Motoring Discussion > A Major Contribution To Road safety Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Robin O'Reliant Replies: 31

 A Major Contribution To Road safety - Robin O'Reliant
...Or it would have been, if they'd banned him for much longer -

www.romfordrecorder.co.uk/news/romford_teenager_s_driving_ban_lifted_so_he_can_become_a_driving_instructor_1_759643
 A Major Contribution To Road safety - rtj70
Word's fail me... that is unbelievable. Or for this country it is sadly believable and possible.
 A Major Contribution To Road safety - madf
Typical of the English Criminal Injustice System: designed to keep lawyers in business, protect the guilty and leave the innocent at their mercy.

(and in that order of importance as well)

Last edited by: madf on Wed 29 Dec 10 at 17:13
 A Major Contribution To Road safety - jc2
Surely he must be at least 21 to get an HGV license let alone become an instructor
Last edited by: jc2 on Wed 29 Dec 10 at 17:13
 A Major Contribution To Road safety - Pat
It's been brought down to 18 now but I am certainly against anyone teaching without a few years experience under their belt.

Pat
 A Major Contribution To Road safety - Injection Doc
I think the judge got sucked in on this one ! can't belive he will teach others at such a young age !
Hopefully he will have another tantrum whilst in a truck overtaking the judge !! lol
 A Major Contribution To Road safety - Dave_
>> Words fail me... that is unbelievable.

What he said.
 A Major Contribution To Road safety - SteelSpark
As much as I am for being tough on crime from a deterrent point of view (I would have been happy to see him jailed for much longer), I can understand the logic that it had little to do with his safety as a driver.

It seems that he didn't even start the road rage incident (in terms of the confrontation). If he had then perhaps you could argue that is to do with his driving ability.

If anybody is more culpable of the road rage aspect, it would seem to be have been the cyclist, perhaps he should be banned from the roads for a bit, if he can't control his temper towards bad drivers.
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Wed 29 Dec 10 at 18:33
 A Major Contribution To Road safety - Robin O'Reliant

>> If anybody is more culpable of the road rage aspect, it would seem to be
>> have been the cyclist, perhaps he should be banned from the roads for a bit,
>> if he can't control his temper towards bad drivers.
>>
I think this bit shows it was a bit more than a 50/50 incident -

" The court heard Mr Baldwin accepted during the trial he then reached through the car window and pushed Cornell-Gallard’s passenger and indicated he was willing to fight in response to the threats.

However, he instead got back on his bike and continued cycling, but was followed by Cornell-Gallardo - who hit him on the head and arm with a steering wheel lock."
 A Major Contribution To Road safety - Harleyman

>> If anybody is more culpable of the road rage aspect, it would seem to be
>> have been the cyclist, perhaps he should be banned from the roads for a bit,
>> if he can't control his temper towards bad drivers.
>>

Without wishing to irk the sensible and responsible cyclists who inhabit this forum, I'd like to see that more often; although I cetainly don't condone the car driver's response. Being a two-wheeled road user myself, I try my best to accomodate cyclists on the road when driving my lorry or car, and give them as much space as possible. However, it would not be the first time that I have suffered verbal abuse from a cyclist who seemed to believe that the road was his, and his alone.
 A Major Contribution To Road safety - Lygonos
The guy was knocked off his bike.
 A Major Contribution To Road safety - Harleyman
>> The guy was knocked off his bike.
>>

Not disputing that. It still does not entitle him to offer threats to the car driver, or attempt to assault the apparently innocent passenger.
 A Major Contribution To Road safety - Bromptonaut
>> The guy was knocked off his bike.

The press report referenced by the OP is less than clear about this:-

Vauxhall Corsa, passed very close to him - knocking him off his bike.

Annoyed the car had almost hit him, the cyclist caught up with the car as it was stopped at traffic lights and banged on the passenger window.


I'm guessing both sides were 'danders up' and, absent independent witnesses, it was a 60/40 job. As the offence charged was assault/ABH rather than a motoring offence then withdrawal of the licence, as well as a custodial sentence does seem disproportionate.

