Never matters how much i mix 50/50 screen wash they always freeze up just like at the point today when i neded them most!!
So a question to the knowledgeable does any car have a heater element inside the washer pipe or inside the washer jet itself?
The frozen part i suspect is the jet not the pipe do yours freeze or what do you do boiling kettle on the washers? not the windscreen!!
|
>> Never matters how much i mix 50/50 screen wash they always freeze >>
50/50 works for me, try 75/25 or neat. Or buy decent concentrate.
|
Plenty of cars are equipped with heated washer jets. On my BMW you can retrofit them after buying the kit. I think some Subaru's also have heated wipers, or they heat the windscreen where the wipers sit, I can't remember.
Just pour some warm(not boiling) water over the jets, should defrost them until engine heat keeps them like that, although if you're driving in really cold conditions, they will freeze up again.
|
On my BMW you can retrofit them after buying the kit
So is there kits to buy to fit all models of cars have you a link please?
|
There used to be an accessory called, I think, a hot wash, which heated the washer fluid.
It was a heat exchanger about the size of a toilet roll inner which fitted under the bonnet in-line with a suitable heater hose.
The heater water went through the middle, the washer fluid was fed through the jacket, and came out warm at the other end.
Can't find any info on the web - it's probably long out of production.
There's this: www.autoaircondirect.co.uk/hotwash.php
It's not clear exactly what it is.
|
I can't see how a heated whatever would work, you could heat the fluid but unless you heated the supply all the way up to the water jets, it would freeze up in this weather.
Increase the amount of washer additive, like O/N sed.
|
I've found a US patent for the heat exchanger device.
There are a couple of pencil drawings on pg 2 and 3 of the pdf linked on this page:
Scroll down to the heading 'view patent images'.
www.freepatentsonline.com/5509606.html
Last edited by: Iffy on Sun 28 Nov 10 at 18:40
|
|
My 1990 Carlton had heated jets, as did the following 3 Omegas, but not my lovely 'executive' Vectras.
|
>> There used to be an accessory called, I think, a hot wash, which heated the
>> washer fluid.
>>
>> It was a heat exchanger about the size of a toilet roll inner which fitted
>> under the bonnet in-line with a suitable heater hose.
>>
>> The heater water went through the middle, the washer fluid was fed through the jacket,
>> and came out warm at the other end.
>>
I had one of these, probably in the 1970's. Good quality washer fluid is just as good, if not better as it doesn't freeze in the bottle.
|
...I had one of these, probably in the 1970's. Good quality washer fluid is just as good, if not better as it doesn't freeze in the bottle...
Agreed.
For those with an appetite for more patents and drawings, here's an electric washer fluid heater:
www.freepatentsonline.com/4508957.html
|
|
Yet another use for PTC heaters.
|
>> ...I had one of these, probably in the 1970's.>>
If I remember correctly mine had a coil of small bore tube around the tube inserted into the heater hose, and was painted red. I bet the red paint helped a lot! :-)
|
>> So is there kits to buy to fit all models of cars have you a
>> link please?
Sorry, no link, I found it in a BMW magazine, and unless you're adept it's not for the faint hearted. You'd have to find out for your particular car whether it had that option.
Here's someone who's done it!
www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/heated.html
|
>> So is there kits to buy to fit all models of cars have you a link please?
Your profile says you've got an Astra. Not sure which model, but the Vectra-C had optional heated washer nozzles. Maybe they'd retro fit. Make sure however you source the revamped ones as the original ones fitted had a potential issue with setting the car on fire.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 28 Nov 10 at 21:26
|
|
Got the vectra but it can't have them fitted or activated it's a 58 plate exclusiv.
|
>> Got the vectra but it can't have them fitted or activated it's a 58 plate exclusiv.
Surely you only need to supply a 12 volt feed to them? Find the heated rear window circuit and tap into that. Not looked, but is there a guide or how2 over on Vectra-c.com?
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 29 Nov 10 at 10:23
|
cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330496399663&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
Apparently cheaper at the dealers some £13.00 so off i go to see if the plug is fitted first, hope it is!!
|
|
Thanks bigtee. I've only owned a Vectra-C since 2004. Every year I keep meaning to fit the heated washer jets, but every year I forget. By the time I'll get around to fitting them the weather will have warmed up again. Putting the car in the garage every night helps though as the heat from the engine unthaws them ready for the journey into work the next morning.
|
>> Surely you only need to supply a 12 volt feed to them? Find the heated
>> rear window circuit and tap into that. Not looked, but is there a guide or
>> how2 over on Vectra-c.com?
So is this how they're normally activated? When you switch the heated rear screen on?
|
>> So is this how they're normally activated? When you switch the heated rear screen on?
On Vectra-C's, yes. Not sure about AN Other car manufacturers.
|
|
Might help explain how they frequently froze on the VX Omega hire car in 1996. My normal everyday car was a 10 year old Fiesta mind. And you don't manuals on hire cars! I didn't last Friday when I got a Pug 3008. I asked a few questions to confirm how the electronic parking break worked (never had one) and they didn't know the answer. But that's for another thread I'm not about to start - I know how it works (automatically!) now.
|
>> Might help explain how they frequently froze on the VX Omega hire car in 1996.
