I’ve driven many automatics, and find them better suited to the stop-go of the daily commute.
I also like Fords - I grew up in a Ford family – and at various times we had Cortinas, Sierras, Escorts and Fiestas. My first car was a MkII Cortina with an automatic gearbox, so I have a bit of a soft spot for the marque.
But not so the Fiesta Sedan Trend (with PowerShift).When I first drove it, the ‘all-new cutting edge dual clutch transmission’ - Ford’s words - was so bad I thought it was broken (which wouldn’t be a surprise, given the way some press-fleet vehicles are thrashed during their lifetime). Starting off, and with the pedal barely moving, the revs climbed… and climbed. I checked to see I hadn’t inadvertently moved the shifter into low gear. I hadn’t. Revs were now at close to 3500RPM, and no change was a-comin’. Aha, now it changes. Stop. Try again. Same scenario.
Well, I’ve done at least half a kilometer, and already I’m having my doubts. My 15 year old Opel, with over 200 thousand on the clock, changes smoother and earlier than this.
After making my way through Durbanville, I head for the backroads, only to get stuck behind a large articulated truck. After mimsing along behind him for a while, he turns off, the road is clear, so I push the accelerator. Bleeeeugh, after coasting with no strain on the engine, the cogs are in the wrong configuration, and there’s no oomph. I push harder, the box wakes up, and drops about three gears at once. Which is one or two too many. So now I am even less than enamored than I was before.
But I shall persevere, and do my damnedest not to be too judgmental. That resolution lasts about three minutes, as the box starts its tricks again. It is either too highly geared or lowly-geared for the situation it finds it self in. So you have either no oomph, or too much.
I then headed into the city, and to be honest, on the freeway the Fiesta wasn’t that bad, but returning in the early rush-hour saw it back to its old tricks. I found myself shouting a la Clarkson “What are you doing?”
To add to my confusion, as dusk came, I noticed a green illuminated symbol amongst the radio display panel in the centre of the dash. It was shaped like a cog. Gearbox warning light? No, warning lights are yellow or red. And the yellow one comes on during the self-diagnostics at start-up. Consulting the manual, I could find no mention of what this green light was, or does. Mmmmm?
I decided to discuss the matter with a friend, and after a harrowing trip down a suburban street with regular speedbumps (you can just imagine, can’t you?) met up with the chap. After a quick spin round the block, he agreed that something didn’t quite feel right, so we headed off into cyberspace to find out more. Unsurprisingly, there are scores of posts reporting almost-identical problems.
And that’s the transmission, arguably the soul of the car. Maybe the manual version would be better. Or maybe not.
I found the overall build quality poor, with a body panels badly aligned and interior fitting already feeling like a loose molar – irritating and bound to cause problems later, and a better gearbox won’t cure that.
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Ah but you see its a Ford and therefore motoring perfection, so driver must be at fault :-)
I rove one of the old CVT Fiestas some years ago, pretty reasonable as they go for a CVT, nice to see Ford are making progress.
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I can't keep track of your names Stu. I thought Iffy had joined in there with all the name shuffling.
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I got bored of the other one, besides, this is a moniker Im known by in other places, well this is the initials of it anyway.
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By and large I prefer autos when they are connected to six cylinders or more. My four cylinder diesel auto is a bit of a bore outside central London. Inside that conurbation it's a blessing of course.
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Welcome to my world.
Automatic gearbox hell, not as fleet trucks have anything as sophisticated as twin clutches, but Ian's description of the indecision, hunting around and general incompetence of these things rings so true...and there's usually 12 gears involved so the scope for mis-selection is wonderfully wide.
In a way it's fine for me, i'm paid by the hour and progress with the things in trafficked roads is painfully slow.
The thing i can't for the life of me fathom is that people will actually buy the things with their own hard earned money, don't people take test drive's any more, or are they brainwashed into believing the sales brochure is gospel.
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I've got a Power Shift box on my S-Max and it's really good - even going up and down steep roads which normally confuse auto boxes. Ever so slight hesitation when slowing for roundabouts and then pulling away again, but that very slight penalty is worth it for me, bearing in mind the fuel savings over torque converter automatics.
Sounds like there's something wrong with the Fiesta box.
Single clutch automated manuals are however the devil's work.
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"By and large I prefer autos when they are connected to six cylinders or more."
I agree with that Humph, certainly in the case of diesels. My A4 Avant 2.5 TDI multitronic was a dream, the Mercedes B200 CDI CVT a nightmare - not that it went wrong, but it droned like a London taxi, only even louder.
That's one reason why, wanting to go back to an auto after two intervening manuals, I chose a petrol Octavia vRS. I'd love a six if I could afford it, but the Octavia with DSG is very quiet and smooth.
Worst autobox ever? Ian, you should try a Corsa with the wrongly-named Easytronic transmission. Not strictly an auto but it changes gear by itself, without the advantage of the DSG double clutch, thus causing a sickening lurch every time it changes gear. The Ford Powershift should in theory be as smooth as VAG's DSG: either it just isn't or there was someing wrong with the one you drove.
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>> My A4 Avant 2.5
>> TDI multitronic was a dream ...
>>
I have the multitronic in my 4-cylinder diesel A5, and I was a bit sceptical before I tried it, but I've been very impressed with its smoothness, and it's ability to be in the right gear.
I'd never go back to a manual - but that is merely my personal preference.
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I remember asking the question in a thread - either here, or on the other side - "Which auto gearboxes have torque converters" - or words to that effect.
