Mrs Beest renewed her cover on the Verso this week. She ended up paying more to stay with her current insurer because several others she spoke to found surprising reasons for loading the premium or not quoting at all.
- Modification Apparently our Verso is 'modified' because it has a dealer-fit, Toyota-approved, detachable towbar. We don't tow - although I suppose we could - but we use it to attach a four-bike carrier. It hasn't been a concern at previous renewals but it is now.
- Voluntary work I spend a few hours a week helping out with the youth section of my cricket club and working towards a coaching qualification. The car just gets me (and the young Beests, and occasionally a friend of theirs) there and back; I don't drive other children to away matches because they all have fragrant mummies with big sunglasses to do that. But one insurer refused to quote at all when told this.
Are the insurers getting tougher? Or have these questions always been there, just never asked of us?
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>> one insurer refused to quote at all when told this.
Does that mean you have to 'fess up to the question: 'have you ever been refused insurance'?
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>> >> one insurer refused to quote at all when told this.
>>
>> Does that mean you have to 'fess up to the question: 'have you ever been
>> refused insurance'?
>>
I doubt it, just about every time I do an online quote via Confused Go Meerkat .com there's a few insurers who won't quote.
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>> >> one insurer refused to quote at all when told this.
>>
>> Does that mean you have to 'fess up to the question: 'have you ever been
>> refused insurance'?
>>
Refusing to quote is not the same as refusing insurance.
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I don't think they're getting tougher. Just more ridiculous. I wonder how many owners have declared having a towbar fitted to their insurers? If not, are they in effect driving without insurance? Anything to get out of paying out on a claim no doubt. Same goes for aftermarket alloys. To take it to extremes, how do you go on for replacement tyres when the tyre manufacturer no longer makes the exact pattern your car came with originally?
I was once asked what colour the car was. What's that all about?
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>> - Modification Apparently our Verso is 'modified' because it has a dealer-fit, Toyota-approved, detachable towbar.
>>
Depends on insurance company's policy. Did you/wife confirm the above with a senior suprevisor/manager?
>> - Voluntary work
I should think that qualifies as "social, domestic, pleasure". Again, did you/wife confirm the point with a senior suprevisor/manager?
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I can understand the tow bar bit actually. If you get hit up the jacksy (or reverse into something hard) the tow bar bracket and fixings is going to transfer shock and loading to other parts of the car structure. Sometimes causing more damage than otherwise. Not uncommon for tow bars to ripple the car floor.
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>> I can understand the tow bar bit actually.
>>
If it is fitted at the factory as a factory fit option (or as a standard item), then insurance policies don't class it as a modification.
Last edited by: John H on Thu 9 Jun 11 at 15:08
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Tow bars are not factory fit modifications. They are dealer fit.
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>> Tow bars are not factory fit modifications. They are dealer fit.
>>
Zero wrong? Can't be. Never.
tinyurl.com/3pn7w5v
In reply to the OP, interesting discussion here:
www.swift-talk.co.uk/forum/topics/car-insurance-1?id=2976642%3ATopic%3A56404&page=1#comments
and here
www.caravantalk.org.uk/topic/39825-towbar-mod-blows-cover/
particularly the comment no. 23 by bordeauxderek
"Have recently taken out new car insurance with the AA.
Had forgotten to say I had a tow bar, when paperwork arrived and I studied it, I realised my mistake. Rang them up,NO PROBLEM, they re-issued the "Statement of Insurance" with tow bar added at NO CHARGE.
The Policy also states they cover whilst towing, and my AA Breakdown Cover recovery element includes caravans up to 3500kg and 7' 6" wide that are being towed. Actual caravan covered by CC insurance.(But CC wanted £160 more than AA for equivilant car/ breakdown renewal)
AA did try to charge me extra for Voluntary work driving elderly to various medical appointments (Local Authority funded at cost) but backed down when I gave them some info from the Community Transport Association !!"
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They mostly seem to be talking about dealer fit ones there John, wrongly described as factory fit.
And anyway, it still doesen't alter the fact that it will change the way the car behaves in a crash.
