>>No Alfasud? Pah<<
I used to call em Alfa Sods!
:-D
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Yeah, but they were lovable little Sods.
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>>Yeah, but they were lovable little Sods<<
I can only but agree, worked on quite a few, they tuned up well enough and were 'different' to drive.
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I never liked the 205 Gti, always felt like if it hit a pothole it would disintegrate.
Ill take a Rover 200 vi please, loved them.
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>> I never liked the 205 Gti, always felt like if it hit a pothole it
>> would disintegrate.
Steering so pin sharp you could avoid the pot holes.
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>> I never liked the 205 Gti, always felt like if it hit a pothole it
>> would disintegrate.
>>
Yes, they made a Metro feel nice and solid. Good chassis though.
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Although to give them their credit, they didn't rusty as quickly as a Metro!!
I loved my 205 GTI, a great handling car, and it looked fantastic in bright red, before the paint faded and the plastic wheel arches turned grey with age ;-) Mine had a black/red interior, which included bright red carpets and seatbelts. There was plenty of painted metal visible inside too, but it looked none the worse for it.
Very light (or should that be tinny...), with a mid grey plastic dashboard that felt like it had been made from egg boxes. I think later ones had an 'improved' dashboard, but I suspect it was still pretty fragile
Mine was reliable for the year or so I had it...though a wheel did drop off shortly after I sold it to a friend!!
Peter
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I also liked the 205 GTI, when I'd finished tuning em, I'd give em some stick & they made me feel young (again!)
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The Alfasud wasn't a hatch was it?
The best hot hatch I ever had was a Lancia HPE - went like the clappers, cornered on rails and would carry a fridge.
And there was never a spot of rust on it...
Last edited by: Mike Hannon on Tue 14 Jun 11 at 12:27
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Mk1 Suds were booted, then they were adapted and a hatch version was made available.
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Even in 1.7 diesel form the 205 was a nifty handler. Hassling mine throughthe B road to Banbury it left Mrs B's similalry powered BX for dead.
Not too keen on the petrol version but the turbo diesel would have been fantastic.
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They missed a few - how about the Cosworth, Astra GTE 16V - arguably the best 2.0 petrol engine ever- even if the chassis was dodgy, MK5 GTi,306 GTi.....????
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>> Astra GTE 16V - arguably the best 2.0 petrol engine ever>>
Oh come on, lilac coloured glasses, it was fine though the later variable intake unit in the '95 on Vectra was much more gutsy at low revs and more refined not to mention various 2.0 16v units from Renault, BMW, Ford, Alfa ... ... ...
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I still rate the Vauxhall C20XE as one of the all time greats.
Probably the first mass produced, naturally aspirated multivalve four which was gutsy throughout its entire rev range. In the featherweight mk2 Astra, it was just hilarious, propelling the car with such complete ease and lack of effort, and responding so crisply to the throttle that it made the car feel special even when just tootling from A to B. Given its head, it was properly quick, with sub 7 second 0-60 times being quoted by several of the contemporary mags. I also remember its distinctive, rasping exhaust note, and the lovely induction hiss as the revs built.
The other thing about the XE is its incredible scope for tuning. You can get road useable, reliable 200 bhp out of it just by changing the ECU and fuelling. Caterham tweaked it to 250 bhp for the JPE version of the Seven, and in BTCC trim, it knocked out close to 300 bhp.
As for the GTE 16v itself, in several previous threads I've made no secret of my admiration of these cars. It wasn't as good as the Golf GTI of the time, but every time I drove one it made me smile. And sweat sometimes as well! Also think it still looks great, especially in red.
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>> Even in 1.7 diesel form the 205 was a nifty handler. Hassling mine throughthe B
>> road to Banbury it left Mrs B's similalry powered BX for dead.
That's why the hot Pugs of the era were so brilliant. The basic chassis of the cooking model was so well sorted, and had such terrific natural balance, that all they needed to do was play with spring rates and damping to produce a hell of a hot hatch. Peugeot also designed and built their own dampers in-house during the 80's and 90's, something few supercar manufacturers even do.