>>
Yes the Omega also has them them wired in parallel with the HRW, using a nice old fashioned easy to fix relay.
|
|
Which makes little sense then. The rear window de-mister does not need to be on that much if the car is warm. The heated windscreen nozzle/jets do!
|
Part of the "Winter pack" on VWs. I've got 'em :-)
John
|
|
My Focus had them, along with a heated windscreen, I miss the screen but not the heated washer jets.
|
Never had trouble with washer jets that are set into the bonnet heated or not, engine heat soon thaws and keeps them so....KISS.
The ones fitted to modern trucks with a yard of pipe clipped to the arms and the jets clipped to the blades fully exposed are nothing short of useless, Scandinavian trucks...bah.
I still carry a squeezy bottle full of water in the door pocket for giving a blast to the screen when needed.
|
>> I still carry a squeezy bottle full of water in the door pocket for giving
>> a blast to the screen when needed.
Trust you GB, always prepared. You weren't a scout were you? (I was) :)
|
always prepared. You weren't a scout were you? (I was) :)
>>
dib dib dib.;)
|
|
Fords with heated screens had heated jets.
|
...Fords with heated screens had heated jets...
Mine does, but I've still had the jets freeze.
Probably because I'm too mean to put a strong enough solution in the washer bottle.
I always water it down a bit, just to make it go that little bit further. :)
|
>> The ones fitted to modern trucks with a yard of pipe clipped to the arms
>> and the jets clipped to the blades fully exposed are nothing short of useless, Scandinavian
>> trucks...bah.
>>
>> I still carry a squeezy bottle full of water in the door pocket for giving
>> a blast to the screen when needed.
>>
GB, it's one of the times when a traffic jam is a positive boon; 5 minutes of queuing with the blower flat out on the screen normally de-frosts them enough to use! Agree with you, lousy design, you'd think the Swedes would come up with something better
Similarly, I always carry a bottle of Mr. Muscle window cleaner just in case; tend to use it once a week anyway to get the crap off the wiper blades.
Last edited by: Harleyman on Sun 28 Nov 10 at 20:03
|
you'd think the Swedes would come up with
>> something better
I bet the Northern European spec don't have this idiotic system, or the range shifter that freezes/seizes (always in high range) once you get near freezing point...FL10/12...buckets of hot water poured over to thaw them.
Mr Muscle?...you've got some wedge in that back pocket HM, Lidl's own for the likes of me..;-)
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Sun 28 Nov 10 at 20:09
|
Do lorry drivers still tie a rag to the door mirror mounting to keep the glass clean?
Don't think I've seen one recently.
|
>> Do lorry drivers still tie a rag to the door mirror mounting to keep the
>> glass clean?
The practice died out with the advent of heated mirrors; which incidentally don't seem to be that common on cars. Mind you, probably a waste of time given how many car drivers actually use them! ;-)
|
>> The practice died out with the advent of heated mirrors;
I was going to say it died out when modern truck drivers didn't bother looking in them any more unless they needed to inspect and adjust the latest perm/highlights/streaks/syrup.
|
...The practice died out with the advent of heated mirrors...
At the risk of appearing stupid, why?
The mirrors still get dirty in wet conditions when the temperature is well above freezing.
|
>> ...The practice died out with the advent of heated mirrors...
>> At the risk of appearing stupid, why?
Because you can still see quite well in a dirty but dry mirror - it's a lot harder to see clearly in a mirror covered in droplets all shimmying in the airflow.
All our trucks have heated mirrors and none of the drivers tie rags to them. They're a resourceful bunch so if it were needed I'm sure some of them would do it.
5 years ago I worked for an employer who favoured unheated plastic mirror lenses over heated glass ones. Their work was mainly rural therefore an awful lot of mirrors would get whacked by branches every day, and glass ones don't last long in those conditions. We all had rags tied to them though, and in winter I would stop and clean mine three or four times a day to boot.
|
...Because you can still see quite well in a dirty but dry mirror...
Makes sense, now you mention it.
|
>> >> The practice died out with the advent of heated mirrors;
>>
>> I was going to say it died out when modern truck drivers didn't bother looking
>> in them any more ...........
I find that truck drivers are much more aware than car drivers of what traffic is around them.
|
|
For the HGV 1 test,I was trained to look in ALL the mirrors(having a flat float,we had one in the middle of the cab as well) at least once every eight seconds!Still do in cars.
|
>> For the HGV 1 test,I was trained to look in ALL the mirrors at least once every
>> eight seconds!Still do in cars.
>>
Tough instructor, it was only ten seconds for me, and 20p to the coffee fund if you didn't know what the last road sign was. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 29 Nov 10 at 08:49
|
You were lucky ON, my insructor made me walk back almost a half a mile to find out what the last road sign said.
I now red every sign and know the price of eggs, potatoes etc for sale as well as high the bridge in front of me is going to be!
Pat
|
|
Heated washer jets on my Escort - after 5 minutes they have a 3" wet bcircle of melted frost around them on the bonnet. Washer fluid (I'm using neat concentrate this week) still freezes in the pipes though :(
|
Back in around 1996 I was in a Vauxhall Omega hire car. And the weather turned bad and I had to stay at a customer site late when things went wrong.... I'd kept going to the car to keep it clear and knew it had heated washer jets.