If the driving protagonist is unsuitable to be an HGV ADI then I suspect there are better mechanisms than a ban for weeding him out.
 A Major Contribution To Road safety - Robin O'Reliant
A few people here seem to have missed an important point. After the initial spat with the cyclist, which amounted to nothing more than handbags, the driver pursued him and hit him over the head and on the arm with a steering wheel lock. Even a complete retard would realise that could result in the death of his victim, and not only was a custodial sentence appropriate but there was a clear demonstration of the persons psychological unsuitability to be in charge of a motor vehicle.
 A Major Contribution To Road safety - Zero

>> a clear demonstration of the
>> persons psychological unsuitability to be in charge of a motor vehicle.

Alas, that is not a specific offence with which you can be charged with, prosecuted or banned for.
 A Major Contribution To Road safety - SteelSpark
I don't think anybody has suggested that the car driver's actions weren't over the top, I certainly would be all for him getting a longer sentence.

However, I still believe that the cyclist is the one that was more guilty of "road rage". It was him that started the confrontation with the driver (probably after some bad driving) and it was also him that first used force by pushing the passenger.

The driver, it could be argued, was reacting (no doubt over-reacting) to the confrontation and also the assault on the passenger (as he might have done if he was confronted and his friend assaulted in a pub). It was the cyclist who began a confrontation and began assaulting people, simply because he was annoyed with another road user, hence why I think his ability to deal with other road users is more in doubt than the driver's.



 A Major Contribution To Road safety - Fursty Ferret
Having just experienced a road rage incident* today, my view is that if a minor incident in a car leads to a violent reaction, then that person is clearly unsuitable for any professional driving position.


* Tailgated by a van while passing slower traffic in the inside two lanes, went to pull in to the middle lane so he could pass (and in fact braked a little so I could fit into the gap) when a car pulled out from lane one, forcing me to go back into lane 3. So the van driver sees me indicate left, brake, and then swerve back in front of him.

Cue the worst driving I've ever seen, including much swerving around the road, undertaking and stamping on the brakes (from 70ish down to 30mph on the M60), and finally following me off the motorway, leaping out at the traffic lights, and threatening to kick my head in.

Not enormously bothered by it (which surprised me), but he will be, as I called the number written on the van which is for a large civil engineering firm using the voice dial on the phone. What he doesn't realise is that his string of cursing and blinding and threats has been left on the company answering machine along with his van's registration number. :-)

I'm inclined to think he had issues of his own, as his partner was screaming at him to get back into the van. Also mentioned this on the phone in case their insurance doesn't cover personal use of the vehicles... Looking forward to the call back in the new year.

With any luck this might be an instant dismissal for gross misconduct. Just a shame it was an answering machine and not the MD. Though I suppose it's possible it was the MD in the van!!
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 26 Jul 11 at 10:25
 A Major Contribution To Road safety - MD
>> With any luck this might be an instant dismissal for gross misconduct. Just a shame
>> it was an answering machine and not the MD. Though I suppose it's possible it
>> was the MD in the van!!
>>
I was NOT in the van.
 A Major Contribution To Road safety - Zero
We know that, no way would your clapped out old van be fast enough to tailgate anyone.
 A Major Contribution To Road safety - Runfer D'Hills
..and even if it was he'd only lose it on a bend on a trailing throttle...




Only kidding Martin............

:-)
 A Major Contribution To Road safety - MD
Hmm. You two may have been reading my mail (again). Called out to a job tonight. No water for 5 days she says. I get there down a private lane and when I say 'down' I mean DOWN with a 90 deg bend in the middle. Part sort the job for tonight (late) and plan to return in the morning. However leaving didn't seem to be an option as I couldn't get up the lane for leaves and mud. I had 2 attempts and the smell of rubber now pervades. Call a mate who has been out for a munch with his missus and he can't arrive for a while. I wait and then decide to have one last attempt. I back up along the muddy and still icy flat bit! Give it beans and dump the clutch (sounds good) hit the slippy bit (grab) second and just crawl up the cliff (hill), miss the ditch on the right of the bend and emerge out of the hell hole. Get home for burnt dinner and erin asks, 'How did it go?' You don't want to know the rest. Glad she was insured....::))
 A Major Contribution To Road safety - FotheringtonTomas
That's bad.

