Just got back from a pub lunch, where we cycled along a public footpath which passed along a private road. The private road had 'No cycling' signs at each end.
Before anyone complains about cycling on a footpath, this is an old 'green lane' that has vehicular access at each end. There's not any restriction signs at either end, but bollards restricting width after the vehicular access.
The no cycling signs aren't the recognised highway code version, just a sign-written board indicating it's a private road (albeit part of a designated public path, but not a bridleway) including the words 'No cycling' for the part that passes along the private road.
So what offence have I committed? Perhaps trespass, for daring to cycle along the road they drive down. Should I offer a penny in damages to their road surface?
If I got off my bike and walked it the length of the private road, presumably no-one's got grounds for complaint?
If they were serious about preventing cyclists, wouldn't a gate with pedestrian access be sensible?
This is likely to be a route I use in the future. Any suggestions as to what should be my response if challenged?
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I assume you're in England or Wales (not Scotland) & it's a 'definitive' footpath of the type marked as a dotted line on the OS map?
In that case cycling is not permitted, it would be on a bridleway. No need for signs; they've probably bbeen put there to deter.
Whether it's a problem is a different question.
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Ask the "Challenger" if they are interested in certain intimate activites and travel! Job Done! seriouslly see the following
Any person can enter a place if the landowners permit it. However, this does not necessarily make a permanent right of access, and unless they have dedicated a bit of land to be permanently open it is within the power of the landowner to ask any person to leave, assuming that person does not have some other lawful reason to be there. The landowner does not have to give a reason. If the person does not go immediately, by the shortest practical route, then they are trespassing. Despite the well known sign ‘trespassers will be prosecuted’, trespass is not a criminal offence and trespassers cannot usually be prosecuted. They can, however, be sued. There is little chance of such a matter ever being so serious as to be worth suing over, and so this rarely happens.
OP also mentions Green Lane and vehicular access which doesn't sound like something which is excusively a foortpath
Last edited by: Perky Penguin on Tue 12 Apr 11 at 15:42
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...Any suggestions as to what should be my response if challenged?...
Unlikely you will be, unless you are the type of cyclist who 'buzzes' pedestrians. :)
I would politely ignore any challenge, without bothering to stop to listen to it.
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>>>I would politely ignore any challenge, without bothering to stop to listen to it.
Then I would arrange a broom handle in the front spokes a little further on for you... :-)
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...Then I would arrange a broom handle in the front spokes a little further on for you... :-)...
You'd have to catch me first.
Stuff like this is such a nonsense.
A bloke wants to cycle along a deserted footpath - so what?
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Can anyone explain how it is possible to ignore someone politely?
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...Can anyone explain how it is possible to ignore someone politely?...
Well, if you carry on cycling they might think you'd not heard them.
I just wouldn't enter into any discussion, but neither would I tell the other person to eff off.
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>>>A bloke wants to cycle along a deserted footpath - so what?
There has been much support for Stu in trying to stop folks walking across his frontage... I assume we are all in support because it isn't a right of way across his garden.
In the same way there is no right of way for cycles along this private road.
Same principle.
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> same principal
Needs a bigger hedge tho.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 12 Apr 11 at 16:04
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...Same principle...
Not at all.
This road is a public footpath.
The only question is should the OP be allowed to cycle along it.
Stu's lawn is a private area over which no one has a right to cross.
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Yes it is exactly the same... there is no right to walk across Stu's frontage... there is also no right to cycle on the private track.
In both cases there is no right to do what people are doing.
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...In both cases there is no right to do what people are doing...
It's a footpath, public access, right of way.
It is nothing like Stu's garden, which is none of the above.
The only question is the use of the bicycle.
As the OP asks, is he allowed to push it?
Presumably, he'd be allowed to carry it.
What of pushchairs, a toddler on a trike?
Invalid buggy?
Skateboard/roller skates?
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"Can anyone explain how it is possible to ignore someone politely?'
So. What are you up to this weekend iffy?
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Pretend you are deaf. ....................pardon!
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I am not sure what you are saying - did you cycle along a public footpath, a private road, or a "green lane" (a "restricted byway" (RB) or a BOAT?)?
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My response is based on him cycling on a private roadway that has pedestrian rights due to a public footpath existing.
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>> My response is based on him cycling on a private roadway that has pedestrian rights
>> due to a public footpath existing.
>>
As was mine
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And the facility for cars etc to enter as well, legally or not as the case may be and only as far as the bollards referred to by OP
Last edited by: Perky Penguin on Tue 12 Apr 11 at 16:55
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My robust response to this is not so much to Bathtub for his action but to those who say to ignore any challenge en route. It could well be any challenge is from the owner or their agent/employee who has every right to ask what you're up to.
As I lifetime horse rider I know just how hard it is to win permissions to use tracks and roadways which aren't official bridleways. Polite enquiries of the landowner before using them however has resulted in a positive response nine times out of ten. A bottle at Christmas also works wonders resulting in us being able to ride over thousands of acres.
The one useful track locally we can't use any more is where fellow horse riders and cyclists have used the track without asking and done as some advise above... ignore the landowner when challenged.... rightly this has had him in a purple faced rage and now the track is closed to our use.
