Motoring Discussion > A217 , do they have a clue ?? Miscellaneous
Thread Author: wotspur Replies: 64

 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - wotspur
Me and a work colleague met at Cobham service station on our way to Reigate . Came off Junc 8 , and road Southbound ,down the hill is SHUT , follow Diversion .......typically It’s not ,back On M25 to Junction 9 , and then go A24 , it is set up turn left towards London , he doesn’t know the alternatives and followed the route ,TL at the Shell garage , past Asda ,and down into Epsom and then back towards Leatherhead . Me I headed to Epsom racecourse Tl and then down to the road from Dorking to Reigate.
My trip was a good 20 miles diversion , his and many others must have been 35 miles +
Beware if you have to go to Reigate, Junction 9 till DECEMBER 2002
If only
this was advertised on the m25 Gantries , now why was that not done !
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Zero
Its been well advertised locally, all the local get off at leatherhead and go round the back
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 22 Sep 20 at 23:11
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - helicopter
I lived in Reigate for 26 years and know all the roads thereabouts.

Depends where the southbound carriageway is blocked but if it allows you down 200 yds southbound you could turn left onto Gatton Bottom and either head directly to A23 at Merstham , or turn left onto Rocky Lane and you come out onto A23 at Redhill and from there you can easily cut back across to Reigate.
If you are not allowed onto Gatton Bottom turn back to London A217 north and then right onto Babylon Lane at the first roundabout you come to and follow as far as Chipstead and there is a right hand turn ( quite difficult to spot )which takes you back down onto Gatton Bottom but very narrow in parts.

Either way will add about 15 minutes or so to your journey.
Last edited by: helicopter on Wed 23 Sep 20 at 14:54
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - wotspur
Cheers for the tip , but no the road is shut off at the roundabout , but nit advertised on the m25 gantries ,ie Reigate traffic use Junc 9 . It advertised on the Dorking to Reigate road , why cause there is zero relevance to anyone travelling on that road . The road UP TO the M25 from the railway line is open though and this is upto December
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 24 Sep 20 at 11:18
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - zippy
Used to work in Reigate in the late '90s. Hated the job. Liked and spent too much time in the Bell and the Market.
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Boxsterboy
A couple of weeks ago I had to do a Gatwick pick-up, driving from Leatherhead, at midnight on a Sunday. I knew Reigate Hill was closed but what threw me was the M23 south was closed, as was the A23! And the diversion signs stopped after the first direction. That was a challenge, with no sat-nav or sun to follow and limited knowledge of the minor roads around Gatwick!
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Bromptonaut
Don't think the A217 is a trunk road but the Highways Agency are an absolute menace for closures with no evident diversion.

The A5 was closed overnight from Towcester to Weedon for several months earlier this year. Well advertised and traffic diverted via the A43 and Northampton ring road/A45. Access possible for businesses etc.

However they also added in some weekend closures. These were much less well announced and closed not just the A5 itself but the crossroads at Fosters Booth and on the old line of the B4525 between Bugbrooke and Litchborough, messing up various local accesses.

A friend was similarly caught diverted of the A43 with her satnav sending her in ever decreasing circles
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Kevin
I have no respect whatsoever for the Highways Agency. A while ago I was on my way home down the A33 from M4 J11 to Basingstoke. It was late evening, dark and had been P'ing it down all day. About 2 miles along the dual carriageway section from J11 I came across a huge puddle covering the entire nearside lane just before the bridge over the road. Very difficult to spot until almost too late and, at a guess, about 6 inches deep along the edge of the road.
When I got home I rang the HA to report it as bally dangerous. They didn't want to know. "Sorry Sir, that's not a trunk road so it isn't our responsibility. You'll have to ring the council but they'll be closed until tomorrow morning."
"Look" says I, "If someone hits that at 70mph they're going straight into the bridge support or the Armco and there's one of your 4x4's parked doing nothing at J11!"
"In that case Sir, you should call the Police."

Onanists!
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Zero
I'd certainly transport all the HA staff responsible for the overhead information signs to a penal colony.
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - sooty123
I don't think they have anyone responsible, just some monkeys that randomly stab at all the buttons warning of fog, accidents etc.
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - helicopter
Road closures can be a real PITA even when you know all the back doubles..

Two years ago ,returning late from Croydon to Horsham , a journey of 31 miles which normally would take us around 40 minutes on M23 and A264 at that time of night we found M23 closed southbound.

No problem, we divert onto M25 at J7 and head to J8 A217 only to find the road closed both ways for roadworks in the centre of Reigate.

