, any positioning for the proprietary emergency call systems was generally obtained via GPRS (i.e. mobile phone mast triangulation) which very strongly implies that other telematics (positioning) data would have largely been collected (or interpreted) via that method. Removal of the manufacturer-supplied sim would inhibit that.

The much newer, now mandated EU emergency call system, "eCall" uses GPS (not surprisingly from Galileo) but is explicitly flagged as being unable to be used for tracking, since the supporting module is "dormant" until it is rendered active by crash-sensors (e.g. the airbags being deployed).

>>The landrover in this case was burned out, tho I see from photos they didnt make a very good job of it, so its >>possible stuff was recoverable from the various modules.

I haven't read any of the background, so I may be off down the wrong alley, but if the vehicle was well-destroyed, then it is far more likely that data already transmitted, and still retained centrally somewhere (i.e. less transient than that held in the vehicle), would have been the source of info.

 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Bromptonaut
>> I haven't read any of the background, so I may be off down the wrong
>> alley, but if the vehicle was well-destroyed, then it is far more likely that data
>> already transmitted, and still retained centrally somewhere (i.e. less transient than that held in the
>> vehicle), would have been the source of info.

That was exactly the point. The information, right down to which doors were opened and when, was transmitted to JLR and they, presumably after a warrant, passed it on to Police.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - tyrednemotional
...and the proposal was that simply removing the manufacturers sim would inhibit it.....
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Bill Payer
>> Almost certainly cars that have emergency services call functions will have GPS, if not a
>> sat nav.
>>
Yes, they must have. The EU's eCall was first supposed to be here in 2009 but it was much delayed. I think is mandatory now on all new models as they get introduced.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - neiltoo
>> Yes, they must have. The EU's eCall was first supposed to be here in 2009
>> but it was much delayed. I think is mandatory now on all new models as
>> they get introduced.
>>

That will be useful if the EU carries on with it's intention to stop us using Galileo!
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Bromptonaut
>> We don't allow mobiles in call centres at all. Staff have to leave them in
>> lockers.

A lot of places will impose that sort of policy for productivity and discipline irrespective of any perceived security issue.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - zippy
>> A lot of places will impose that sort of policy for productivity and discipline irrespective
>> of any perceived security issue.


In the call centres it's security based. They don't want customer details recorded - name, sort code, bank account number, post code etc. A lot of information isn't seen by call centre staff, e.g. all of a secret word - only the letters requested.

We don't subcontract call centres, but I deal with companies that are subcontracted call centres and they have the same access to data that the principal does.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 26 Jan 20 at 20:42
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Bromptonaut
>> In the call centres it's security based. They don't want customer details recorded - name,
>> sort code, bank account number, post code etc. A lot of information isn't seen by
>> call centre staff, e.g. all of a secret word - only the letters requested.

Get that entirely. I currently work in a distributed call centre where people ring a central 0800 number but will speak to an adviser at any of our sites in England and Wales. No restriction on mobiles and indeed we use a phone widget in two part authentication to log on to some of our systems.

No financial details though.

In previous role my manager was involved in visits to a contract operator who might have provided an overflow service. Rules there were as you say phones in locker. Also strict adherence to a script.

She said it was a bit of an eye opener compared to the informal way we operated. I couldn't do it if I just read questions out. There's a format we follow to make sure we get information we need but take in way and at a pace the caller can handle an inject a bit of personality into it.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - sooty123
They don't want customer details recorded - name,
>> sort code, bank account number, post code etc. A lot of information isn't seen by
>> call centre staff, e.g. all of a secret word - only the letters requested.

Is there anything to stop people from just writing it down on a bit of paper?
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - zippy
>> Is there anything to stop people from just writing it down on a bit of
>> paper?

I think its more obvious if you write lots of details down on paper rather than a quick snap on the phone whilst it looks like you're looking at an app or message.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 26 Jan 20 at 20:42
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Bromptonaut
>> I think its more obvious if you write lots of details down on paper rather
>> than a quick snap on the phone whilst it looks like you're looking at an
>> app or message.

I'm constantly scribbling notes while on phone or webchat; name, postcode, date of birth, age/sex of kids, income, rent, Council Tax details etc. I suppose I could use a web form but I write faster than I type.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - sooty123
I think its more obvious if you write lots of details down on paper rather
>> than a quick snap on the phone whilst it looks like you're looking at an
>> app or message.
>>
>>

I wouldn't have necessarily have thought so. But I suppose it depends on the work environment.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Bromptonaut
>> I wouldn't have necessarily have thought so. But I suppose it depends on the work
>> environment.

Given what my manager reported on her visit to the call centre contractor and other stuff I hear I wouldn't be surprised if there are offices where paper/pens are banned. At best you have some sort of scratchpad for any manuscript notes.

Before I took early retirement some of my previous employer's units had gone down road where tasks were dome strictly per SOP and all desks were same, no customisation allowed.