All this meant that when Peugeot created their XSI and GTI models, the chassis team weren't having to polish turds, and could spend the development time tweaking and fine tuning, rather than getting the thing to simply go round corners properly. The other good thing of course, was you could also get into the most gutless, basic model in the range, and enjoy yourself on a good bit of road.
Shame they abandoned this philosophy some years later though. A largely forgettable range these days, although the RCZ is supposed to show some of the old magic.
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...A largely forgettable range these days...
...unless you're four years old. A 407 or 3008 is ugly enough to give a small child nightmares for weeks.
Couldn't read the article. I generally missed out on the whole hot hatch thing but I do remember in 1991 hankering after a Renault 19 16v, which one reviewer credited with 'possibly the best front-wheel-drive steering ever'. It had fabulous seats too, and looked, in metallic dark blue, subtly purposeful in a way that no white-socks Escort XR3i could match.
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The Toyota Corolla GTi-16 Twin cam used to march on a bit as well ISTR (and rust!)
www.dur.ac.uk/ashley.holmes/Past%20Toys/Toyota%20Corolla%20GTI/Toyota.htm
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you'll get flamed for that.
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took a second for that one to catch!!
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Less than a second for the Pinto to catch !
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XR3I, RS Turbo, Xr2, RS Cosworth. XR4I-4X4 RS 1600I,
GTE Astra, SRI Cav mk2,
Lancia intergrali.
Golf Gti,
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I am a great Sierra / Sapphire Cosworth fan though the Sierra is too big to be a hot hatch, likewise the Cav.
Integrale is a good call though more recent cars such as the Focus MkI RS, MkII ST and RS, Megane RS, 130i, 123d etc have to be on the list.
To throw a curved ball, how about a 924/944/963 or Lotus Elite, Eclat, Excel?
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The Escort Cosworth qualified as a hot hatch ! Probably the hottest !
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The original "big turbo" Escort Cosworths were a riot to drive. Absolutely nothing below 3000 RPM, then it was like being hit up the posterior with a wrecking ball. Classic, old school turbo power. Keep it on the boil, and not a lot would stay with one. Lovely chassis too. :-)
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>>The original "big turbo" Escort Cosworths were a riot to drive. Absolutely nothing below 3000 RPM, then it was like being hit up the posterior with a wrecking ball<<
Reminds me of Big Les's Mrk 1 Lotus Escort (c73), he stuck a Shorrock Supercharger on it :-D
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>> Reminds me of Big Les's Mrk 1 Lotus Escort (c73), he stuck a Shorrock Supercharger
>> on it :-D
It was certainly eye-opening :-)
The early cars ran an enormous Garrett T34 turbo for WRC homologation purposes. Although it was laggy, it provided the scope for tuning for competition requirements. You could get almost 300 bhp with a simple chip and wastegate actuator swap. :-). Add uprated injectors, and a different MAP sensor, and 350 bhp was on the cards. All on standard internals. The road going engines were literally detuned competition units, and running at nowhere near their optimum level of tune.
After the required number of homologation cars had been produced, Ford switched to a smaller T25 turbo, which was much more linear and responsive on the road, but nowhere near as exciting.
I miss the homologation days. Without them, we'd probably never have had the road going Cosworths, Integrales, Impreza Turbos, Mitsubishi Evos etc. It was also fantastic to be able to own a road car which was genuinely mechanically related to a competition car.
Last edited by: DP on Wed 15 Jun 11 at 09:42
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>>It was certainly eye-opening :-)<<
I remember Les was always having to strip the head down due to giving the critter too much welly!
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>>I suggest these are the hottest of hot.
cars.uk.msn.com/news/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=147862690<<
Ah! - the Metro 6R4, "three-litre, 24-valve V6 developed by the Williams Grand Prix team and which put out 400bhp".
Some beasty I'll wager.
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>> The Escort Cosworth qualified as a hot hatch ! Probably the hottest !
>>
But that was basically a Sierra Cossie wearing Escort panels..
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>> I am a great Sierra / Sapphire Cosworth fan though the Sierra is too big
>> to be a hot hatch, likewise the Cav.