No problem, having lived there , we knew the little single track road running round the back of the park that would take us onto country lanes we knew well down to Horsham...except every other car trying to avoid the roadworks were trying to use the same road and we were stuck for a good half hour as cars tried to negotiate past each other..

Finally managed to get past Reigate and headed down the lanes throgh Leigh towards Newdigate..when we were faced with a diversion due to an accident in Newdigate..the diversion took us nearly into Dorking before we could go south again.

Three diversions / closures in a 30 mile journey meant 40 minute journey took nearly 2 1/2 hours.

Anybody had more diversions on a 30 mile journey ?
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - No FM2R
>>Anybody had more diversions on a 30 mile journey ?

Not me. But I do have a longer delay. When I lived in Sao Paulo it was about 20 miles to the airport. On a Sunday morning I could get to the airport in about 15 minutes to collect a guest.

However, the Marginal Tiete (the ring road) was to be avoided on a Friday afternoon at any time but I made an uncharacteristic mistake and arrived in Guarulhos about 6pm on a Friday. Not only is this a stupid time always, it happened that day there was a significant accident at a major motorway intersection.

After moving about 10 miles I eventually switched the engine off around midnight and went to sleep in the fast lane in what was, by then, a huge car park. Started moving again at around 5am after the police banged on the window and got home around 5:30am.

So 12 hours ish for 20 miles ish.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Thu 1 Oct 20 at 18:26
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - wotspur
Edge ware road to Streatham
A few weeks back down via Hyde park to Victoria station and straight over Vauxhall bridge road . But VBR was shut ,protestors at parliament , took an hour from Victoria to VBR , Had To turn right to Chelsea bridge and another hour to there ,in total 3hrs for a 15 mile journey
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Bromptonaut
>> I have no respect whatsoever for the Highways Agency. A while ago I was on
>> my way home down the A33 from M4 J11 to Basingstoke. It was late evening,
>> dark and had been P'ing it down all day.

Yesterday I was driving home after picking up the Fabia from its service. Waiting at Barnes Meadow Interchange, a big grade separated gyratory at the junction of the A45 and the A428 Bedford road, I picked up a strong smell of diesel. Quite apparent that there was a large spill three quarters of the way round the roundabout and a threat to road holding particularly for folks on two wheels.

Stopped and called the council. Usual button pressing and imprecations twice over, the second after I'd selected 1 for urgent matters, to report on line. First agent cut me off in less than five seconds because he couldn't hear me. The second seemed only able to work with postcodes. If I was reporting a pothole up a back jigger in Ashton that might have been explicable but surely these people should have a mental picture of the major roads and junctions in in the area - or the tools to find them on a map...
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - sooty123
. The second seemed only able
>> to work with postcodes. If I was reporting a pothole up a back jigger in
>> Ashton that might have been explicable but surely these people should have a mental picture
>> of the major roads and junctions in in the area - or the tools to
>> find them on a map...
>>

Neither of which are of great use if you need a postcode to report it on a computer system.

I think stuff like that is perfect for what3word.
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Bromptonaut
>> Neither of which are of great use if you need a postcode to report it
>> on a computer system.

That sort of makes my point. The postcode system was devised nearly 60 years ago to facilitate the delivery of post. If you want to find a front door, or the street outside, it's unbeatable but fundamentally the postcode is attached to buildings. It's much less good for general location finding where lat/long, the Ordnance Survey grid or similar are ideal. Not fit for purpose dealing with breakdowns or traffic incidents.

I've had the issue before with one of the Breakdown Providers. Knew exactly where I was at the junction of A64x and A64y on the outskirts of Bakewell; no she says I need a postcode. What she needed was a good grasp of English geography, a facility to search road numbers and a zoomable map. I could do that (gi us a job...)

Same a few years later when my Xantia played up while waiting time in a layby before picking a child up from a Guide/Scout camping facility.

Fundamentally it's about making sure employees have the tools and skills to do their jobs.

>> I think stuff like that is perfect for what3word.

It is if you understand it and have the data connection, GPS location etc to find the right three words. And you and the other party have a common understanding of pronunciation. A few weeks ago I was helping a couple from the Black Country claim Universal Credit by phone - the Service Centre we connected to was in Glasgow.....
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 3 Oct 20 at 14:17
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - zippy
what3words.com/

Is great for locking down to 9 square meters.

