| Motoring Discussion > Fuel Price Petition | Miscellaneous |
| Thread Author: Pat | Replies: 88 |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 04:40
Fuel Price Petition - Pat
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tinyurl.com/4qlhsfh We, as a lorry drivers association, are being asked to support this. I would appreciate your views on it as well please. Here is the link www.fairfueluk.com/ Pat |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 07:54
Fuel Price Petition - Hard Cheese
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Quote: "Militant truckers will be warned that they must turn their backs on blockades if they want the support of the mainstream road haulage organisations." ... and if they want the support of the average motorist too! I will support any petitions etc though NOT blockades etc. I am however concerned that in the current mire the last lot got us into, if fuel duty etc is reduced the gov will simply have to squeeze us elsewhere. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 10:46
Fuel Price Petition - Badwolf
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>> I will support any petitions etc though NOT blockades etc. I would certainly support blockades. Petitions etc are all very well and can demonstrate a strength of feeling but direct action demonstrates that strength even more effectively. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 11:00
Fuel Price Petition - DP
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>> I would certainly support blockades. Petitions etc are all very well and can demonstrate a >> strength of feeling but direct action demonstrates that strength even more effectively. Me too. The government can (and often do) ignore petitions. They can't ignore the country running out of fuel. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 11:07
Fuel Price Petition - Fenlander
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>>>direct action demonstrates that strength even more effectively. If the strong action we had last time was so effective why are the fuel prices so high again? I think there are so many people quietly hurting across so many areas due to the *recession* I'm uncomfortable with any one sector trying to make their case THE case. Another 200+ jobs going near us due to streamlining, folks carring huge credit card debt in the hope it will all get better soon, most areas of the NHS being squeezed, tuition fees issues/job prospects for our kids, first time buyers with not enough deposit to buy a house etc etc. I just can't choose which bandwagon to back! |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 11:14
Fuel Price Petition - Badwolf
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| An entirely fair point, Fenlander. Hadn't thought of it like that. However, the price of fuel affects every single person in the country whether they drive or not. Whether they shop at a supermarket, catch a bus, use taxis, or shop online they will in some way be paying more due to the huge costs of fuel. Everybody would benefit from lower fuel costs though, as an earlier poster rightly says, the Government would find some other way of getting the money off us. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 11:30
Fuel Price Petition - Hard Cheese
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>>but direct action demonstrates that strength even more effectively.>> >> Me too. The government can (and often do) ignore petitions. They can't ignore the country running out of fuel. >> But what does it achieve? All it does is burden the country further with cost, restricts trade and further blights the econony hence jeapourdising jobs. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 11:37
Fuel Price Petition - Fenlander
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>>>However, the price of fuel affects every single person in the country whether they drive or not. Very true... however my *however* is that I've long held the view that journeys could be cut across the board with a culture change. Folks say... I have to commute 60mls as I can't get a local job to pay as much as the one I have... well take a local job on £50K not the £60K you're travelling for. Half a dozen different parcel firms drive our road daily with big vans all virtually empty. Full size buses cruise about here all day with three folks on them. Contracting electricians from London thrash up the M11 or A1 to work in Cambridgeshire... electricians from Cambs thrash down the same roads to work in London. On the Stobbart programme the other night there was a lorry risking all the issues involved with runing on snow/ice, and possibly taking advantage of the emergency drivers hours extension, to do what... to get Xmas trees from the north of Scotland to some southern counties Homebase! Some priority. We are as bad doing 40mls a day choosing to take our girls to a different school to their catchment one. We all have more choice in most things in life than we ever did... but it comes at the price of transport costs. Finally I think fuel costs are at least one area we can manage ourselves anyway... driving slower, buying a more economical car, cutting out low priority trips, getting lifts and so on. With many other areas I mentioned we have absolutely no control over the things that effect us. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 12:29
Fuel Price Petition - Injection Doc
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I'm up for whatever it takes now ! enough is enough. I cut all my driving back as much as possible 3 years ago and don't make any journeys for the sake of it. Living in a rural area the public transport system does not work. WE are having the michael taken out of us now and fuel prices will continue to rise all the time we keep paying it! The money everyone is spending on fuel will prevent that money being spent in the local economey and I reckon you will see the whole economey unbalance again this year big time. Its funny how the goverment dont was us to have pay rises etc to reduce inflation but are quite happy to let fuel prices spiral out of control. We should get more like the French and object to serious matters. Poll tax riots worked years ago with people power! time again now to take a stance.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 17 Jan 11 at 01:14
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Thu 13 Jan 11 12:34
Fuel Price Petition - Crankcase
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There's certainly going to be at least some serious civil unrest. I walked past Vera Lynn's house the other day and heard her gargling. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 12:37
Fuel Price Petition - tyro
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| I agree with Cheddar. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 12:40
Fuel Price Petition - Old Navy
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Isn't the outfit (union?) who screwed up the British Airways strike about to do the same for tanker drivers ?