I agree. To me a hot hatch is Escort/Astra (or equivalent) sized or smaller.
The Megane RS is widely considered to be the best of the current hot hatches, although I haven't had the pleasure of driving one myself. Not as quick as the Focus RS, but it's supposed to handle brilliantly, and be beautifully set up.
Really like the look, and sentiment of the current Focus RS. Loads of grunt, and outrageous, in-yer-face styling. A proper old school fast Ford, and none the worse for it. :-)
Last edited by: DP on Tue 14 Jun 11 at 23:27
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I'm trying to remember a B class Nissan of the early nineties, a colleague, who died tragically young a few years ago had one, an accomplished driver, he loved this car...
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>> I'm trying to remember a B class Nissan of the early nineties
Sunny GTi-R.
www.mongooseexhausts.com/vehicles/Pulsar%20GTiR.jpg
Now THAT'S a hot hatch - you can stand back and see the pensioners' shopping car lurking under all the go-faster bits. Lots of the Jap equivalent Pulsars imported later.
The Almera GTi was supposed to be good in its day too.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Tue 14 Jun 11 at 23:52
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That was the one on a K plate, a blander looking shopping trolley you could never hope to find.....faster than a fast thing.
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Subaru Impreza Turbo.
My dad bought one in early 1995, last one off the ships for 6 months, subtle in silver.
He bought it because he had tested a Legacy Turbo estate years before when he went for an XM estate instead. When I suggested the Impreza Turbo he went for a drive in one and ordered it there and then.
I was only 15 and as far as I was concerned, it made him exceptionally cool as they werent well known then and people always wanted to know more about it.
It was quick, it sounded great and handling wasnt bad either ( improved with strut braces tho ). Its not an icon for nothing.
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RS1700 was the RWD MK3's designation.
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>> RS1700 was the RWD MK3's designation.
I didn't know that was a factory car, I stand corrected! bit.ly/lOlq97
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Its not an icon for nothing.
It's not really a hot hatch as this is a saloon car even though it's a top rally car and flippin quick, does not come in the hall of fame as can't find one with a hatchback?
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>>It's not really a hot hatch <<
My dad had a 5dr hatch. It looks a bit like an estate, but it wasnt really, didnt have a big boot, it was a sort of niche between the two.
tinyurl.com/5vpucup
My dads was almost identical to this one. Thtas not a saloon by any normal definition.
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it was a sort of niche between the two.
Go on then im going to give you that one as it's a nice car and a nice day. :-)
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>> Even in 1.7 diesel form the 205 was a nifty handler. Hassling mine throughthe B
>> road to Banbury it left Mrs B's similalry powered BX for dead.
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>> Not too keen on the petrol version but the turbo diesel would have been fantastic.
>>
>>
I tooled around in both a 115BHP 1.6 GTi and the basic XLD with the 1.7 XUD engine, the diesel had the later interior which was more solid, I loved them both equally.
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How about one of these: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Austin_Ambassador_Front.JPG
They had so much glass, the steeply sloping front and rear screens and bung in a glass sun-roof to boot. Like driving around in a greenhouse and no air-con in those days.
Edit. Sorry Crankcase, I doubt if anyone was mad enough to own two Ambassadors.
Last edited by: bathtub tom on Wed 15 Jun 11 at 12:46
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Had two of those in my time. Sigh.
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Austin Ambassador, hot hatch, hmmmm ...
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>>Austin Ambassador, hot hatch, hmmmm ...<<
But, but, but - the HLS and the VP had a 2 ltr twin carb engine .... Vrooooom!
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>> Austin Ambassador, hot hatch, hmmmm ...
>>
If we're going to get like that I was highly impressed by one of our salesman in 1977 who had a Renault 16 TX with a variety of "sporty" additions, it even had central locking!
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>> Renault 5 GT Turbo
Fast and fun, but loads of inherent problems. Chief of which was that after a few minutes idling or tootling around town, the underbonnet temperatures would climb high enough to evaporate the fuel in the lines resulting in fuel starvation and stalling. For similar reasons, they were also a complete pig to start when hot. Renault released a percolator kit which was supposed to help, but it never really cured it.