Mrs Z used it when MIL had a fall earlier in the week because the actual location wasn't recognised and apart from the seafront road, there were no other roads nearby.
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - sooty123
>> I think stuff like that is perfect for what3word.
>>
>> It is if you understand it and have the data connection, GPS location etc to
>> find the right three words. And you and the other party have a common understanding
>> of pronunciation. A few weeks ago I was helping a couple from the Black Country
>> claim Universal Credit by phone - the Service Centre we connected to was in Glasgow.....
>>
>>

Not perfect but far better than postcodes or faffing about with road numbers. Most people don't know what road number they are on unless they break down next to a road sign.

W3W doesn't need a mobile signal.

As for pronunciation, well you'd have that issue whatever your trying to convey, if it's an issue. You can't get much less than 3 words in trying to describe where you are.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Sat 3 Oct 20 at 14:46
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Bromptonaut
>> W3W doesn't need a mobile signal.

If your car stops in the middle of nowhere how do you find the 3 words?
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - sooty123
>> >> W3W doesn't need a mobile signal.
>>
>> If your car stops in the middle of nowhere how do you find the 3
>> words?
>>
Here you go

what3words.com/news/emergency/three-words-for-a-faster-emergency-response/
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Bromptonaut
>> Here you go
>>
>> what3words.com/news/emergency/three-words-for-a-faster-emergency-response/

So it needs to be downloaded in advance to a smartphone and GPS needs to be enabled and in range for it to work out what 3 words to use? I'm not condemning it or doubting it's utility but I don't think being able to say something like Fizzy Malaga Mouse would have helped yesterday. Even if I'd had it then by the time I'd stopped the three words would have been quite different.

I'll stick to my guns and say people in call centres dealing with incidents on the road should (a) know their patch and (b) be supported by software that can find locations by whatever means the caller needs.

If the caller says they're on the A859 between Balallan and Ardvourlie that'll be enough for the Isle of Lewis recovery contractor; one road two successive bits of ribbon development.
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Zero
Why do you need another app to locate your position, when you already have one built into the OS of your phone. W3W is emperors new clothes to make money.
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - No FM2R
If you have Google maps available and zoom in to the location. And then long touch the screen. It should drop a pin and give you a grid reference and, if it can, a nearby post code. I couldn't say how accurate or useful the postcode is.

Last edited by: No FM2R on Sat 3 Oct 20 at 17:47
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Crankcase

>> If you have Google maps available

Are you saying it should do that, ie suggesting it, or that it does actually do that?

Because on my Android 10 phone, the thing I'm going to have with me in a breakdown, it doesn't do that.

A long press pops up a photo, a directions button, a start button, a share button (which just generates a web address) and something I've not heard of before called a Google Plus Code, which seems to be yet another location providing short code system.

No traditional coordinates, postcodes or OS references, any of which would have been perhaps more useful.

TomTom on the phone does give you long/lat, as does the in car satnav, but the idea of reading out -52.6487696774543223, 1.239754654487581 or whatever it is over a dodgy mobile signal doesn't inspire me with confidence.
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - No FM2R
>>Are you saying it should do that, ie suggesting it, or that it does actually do that?

I am saying that it actually does that and when I just randomly tried places in rural Oxfordshire on Google maps it did so 5 out of 7 times. Of course if there is not a nearby postcode then it can't and says something like "Near village/town, County".

On my Android 10 Huawei.

Of course the other thing you can do if either there is an available cell phone number or you can persuade whoever you're talking to share one with you is to send them your location via WhatsApp. We use that a lot.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 4 Oct 20 at 16:11
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Crankcase
>>
>> On my Android 10 Huawei.
>>

Odd. I'm using my Android 10 Huawei.

I know these things are usually because I'm a bit thick so I'll re-read what you said and try again.

As to Whatsapp, I don't think I know anything about it other than hearing the name from time to time.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Sun 4 Oct 20 at 16:34
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Crankcase
Ok. Combination of being a bit thick, zoom levels and looking in the wrong place on the screen. I can now get it to show long/lat, but nothing I've tried shows a postcode.
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - No FM2R
>> Ok. Combination of being a bit thick, zoom levels and looking in the wrong place
>> on the screen. I can now get it to show long/lat, but nothing I've tried
>> shows a postcode.


I dunno. No expert myself. But this is an example of what I get; ( I think this will work)

www.dropbox.com/s/tqq982xthzd9gih/2020-10-04%2015.40.39.jpg?dl=0
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - No FM2R
However, I usually use WhatsApp.