"The judge said Mr Baldwin was cycling along a road when Cornell-Gallardo, driving a Vauxhall Corsa, passed very close to him - knocking him off his bike."

(snip)

"However, he instead got back on his bike and continued cycling, but was followed by Cornell-Gallardo - who hit him on the head and arm with a steering wheel lock."

I disagree with the "overturning of the sentence". There's one part - making the cyclist fall off, and failing to stop - and another - pursuing the man and assaulting him.

The cyclist does not come out of this smelling of roses, either.
 A Major Contribution To Road safety - SteelSpark
>> I disagree with the "overturning of the sentence". There's one part - making the cyclist
>> fall off, and failing to stop - and another - pursuing the man and assaulting
>> him.

I suspect that there is very little concrete evidence of a driving offence, rather it is just that is what the cyclist claims caused him to approach the car and bang on the window.

I still reckon that what the driver did, was not related to driving, rather it was in response to the confrontation and pushing from the cyclist. The cyclist's actions (at least the banging on the window and the shouting) were, however, in response to another's driving.

It might be that the courts should take the view that anybody who seriously assaults someone, in response to such a confrontation and assault (the pushing), isn't fit to be behind the wheel of the car. That would mean though, that a punch-up in a pub could well lead to people losing their driving licences.
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Thu 30 Dec 10 at 00:03
 A Major Contribution To Road safety - Cliff Pope
Hitting someone over the head with a steering wheel lock is no disbarment from pursuing a career as a driving instructor.

Are there in fact any careers for which such action would be considered unsuitable?
 A Major Contribution To Road safety - BiggerBadderDave
Brain surgeon.
 A Major Contribution To Road safety - Cliff Pope
>> Brain surgeon.
>>

Strangely enough, I can imagine that being one of the safer options.

Supposing this lad gets a grip on himself, settles down, studies hard, and gets an offer of a place as a medical student. Then he goes back to the beak, armed with testimonials, and pleads to be released from prison so that he can pursue his intended career as a surgeon.

The judge is momentarily concerned about the possibility of road-rage being a problem, but decides that brain surgery probably offers little provocation, compared with, for example, driver instruction.
 A Major Contribution To Road safety - madf
>> Hitting someone over the head with a steering wheel lock is no disbarment from pursuing
>> a career as a driving instructor.
>>


Indeed, it may be considered an ideal way to knock some knowledge into a slow learner...
 A Major Contribution To Road safety - Robin O'Reliant
>> Hitting someone over the head with a steering wheel lock is no disbarment from pursuing
>> a career as a driving instructor.
>>
It certainly would be. Applicants have to undergo an enhanced CRB check as do existing ADIs when their four year registration comes up for renewal. Unspent convictions for serious offences would mean a refusal from the DSA, and even those that are spent would be looked at very carefully.

A road rage type conviction would be a major problem, unless it was in the dim and distant past and your record since was whiter than white. Having said that, I'm not sure if LGV trainers have to be registered yet. They never used to be though legislation was in the offing a few years back.
Last edited by: Robin Regal on Thu 30 Dec 10 at 14:51
 A Major Contribution To Road safety - Pat
It's not arrived yet RR, but they certainly should get it sorted out.

Pat
 A Major Contribution To Road safety - Iffy
I think the driving ban is a bit of a red herring.

This lad is doing his first stretch - 15 months - and doesn't like it, so he appeals.

The result means he stays in jail for the same length of time, but can pursue the career he's just invented for himself a little earlier.

Even appeal court judges have a sense of humour, or at the very least they saw him coming.



 A Major Contribution To Road safety - MD
>> Even appeal court judges have a sense of humour, or at the very least they saw him coming.
>>
He wouldn't be even doing that if I had my way. Snip!
 A Major Contribution To Road safety - Bromptonaut
>> I think the driving ban is a bit of a red herring.
>>

>> Even appeal court judges have a sense of humour, or at the very least they
>> saw him coming.


Spot on Iffy.

Incidentally. I meet an appeal court judge on a fairly regular basis and he has a very keen/dry SOH!!
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