The slow drive back to Manchester had the washer jets freezing and I had to keep stopping to make sure they were kept working before they froze again. Lots of service stations visited that night.
|
Whenever it is forecast to be below freezing even during daylight hours I switch to neat screenwash in the bottle. By and large this doesn't freeze but on a long high speed run it can still cause even that to block at the jets. Despite the theory postulated by some that windchill can't possibly affect such things it just does.
Like GB I also keep a plant sprayer type thing with a solution of screenwash in the door pocket too. Saves having to stop.
|
|
I wasn't going to mention the wind chill elephant ! I suspected that's why the X1's nozzle are where they are really !
Last edited by: Pugugly on Sun 28 Nov 10 at 20:39
|
...I wasn't going to mention the wind chill elephant !...
I've had jets freeze while driving, but thaw a few minutes after stopping.
|
>> ...I wasn't going to mention the wind chill elephant !...
Nor me, got put right in no uncertain terms...been in therapy since.
|
|
Well you know what they say about theory...there are those who teach and those who do.
|
>> Like GB I also keep a plant sprayer type thing with a solution of screenwash
>> in the door pocket too. Saves having to stop.
>>
Wrap a warm Guinea pig round the nozzles
|
|
He's quite a cold guinea pig. Gave the little tyke more straw today. I'm soft like that really.
|
...Gave the little tyke more straw today...
You could have used your now redundant Zippo to set light to it - that would have warmed him up.
|
>> Gave the little tyke more straw today.
Chuck your fag in it, that should keep it warm.
(Damn, Iffy beat me to it)
Last edited by: corax on Sun 28 Nov 10 at 20:43
|
>> Despite
>> the theory postulated by some that windchill can't possibly affect such things it just does.
Windchill only applies to living things. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_chill When it's windy the moving air takes heat from your body because the air temperature is lower than your skin temperature. Once their temperature has stabilised, inanimate objects can't be any colder than the surrounding air. Heat transfer only takes place when there is a temperature difference between the object and the air ~ it's a law of physics.
The reason that washer jets freeze despite there being alcohol in the washer fluid is that after a period of lack of use the alcohol content at the outlet of the jet evaporates. The rest of the washer system can remain unfrozen.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Mon 29 Nov 10 at 07:53
|
>> Windchill only applies to living things. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_chill When it's windy the moving air takes heat
>> from your body because the air temperature is lower than your skin temperature. Once their
>> temperature has stabilised, inanimate objects can't be any colder than the surrounding air. Heat transfer
>> only takes place when there is a temperature difference between the object and the air
>> ~ it's a law of physics.
In that case, why do car radiators work?
|
>> Heat
>> transfer
>> >> only takes place when there is a temperature difference between the object and the
>> air
>> >> ~ it's a law of physics.
>>
>> In that case, why do car radiators work?
>>
The air going through the radiator is cooler than the coolant going through the radiator ~ i.e there is a temperature difference between the two mediums.
|
>> ~ it's a law of physics.
Oh OK I'll remember to mention that to my washer jets. I'm sure they'll be fine now and not affected by speed at all. Result.
:-)
|
>> Oh OK I'll remember to mention that to my washer jets. I'm sure they'll be
>> fine now and not affected by speed at all.
As I explained earlier ................ The reason that washer jets freeze despite there being alcohol in the washer fluid is that after a period of lack of use the alcohol content at the outlet of the jet evaporates. The rest of the washer system can remain unfrozen.
|
|
It could also be because there is heat transfer taking place, as in your radiator.
|
|
This was a topic of conversation today - I would imagine that they're heated on the X1 - they are secreted in the trailing edge of the bonnet lid - hopefully taking advantage of heated air coming from the scuttle venting.
|
>> Mr Muscle?...you've got some wedge in that back pocket HM, Lidl's own for the likes
>> of me..;-)
>>
BOGOF at Morrisons t'other week! ;-)
|
|
My washers probably won't work this morning, left the car outside last night and there is a foot of snow on them now. Not that I am going to try them.:-)
|
My company car has heated washer nozzles and I keep a big bottle of screenwash in the boot as I get through so much of it during the winter. I've never had a problem with the washer nozzles freezing up even at the -25C or so we reached here last winter.
What did happen though when it was really cold was that the melted snow and ice from the windscreen gathered under the windscreen wipers and instead of running off actually refroze onto the wiper rubbers into something with the consistency of granite. I guess the wind accelerated the freezing process and I kept having to stop to clean the wiper blades.
|
I dont car what the so called purists on here say
your washer jets nozzles are colder if they are in a wind stream than if they are not.
The under bonnet is warm, and when a car is stationary the heat radiates out of the bonnet and all external metal parts of the car heating up the boundary layer of the car.
When its moving, the boundary layer is cooled.
Its not wind chill, its pure physics.
|
>> I dont car what the so called purists on here say
>>
>> your washer jets nozzles are colder if they are in a wind stream than if
>> they are not.
>>
I agree, the cold air moving over the warm nozzle will act as a heatsink and cool down the nozzle; although I would think the difference in cooling effect between stationary air and moving air isn't particularly large on something with such a small area exposed.
I have had to calculate the cooling effect in the past, when working out startup times for telecomms equipment sitting at -40C in a strong wind, but there the surface volume subject to cooling is much bigger.
|
Washer pumps are weedy, the pipes are small bore, and the jets even smaller.
It only takes a tiny bit of ice to stop them working.
I've had the same experience as others, the washers freeze when driving along and thaw a few minutes after stopping.