WhatsApp is essentially a messaging service which does not rely on your SIM connection. It brings various advantages that go with it's use of the data link (WiFi or SIM).

One of the things you can do is attach your location (Live and thus updating, or just at that moment in time). The recipient of that message clicks on the link and then is shown the location on their mapping application (in my case Google Maps) and can press the "Directions" button to be taken there.

Whenever I have to pick someone up, usually but not always my daughters, the standard response is "Send me your WhatsApp location".
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - sooty123
>> Whenever I have to pick someone up, usually but not always my daughters, the standard
>> response is "Send me your WhatsApp location".

How do you do that?
>>
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 5 Oct 20 at 02:03
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - No FM2R
When typing in a WhatsApp message, to the right of the typing line there is a paperclip, press that. Then select "Location", then choose between "Current" (one time) and "Live" (updates for an hour as you move.)

Let me know if that's not clear enough.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 4 Oct 20 at 20:11
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - sooty123
>> Let me know if that's not clear enough.

That's very helpful, thanks.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 5 Oct 20 at 02:03
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - No FM2R
I find the Live Location is very comforting when one of my daughters is on the move late at night. I can see how their taxi / bus / car / whatever progresses and also notice if it stops or goes an unexpected direction.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 4 Oct 20 at 20:35
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Bromptonaut
>> I find the Live Location is very comforting when one of my daughters is on
>> the move late at night. I can see how their taxi / bus / car
>> / whatever progresses and also notice if it stops or goes an unexpected direction.

We use that if either of the 'kids' (25 and 27) or either of me/MrsB are in transit to/from home. Quite useful to know when the leave the M1; time to get a cuppa or a G&T on the go.

And when they're home in Scouseland or Flint too.
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - PeterS
I used the live location thing in WhatsApp when I drove to / from Italy in the summer. It meant my nephews could see (on Daddy’s ‘phone) my progress :)

Though they were surprised I arrrived in Tuscany an hour earlier than expected ;)
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Crankcase

>> I dunno. No expert myself. But this is an example of what I get; (
>> I think this will work)


Thanks - both helpful and odd. At least it helped me to see where on the screen the blasted thing appears.

If I drop a pin pretty well exactly where you did, yes, postcode appears.

If I drop a pin outside my old office in Cambridge (Tennis Court Road/Downing Street intersection), then nope, no postcode for me.

If I drop a pin outside my house, or anywhere (so far) in my village, which is about ten miles from Cambridge, no postcode for anything.

So whatever the Google algorithm is, it produces differing results across a pretty small area. I'd not want to rely on it.

Thanks also for the Whatsapp explanation - I learned a few things, but it's confirmed it's not really something I'd have a use for.

I know my sister was "told" by her kids that they all use it and she should too. She actually read all the terms and conditions (she's like that with with everything, and installs/runs virtually nothing) and refuses to have it, though I don't know on which details she based that decision.

My second sister is the opposite, cares nothing about any kind of security and will chuck anything anywhere without a second thought, I believe. I think she even has Facebook.

And my third sister is likely to say "what's a mobile phone, oh I can't be doing with all that technical stuff", but then she's the eldest. I don't know if she actually has a phone come to think of it (and I don't know the numbers of the other two.)



 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - sooty123
(and I don't know
>> the numbers of the other two.)
>>

Out of curiosity, how do you contact them if you don't know your sisters telephone numbers?
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Crankcase
I have the email address of one of them, though it stopped working for a while a couple of years ago. Turned out she'd changed it.

If there was anything important to say, usually about mother and her care home, I guess they talk amongst themselves.

Even the youngest is eight years older than me, so we don't have a shared childhood or much in common really.
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Zero
Carrier Pigeon, Runner, Royal Mail Coach, Semaphore Towers, Criers, all alive and doing well in the WWOC.

Last edited by: Zero on Mon 5 Oct 20 at 10:13
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - sooty123
>
>> I'll stick to my guns and say people in call centres dealing with incidents on
>> the road should (a) know their patch and (b) be supported by software that can
>> find locations by whatever means the caller needs.
>>


In an ideal world sure, but that's not going to happen. Best to help yourself as much as you can, after all it's not those in the call centre stuck in the middle of nowhere.

>> If the caller says they're on the A859 between Balallan and Ardvourlie that'll be enough
>> for the Isle of Lewis recovery contractor; one road two successive bits of ribbon development.
>>

If only all cars conked out on that road.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Sat 3 Oct 20 at 20:42
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Bromptonaut
>> In an ideal world sure, but that's not going to happen. Best to help yourself
>> as much as you can, after all it's not those in the call centre stuck
>> in the middle of nowhere.