I assume I could have got a dispensation for mouse and or phone for being left handed, but mercifully I never had to find out.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - sooty123
>>How do they 'strip' them out?
>>
>> No idea. I guess where it is not possible, the manufacturer gets deleted from the
>> list of available cars.
>>
>> I know one user had difficulty getting his car serviced by the dealer because of
>> the mods as the car manufacturer did not have records of its use.
>>

You have people employed or contracted to take cars apart to remove or block various capabilities? That seems a bit excessive.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Sat 25 Jan 20 at 20:55
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Zero

>> You have people employed or contracted to take cars apart to remove or block various
>> capabilities? That seems a bit excessive.

Its not hard, does not require "taking cars apart"
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - sooty123
>> Its not hard, does not require "taking cars apart"
>>

I don't know that's why I'm asking.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 26 Jan 20 at 20:43
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - zippy
>> You have people employed or contracted to take cars apart to remove or block various
>> capabilities? That seems a bit excessive.
>>

We have some very strange people working for us in some very, very, very strange roles, whose names to not appear on any employment register.

But with regards the cars they are subcontracted out.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Bromptonaut
>> But with regards the cars they are subcontracted out.

I'd assume that the recording, tracking and/or reporting function can be turned off in software.

The facility to do so may not be available on vehicles retailed to the public but if a big customer demands it........
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - VxFan
>> Which is why my employer strips out telematics systems from all company cars.

Ours had them fitted to the pool vehicles, plugged into the OBD2 socket (or ECU socket if you prefer). First thing I used to do was to accidentally "knock" it with my leg, and then plug it back in again when I finished with the pool vehicle.

A colleague had to be somewhere in a hurry one day, and I suggested he accidentally "knock" it with his leg if he was worried about it reporting home speeding, harsh braking, accelerating, etc. He replied saying that it would be a waste of time as the telematics box had a battery back up. It also reported back to the company if it had been unplugged from the vehicle.

Odd that in that time I was using the pool vehicles, I never had any comments made about my driving or "accidental" unplugging.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Duncan
>> Part of a report of an ongoing murder trial locally. The Landie was reported stolen
>> and torched when the Police got on the trail of the alleged offender, however the
>> car had been transmitting data to Land Rover..makes you think.


www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-51224606
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Zero

>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-51224606

And still no motive, I dont doubt he did it, but its a sick kiddy who just decides to go and stalk, set up, and kill someone else, a complete stranger, for no reason?
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - zippy
I can't believe that its too difficult to remove telematics from vehicles as there are numerous organisations that would not approve tracking.

I guess for example that the Prime Ministers Jaguar has security tracking but not Jaguar telematics.

Companies like Securicor would not want telematics data tracking back to depots etc. and there must be hundreds of others.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Bobby
Zippy I bet you wish you had never mentioned it!!! :)
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - zippy
>> Zippy I bet you wish you had never mentioned it!!! :)
>>

;-)
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Bromptonaut
>> And still no motive, I dont doubt he did it, but its a sick kiddy
>> who just decides to go and stalk, set up, and kill someone else, a complete
>> stranger, for no reason?

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/22/man-74-was-shot-with-crossbow-as-he-fixed-satellite-dish-court-told

As is so often case press report opening statements and will presumably cover the verdict but much less is printed on the substance of cases (unless there's 'juicy' evidence).

Defendant was questioned by police about possession of crossbows which suggests he was either known to them or reported as a suspect because of his interest in the weapons.

Reluctant to speculate on an ongoing trial but perhaps just a nut job wanting to prove something about the weapon and his skills with it.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - R.P.
A crossbow retailer provided the Police with 17 (IIRC) people who had bought a crossbow from them - Dunno if it was a routine follow up, but they visited the suspect who showed them a newly purchased 'bow (bought after the event) and said that the other 'bow had been sold to an unknown "adult" at the doorstep. He is also is alleged to have binned his mobile phone and sim for some reason (like you do)
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Lygonos
His defence will insist he was having a sexual tryst with one of his mate "who will likely deny this took place to the jury".

Lolworthy.

Not only suggesting his alleged lover would see him go down for life, but also risk several years for perjury if proven to be lying about not having an affair with the accused.

Sounds like the sort of defence used by a sociopath...

 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Lygonos
10 years ago this woman (and her partner) ended up being sent down for death by DD.

It mentions a 'black box' on the car - is that simply the OBD box?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7037100/Drink-drive-businesswoman-who-killed-couple-in-113mph-crash-jailed.html
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Bromptonaut
>> It mentions a 'black box' on the car - is that simply the OBD box?

Not really clear is it?

The Jaguar was fitted with 'black box', a device which records key features of the performance of the vehicle when it is triggered.

The recorder showed the Jaguar was travelling at 113mph - whereas other traffic had slowed to 40mph because of the standing water.


Could have been fitted as standard and either worked like an aircraft data recorder or just captured key parameters in an accident.