I tend to assume it's the jets that freeze, but I suppose the blockage could be anywhere in the system.
|
Your washer jets do suffer wind chill factor, in as much as they cannot influence the temperature of the air around them.
Don't use the full-of-gloopy-bits "winter" antifreeze halfords, asda and others pedal in the big cartons. Go with the thin ones like Comma (v expensive), Skoda (expensive) and Lidl (ultra cheap) do, they've typically got "protects down to -65 / -70" on their label and you dilute them.
If you drive a VAG it invalidates your warranty to use the gloopy ones, the gloopy bits gunge up various parts of the system, commonly the 90 degree elbow inside the boot trim which pops the pipe off and floods your boot :-)
|
>> Your washer jets do suffer wind chill factor,
>>
inanimate objects by definition do not suffer "wind chill factor". See my post of a few minutes ago, below this one.
Last edited by: Suppose on Mon 29 Nov 10 at 10:06
|
>> Don't use the full-of-gloopy-bits "winter" antifreeze halfords, asda and others pedal
>> in the big cartons.
I've seen this, but never used it - I assumed it was contaminated with something, or "gone off".
>> Go with the thin ones like Comma (v expensive), Skoda (expensive) and Lidl
>> (ultra cheap)
I've got about 10L of the Lidl stuff in "easy pour" containers. It's good.
|
>> Don't use the full-of-gloopy-bits "winter" antifreeze halfords, asda and others pedal in the big cartons.
>> Go with the thin ones like Comma (v expensive), Skoda (expensive) and Lidl (ultra cheap)
>> do, they've typically got "protects down to -65 / -70" on their label and you
>> dilute them.
I use Halfords summer mix all year round, which is OK for around -4 degrees. I've never noticed gloopy bits in that, and I would be a bit dubious if I did. The jets rarely freeze up but then I'm a southern softie, not raised on Irn Bru.
|
Have Halfords not improved it yet? -4C neat is useless. It's been -5 in the garage and -9 (so far) outside. We had -15 in January. I've found some stuff that works down to -20 (or is it -30? Must read the bottle!) and I'm using a 50/50 mix.
John
|
>> Have Halfords not improved it yet? -4C neat is useless. It's been -5 in the
>> garage and -9 (so far) outside. We had -15 in January. I've found some stuff
>> that works down to -20 (or is it -30? Must read the bottle!) and I'm
>> using a 50/50 mix.
I have the blue -4 ready mix. Its been fine.
|
>> I have the blue -4 ready mix. Its been fine.
>>
The trouble with ready mix is that you are buying mainly water.
|
|
But at three for the price of two, I am not paying much for it.
|
>> But at three for the price of two, I am not paying much for it.
>>
>>
I suppose with the foul tasting water in the south east you are used to buying drinking water so why not just use that?
|
>> Have Halfords not improved it yet? -4C neat is useless. It's been -5 in the
>> garage and -9 (so far) outside. We had -15 in January. I've found some stuff
>> that works down to -20 (or is it -30? Must read the bottle!) and I'm
>> using a 50/50 mix.
Where do you live Tooslow? Like I said, it rarely gets really cold in Essex, certainly not enough to freeze the washer bottle. If it does, I'll change it and learn my lesson, at least I can see the thing under the bonnet, not inside the front wing.
|
North end of Cheshire c. I had my washer bottle freeze and burst in January. Lesson learnt. No more Halfords -4 stuff.
John
|
>> certainly not enough to freeze the washer
I'm calling foul here corax :-P
Your washer bottle's heated :-) If it's like mine, there's a wee heatshield in front of the connector plug for the level sensor but the rest of the exhaust side of the bottle will get a fair old toasting. Secondary air system too (yours is the M52 engine too i think?), nice and toasty pretty rapidly.
Ze Germans are really clever.
|
>> Your washer bottle's heated :-) If it's like mine, there's a wee heatshield in front
>> of the connector plug for the level sensor but the rest of the exhaust side
>> of the bottle will get a fair old toasting. Secondary air system too (yours is
>> the M52 engine too i think?), nice and toasty pretty rapidly.
>>
>> Ze Germans are really clever.
It's near the engine, granted, but that doesn't help when the cars been sitting all night, although you're right about the exhaust warming it up. I probably wouldn't notice if it had been frozen because I tend to leave the engine running ten minutes before I leave, to the consternation of many posters here (but it's a dead end road at the back of the house on the edge of a village and a nice area :-) ).
Secondary air system? I thought that was for emission control. You'll have to enlighten me. I know it has a secondary throttle system for the traction control- that was definitely working this morning!
So your 7 series is redundant at the moment?
|
>> Secondary air system? I thought that was for emission control.
Aye it is, it raises the exhaust temps much more rapidly from a cold start to get the cat up to temp and working sooner.
>> So your 7 series is redundant at the moment?
Well it's properly shod so i'd love to say no, but the snows getting a bit deep in our wee estate. Scared i damage the front bumper driving in that, it'd be like a snow plough.
|
The Lidl stuff costs under £5 for 5 undiluted litres and claims to work down to -50C.
|
I have yet to see this stuff, or indeed any of the other wonder bargains that you lot talk about, in my local Lidl. It's either a special Lidl Express selling only beans or you lot are having a larf.