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 13 Jan 11 at 12:40
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Thu 13 Jan 11 12:40
Fuel Price Petition - Pat
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Thanks Guys, keep the feedback coming. I need to know your reactions to help with a decision as to whether the PDA should support this action as a body or not. The RHA and FTA originally supported it until there was a whisper of blockades and now seem to be backing off, but that's par for the couse. They always manage to stand with a leg either side of the fence. Pat |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 13:00
Fuel Price Petition - Iffy
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...I need to know your reactions to help with a decision as to whether the PDA should support this action as a body or not... Leaving the fuel issue aside, is the PDA content to support this group on an ethical level? For example, I might want to ban the bomb, but I wouldn't want to support a ban the bomb campaign group who were trying to achieve the aim by illegal means. This fuel protest group is new, so it's difficult to weigh up what they are about, but I see one of the main guys is a haulier. Is he known by the PDA and someone with whom you are comfortable? The last major protest was run by a farmer who lived not so far from Iffy Towers. Strange guy. I'll say no more. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 13:12
Fuel Price Petition - Bellboy
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| i blame david brent as he is paying $98 a barrel |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 13:21
Fuel Price Petition - Old Navy
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| I believe that laws were introduced after the last fuel protest to protect supplies. I don't know how these will be enforced but there may be some heavy handed policing or military support to maintain essential supplies. I would check the legality of any action the PDA may get involved in. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 13:45
Fuel Price Petition - tyro
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Let me expand a bit on what Cheddar wrote ("I am however concerned that in the current mire the last lot got us into, if fuel duty etc is reduced the gov will simply have to squeeze us elsewhere.") What are the options? If we are calling for lower fuel duty, where do we want to see the squeeze? Higher VAT? Higher Income Tax? Cuts in government spending? A bigger budget deficit? Any of those options will bring complaints and pain. My own feeling is that a bigger budget deficit would be irresponsible, and I can't see how higher VAT or Income Tax is any better than higher fuel duty. And if I am serious about cuts in government spending, will I be prepared to back that up by taking a public stand against the unions and their protests against cuts in jobs and services? If the British people took to the streets to call for the government to ignore the unions, and demand more cuts in public spending, then there might be some point in action to support cuts in fuel duty - but otherwise, protesting against fuel duty increases just sounds like a bunch a children who want to have their cake and eat it too. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 13:52
Fuel Price Petition - Badwolf
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Fenlander, you make some very good and very valid points indeed and I agree wholeheartedly with you. However (again!), I do feel that we cannot go on much longer just accepting all that our leaders have to throw at us. Moaning about it in the pub (or on here!), writing an outraged letter to your MP, or signing a petition are all very good ways to protest. But they are also very British ways to protest and, ultimately, have no effect. I think that the French have it right - mass protests at anything the Government does that they don't like, though I wouldn't go as far as the mass riots seen recently in Paris and other cities. I do think, though, that some sort of direct action is needed and, whilst it would probably inconvenience me should fuel be made scarce, I would support such action and be happy that our masters could see that we were far from pleased about the fuel situation. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 14:02
Fuel Price Petition - hobby
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Is it working in France? I thought that they are still pushing on with their reforms and cut backs... I think we've seen the French style tactics in use at the recent student riots and general reaction to them has been negative... and hasn't done anything to change things either... We had a mass demo against the Iraq war, fat lot of good that did... Once they are in we just have to hold on tight and hope they don't do anything drastic... rather negative, I know, but I can't see any alternative that would actually change things in the long run... Best thing we did last year was not to vote one party in power, at least there's some chance the wilder ideas won't get through... Last edited by: hobby on Thu 13 Jan 11 at 14:03
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Thu 13 Jan 11 14:02
Fuel Price Petition - TheManWithNoName
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I agree that a protest march creates a better visual impact which gets good media attention more than a petition or a strongly worded letter in the Telegraph. That said, it must remain peaceful otherwise the cause is lost and sympathy is lost too. I'd like to protest about the increase in home energy costs and the massive profits made by the main suppliers. How and where to I protest? |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 14:09
Fuel Price Petition - Badwolf
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| I'm not saying that a mass (peaceful) protest would work - it very probably wouldn't. However, it has to be better than just quietly whingeing about it. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 14:12
Fuel Price Petition - tyro
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"I'd like to protest about the increase in home energy costs and the massive profits made by the main suppliers. How and where to I protest?" Don't protest. Invest in them and get a share of their massive profits. And don't be surprised if their profits turn out to be less massive than you thought. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 15:36
Fuel Price Petition - Injection Doc