Or it could have been an insurance box if they were a 'thing' in 2007 when the accident actually occurred. Mostly pitched at youngsters. Report doesn't suggest the car's owner who was passenger had previous convictions but if he had maybe even at 58 the box would be offered or required.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Zero
Black box is press speak for anything electronic they don't understand. It could be anything
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Bill Payer
>> It mentions a 'black box' on the car - is that simply the OBD box?
>>
IIRC from the time it was the airbag ecu and it records speed on a loop of a few seconds until it's triggered.
Last edited by: Bill Payer on Sun 26 Jan 20 at 21:53
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Kevin
I'm pretty sure that's correct BP. IIRC an article I read many years ago stated that some manufacturer's OBDII compliant systems stored the state of a number of sensors if the airbags were triggered. Speed, brake pedal and ABS/stability control, yaw, steering angle, seat and seatbelts, etc. etc.

I think one manufacturer (possibly Renault) even recorded if a bus was in the vicinity when they deployed.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - tyrednemotional
>>
>> I think one manufacturer (possibly Renault) even recorded if a bus was in the vicinity
>> when they deployed.
>>

ISTR someone saying they'd disabled this, and with it the associated warning systems.....
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Zero

>> I think one manufacturer (possibly Renault) even recorded if a bus was in the vicinity
>> when they deployed.

Well it would have been nice if it had let me know before hand.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Duncan
>> I think one manufacturer (possibly Renault) even recorded if a bus was in the
>> vicinity when they deployed.
>>
>> Well it would have been nice if it had let me know before hand.


You are taking all the fun out of it if you do the mickey taking yourself.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Zero

>> You are taking all the fun out of it if you do the mickey taking
>> yourself.

You have to own your abusers Duncan. (I sent you back for a refund tho)
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Kevin
>Well it would have been nice if it had let me know before hand.

The warning was probably obscured by the airbags.


if (accident){
....airbags(oui, maintenant);
....enregistrer(nvram, accident);
..........if (autobus){
..........sacre_bleu(avertissement_rouge, autobus); /*peut-être beep-beep aussi*/
..........enregistrer(nvram, autobus);
..........}
}


PS. Would be nice if the site supported the code tag.
Last edited by: Kevin on Tue 28 Jan 20 at 21:18
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - tyrednemotional
Reminds me of working on Sealink's ferry reservation system back when Pontius was a pilot. It was written in assembler by CACI, originally for the SNCM (the French Mediterranean equivalent of Sealink), and bought by, and b******ised for use by Sealink.

Being in (poorly-written) assembler and commented in French didn't make it the easiest of code to enhance or maintain.

I still have nightmares about trying to find errors in a particularly contentious section, the comments for which (not a word of a lie) were headed......

l'ancien proverbe chinois dit "abandonnez l'espoir à tous ceux qui entrent ici"
Last edited by: tyrednemotional on Tue 28 Jan 20 at 21:38
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Kevin
>Being in (poorly-written) assembler and commented in French didn't make it the easiest
>of code to enhance or maintain.

I'll take that as complimenting the French rather than criticism of the coding. ;-)
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Zero
and strangely we have gone full circle and I now have a

"got in himmel"_rotes Auto achtung Bildschirm

 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Bill Payer
>> A crossbow retailer provided the Police with 17 (IIRC) people who had bought a crossbow
>> from them - Dunno if it was a routine follow up, but they visited the
>> suspect who showed them a newly purchased 'bow (bought after the event) and said that
>> the other 'bow had been sold to an unknown "adult" at the doorstep. He is
>> also is alleged to have binned his mobile phone and sim for some reason (like
>> you do)
>>
The Daily Post report says the police didn't know he'd bought the crossbow until the murder and it reads like he volunteered that he'd had another one. Could just be the way it's written though - perhaps it was obvious for some reason.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Bill Payer

>> The Daily Post report says the police didn't know he'd bought the crossbow until the
>> murder ....
>>
Should say 'the police didn't know he'd bought the crossbow after the murder'.
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - Shiny
www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/phoronix/general-discussion/1035513-is-it-possible-to-disable-the-ecall-surveillance-system

Here some manufacturer replies about deactivating eCall which I assume is the vector used by this factory installed and EU mandated malware.
Last edited by: Shiny on Sun 2 Feb 20 at 13:10
 Land Rover grasses up its user. - No FM2R
Because I intensely dislike the Nissan Murano my wife bought without asking me, I have just been out and bought a Ford Explorer. That's not the interesting bit.

Last night I was idly sitting reading the manual for a couple of bits which were not intuitive and I came across the following cautions; (paraphrased and shortened because it's a damned long set of paragraphs)

"Service data recorders are collecting and storing diagnostic information....... includes engine, throttle, steering and brake systems.

Ford Motor Company may access or share......

...agree that the diagnostic information may be used for any purpose

Other modules in your vehicle - event data recorders - are collecting and storing data in a crash or near crash event. .....may record information about the vehicle and the occupants such as;

-how various systems in your vehicle were operating
-whether or not seat belts were buckled
-how far the driver was depressing throttle or brake pedal
-speed
-steering wheel position
-vehicle location
-airbag deployment
-fuel system shut off

...may be disclosed in an emergency, with permission, pursuant to a court order, when requested by law enforcement, other Government authorities or other third parties acting with lawful authority"


and lots more.

A brave new world of motorised grasses.

Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 11 Feb 20 at 14:06
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