Britannia Rescue manage with road numbers/street names. Once on the A5 round Shrewsbury, west bound, just short of named junction with another A road. Second in a layby on named street in Northampton, townbound, just past junction with another named street.
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - sooty123
I'm not sure what you're trying to say, I think it best to help yourself as much as possible and not rely on maybe/should/some do. But each to their own.


You seemed to have broken down an awful lot, must be all those French cars ;)
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 5 Oct 20 at 02:04
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Bromptonaut
>> I'm not sure what you're trying to say, I think it best to help yourself
>> as much as possible and not rely on maybe/should/some do. But each to their own.

I agree about helping yourself but.....

Being able to sort an issue on the user's terms is pretty basic customer service. My point is that is if Britannia Rescue can do it then clearly it is possible.

I can see that a lot of emergency service providers have committed to W3W. The County Council didn't suggest it when I spoke on Friday so I don't know if it would have helped.

>> You seemed to have broken down an awful lot, must be all those French cars
>> ;)

I know that's 'tic' but the two issues were four years and 50k miles apart. Both were clutch related. I suspect that the replacement fitted at 100k miles after incident 1 was faulty or badly fitted leading to the second problem.
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - wotspur
W3w , so If someone is looking for a house name in “Nine Mile Lane “ will it find it for me more accurately than my built in sat Nav or my phones “ maps “ ...I often use both systems , and rarely if ever do they agree on best/quickest route ,so often I go my own way ,which is often quicker , till I get to the last 1/2 mile
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Terry
As I understand it, W3W basically takes a conventional map reference and converts it using an algorithm to 3 words.

There is no logic to the three words used and adjacent squares have no relationship to one another - to find the location is a bit like using a telephone number look up to find the name of the caller. Unless you have access to the algorithm or data you can't do it.

There are advantages - in particular most public will find it easier to express and communicate 3 words - it is less prone to error.

However map references are almost universally understood and mapping systems (eg: Google) need to convert W3W to a set of coordinates to identify location and directions.
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - T junction
Lot of discussion about What-Three-Words here
www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?/topic/101856-emergency-services-and-what3words/ where you would think it would be quite useful, many canals out in rural areas where a post code can cover a large area.
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Manatee
About 15 years ago we came a across a cow in distress in the canal near Trent Lock. The best idea I had was the fire brigade so I called 999. I had the grid ref and lat / long from a GPS but they said they couldn't handle that and wanted the address and postcode. The only building on the relevant bank (it's very wide there) was a scout hut. On the other side I could see a pub so I gave them the postcode of that but I told them it was the wrong side so they should look on a map.

Needless to say they turned up on the wrong side. Long story short I ferried a fire crew across, then a second crew from the water rescue unit after the first had failed to rescue the cow by putting a rope round its neck and half strangling it. I eventually took them all back and waited for the RSPCA to turn up after they had got it back on land, not looking very well.

We had a team photo with all the fire fighters.

I was very surprised they couldn't cope with the map coordinates.
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - sooty123
>> .
>>
>> I was very surprised they couldn't cope with the map coordinates.
>>

Not that surprising, not that many people are taught how to read a map.
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Manatee
>> Not that surprising, not that many people are taught how to read a map.

These weren't random people - they were the ones deciding where to send the responders!
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 5 Oct 20 at 10:05
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - sooty123
>> These weren't random people - they were the ones deciding where to send the responders!


Like I said, not remotely surprising. They sit in a call centre following a script, none of which involves learning how to create 10 fig grid references or how to convert mag to grid etc.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 5 Oct 20 at 10:05
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Duncan
>> They sit in a call centre following a script,
>> none of which involves learning how to create 10 fig grid references or how to
>> convert mag to grid etc.
>>

Mag to grid - get rid.

Actually Magnetic Variation/Declination is pretty small in the UK at the moment. I have forgotten how much, but it's only one or two degrees. A person in the field would struggle to read a compass to that level of accuracy. For all practical purposes it can be ignored.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_declination

Edit

Quote
"The rate of movement of magnetic north is approx 8 minutes per year, or about half a degree every three or four years, and the current magnetic variation within the Mainland UK is approx 2 degrees west of grid north."
Last edited by: Duncan on Mon 5 Oct 20 at 14:16
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - sooty123
I remember bits and bobs of it, ie grid to mag add, mils etc. I can't say I've had to use all that sort of stuff in a fair old while.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Mon 5 Oct 20 at 15:10
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - No FM2R
>>I was very surprised they couldn't cope with the map coordinates.