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if everyone stopped driving their cars together ! even if it mean't not going to work ! thats one effective way of protesting. Oil companies on their knees, goverment with less tax coming in ! Its time to take a stance. If enogh people start to protest instead of just accepting everything thats thrown at us we may stand a chance. To many people just sit back and say "whatever" and thats why we pay so much, the Poll tax demo's worked in the end. I can remember my house rates being £110 a year then the poll tax came in and suddenly it was £1100 a year where do you suddenly get the money from ! & then after poll tax I seem to remember council tax was at the time about 6-700 so there was a compromise. Fuel ought to be around £1.00 ltr and that I would say was fair game. Dont bother writing to a local MP , waste of time , they are tarred with the same brush ! I just wrote to mine over an issue of total waste of tax payers money and he passed the job to someone else who then wrote to someone else! who then wrote back to a third person who then wrote back to me & totally missed the point & the MP belived what he was advised by someone else even though they were wrong! which sums up the incompetence of the lot of them & the failure to reconise the real world. I guess the only thing is now they can't fiddle their expenses may be fuel may just start to effect their wallet, although I expect they find away around that as well. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 15:41
Fuel Price Petition - RattleandSmoke
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I love the spirit of protest but I can't help feeling this will end up with Pat in jail or something. It seems the governments have made protesting ilegal. I have stopped worrying about money though, who knows what will happen and if the worst comes to the worse I can always put a gas heater in the lockup and sleep in there :p. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 15:46
Fuel Price Petition - Bigtee
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I have not read yet were trucks are getting targetted for the fuel by syphoning the tanks as this was the case other year when they went up but it will be coming as desperate motorists or con men cash in. Im all in favour but it takes a uk demo not 50 fed up drivers to slow down the m1 on a monday morning. Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 17 Jan 11 at 01:13
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Thu 13 Jan 11 15:49
Fuel Price Petition - RattleandSmoke
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That is the problem, if 1 million joined the protest it might have an impact. You only need to look at the student protests, 10000s protesting but it didn't make any impact at all. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 20:56
Fuel Price Petition - Injection Doc
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But the poll tax petition did because enough people kicked off about it and didn't give up. Solidarity rules |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 21:03
Fuel Price Petition - tyro
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"But the poll tax petition did because enough people kicked off about it and didn't give up." Politicians usually have a fairly good idea of whether petitions and protests will turn into lost votes and lost seats. The government strongly suspected that there was little, if anything, to be gained politically by giving the protesting students what they wanted. With the poll tax, the government was very worried that the poll tax was going to cost them votes and seats. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 21:10
Fuel Price Petition - -
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I have grave reservations about officially supporting this, a peaceful protest can get out of hand for a variety of reasons. There is no comparison with France, our police will if sanctioned by the govt of the day deal in whatever way they want with something so important, they will not deal lightly as they did with the students. Who knows where this could lead, if people get injured or worse, then any association such as the one in question would be held at least partially responsible. There will at some point be civil unrest on a massive scale, it's only a matter of time, of that i'm convinced. Things haven't got bad yet, interest rates will soar at some point in the not too distant future, then we'll start to see bad times, so far it's only been a taster, and then it will kick off IMO. The time is not yet, be careful Pat, and remember the public still despises truckers. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 21:14
Fuel Price Petition - Iffy
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...and remember the public still despises truckers.... gb, I was rubbing along with your post quite well until those last few words. That is utter tosh. Apologies in advance if you were being ironic. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 21:19
Fuel Price Petition - Runfer D'Hills
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Of course I've no statistical evidence to back this up but it is my distinct personal impression that the current high price of fuel has done little to reduce traffic volumes. This differs from my (again personal) view that traffic volumes did reduce last time prices were high. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 21:25
Fuel Price Petition - -
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>> That is utter tosh. It's really not Iffy, lurk on any forum whether connected to motoring or not, a posting about something a truck drivers is supposed to have done crops up. Dozens of bile filled posts follow, the usual blinkered stereotype views (and many just ones too) that could have been written 30 years ago, not one single post will go up defending or pacifying...you might find a truck driver then posts to reply to the criticism and off it goes again. I'm the first one to condemn idiot truck jockeys and have done so many times, they get us all a bad name and it's always been the case. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 21:28
Fuel Price Petition - Iffy
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...It's really not Iffy... I find it hard to believe the amiable old British public despises anybody. Maybe they despise child molesters, thieving MPs and bonus-bloated bankers. But truck drivers just don't appear on the radar. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 21:45
Fuel Price Petition - Harleyman
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> >> But truck drivers just don't appear on the radar. >> Unfortunately Iffy, when they do (which is more often than you think) they're either in the way, taking half an hour to overtake,tailgating, frightening old ladies, driving too slowly/fast/close (delete as appropriate) killing prostitutes, sitting on their butts in transport cafes and eating Yorkie bars. Hardly a positive public perception, and unfortunately one which is rather difficult for the majority to disprove due to the antics of a few. I'm not in favour of a blockade, but perhaps a work to rule. That means 40 mph on single carriageways, breaks taken properly, every defect however minor rectified before leaving depot, etc. I predict that if every truck driver followed this, the UK would stop within a week. Unfortunately it will never happen; for every driver who'd be willing to conform, there'd be two more (one of them not a UK national) who'd do the job flat out for twenty quid less. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 21:18