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1. bathtub to open the OS map; or 2. enquire, if not clear, of the LA who have the definitive map and statement which records of the type of "road" that it is. We crossed messages! OS map clear that it is a footpath only?
Last edited by: NortonES2 on Tue 12 Apr 11 at 17:27
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If something belongs to someone else..and..they have a right to put a caveat on its' usage...then you should respect that and comply....it belongs to them.
What's the difficulty?
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"What's the difficulty?"
OP is a cyclist Westpig.
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... which aren't official bridleways....
What's all this stuff about negotiating with landowners for the use of their land got to do with it?
Once again, this is a footpath and the OP has a right to use it, certainly on foot, if not on his bicycle.
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>>>What's all this stuff about negotiating with landowners for the use of their land got to do with it?
Everything. You want to do something on private land for which there is no permission? So go ask the landowner and you never know permission may be granted then everyone's happy.
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...So go ask the landowner and you never know permission may be granted then everyone's happy...
True, but you do not need permission to use a footpath.
You need permission to walk, let alone ride anything, across a farmer's field - the farmer can say: "No, get orf my land."
The farmer cannot say that when a footpath crosses his land.
In the OP's case, the 'No Cycling' sign indicates the landowner is seeking to ban that activity, so will not be amenable to polite requests.
I think the OP wobbling along this path on his bicycle after a pub lunch is too trivial to worry about either way.
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At each end it's a public highway, with no restrictions.
One end continues into an unsurfaced track that leads to several properties (I suspect an unadopted road). Further up this track are bollards about a metre apart. Further still you encounter the 'Private Road, No Cycling' sign-written board. You encounter no other sign-age from this direction, other than the HC 'No through road for vehicles' at the start of this road.
The other end is a junction off the public highway. There's a 'public footpath' finger post. This end gives vehicular access to a housing estate. There's another 'Private Road, No Cycling' sign-written board.
My OS map shows it as a public path (right of way).
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>> My OS map shows it as a public path (right of way).
As above, if it's a public footpath then cycling is not permitted & no signs are needed.
The signs have presumably been erected by the landowner becuase he/she perceives illegal use by cyclists as a problem.
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Can you indicate it on a map?
It sounds as though whowver's this is has had problems with "mountain-bikers" before, and is trying to stop them.
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I recognise it's a public path and wouldn't countenance cycling on a footpath when there's an adjacent road.
It's just that it opens up a route to numerous villages, avoiding the by-pass.
SWMBO and I don't relish the thought of wobbling back from a pub lunch along a de-restricted dual carriageway.
tinyurl.com/65p59wx
The private part is the length of Carriage Dr.
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Might be worth walking round to the 'owners' with your friendly hat on and just asking what the reason is for the signs?
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I must be missing a point somewhere but as a matter of courtesy would it be possible to just get off and walk along that short length?
Pat
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tinyurl.com/68xwvne
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 12 Apr 11 at 17:57
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There is a standard Footpath finger sign - The sign at the entrance is a bit blurred but appears to say, in red, Private Road, and underneath Parking Prohibited - nothing about cycling mentioned.
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Bathtub I see this route you've used is part of the propose Bedford Green Wheel plan drawn in 2009... it seems over time this route will have its status changed to include cycling so perhaps you'll just have to cheerily tell anyone who asks you are Green Wheel Pioneers testing the route for suitability.
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I used to live near the Horse and Groom and know the lane in question.
I would suggest that, in this case, the signs are there mostly to deter the locals at the southern end from straying down towards the £½m+ houses in Woodlands and spoiling the view.
I'm sure the OP has neither a Neanderthal brow nor a stolen BMX, so he should be OK pottering back from the Swan of a summer's eve.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi {P} on Tue 12 Apr 11 at 20:11
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>>should be OK pottering back from the Swan of a summer's eve.
Have a problem now Dave: tinyurl.com/5rl54z2
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>>nothing about cycling mentioned.
Sign's changed since Google drove past!
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In this case it's obviously no problem to anybody, and no harm is done by ignoring the signs.
But you could imagine a case where a footpath crosses someone's garden, and then exits down their drive. I know people in this position. So in that case anyone would be annoyed at local youth cycling through their garden, but happy about the odd rambler strolling through.
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The "No through road for vehicles may be a clue! To get to the core, what is needed is the nature of the RoW as shown on the definitive map, or the OS map. I'm not sure that BT has clarified what the map shows...From the 2009 Ordnance Survey map in front of me "From 2nd May 2006 roads used as public paths were redesignated as restricted byways. They provide a right of way for walkers, horse riders, cyclists and other non-mechanically propelled vehicles" I suggest a delve into the LA archives! They used to have persons who dealt with highway aspects.
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You shouldn't cycle on it - the right of way is indeed a footpath, and the road is a private one.
You could push, but it looks as though it's about 0.4miles!
Isn't there an alternative route (but longer) along "Manton Lane"?
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Can't comment directly on your post and my contribution is at best tangential but there are significant parts of Hong Kong where you cannot cycle including mettled public roads which are closed to motor traffic, in fact it is almost impossible to cycle around much of the territory much to my chagrin....
The UK (by comparison) is a cycling paradise.....
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'No cycling' on private road - Bromptonaut