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Hadn't thought of that. Suppose the same would be true if you had a bull bar fitted to the front of an SUV. Might protect the lights and grill but wreck the vehicle's structure.
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And the people you hit, who in turn might try and take you (your insurance company) to the cleaners.
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Most members will know that if you are caught speeding, are offered a speed awareness course, and take it, you don't have to tell the insurance company.
Quite right, it's not a motoring conviction.
I'm told Admiral Group has now added the almost inevitable extra question:
Have you ever been offered or accepted a speed awareness course?
Surprised it took 'em so long.
I expect other companies will follow.
Of course, we don't know what, if anything, they will do if you answer 'Yes'.
But we could all take a good guess.
Last edited by: Iffy on Thu 9 Jun 11 at 16:35
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Years ago, there used to be a "catchall" question, along the lines of "have you provided all relevant information"
Of course no-one knew what was relevant until after the event. Think it was outlawed under unfair practises.
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The new questions appearing on motor insurance proposal forms are a result of new legislation designed to help the consumer.
The law of disclosure on insurance goes back a long way and is based on the fact that insurance is very much a one sided contract. The proposer knows the facts, the insurance company doesn't. The law therefore placed a duty on the proposer to disclose any fact that would affect the decision of a "prudent underwriter" on deciding to accept the insurance, whether or not that underwriter actually asked the relevant question.
This was all very well when insurance was mainly a commercial transaction but now that we all need insurance the problem is that the man in the street doesn't' necessarily understand what facts a "prudent underwriter" wants to know.
The law is now changing for private insurance and in future the duty of disclosure will be limited to answering honestly questions asked by the Insurer. This is why Insurers are reviewing their proposal forms to make sure they are asking the right questions.
More info. here:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13525749
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Thanks for the link, CG. That explains it perfectly.
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>>
>> The law is now changing for private insurance and in future the duty of disclosure
>> will be limited to answering honestly questions asked by the Insurer. This is why Insurers
>> are reviewing their proposal forms to make sure they are asking the right questions.
>>
Maybe that means the end of the ridiculous catch-all 'has the car been modified' question.
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>>
>>
>> Of course, we don't know what, if anything, they will do if you answer 'Yes'.
>>
>> But we could all take a good guess.
>>
They would recognize that the driver had been on a highly-regarded course, and they would reward his enhanced driving skills by quoting a much reduced premium. :)
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>> They would recognize that the driver had been on a highly-regarded course, and they would
>> reward his enhanced driving skills by quoting a much reduced premium. :)
>>
Only if the item being insured was a flying pig.
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I find it odd that, although points on a licence only last for 4 years, insurers want to know of convictions in the last 5 years. That said, I haven't found that 3 points affect a quote or cover anyway.
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>> I find it odd that, although points on a licence only last for 4 years,
>> insurers want to know of convictions in the last 5 years.
Points and their retention on the licence are part of a statutory scheme to punish errant motorists. The insurance company is interested in risk.
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So what risk is implied by expired points on a licence ie no points?
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A driver who has had points is a higher risk than one who never has. The longer you go without, the closer the risk returns to normal.
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I take your point but I see some drivers about, particularly on motorways, who drive as if they haven't even got licences to put points on!
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>> I find it odd that, although points on a licence only last for 4 years,
>> insurers want to know of convictions in the last 5 years. That said, I haven't
>> found that 3 points affect a quote or cover anyway.
>>
Typical question (taken from e-sure) says "Motoring convictions or fixed penalty offences - we need to know about any motoring convictions and fixed penalty offences you have had in the last 5 years. This includes any convictions where the conviction ended in the last 5 years. We don't need to know about any conviction regarded as 'spent'."
example of loading applied for speeding (old example): see case 1 here
www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/25/25-insurance-casestudies-non-disclosure.htm
The 5 years question is to deal with drink driving. The limit is used because after 5 years the offence is considered spent and even though the licence remains endorsed for 11 years, it cannot be taken in to account for insurance.
www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/ombudsman-news/25/25-disclosure-of-spent-motoring-convictions.htm
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Insurers: asking new questions? - bathtub tom