Fuel Price Petition - Old Navy
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>> There is no comparison with France, our police will if sanctioned by the govt of >> the day deal in whatever way they want with something so important, they will not >> deal lightly as they did with the students. >> Wise words. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 21:19
Fuel Price Petition - Zero
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>> >> There is no comparison with France, No the French security services wil get a lot more violent. People could get shot. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 21:23
Fuel Price Petition - Iffy
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...No the French security services wil get a lot more violent. People could get shot... There must be lots of coppers who are more than willing crack a few heads, but are now very wary of appearing on YouTube. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 21:25
Fuel Price Petition - Zero
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| the french censor their internet. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 21:35
Fuel Price Petition - Old Navy
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| I was involved in the planning for the armed forces to be used in the "Aid to the civil power" role. If or when, things get serious and fuel supplies were disrupted to the point of stopping food distribution for example, the rules would change dramatically, the police would be the least of your worries. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 21:37
Fuel Price Petition - Iffy
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...stopping food distribution...the police would be the least of your worries... Too right, where's me next pie coming from? |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 21:39
Fuel Price Petition - Zero
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| If food supplies are in danger, blockaders would have the great British public to deal with. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 21:43
Fuel Price Petition - Old Navy
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Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 13 Jan 11 at 21:45
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Thu 13 Jan 11 21:45
Fuel Price Petition - Zero
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It wont be needed, we would be breaking up the fuel blockaders before the army got there. Anyway, I have some bad news for you, there are no military bases that have food storage depots any more. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 21:49
Fuel Price Petition - Iffy
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...we would be breaking up the fuel blockaders before the army got there... I would be standing foursquare with Zeddo on this one. Not going to let a bunch of militants interfere with the supply of comestibles to Iffy Towers. There are some things up with a gent just cannot put. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 21:53
Fuel Price Petition - Old Navy
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| It doesn't matter if you are a "good" or "bad" rioter in the grand scheme of crowd control. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 21:57
Fuel Price Petition - -
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The blockade's already in trouble and it hasn't happened yet, Tommy spirit's gorn. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 21:59
Fuel Price Petition - Zero
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| We cant riot properly in this country. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 22:01
Fuel Price Petition - Iffy
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...We cant riot properly in this country... We used to. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterloo_Massacre |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 22:06
Fuel Price Petition - Zero
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>> ...We cant riot properly in this country... >> >> We used to. >> >> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peterloo_Massacre The french did it better, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 21:58
Fuel Price Petition - Runfer D'Hills
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| No blockades please ! It's hard enough getting around the country trying to earn a crust without that malarky as well. Write to your MPs , it's what they're for. Bombard them with paper if necessary, just don't lash up the road system for everyone else to make your point. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 22:01
Fuel Price Petition - Old Navy
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The traffic won't be a problem Humph, you won't have any diesel anyway. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 13 Jan 11 at 22:03
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Thu 13 Jan 11 22:03
Fuel Price Petition - Runfer D'Hills
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That's true, gosh that would be such a useful thing to do to the economy this year wouldn't it ? Grind it to a halt. That'll help won't it.... :-( |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 22:04
Fuel Price Petition - Iffy
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...Don't worry about the traffic Humph, you won't have any diesel anyway. :-)... True, can't see 'shoe salesman' making the reserved occupation list. Unless it's raining a lot and he moves into wellies. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 22:06
Fuel Price Petition - Harleyman
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>> If food supplies are in danger, Cobblers. The Great British Public's idea of a food shortage is no milk in Tesco's for a day (normally self-inflicted through panic buying) or Sainsburys' being completely out of organic broccoli. Quel dommage! One of my old farmer customers commented to me some years ago that one of the biggest problems with this country is that people have forgotten what it is to have a food shortage. Or, in fact, any kind of shortage beyond not being able to buy the latest "must-have" computer gadget or video game. I hereby predict that the Great British Public could well be in for an unpleasant surprise sooner than it thinks. And not through a truckers blockade which is doomed to failure anyway because any gains they make will be nullified by the press turning on them the first time some old biddy misses her outpatients appointment to have her feet done. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 22:09
Fuel Price Petition - Old Navy