John
|
|
My Lidl hasnt had washer fluid in at all this year.
|
This Thursday is their motor related stuff
www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/lidl_uk/hs.xsl/offerdate.htm?offerdate=15834
If they have a flexible stocking policy, then screenwash (or "antifreeze" as Lidl label it) may be in.
|
I want a shop to stock stuff so it's there when I need it. Screenwash is pretty basic stuff. I can understand that they might stock it as a seasonal item but I'm blowed if I'm going to keep going in on the off chance. I will continue to give my small, local motor accessories shop my custom. He has the goods, it's good stuff at a reasonable price and he's there when I need him.
If you happen to be in Lidl, fair enough, but who is responsible for this dippy stocking policy?
John
|
>> I want a shop to stock stuff so it's there when I need it .. I'm blowed if I'm going
>> to keep going in on the off chance.
Subscribe to their "newsletter" (& to Aldi's).
|
>> special Lidl Express selling only beans or you lot are having a larf.
To be fair, i'm shilling the stuff above, but i've never managed to bag a bottle yet :-( Tried last year.
I have a reminder set, this Thursday AM.
1 x pair of all weather mechanics overalls
3 x pairs of socks
1 x antifreeze tester
and something else, can't remember what though :-/
www.lidl.co.uk/cps/rde/xchg/SID-689AF005-2D81C734/lidl_uk/hs.xsl/offerdate.htm?offerdate=15834
|
>> I have a reminder set, this Thursday AM.
>>
>> 1 x pair of all weather mechanics overalls
>> 3 x pairs of socks
>> 1 x antifreeze tester
>> and something else, can't remember what though :-/
Overalls are too tight for my liking. Less mince pies? :-(
Socks are a size too small
The anti freeze tester is for screenwash not anti freeze
The battery charger wont charge my well and truly dead no name brand battery that came in the Golf
The beans were sold out
Bah. I knew there was a reason i never bothered with the place despite everyone else saying it was ace :-)
EDIT: and no bleepin screenwash! :-)
Last edited by: Skoda on Thu 2 Dec 10 at 14:37
|
...The battery charger wont charge my well and truly dead no name brand battery that came in the Golf...
Skoda,
Before you shoot the charger, might be worth looking into the condition of the battery.
I'm sure I read somewhere a totally discharged battery cannot be charged, whatever charger you use.
|
|
Nonsense iffy - I've "recovered" several totally discharged bike batteries over the years using Optimiser smart chargers - these are the best thing ever for overwintering vehicles.
|
...nonsense Iffy...
A quick Google gives this:
"If your battery (lead/acid) was subject to freezing temperatures while it was in a discharged state junk it and buy a new one.
"Also! A battery (even a new one) can only stand to be drained totally dead two to three times before it "will not" take a charge again."
www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/electrical-and-computer-systems/24447-how-to-revive-dead-battery/
It's only a forum, but I'm sure there's similar info out there from more authoritative sources.
|
...it's only a forum, but I'm sure there's similar info out there from more authoritative sources...
This site looks more scientific:
www.batterystuff.com/tutorial_battery.html
From bullet point eight:
"Deep cycling" an engine starting battery. Remember these batteries can't stand deep discharge."
|
|
I'm only speaking from experience....so who knows ?
|
Experience is worth nothing PU. You have to take the dumbo, multiple choice, bleeding obvious "exam" and get... a certificate. Then you're an expert. And you can boss Iffy about then. :-)
John
|
>> I've "recovered" several totally discharged bike batteries over the years using Optimiser smart chargers - these are the best thing ever for overwintering vehicles.
There is at least one smart charger on the market that needs approx 7 volts in the battery for it to recharge. I can't recall the make(s), but I replied to a post of DVD's yonks ago on the other place after he had a problem with a battery not wanting to recharge.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 2 Dec 10 at 19:01
|
|
My Halfords smart charger from about 10yrs ago has this issue... anything much less than 9v and it doesn't want to charge. I have a 12v CB transformer nearby which I use across the terminals to get charger output going. As soon as the charger is going you can take off the 12v source as it holds the voltage above critical point of its own accord.
|
|
I have two "Optimate" devices - the latest one recovered a very dud battery on my GS two winters ago - I tried the older one first no-joy, the new one did it.....dunno as I say just personal experience.
|
The one I was thinking of was an Airflow battery Condition/Charger.
btw, it was 9 volts, not 7.
www.airflow-uk.co.uk/Battery-Conditioner.html
"It will charge a battery from a minimum of 9 volts to 13.8 volts and then turn off."
|
>> I have yet to see this stuff, or indeed any of the other wonder bargains
>> that you lot talk about, in my local Lidl. It's either a special Lidl Express
>> selling only beans or you lot are having a larf.
>>
>> John
>>
No larf, I have two of them in my garage. They don't always have them though, I get a couple when the do, they soon get used.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 30 Nov 10 at 14:08
|
|
Where are these quaint shops you speak of? Can't imagine them allowing such a thing around here. Might attract common people with Fords and Nissans and the like.
|
|
Its in your local mock tudor shoppe centre.
|
I still haven't fathomed why H doesn't drive a moggie traveller.
John
|
|
Did they do them in black and white?
|
No, that's the "mock" bit.
John
|
|
I've got some wood round the back. S'pose I could glue some on the Mondy. Would "NoNails" do it do you think? Any gaps could be filled with lime mortar and dung. Might set a trend.
|
|
dont forget the horsehair and straw.
|
>> Where are these quaint shops you speak of? Can't imagine them allowing such a thing
>> around here. Might attract common people with Fords and Nissans and the like.
