Has any tramper ever been done for this? Technically it is a offence to have the car keys on you while you are drunk even if you have no intention of driving. Surely it is common sense that a person living in the vehicle has no intention of driving it just because they are sat in.
A tramper may well want four cans of beer and be perfectly fine to drive the next day but they would almost certainly be over the limit while they are drinking in their cab.
I just wondered if this ever happens.
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>> Has any tramper ever been done for this?
What is a "tramper"?
>> Technically it is a offence to have the car keys on you while you are drunk even if
>> you have no intention of driving.
Is it, by George.
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>> What is a "tramper"?
>>
A lorry driver who lives in his cab during the week.
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What Rattle means is the Old bill will do you for "being in charge" while under the influence, if they catch you next to or in your car with the keys about your person.
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Yep but I was being specific to lorry drivers or people in camper vans. If I go to into my car after I have had 8 pints then that is a completly different matter.
I really wondered if any plod has been known not to show common sense with this issue.
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>> I really wondered if any plod has been known not to show common sense with this issue.
The short answer is that they sometimes have failed to show commonsense and decency. But they must have shown them pretty often too, it seems to me.
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I think the fine part of the law comes to if the vehicle is parked in a place which can be accessed by the public. So if it is a private lorry park there shoudln't be any issues?
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Certainly no issue with campervans on camp sites. Would also have thought there should be no issue on campervan in a layby where you are in the rear (camper) part of the vehicle so similar to lorry driver in the bed section of the cab.
Sitting watching telly in the driving seat for example could be more of a problem proving no intent to drive.
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Watched a "police" programme and a drunk sleeping in the back of his van was found not to be in charge of the vehicle,neither was the man in the driving seat because he did not have the keys in his possession.
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It's got absolutely nothing to do with whether keys are in the drivers pocket or possession. That fact may add to the evidence but is not a point of law in itself. Without looking in the books I recall that the driver has to satisfy the court that he/she had no intention or likelihood of driving. (And yes, this is one of the very unusual reverse burdens of proof) In practice it makes no difference if the officer shows no common sense because it's got to get past the prosecuting authority - the CPS. The police cannot charge this offence of their own volition. Again, in practice, the CPS will be looking for substantial evidence that the driver was likely to drive. Sleeping in the cab of a lorry whilst overnighting ain't it!
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>> I recall that the driver has to satisfy the court that he/she had no intention or
>> likelihood of driving. (And yes, this is one of the very unusual reverse burdens
>> of proof)
webjcli.ncl.ac.uk/2003/issue3/cooper3.html
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I can speak from experience here:)
This is one time when the spy in the cab works for us lorry drivers. The tachograph will show the driver has started his daily rest of at least 9 hours and therefore it is assumed he will be well under the limit before he attempts to drive in the morning.
The technical term of a lorry driver for the purposes of the law, is >>
Driver = Any person who drives a vehicle, even for a short period, or who is carried in the vehicle to be available to drive
Driving = Being at the driving controls of a vehicle for the purpose of controlling it’s movement, whether it is moving or stationary with the engine running.
The last four words are the important ones.
HTH
Pat
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I'm proof that this works:)
My favourite nights in the cab were spent in the passenger seat, with a small fold up table in front of me.
The table was laid with a proper knife and fork, then a plated chicken salad prepared at a cafe during the day, was taken from my fridge. One glass of red wine was poured into a proper glass. With a TV on the dashboard and laptop in the centre console my happiness was complete.
One has to have standards, you know!
Pat
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It's in my contract of employment that no alcohol shall be carried in the cab of a company vehicle at any time. It's also classed as gross misconduct if a driver reports for duty whilst under the influence of alcohol or drugs, or becomes so whilst on duty - punishable by dismissal.
I would assert that most drivers value their jobs enough for this alone to be a deterrent.
Also, everything Pat says. :)
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Is it possible that your firm doesn't employ trampers Dave? The reason I ask is that to be a legal rest period ( at night) a driver has to be able to freely dispose of his time.
Pat
Last edited by: pda on Mon 29 Nov 10 at 19:06
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Moved to ask if a Polish lady truck driver would be a "Trampoline"? First time I've heard the word "tramper" y'see, must have missed that along the line.
Oh...and if you don't get home for two weeks does that mean you're a "Supertramp?"....
I'll be off now.
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Mon 29 Nov 10 at 19:12
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>> Is it possible that your firm doesn't employ trampers Dave?
They don't employ any true never'omes, but most of the Class 1s and 2s get two or three nights out a week, often consecutively.
When I've had nights out before, I wouldn't have felt like drinking enough to put me over the limit anyway - I used to have a sleeper cab when my children were very young and the prospect of a decent night's sleep out on the road was reward enough ;)
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I do drink a lot on saturday nights but I make sure I don't need to drive the next day. If 9 hours is the limit then truck drivers still need to be careful it would possible to still be well over the limit but that assumes they have drank a hell of a lot. I would imagine unless they have a drink problem must truck drivers would just want a couple of pints worth at the most if they are driving the next day.
I am glad to see that the law does seem to have common sense provisions in this case though.
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Can just see Pat climbing into the cab in a red strapless long dress and rigger boots !
Ted
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I know of two real drink drive examples:
1. Professional type person who was staying with friends and went to their car when he was drunk. No intention of driving and didn't (on purpose) open the driver's door. Nicked and charged. Not sure of the outcome though.
2. Someone with a van that broke down and decided that because their dad ran a breakdown truck associated with a garage to sleep in the back of the van for the night. And had a few drinks. Got woken up and arrested. Despite the van's back not having access to the drivers seat and in fact having broken down. He was banned.
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Trampers and drunk in charge of a motor vehicle - FotheringtonTomas