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>> One of my old farmer customers commented to me some years ago that one of >> the biggest problems with this country is that people have forgotten what it is to >> have a food shortage. Or, in fact, any kind of shortage beyond not being able >> to buy the latest "must-have" computer gadget or video game. >> >> I hereby predict that the Great British Public could well be in for an unpleasant >> surprise sooner than it thinks. >> >> I have posted before that the "me now" generations are in for a shock soon, I still believe that to be true. |
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Thu 13 Jan 11 22:55
Fuel Price Petition - Bigtee
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At one time there used to be Police stopping cars and dipping tanks how long before this is happening again & there looking for Red diesel as this is the much cheaper option and we all know it works just fine in our cars.! They try many a time to get rid of the dye and it never works or damages the engines, it won't be too long before many a motorist goes this way to Red.!! Just a shame newer cars won't run on cooking oil without problems like the older bangers did. |
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Fri 14 Jan 11 05:52
Fuel Price Petition - Pat
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Well, that’s certainly given me a good cross section of opinions to consider. Don’t worry Rattle, I’m not going to end up in prison! The campaign wants our support as a body, much the same as the RHA and FTA, not so much as in an active role, however our members may want to act individually in that way. Reading through the whole thread again this morning it seems almost split 50/50. Those who would support any action including direct action being half, but the other half seems to be split into two groups – those who would support a petition only and those who worry about where the income would be replaced from. The latter is a very valid concern and one that is easy to forget about. There are some statements above that we, in the haulage industry find hard to understand, and I’m not pointing at any individuals here, just making points at random. We are certainly not trying to make this fuel price problem OUR problem. On the contrary, because it is something that affects everyone, we have always been at a loss to understand why we don’t get more support from the general public for action. As the industry is the 6th largest employer and contributes over £8 billion in duty a year, surely it should be taking the lead on behalf of others? The other fact that comes over again is that the public want lower fuel prices, but if the route to getting that goal causes them, as a person any inconvenience, they would rather walk away. As a lot of posters have pointed out, the easy route doesn’t always get results. >>and remember the public still despises truckers<< At the risk of alienating myself from GB and HM on here, I have to say that this is an opinion I completely disagree with. The truth of the matter is, that is what lorry drivers think, NOT the public. It was born by a poor hard done by trucker having a bad day (so what, we all have them) and has been propagated at every opportunity by lorry drivers ever since, so much so that they actually believe it. More to the point, they give off the vibes that they are hated and despised by everyone, and so, invite that type of treatment from the public. If lorry drivers showed themselves some SELF respect it would certainly help others to respect us. In all the time I was a lorry driver I refused to be downtrodden, I stood tall and defended the ‘plight’ of lorry drivers. My biggest critics have always been……other lorry drivers. Get more than two drivers together and inevitable they will end up talking themselves down, and then the apathy sets in that nothing can ever be changed. It certainly can, but it has to come from within. I could go on, and on, and on! Back to the original post. No decision has been made yet, and when it is made it will certainly not be entirely mine, but carefully considered by all of the trustees of the PDA. Thanks for allowing me to have a much wider view of the situation to enable me to make a considered vote on the matter. Pat Last edited by: pda on Fri 14 Jan 11 at 05:56
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Fri 14 Jan 11 07:51
Fuel Price Petition - hobby
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I reckon truckers are only despised in the same way caravaners are and for similar reasons... They slow traffic down and are unweildy in tight spots... Wouldn't worry about it, Pat... Its only the impatient that you're annoying and none of us have any sympathy for them... especially Rattle... Going back to your commeny about "lack of sympathy" from the Public... Maybe its because they feel there are too many trucks on the roads today? But that's probably more to do with the "me, now" attitude mentioned earlier... If we didn't want everything yesterday then that could relieve pressure on the system... It could also be that "they" have to suffer the high prices and get on with it, why can't truckers? I don't necessarily agree with those sentiments, but perhaps thats how most of the General Public feel and why you may not get the sympathy you feel you deserve... Last edited by: hobby on Fri 14 Jan 11 at 07:51
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Fri 14 Jan 11 08:00
Fuel Price Petition - Hard Cheese
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Hi Pat, >>but the other half seems to be split into two groups – those who would support a petition only and those who worry about where the income would be replaced from.>> I would support a petition though we all have to consider the defecit and if the gov relax fuel duty then savings or taxes will have to be applied elsewhere. Another concern is the state of the roads, although motoring related revenue is far in excess of what is spent on transport, yet alone the roads, it would be dificult to pressurise the authourities to invest heaviliy in the road network if there is a real reduction in tax revenue. Lastly with regard to the perception of truckers, I have every respect for them personally though that respect goes down when they strike, blockade refineries and conduct moving baricades on dual-carriageways and motorways, I am sure I am not alone. Truckers are a minority in repect of road users, a vital minority of course, though they have no mandate to fight a cause on the basis that they are fighting for all of us. Regards. |
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Fri 14 Jan 11 08:45
Fuel Price Petition - Injection Doc