>>
They are often located near social housing for some reason.
|
is that modern speak for council houses?
John
|
>> is that modern speak for council houses?
>>
>> John
>>
Yes, sorry I forgot this is a PC free zone.
|
Aldi and Lidl habe shops at Catterick Garrison in North Yorkshire.
I think the squaddies and their wives who've been stationed in Germany are well-used to shopping at Aldi, if not the other one as well.
|
>> The Lidl stuff costs under £5 for 5 undiluted litres .............
Halfords own brand is £4.99.
|
and only works down to -4C. Cue new washer bottle when mine froze & burst last January. I think it was the day I parked in Northwich at about 9:30 with the temperature showing as -10 and showing -6 when I returned at about 6. I'd been outdoors all day and it certainly hadn't risen above freezing all day.
John
|
the halfords pink stuff (-15) is 5.99 for 5 litres, but you get 3 for the price of two so its £3.99 for 5 litres...
|
I think I've just paid £8.50 ish for 5 litres of Comma, works down to -26C or -9C at a 50/50 mix (odd!). "Think" because I bought a scraper too. Wife has nicked mine. So I'll suss out the pink stuff next time I'm near a Halfords.
John
|
|
The LIDL stuff is good to at least -10 diluted 1:2 with water.
|
|
My lidl hasn't had any "stuff" for 6 months or more. So not only is it not good for -10 is actually good FFA.
|
>>My lidl hasn't had any "stuff" for 6 months or more<<
It's only Autumn yet - they'll have plentiful stock for when Winter arrives.
|
|
Talking of strange seasonal offers had a flier the other day from National Tyres offering me "Late Summer Offers" valid until December 2010 !
|
|
ISTR it's a "special" for early January. Subscribe to the newsletter & it'll tell you what's on sale.
Last edited by: FotheringtonTomas on Fri 3 Dec 10 at 13:37
|
>> The Lidl stuff costs under £5 for 5 undiluted litres and claims to work down
>> to -50C.
img227.imageshack.us/i/bild2736.jpg/
Undiluted -70C
2:1 stuff:water -33C
1:1 -23C
1:2 -15C
15L of stuff good to -15C for £3.99.
|
>> img227.imageshack.us/i/bild2736.jpg/
>>
>> Undiluted -70C
How long does the alcohol/glycol take to vaporise and lose its potency?
When I bought mine last year, I thought the container was leaking when driving home, but there was no leak. The stuff is so strong that you can smell it without opening the container.
Last edited by: John H on Tue 7 Dec 10 at 17:41
|
>> >> img227.imageshack.us/i/bild2736.jpg/
>> >>
>> >> Undiluted -70C
>>
>> How long does the alcohol/glycol take to vaporise and lose its potency?
A long time in a container with a lid on, I should think. I've had some in an unopened container since last year, with no obvious loss of volume.
>> The stuff is so strong that you can smell it without opening the container.
I have not noticed that. Perhaps another container had leaked onto your one in the shop or before it got there.
|
>> Its not wind chill, its pure physics.
>>
Exactly right, Zero. Forced convection will cool things more quickly.
Some of the confusion above arises from mixing up the meaning of "forced convection" with that of "wind chill".
The first refers to a physical process
www.efunda.com/formulae/heat_transfer/convection_forced/overview_forced.cfm
The second refers to a biological process, more a "perception of cold in the mind", arising from forced convection over the skin; e.g..
"perceived cooling that a person feels due to loss of body heat as wind passes over exposed skin"
"For inanimate objects, the effect of wind chill is to reduce any warmer objects to the ambient temperature more quickly. It cannot, however, reduce the temperature of these objects below the ambient temperature, no matter how great the wind velocity. For most biological organisms, the physiological response is to maintain surface temperature in an acceptable range so as to avoid adverse effects. Thus, the attempt to maintain a given surface temperature in an environment of faster heat loss results in both the perception of lower temperatures and an actual greater heat loss
|
>> "For inanimate objects, the effect of wind chill is to reduce any warmer objects to
>> the ambient temperature more quickly. It cannot, however, reduce the temperature of these objects below
>> the ambient temperature, no matter how great the wind velocity. ...........
That's what I said ~ I hope!
|
"What did happen though when it was really cold was that the melted snow and ice from the windscreen gathered under the windscreen wipers and instead of running off actually refroze onto the wiper rubbers into something with the consistency of granite."
Bagpus you've written exactly what I was going to write. No problem with washer nozzles right into the -30s but a dreadful problem with sleet freezing on the wipers. On one journey I was stopping on a hard shoulder every 15mins to try and chisel it off. Then it's ok for a while until that one mischievous little snow flake gets under the blade - as soon as that happens and the blade lifts off and can't clear the screen - one streak starts and freezes, then another and another it rapidly deteriorates until the screen is solid with ice. I carried a de-icer trigger spray which seemed to be the easiest way to free it all up but it's so miserable faffing around in those temperatures.
Edit: A full washer bottle normally lasts all summer but in this weather the whole 8 litres can be gone in 100 miles.
Last edited by: BiggerBadderDave on Mon 29 Nov 10 at 09:57
|
|
I'm going to completely cover my washer jets with a wad of glass-fibre insulation and then tape the whole lot to the bonnet. That'll stop them freezing!
|
I think the washer design helps too.
