>>Oil on the road.
>>
Perhaps the big red overhead gantry sign was a warning ?
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My old Belgian hack buddy rolled his BMW 325d after accelerating a bit too hard in the rain at a place where the A1 Paris-Lille autoroute passes under a heavily-used flight path out of Charles de Gaulle airport. After a long dry spell there would be a hell of a lot of unburned kerosene coating the road, ready to make a nice amalgam with rainwater. Obviously he didn't manage to recover it like the driver in the alarming video clip.
The road wasn't even curving much. He said the tail just went away very suddenly, then there was a long frightening blur with a few bangs and crashes in it, then he was back on his wheels, stationary, facing the wrong way on the hard shoulder. Car a write-off of course.
I think it was at that point he stopped having BMWs and got an Audi.
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And incidentally, thinking about the OP video, I have the impression that the driver caused the tank-slapper by lifting off a bit too suddenly when he felt the road becoming slippery. With FWD you have to feather it along at least until the car's going in a straight line with all the wheels pointing fore and aft. That anyway has always been my instinct, and so far it has kept me out of the scenery.
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>> And incidentally, thinking about the OP video, I have the impression that the driver caused
>> the tank-slapper by lifting off a bit too suddenly when he felt the road becoming
>> slippery. With FWD you have to feather it along at least until the car's going
>> in a straight line with all the wheels pointing fore and aft. That anyway has
>> always been my instinct, and so far it has kept me out of the scenery.
Yeah, in fact with an oversteer situation and FWD you can often drive out of it by applying more power. If you have the balls of course, lift off is a natural reaction.
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>> lift off is a natural reaction.
You only do that once when you learn to drive in't frozen North. As AC says, once things start to go pear shaped the real trick is not to try to gain or lose speed until it all settles.
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>> you can often drive out of it by applying more power.
Plus of course quick but delicate and restrained, and above all correct, steering inputs. If it doesn't come more or less naturally there won't really be enough time...
I don't really see what balls have to do with it though Zeddo. Unless driving close to the edge at speed in slippery conditions is sometimes just a sign of idiocy... Not balls, just brains.
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>> I don't really see what balls have to do with it though Zeddo. Unless driving
>> close to the edge at speed in slippery conditions is sometimes just a sign of
>> idiocy... Not balls, just brains.
Has a lot to do with with it.
90% of drivers never get into that type of incident, and therefore 90% of them of no idea of how a car behaves in those circumstances. 90% have no idea that FWD and RWD behave differently. Speed is a natural danger and the first thing that comes to mind when threatened like that is to dump it.
SO yes for your first Oversteer panic, balls are needed to mash your foot on the gas to drive it straight.
You guys tend to forget that 90% of of drivers haven't got the foggiest idea of car dynamics, never having played with them. the other 10% babble on about it on car web sites.
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>> You guys tend to forget that 90% of of drivers haven't got the
Alas, Zero, one can never forget it for long. A short drive anywhere is almost guaranteed to bring it into sharp focus within minutes if not seconds, and keep it like that until the drive ends...
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We had a shorter version of the same clip on here a few weeks back, nobody could work out what the overhead sign said, so thanks for clearing that up.
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I wouldn't have pulled over quite so soon for fear of somebody skidding into the back of the car.
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I think he thought he had a puncture.
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>> he thought he had a puncture.
Perhaps he did, and perhaps a deflating left rear tyre was all or part of the problem. We weren't told. Nevertheless the same general principles of car control would apply: in the event of oversteer with fwd, maintain or slightly increase power in a measured fashion and concentrate on quick and fine steering correction until it is safe to decelerate gently.
I emphasise quick and fine steering inputs because the driver in the video reacted late, with the need for a bigger steering deflection which he nevertheless managed to overdo, resulting in oversteer in the other direction... not too brilliant really.
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>> I emphasise quick and fine steering inputs because the driver in the video reacted late,
>> with the need for a bigger steering deflection which he nevertheless managed to overdo, resulting
>> in oversteer in the other direction... not too brilliant really.
And that is where I fall flat. I have quick and right reactions but alway wind on too much opposite lock on the first correction, always making it a tad worse, I know it no tho and usually avoid it.
given tho most oversteer situations I get into are self provoked gives you a prepared edge,.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 28 Jun 11 at 19:55
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I think when he got back into the car he said nothing wrong.
His reactions where quick,maybe a bit to fast in the corner.
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>> given tho most oversteer situations I get into are self provoked gives you a prepared
>> edge,.
>>
Doesn't the Mitsubishi have ESC, ABS, EBD, and EBA to sort it out for you? The Ceed has.:-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 28 Jun 11 at 20:26
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No - thats why I know that ABS, EBD, and EBA are useless to you in an oversteer situation. The last pedal you want to touch is the brake pedal.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 28 Jun 11 at 20:30
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Within reason the ESC would sort it without touching the brakes, apparently it adjusts the throttle, (traction control), and brakes individual wheels. (in theory).