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Cheddar "I would support a petition though we all have to consider the defecit and if the gov relax fuel duty then savings or taxes will have to be applied elsewhere." Why should the tax come from else where ? the point is that there is so much wastage within the goverment, its the wastage through sheer incompetence and lack of business experince by most in office who appear unacountable that have got us into this state! If they cut the wastage by the billion they wouldn't need so much tax, especially all the support & sympathy we seem to offer to all and sundry that flow into this country! The most incredible thing is that as a UK tax payer if you work abroad for a while and then return to the UK and have forgotton to pay your NI your not entitled to any benifit, even though you may of paid Ni for 20+ years but those that just flood in get access to all & sundry ! time for it to stop for good! that where are money & recources go. I have great respect for lorry drivers and they have a carp job at times often away from home , living in a cab 24/7, no proper toilet facilites & all for a pitance. I would like to see a surgeon eraning 150+k a year swap jobs for a year & see how they cope with all the hours & concentration & responsibility. All the energy and effort should be put into how can we create an effective resolution. Pull together peps like they have in Brisbane. |
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Fri 14 Jan 11 08:57
Fuel Price Petition - Zero
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> >> all for a pitance. I would like to see a surgeon eraning 150+k a year >> swap jobs for a year & see how they cope with all the hours & >> concentration & responsibility. You want to be operated on by a lorry driver? Frankly I cant think of any less concentration or responsibility required than a surgeon. As for hours? Some surgeons make lorry drivers seem like part timers. |
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Fri 14 Jan 11 09:03
Fuel Price Petition - Hard Cheese
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>> Why should the tax come from else where ? the point is that there >> is so much wastage within the goverment, its the wastage through sheer incompetence and lack >> Yes and the new lot are tackling it so wastage reduction has been built into the fiscal plans. I must say that fuel duty is too high and if the state of the economy was better I would like to see a totally different approach to taxation, also even in today's world there is an argument for freezing fuel duty hence I would sign a petition. However we are all in this defecit together and millitant action will simply cause disruption, increase costs, decrease productivity and make matters worse. |
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Fri 14 Jan 11 09:40
Fuel Price Petition - Iffy
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...public despise lorry drivers... I think a lot of professions have a bunker mentality. Builders think the public think they are all cowboys who never turn up on time. Plumbers think the public think they are all rip-off merchants who pee in your water tank. Lawyers think the public think they are all greedy, slippery characters prepared to do anything for a fee. Bankers think the public think they are all over-paid shysters who will pull the plug on your overdraft at the most inconvenient moment. The truth, of course, is there are builders, plumbers, lawyers and bankers like that. But the Great British public is savvy enough to make a judgment on a case-by-case basis. So yes, as Harelyman says above, the public do despise the lorry driver who is a rapist. But they have an open mind about the driver in the lorry behind him, and all the other lorry drivers who are not sexual predators. |
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Fri 14 Jan 11 10:21
Fuel Price Petition - paulb
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>> I must say that fuel duty is too high and if the state of the >> economy was better I would like to see a totally different approach to taxation, also >> even in today's world there is an argument for freezing fuel duty hence I would >> sign a petition. >> This is the thing. Increasing revenue to pay down debt is all well and good, but there is a balance to be struck - too far the wrong way, and it becomes self-defeating. I have said it before, but I do wish SOMEBODY in HM Treasury would read Parkinson's The Law and the Profits and heed what it says. |
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Fri 14 Jan 11 09:54
Fuel Price Petition - tyro
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"the point is that there is so much wastage within the goverment, " Wastage in the public sector in the UK is not only endemic, it is probably an inbuilt (and valued) feature. The only way to cut it is to cut back the public sector. You will notice that when unions protest, they talk about protecting jobs and services. And many people think that this is a worthy aim. The fact that they don't just talk about protecting services tells you that waste is part of what it's all about. Last edited by: tyro on Fri 14 Jan 11 at 09:56
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Fri 14 Jan 11 10:03
Fuel Price Petition - Iffy
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It might not come down, but it looks like it might not now go up: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1346964/Cameron-offers-hope-relief-petrol-price-pain-hints-fuel-tax-reform-March-budget.html |
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Fri 14 Jan 11 10:09
Fuel Price Petition - Harleyman
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>> Lastly with regard to the perception of truckers, I have every respect for them personally >> though that respect goes down when they strike, blockade refineries and conduct moving baricades on >> dual-carriageways and motorways, I am sure I am not alone. >> I rest my case. In other words, truck drivers are OK when they're not affecting you, and impeding the progress of your far more important journey. Pat, I'll happily admit that I tend to be somewhat cynical, but I can't say I share youre optimism. Everything that HGV drivers and operators do to publicise the fuel protests ends up being twisted by the media, and the public 's perception; run a rolling roadblock, we're wasting all that fuel,"Well they must be able to afford it then, and what about all those shiny trucks, they must cost a few bob, and they're always polishing them, must have plenty of spare time, hmmmm, dunno why they're all pleading poverty......" See previous thread regarding farmers and Range Rovers..... |
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Fri 14 Jan 11 10:23
Fuel Price Petition - Pat
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I've heard all those remarks a thousand times HM, but the problem is most lorry drivers have come to believe them. Where's the spirit gone to rise above it all, and portray a professional attitude to command the respect we know we deserve? Pat |
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Fri 14 Jan 11 11:30
Fuel Price Petition - Harleyman