Cool little car though.
What the Max Power lot didn't destroy, they defaced and disfigured so badly that the rest are mostly completely ruined. :-(
Last edited by: DP on Wed 15 Jun 11 at 15:21
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>>Integra Type-R<<
Not really a hatchback, more a coupe, I know, my dad had one in 1999. Fantastic car though, superbly engineered and insane high-speed composure.
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Technically coupes tended to be booted ;-)
eg. the old RWD Cavalier with coupe and hatchback variants.
As remembered, however, the 'tegs were really quite sublime - a properly fettled VTEC engine with serious cylinderhead work and extra crank balancing to cope with all-day 190hp/>8000rpm action.
Fairly lightweight and perhaps one of the very best handling FWD roadcars of all time.
noisy on the motorway though - plenty of road-roar and 19mph/1000rpm in top.
Honda really messed up with the latest (last) Civic Type R - not in the same league as the Integra.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 17 Jun 11 at 01:01
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I remember a particular bend on the A24 south of Horsham, in a normal car, maybe 50 tops, in the Impreza, 70, but in the Integra, 85 if you were brave, it just stuck like glue.
My dad insured me on it when I was 20 and encouraged me to give it the beans. Just sublime, if a little hard riding, not dissimilar to my Ignis in many respects albeit faster.
It was also pretty economical just to stick another feather in its cap.
The car sounded amazing from the outside when the VTEC came in. My dad dropped me off at work once and he gave it the full beans pulling away in the first three gears.
My manager was outside and he stood watching it into the distance with a huge grin on his face, his MGF soon sported a fruity exhaust. I wonder where he got that idea from...
Last edited by: FoR on Wed 15 Jun 11 at 17:53
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.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Wed 15 Jun 11 at 15:29
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Mk 1 Golf GTi
The oft-overlooked (and rare) Fiat 127 Sport
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Lotus Sunbeam - when they used to make rear wheel drive hatchbacks.
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Lotus Sunbeam - when they used to make rear wheel drive hatchbacks
Never driven a BMW 130i but I presume it can be a hoot!
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Whilst I've enjoyed this particular trip down memory lane, provoked by this list. I don't hold much store by them. Who decides.....it's like those endless surveys you hear about on Steve Wright's programme. You could make your own list up.....which we do occasionally....Mind you can't argue with the Golf GTi - not having that in your list is like not having Queen in a list of top ten Rock/Pop groups....
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>> Lotus Sunbeam - when they used to make rear wheel drive hatchbacks.
Hmm - I made the mistake of taking one of those on in a bit of a spirited run through the Trossachs late one summer's night a couple of lifetimes ago. I was driving a then new Cavalier SRi Mk2 1800. I mistook the Sunbeam for the cooking model. There were only subtle styling differences and it was twilight.
He wiped the floor with my Cav on the straights. Ignorance or a lack of imagination allowed me to gain a bit through the bends but never enough to truly compete.
Silly I know. Fun though.
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Last summer I remember having a chat with the driver of a Moonstone Blue Sunbeam Lotus in my local filling station in Settle. Nice colour but quite ugly. Brought back memories of following the RAC Rally around northern England and the Scottish forests also from a few lifetimes ago.
Happy days...I think I had my Mk 1 Golf Gti AUM 880X at the time.
Last edited by: legacylad on Wed 15 Jun 11 at 23:08
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Greater Manchester Police used these as unmarked traffic cars when I used to be there in the late 70s...I was stopped once in Moss Side (when it was the place to be ! Not) crewed by a pair of female Officers.....
Last edited by: Pugugly on Wed 15 Jun 11 at 23:20
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When I came to Manchester in 1989 there were a few Ford Capri police cars. Were they 3100 v6s? Something like that.
www.flickr.com/photos/44340545@N05/4174590614/
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 15 Jun 11 at 23:24
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>> Were they 3100 v6s?
Either 3.0S or 2.8i, I reckon. Both V6. 3100s were much earlier.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Capri Scroll down to the MkIII section.
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The 'best' hot hatches of all time. - Alanovich