Not something I intend testing. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 28 Jun 11 at 20:40
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In theory, ESC should stop you getting into that situation, so in theory you would never know it happened.
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I think I would know if the car braked a wheel.
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Only if the warning light flashed or the power dropped, otherwise you wouldn't know.
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OOPS hit the filter. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 28 Jun 11 at 21:06
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See! you cant even drive that properly!
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I had an experience like in the video in my first car, a Nova, on a curved sliproad near Runcorn, felt the back end go sideways and my instinct was of course to hit the brakes, resulting in a spin and coming to rest when one of the back wheels hit the curb. Luckily the only damage was my pride and I viewed it as a learning experiance.
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Skid pan helps to sort out inputs and reactions, but I'd imagine a circuit with tuition would help at higher speeds. Have the first, but not the second element. Wonder how many drivers of really powerful cars (300hp upwards say) have any extra tuition at all?
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>> Skid pan helps to sort out inputs and reactions, but I'd imagine a circuit with
>> tuition would help at higher speeds. Have the first, but not the second element. Wonder
>> how many drivers of really powerful cars (300hp upwards say) have any extra tuition at
>> all?
I have done a few drive and survive courses, one where we were taught to brake and change direction quickly using both ABS and non ABS on dry and greasy surfaces, along with skid pan training.
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Were you on a fag break when they did the "bus avoidance" bit?
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Funnily enough, it was after the Bus incident.
No idea why.
Fags again Humph? you really are sweating.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 28 Jun 11 at 21:42
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I like your comments Zero you are funny:)
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>> In theory, ESC should stop you getting into that situation,
In practice, buying the cheapest tyres helps, you develop swift reactions, like instant buttock clenching control.
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"in the event of oversteer with fwd, maintain or slightly increase power in a measured fashion and concentrate on quick and fine steering correction until it is safe to decelerate gently.
I emphasise quick and fine steering inputs because the driver in the video reacted late, with the need for a bigger steering deflection which he nevertheless managed to overdo, resulting in oversteer in the other direction... not too brilliant really. "
OK, I watched this video before reading your (or anyone else's) comments and my reaction was "bloomin' heck he did well there to get out of that without hitting/damaging anything or anyone else".
It's all very well to criticise after watching a video, but I would suggest that 99.9% of drivers would not have come out of that without a serious accident.
"maintain or slightly increase power in a measured fashion and concentrate on quick and fine steering correction until it is safe to decelerate gently" Oh yeah? Did he have time to think of all that and act upon it? And then you say "the driver in the video reacted late," - have you measured his reaction time? How many fractions of a second was his "late reaction"?
"the need for a bigger steering deflection which he nevertheless managed to overdo, resulting in oversteer in the other direction... not too brilliant really. "
Come on AC, be reasonable - he acted instinctively, he did what appears to be "the right thing" in that no-one was hurt, or even his car damaged.
Yes, I know you would say "but they could have been" but this guy isn't a professional rally driver used to driving at high speed on ice roads - he was driving along a motorway, do you drive along motorways expecting that to happen and be ready at any second to implement your front wheel drive oversteer compensation reactions?
On the other hand, perhaps I'm just a carp driver.
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I know what you mean Phil but to be fair first class tuition is available to everyone for very fair prices, it's also really enjoyable so I don't understand why more people don't do it. Suppose it's the idea that once you've got your licence that's it, no further effort necessary.
modern ESP is ultra effective, with ESP off you can get the octy sideways from silly low speeds (just over 35mph is enough for a small slide), but with ESP on, I can't get more than a very slight movement even at 60.
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"first class tuition is available to everyone for very fair prices...it's also really enjoyable"
I agree, but then having the tuition and putting it into practice in a situation like that in the video is a different matter. Needs lots of repetition so that it becomes instinctive - the odd lesson doesn't do that. Speaking personally, I know at least one person who has had some excellent tuition but has still failed exams!
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I agree with you on this one Phill.He did very well to get out of the situation,most of us would have come a cropper as the saying goes.
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>> Oh yeah? Did he have time to think of all that and act upon it? And then you say "the driver in the video reacted late," - have you measured his reaction time? How many fractions of a second was his "late reaction"?
No, I haven't measured it, but it looked to me like a couple of seconds before any correction at the wheel. By that time the slip angle was enormous and the driver took a big clumsy swing and overdid it. As you say, he was damn lucky to get away with being that much out of shape, and then overcorrecting in panic, at a considerable speed. He should consider whether he is safe to drive at that speed. A good driver would have reacted much sooner - a second and a half sooner - and the situation wouldn't have reached such an embarrassing level of untidiness.
Anyone can come to grief in a moment of inattention. But moments of inattention are a bad idea at 90 or 100mph.
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Correction on the Motorway at 90mph - henry k