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>> Where's the spirit gone to rise above it all, and portray a professional attitude to >> command the respect we know we deserve? >> We're probably portraying a more "professional" attitude than we've ever done in some ways; like it or not we can thank the likes of Stobart for that, for introducing uniformed drivers, corporate liveries and a public-friendly persona. The price we pay is that we are now, more than ever, viewed as a "steering wheel attendant" by our employers. If you want to know where the spirit went, check out the registration plate on every fifth lorry you see on our motorways; you'll notice it's not from the UK, and is hauling goods for less than we can. Drivers know darn well that they're more dispensable than they ever were, and since the introduction of the minimum wage eroded pay differentials, there's no incentive to do the job any more. Truckstops have largely gone, you're not even safe from robbery and assault even if you do use them; in short, the public view us as a necessary evil. That "spirit" might have been rife from the end of the last war up till the 1990's, but it's been screwed out of us now by a vastly changed working environment. Not meant unkindly, but if anyone's living in the past, Pat, I think you are. |
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Fri 14 Jan 11 11:34
Fuel Price Petition - Pat
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I don't agree:) The spirit has only been screwed out of us because we've allowed it to be. We've not just allowed it though, we've actively encouraged it. Pat |
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Fri 14 Jan 11 10:42
Fuel Price Petition - Hard Cheese
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>> >> I rest my case. In other words, truck drivers are OK when they're not affecting >> you, and impeding the progress of your far more important journey. >> There is no "in other words" about it, and it is not a mater of impeding a journey, I made the point above in another way, truckers dont have a mandate to disruptively protest on behalf of all motorists. I dont want blockaded refineries. I dont want my local filling station to run out of fuel. I dont want panic buying in Tescos for the fear of shortages. I want a normal life with friendly discourse and constructive arguments being the way to steer the politicos. |
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Fri 14 Jan 11 10:44
Fuel Price Petition - Pat
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So does that mean you're prepared to pay more and more for this normal life? Pat |
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Fri 14 Jan 11 10:49
Fuel Price Petition - Hard Cheese
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>> So does that mean you're prepared to pay more and more for this normal life? >> Not willingly Pat, see my post at 09:03 today, that sums it up. |
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Fri 14 Jan 11 11:08
Fuel Price Petition - John H
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>> So does that mean you're prepared to pay more and more for this normal life? >> >> Pat >> Who else do you expect to pay for your way of life? The nation needs to raise money for continuing public expenditure and to pay off debts incurred in the past. Otherwise we end up in the same dire situation as the PIGS (Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain). The UK raises a lot of tax via fuel duties, and if that take is reduced then there has to be a matching balancing act elsewhere - either more cuts in spending or more taxes via other routes. It will be painful, and it will get a lot worse in the next two or three years before we see any signs of it turning around and heading back to getting "normal" as in the early part of the last decade. As Fenlander said earlier, in the long term people will have to change their habits and the way they organise their lives(*) to be able to afford cars and fuel. (*) - This weekend, you will see lots of traffic on the roads with parents ferrying their children back to University after the Xmas break. Trips from Exeter to Durham for students going that way, and trips from Durham to Exeter for students going in the opposite direction. Madness. |
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Fri 14 Jan 11 11:57
Fuel Price Petition - Pat
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>>The UK raises a lot of tax via fuel duties, and if that take is reduced then there has to be a matching balancing act elsewhere -<< >>have to change their habits and the way they organise their lives(*) to be able to afford cars and fuel<< So if the second statement happens, then the first one will not be possible and there will be a reduction, which in itself will mean the income from fuel will have to come from elsewhere. I suspect that those who can afford to keep paying more and DON'T have to change their lifestyle will never truly support any reduction in fuel duty. Pat Last edited by: pda on Fri 14 Jan 11 at 11:57
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Fri 14 Jan 11 12:21
Fuel Price Petition - John H
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>> So if the second statement happens, then the first one will not be possible and >> there will be a reduction, which in itself will mean the income from fuel will >> have to come from elsewhere. >> No. It means that the balance of payments swings in favour of Britain - as we have to import fewer oil. Fewer cars bought by Brits means less money going abroad to the owners of the car plants - the owners tend to be foreigners, whether the plant is based in UK or abroad. >> I suspect that those who can afford to keep paying more and DON'T have to >> change their lifestyle will never truly support any reduction in fuel duty. >> Tough. That is how it has always been, even under socialist and communist governments - here or anywhere in the world. It is not all doom and gloom. www.cnbc.com/id/40905113/UK_Manufacturing_PMI_Hits_16_Year_High_in_December Tuesday, 4 Jan 2011 "British manufacturing activity grew at its fastest pace in over 16 years in December and firms' costs rose at a record pace, " |
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Fri 14 Jan 11 12:08
Fuel Price Petition - Injection Doc
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"As Fenlander said earlier, in the long term people will have to change their habits and the way they organise their lives(*) to be able to afford cars and fuel. I think most of us have done that already, but with having usless public transport its not pratical for an alternative! For my wife and I to of travelled to work by public transport would of taken over 3/3/4 hrs for an 11 mile journey ! leaving at 0720 to arrive for 9 when it takes 18 mins in the car & finishing work at 17.40 and the next public transport was at 18.20 arriving at 19.00hrs and the cost for two on public transport was over £200 per month! Joke or what. (*) - This weekend, you will see lots of traffic on the roads with parents ferrying their children back to University after the Xmas break. Trips from Exeter to Durham for students going that way, and trips from Durham to Exeter for students going in the opposite direction. Madness. So how else do you expect them to get to uni, when trains are cancelled and diverted & for my Daughter the train fare return to Doncaster from the West was £190.00 Its pure theft. Plus my daughter cant use her student card before 10.30 on the Train so has to pay full fare whilst a student so she find it cheaper to use her car! When i was at Paddington the other day due to a cancelled train on another line I had to buy another ticket to get home and the Single fare for just over an hours journey was £118.00 !!!!!!!!! I said to the ticket office I only wanted to sit in the seat not buy the seat but she was less than impressed! |