Yet another unintended consequence of living in a country where education, competition and initiative are not essential for an acceptable life.
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Zero
The required service don't need to know how to read lat and long on a map, but their systems certainly should.

I've done some dog training with mountain rescue teams, now they DO need to know how to read a map. W3W is useless to them.
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Duncan
Missed the edit for the bit on magnetic variation.

This you will find fascinating.

tinyurl.com/y6yvxqbt
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Bromptonaut
>> Missed the edit for the bit on magnetic variation.
>>
>> This you will find fascinating.
>>
>> tinyurl.com/y6yvxqbt

Interesting site.

I learned about magnetic/true/grid north at school and, with emphasis on using a map and compass to navigate, whilst in the Scouts and on school camp.

One or two members of the YHA group I joined in London c1981 were experts in this stuff and I had some real life mentoring getting from Y Garn over the Glyders and down to Llyn Ogwen at Easter 83. At that time we were assuming magnetic north to be about 6/6.5 degrees west of grid and reducing very slowly.

Magnetic north 2 degrees west of grid north didn't sound right.

Checking one of my older OS Maps, 1:50,000 First Series Sheet 186 (Aldershot & Guildford) dated 1974, states magnetic north as 8 degrees west of grid north decreasing by approx one quarter degree in 8 years.

Most recent OS map in my collection is OL234, Rutland Water; different scale to the above but that makes no difference here.

Dated 2016 it shows magnetic north 2.03 degrees east of grid reducing by 11minutes per annum.

Looks as though the rate of change is increasing rapidly.

How long until the runways at LHR are 08/26?
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 5 Oct 20 at 15:07
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Duncan
>> How long until the runways at LHR are 08/26?
>>

Ah?

tinyurl.com/y4mjr2ty
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Manatee
Unless the axis of the earth's spin changes won't the runway bearings stay the same regardless of magnetic north wandering about?
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - sooty123
>> Unless the axis of the earth's spin changes won't the runway bearings stay the same
>> regardless of magnetic north wandering about?
>>
Plenty of aircraft still work on magnetic headings for navigation (amongst other things). Those are checked every so often during a compass swing.
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Kevin
>> I've done some dog training with mountain rescue teams, now they DO need to know
>> how to read a map. W3W is useless to them.
>>

Surrey Mountain Rescue ?
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Manatee

>> Surrey Mountain Rescue ?


They've got a team in Cambridgeshire.

www.pidleymountainrescue.org.uk/
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Zero
>> >> I've done some dog training with mountain rescue teams, now they DO need
>> to know
>> >> how to read a map. W3W is useless to them.
>> >>
>>
>> Surrey Mountain Rescue ?

If you include the tower, Leith hill in surrey is the highest peak in the south east of England
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Bromptonaut
I'm sure somebody in another forum I use was involved with Northamptonshire Mountain Rescue, there also often used to be car with their sticker on it in same row as me on the car park we use for work.

No significant high ground in the County but plenty of opportunity to get lost/injured on the network of paths and in the canals or rivers.

 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Zero
In all seriousness, rescue dogs (even mountain rescue dogs) and handlers come from all places in the country, and their skills are multi faceted. I have been on seminars, trained and trained with teams (a team is a dog and handler) from all over Europe, who search caves/rubble/or even abseil from helicopters in remote mountain passes across Europe.

The basic skills developed and employed by the teams are almost universal, the stamina fitness and experience of the teams of course varies by the locations they are required to work.

At 66 and overweight (me not the dog) we can't abseil out of a helicopter and traverse a trail across a mountainous ravine, we could however track and find someone who has fallen and lying out of site in several square miles of thick Surrey heathland gorse/bracken. And it's happened.

One of the best training course I went on was "Man Trailing". It instantly conjures up images of "cool hand Luke" "Rambo first blood" "the defiant ones". Never seen the dog so physically and mentally exhausted even over a shortish (less than two miles) track. We both got rather predatory and hung ho!
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 6 Oct 20 at 08:57
 A217 , do they have a clue ?? - Kevin
Just a bit of leg pulling.
When I lived in Yorkshire I used to shoot clays with a guy who volunteered with Woodhead Mountain Rescue. He had a brilliant Springer gun dog that I saw on a live game shoot where I helped out walking up the birds (I don't shoot game). Amazing how the dog could go straight to a bird up to 100yds away, even if had dropped into deep heather or bracken.
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