I upgraded my washers from the old twin jet type to modern ones which have a flat exit (and so put a wide spray onto the windscreen instead of two jets). The new ones haven't froxen yet.
Working fine even in -5 without heating needed. Rear window (old design) still frozen solid.
|
If you drive fast enough the wind passing over the washer jets will warm them up.
Supersonic aircraft expand because of this. ;>)
|
Plus a little bit of E=mc2
Can't be bothered working out how to do a superscript, you know what I mean :-)
John
|
ok someone tell me how fast you need to drive for the passing air friction to defrost the washer jets.
Not sure PC Plod will take it as a valid excuse....
|
>> Can't be bothered working out how to do a superscript, you know what I mean
A quick tip shown to me by a 16 year old earlier this year:
Google for the phrase you want, then copy and paste the relevant part into your forum post, like this:
E=MC²
I use this trick when I need to use the degrees symbol :)
Last edited by: Dave_TD {P} on Mon 29 Nov 10 at 19:12
|
>> Plus a little bit of E=mc2
>>
>> Can't be bothered working out how to do a superscript, you know what I mean
You need Character Map ~ it's in System Tools. It has more than just superscript. I've copied the icon onto my desktop.
|
ALT 0178 = ²
ALT 0179 = ³
ALT 248 = °
Your washer jets cannot be below the ambient temperature, regardless of the wind speed over them. However, there are 2 factors at play on the fluid which have an impact:
1. Wet bulb temperature - this is lower than normally quoted ambient which is dry bulb temp, and chances are as the fluid evaporates the temperature will tend to the dry bulb temperature.
2. Preferential evaporation of the acohol content, raising the freezing point of the fluid.
Mine is fine in the tank and the hoses (near neat screenwash) but the nozzles are frozen - Xantia has them under the trailing edge of the bonnet where they get no heat from the engine to speak of. I'm thinking of either a hosepipe to duct warm air from the radiator, or strapping a 150 ohm resistor to them, connected across the headlight circuit.
|
...If you drive fast enough the wind passing over the washer jets will warm them up...
That'll be the little-known wind grill factor.
|
Of course when Ford built the Sierra, the washer bottle was in the wheel arches. On really cold Monday mornings at 5.30am I found it all froze sold by 5.45am.. no matter what the strength of the mix..
I never manged to reach 1750 mph so the wind heating never worked,,,
|
>>
>> Similarly, I always carry a bottle of Mr. Muscle window cleaner just in case;
....... and a fat lot of good it was this morning, frozen bloomin' solid having been in the door pocket over the weekend. >:(
Fortunately, due to the forklifts (and more so their drivers) being somewhat reluctant to cough into life this morning, by the time I was ready to leave the yard the cab was nicely warmed up and the washers defrosted, at the expense of an hour's running on tickover.
|
If the label on the screen wash describes anti freeze properties you will be OK at a 50/50 mixture. Not all screen washes are for winter use.
I'd heated nozzles on an old Golf. Worked OK but still needed a decent anti freeze screen wash to stop the pipes from freezing. I made a brass heat exchanger for my 1974 Mini screen washers but that relied on the heater hoses being hot. But yes, hot water hit the screen. Hoses are concealed nowadays so less DIY possibilities. I also used an old SU fuel pump for the washers.
|
>> .......... at the expense of an hour's
>> running on tickover.
I hope the tree-huggers don't read that!
|
|
Holts High performance screen wash -36c just tipped half the bottle in to top up to full lets see if this works in the morning.
|
|
I am using Holts High performance and it worked Sunday night at -8C (and that was 6.30pm!)
|
|
My first three (at least) cars didn't suffer from frozen washer jets ~ they didn't have windscreen washers.
|
|
Bigtee. You will now need to thaw out your nozzles with hot water and flush the stronger wash mixture through. Otherwise they will stay frozen.
|
|
I may have missed someone saying this already, but the soapy stuff (sorry, concentrate) that you can buy in VAG dealers is excellent. Touch wood, I've never had a problem with it freezing. And - amazingly considering the source - it's cheap.
Last edited by: Avant on Tue 30 Nov 10 at 17:31
|
So how come my washer fluid (and the nozzles) didn't freeze but the washer fluid did when it hit the windscreen? I assume the windscreen was a lot colder than the washer fluid.
I did intend topping up the washer fluid at the weekend - the kind souls at the garage topped the bottle to full last Friday. I doubt they added more than just water though. Doh.
|
I've been out and about in the city this afternoon, searching for club cars not booked out and checking the screenwash levels and that front and back wash/wipes are working ok.
Ran out of wash after 7 cars but I'll get some more tomorrow and continue my mission over the next few days. I think there are around 30 to check over. So far, everyone has worked ok but the C1s are prone to popping the washer pump fuse.......it's not a normal one, so I have a few on the Vitara.
I give the cars a quick look over while i'm there to check for damage, etc.
Found a fixed penalty in the glove box of one of the new Fiestas...client hoping it would go away, no doubt. Amazing how many ring up and complain that the washers don't work, but never think to top them up !
Ted
|
Well I checked out Halfords pink stuff, their premium, ready mixed, 5l, 3 for the price of 2 stuff. It's no good. It clashes with my eyes. Plus, I can't remember the words, something like "effective to" but I can remember the number; -4C. It was -5 in Halfords car park at 10:30 this morning while I was looking at the stuff and it was -10 last night.