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Fri 14 Jan 11 12:29
Fuel Price Petition - John H
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>> I think most of us have done that already, Some may have reached the absolute limit of what they can do, but most have not. For a start, observe the traffic on Motorways. If cars had limiters fitted to restrict their speeds 60 or 65 mph, the saving in fuel would be enormous. Most cars on M-ways are blasting along at 70+ mph, proving that fuel consumption is the least of their worries. >> So how else do you expect them to get to uni, when trains are cancelled >> Change your lifestyle and way of thinking. Do what people in other countries do - send your children to your local University, and let them stay at home. High fuel duties and 20% vat are here to stay, whether Labour get back in power or not. Get used to it and start planning your lives around that fact. |
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Fri 14 Jan 11 12:22
Fuel Price Petition - IJWS14
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What is the point - the petition will be ignored. While there are large numbers of unnecessessarily fuel hungry vehicles being driven faster than the most economic speed on the motorways (You really are your own worst enemy on this) the government wont do anything about fuel costs as the indicator is that we can CLEARLY afford it. |
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Fri 14 Jan 11 12:30
Fuel Price Petition - John H
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>> While there are large numbers of unnecessessarily fuel hungry vehicles being driven faster than the >> most economic speed on the motorways (You really are your own worst enemy on this) >> Well said. 100% true. |
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Fri 14 Jan 11 12:34
Fuel Price Petition - Iffy
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...the government won't do anything about fuel costs...well said 100% true... www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1346964/Cameron-offers-hope-relief-petrol-price-pain-hints-fuel-tax-reform-March-budget.html |
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Fri 14 Jan 11 13:40
Fuel Price Petition - John H
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>> ...the government won't do anything about fuel costs...well said 100% true... >> I never said that. You have made up that quote in a reply to my post. But then you are a journo, or somesuch, aren't you? |
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Fri 14 Jan 11 12:31
Fuel Price Petition - DP
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We are in the process of trying to get our eldest daughter into a different school which happens to be within walking distance (although that isn't the main reason we've chosen it). We have already taken the decision that, once it happens, and assuming our youngest daughter gets the same school, we are going to go down to one car. It's just getting too expensive to tax, insure, fuel and maintain two cars with the recent increases in the cost of fuel and general living costs. |
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Fri 14 Jan 11 12:48
Fuel Price Petition - Harleyman
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We've already gone down from two cars (one small hatchback & one sports coupe) to one new, "greener" budget hatchback and a 100cc motor scooter; do not ride our large motorcycles during winter, although this is more about getting VFM from the excise duty, and we both work within two miles of home. Mrs. H has also acquired a pushbike which she intends to use for commuting once the weather improves. Home-wise, we use the wood-burners as much as possible to reduce oil consumption, viable for us since I get my firewood for the cost of my own labour and haulage. We also have a larger than average oil storage tank which enables us to take advantage of seasonal dips in price, and avoid buying small quantities in winter; I thoroughly recommend this to others as it has paid for itself twice over in the six years since I installed it. Still have the gas-guzzling pick-up but fuel costs are offset by the zero VED because of its age, the minimal mileage it does, and the fact that without it I would need a bigger car to pull a trailer to haul firewood in sizeable quantities. Last edited by: Harleyman on Fri 14 Jan 11 at 12:51
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Fri 14 Jan 11 17:10
Fuel Price Petition - MrTee43
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With regard to wasted money, why do we need a bigger/better nuclear deterrent, spending the billions it will cost to replace Trident. Don't we have enough killing capacity already. Last edited by: MrTee43 on Fri 14 Jan 11 at 17:11
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Fri 14 Jan 11 18:10
Fuel Price Petition - Skoda
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>> deterrent >> Don't we have enough killing capacity already They're not the same thing. In this ole world, the man with the biggest stick gets biggest respect. Why is that important? If this is the fuss over fuel tax, can you imagine what it'd be like if we were all being relegated to living in shanty towns. |
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Fri 14 Jan 11 18:13
Fuel Price Petition - Skoda
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>> If this is the fuss over fuel tax That came across as if i don't care about the fuel prices, i do. I just can't see another way (although would happily be enlightened!) to get the extra money UK PLC needs. Last edited by: Skoda on Fri 14 Jan 11 at 18:13
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Fri 14 Jan 11 21:26
Fuel Price Petition - sajid
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for a start let see cut mp expenses and subsidies make the uk more attractive for investors link foreign aid to countries willing to invest here reduce the payments for being in the euro Negotiate better subsidies from europe food etc have a taxpayers charter taxpayers allowed to decide what needs to be spent on and what has been spent. reduce the fuel duty to 50 percent, the other 50 percent is for the price of fuel Buy oil in euros not in dollars Get out of afganistan and iraq |
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Fri 14 Jan 11 21:53
Fuel Price Petition - Iffy
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...Get out of afganistan and iraq... And Europe. |
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