I think if you want an auto gearbox then a torque converter is the only way to go.
Anybody got a list of cars with auto boxes that use torque converters?
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Torque converter autos are on their way out, certainly in smaller cars. They are not economical enough for today's world and thus have higher emissions.
Twin clutch automated manuals are what most manufacturers are heading towards in smaller cars and that or multi-gear TC autos in the bigger cars.
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I thought most small cars had CVT auto boxes now.
Not sure how good they are for towing stuff but they must work well.
Moped's and golf carts have been using them for years !
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I'm not sure how many have CVT, but this and dual-clutch have to be the way to go for small cars. Anything under about 2.5 litres with a torque converter automatic struggles to perform with any oomph.
I can't think why some makers think that automated manuals without the dual clutch expect drivers to be satisfied with them. Honda have found that they weren't, and as they listen to their customers the Jazz has reverted to the CVT option.
Vauxhall I presume sell mainly through large-scale deals to fleets, and don't really care what actual drivers think. I'd thought better of Ford, but Ian's original post suggests that their dual clutch transmission isn't perfect, at least not in this particular case.
Last edited by: Avant on Sat 30 Apr 11 at 23:18
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A few small cars still have conventional autoboxes, they seem favoured by Far Eastern manufacturers, perhaps waiting to see the long term durability of the European solutions.
Hyundai seem to still prefer conventional gearboxes, the i10 auto is still decently economical so its prob not worth the engineering for a small car if it cant be taken off another car given the small margins on city cars.
When we bought the Sirion, which has the superb Toyota 4-spd TC box, there was no appreciable difference in mpg between automated manuals and the auto. There is a difference, but its not big enough to make finanacial sense, the wifes car does 43 mpg anyway, not many similar small autos do much better in real world use.
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>> I think if you want an auto gearbox then a torque converter is the only way to go.
I reckon the opposite, i reckon their days are numbered now. It seems a couple of the manufacturers (Borg Warner's various collaborations with car manufacturers) are getting there now after only ~9 years dabbling.
Some are even pushing the envelope further - the new single clutch auto in the Lambo Aventador. Must be harsh on the old syncro's though. www.autotechblog.org/lamborghini-aventadors-7-speedl-transmission-oerlikon-graziano
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I presently have a VW Passat CC as a rental car. I'm in Detroit and I guess the look of horror on my face when the guy at the National Counter offered me a Chrysler Sebring was enough for him to rummage through the keys and find something better. Anyway it's a CC with the 2.0T petrol engine and DSG gearbox. A great car and the gearbox is brilliant. Lightning fast changes on the Interstate and able to give enough control for low speed driving and parking. These gearboxes are definitely the way forward.
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>> Anyway it's a CC with the 2.0T petrol engine and DSG
>> gearbox. A great car and the gearbox is brilliant.
That's got to be in with a shout of being one of the best drivetrains available at reasonable money. The engine is a gem and the gearbox complements it well.
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>> These gearboxes are
>> definitely the way forward.
As long as they keep going forward, it seems with age and miles, quite a few forget the knack.
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I was under the impression the DSG box was pretty reliable as long as it gets its 40,000 mile fluid change.
A colleague actually had to remind his dealer to do this on his A3 at the 40k service, and then take the car back the next day to have it done, as they still forgot.
I wonder how many slip through the net.
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>> I was under the impression the DSG box was pretty reliable
They are reliable. Lots of high mileage ones out there - seen Passat taxis with over 300,000km. There are none of the peculiar clonks at low speed that the early DSGs seemed to suffer. VW seems to have sorted the longevity and reliability issues pretty quickly, especially bearing in mind how many decades it took before torque converter boxes were considered reliable.
There seems to be suspicion on the part of the buying public as there always is with new technology. 20 years ago my Dad wouldn't go near an automatic for fear of it going wrong, now he wouldn't buy anything else.
Have to admit to being impressed with the CC, it feels a class above the normal Passat and I am a sucker for cars with frameless windows. Disappointing that it's not the 3.6 4motion, but the 2.0T is very refined and the acceleration is great. The handling is also very precise, whilst maintaining a ride quality supple enough for dealing with the cratered roads here. I have the feeling that some roads haven't been renovated since I was last here in 2005 - and I remember having to drive around the potholes then!
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>> >> I was under the impression the DSG box was pretty reliable
>>
>> They are reliable. Lots of high mileage ones out there -
dealers down blackbushe auctions seemed to eye them with suspicion.
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My VW tech mate reckons the fluid change (or lack of) is ultra critical. If it's even 10k late (or missed), they are almost guaranteed to pack up before 80,000 miles. On the other hand, he reckons they service a few DSG cars which are well into six figures and have never given a day's trouble, but all of them have had religious fluid changes.
As always when buying used, it's caveat emptor. Given the shoddy attitude to servicing by many car owners, and some franchised dealers neglectful service (as witnessed by my colleague), it's not surprising that horror stories emerge. The 'box itself is not the problem though.
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Sorry to revive an old thread (isn't the search facility marvellous?) - but have been researching supermini automatics, and this appeared.
The OP mentions a twin-clutch gearbox for the Fiesta (and didn't like it) - in Europe a 1.4 petrol torque convertor box is offered. Reading reviews (two years old), this doesn't appear to be much better. Has anybody had recent experience with one? Hope Ford have sorted it out, given the reviews of the other characteristics of the Fiesta. Otherwise it appears to be a VW DSG box (with extended warranty!) in a Polo or Ibiza.
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Ford Fiesta - worst autobox ever? - Stuu