I'll stick to my Comma stuff, good for -26C neat or -9C at 50:50. No problems so far.
John
|
...was -5 in Halfords car park at 10:30 this morning while I was looking at the stuff...
But was the pink stuff frozen?
|
My Merc has heated washer nozzles, as well as a good mix of fluid.
This morning (-5.5 C overnight) the jets worked 100%, even squirting through the couple of inches of snow on the bonnet.
|
|
No probs with the X1's (50/50 home made mix) - guess they're heated.
|
It was a bit warmer in the shop iffy!
John
|
...It was a bit warmer in the shop iffy!...
They often have it on a pallet outside the door, but I suppose it would be a bit embarrassing if the stuff froze and burst the containers.
|
>> I'll stick to my Comma stuff, good for -26C neat or -9C at 50:50. No
>> problems so far.
Crikey! Halfords concentrated is only good for -15°C neat or -6°C at 50%. Comma Xstream screenwash is good for -65°C ~ and, to boot, it has an apple fragrance!
|
it has an apple fragrance!
Cor !
|
Really? I've got the lemon flavoured stuff and I'm sure it says -4C even for that. And that's an expensive way to go.
John
|
Sorry L, I was querying the comment about the Halfords concentrate but I've looked and you're right about it.
John
|
>> Sorry L, ...........
No probs.
|
You're right L. I've just checked the bottle in the garage.
John
|
The subject heading says "only 4C" but your message says "-4C".
|
>> The subject heading says "only 4C" but your message says "-4C".
Stop being negative!
|
Agh! It's a fair cop, :-)
John
|
|
The blue screen wash which I have which is good for down to -5 deg C when undiluted was in the boot of my car. It is a bit frozen. It was cold here last night.
|
|
If you pour concentrated screenwash on top of the mixture already in the washer bottle, will it mix or will the concentrate just float on the top? I've been too diligent in keeping my washer bottle topped up so at the moment the contents are quite dilute.
|
|
Yes it will mix, but if you are ultra diligent and refill with the correct concentration it won't become diluted! Unless you're on a wind up:)
|
|
The last time I topped up my washer bottle I used neat concentrate on top of half a bottle of 50/50 dilute.
|
>> Yes it will mix, but if you are ultra diligent and refill with the correct
>> concentration it won't become diluted! Unless you're on a wind up:)
>>
I nearly always top the bottle up weekly, and because my car lives in a heated garage I haven't taken too much notice of the ambient temperatures until this week. I would say that at the moment the concentration is 10%.
|
>> I nearly always top the bottle up weekly, and because my car lives in a
>> heated garage I haven't taken too much notice of the ambient temperatures until this
How much does it cost to heat your garage?
|
>> How much does it cost to heat your garage?
I haven't a clue. The radiator is part of the central heating system. It has a thermostatic radiator valve (as do all the radiators) which is set fairly low. The garage is integral with the bungalow and is insulated to the same standard as the living quarters.
|
>> >> How much does it cost to heat your garage?
>>
>> I haven't a clue. The radiator is part of the central heating system. It has
>> a thermostatic radiator valve (as do all the radiators) which is set fairly low. The
>> garage is integral with the bungalow and is insulated to the same standard as the
>> living quarters.
>>
Mine is similar without the radiator, I use a fan heater if I am working there. I recently had an insulated garage door fitted and it has made a dramatic difference, although the garage is not heated the lowest temperature it went to last night was 4C, it was -12C outside.
|
>> I recently had an insulated garage door fitted ...........
I tried insulating mine with fibreglass, but decided that the extra weight was putting an undue strain on the electric door opener.
|
Re garage door insulation. Back in the "old country" it used to get a bit chilly sometimes. I had a garage / workshop under the house which was accessed by a wooden garage type door. The space was huge, it was the whole area of the footprint of the building. My very own "man-lab", I heated it when working in there with a portable gas heater but used to lose a lot of heat through the wide doors even when they were closed. the walls weren't so much of a problem being stone and 2.5' thick !
Anyway, back to the doors, the simple and very effective solution was to put up a curtain rail above them ( on the inside of course ) and to hang some second hand but very thick curtains from it which could be closed when working in there.
I also had a fridge, a kettle, a radio and a telephone point down there.
In the winter time, when I had the Westfield to tinker with, I rarely came out.
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Wed 8 Dec 10 at 09:58
|
|
I insulated mine with 10 cm thick slabs of polystyrene which are tied in place by wire. That and a small radiator from the central heating system keeps it really toasty.
|
...I insulated mine with 10 cm thick slabs of polystyrene...
A pal of mine bought an insulated up-and-over double garage door.
The inside is shiny white, but the texture of the insulation reminds me of rough sanded glass reinforced polyester, so-called fibre glass.
He has access to the garage from the house and tells me the new door has made a big difference.
|
>> Yes it will mix,
I thought that perhaps the lower specific gravity of concentrated screenwash, compared with that of the existing dilute mixture, would make the concentrated float on the top.
|
>> If you pour concentrated screenwash on top of the mixture already in the washer bottle,
>> will it mix or will the concentrate just float on the top? I've been too
>> diligent in keeping my washer bottle topped up so at the moment the contents are
>> quite dilute.
One could always empty out the dilute contents?
|
Washer jets frozen. - Old Navy
