We collected our new caravan at the weekend and noticed that the combination didn't sit as level as it did with the old one.
Upon investigation it appears that the noseweight of the van is slightly heavier than the old one.
This in itself isn't a problem but we both hate to see ill matched outfits on the road that have a lower (or higher) hitch point at the tow bar.
After a lot of parking in different spots to make sure we were on the level it appeared that the CRV was sitting slightly lower on the o/side rear end as well.
A visit to our trusty indie last night soon diagnosed the problem...a broken rear spring.
The question is though, while we're having a pair of coil springs fitted is there anything else we can do to improve the rear end that would make it sit level again?
There was very little time to Google last night, but googling for heavy duty springs brought up all sorts of boy racer raised rear suspension:)
Are spring assistors a worthwhile addition?
From my old days around the motor trade I remember Monroe, Armstrong and Koni but that was for shock absorbers.
We're still well within the towing limit for the CRV at 87%, but the with the old van we were 78%. The optimum is 85% and no more than 100%, so it tows it well but looks a little wrong when looked at with a critical eye.
Any suggestions?
Pat
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The rear end of the Octy is very softly sprung, and it has a fairly big boot. When we went camping, the back end hunkered right down and it ruined the ride a bit. Certainly didn't handle as well.
Ended up with a pair of Grayston spring assisters. They're basically just hard rubber blocks that fit into the springs. Takes ~10-15 mins per side inc. jacking up. No need to remove the wheel on this car.
goo.gl/qJVUl
Bought mine from the local caravan specialists, didn't even have to order them in, they had them in stock. £27 for the pair. They do the job pretty well, the suspension does still drop but not by as much, and there is still some spring left instead of sitting close to the bump stops.
Last edited by: Skoda on Tue 19 Jul 11 at 05:32
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The problem with the spring assisters that sit within the coils is that while they will stiffen the spring they place an extra load on the remaining coils and can lead to premature breakage.
It seems the old style Aeon, Ball-ans etc. that acted as an additional long bump stop are no longer available. I found they were most effective during my clothes-peg selling days.
I'd suggest uprated, springs are the way to go as you've got to replace one.
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Given that you drive the car without a caravan most of the time, I would leave the suspension as standard, for comfort and road holding.
As the new van is well within the optimum weight and drives well I would forget the aesthetic qualites, and just make sure the tow car is fully A1 to original spec.
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The neatest solution would be to see if there's a Nivomat damper available for this rear axle - nivomat dapers are a self containes self levelling system, and they take the energy to pump themselves up from the suspension motion itself.
Failing that, you may find that dampers with a levelling function - perhaps via being inflated from a remote mounted Schrader valve - are an option. This kind of system was fitted to Vauxhall estate cars.
Steel suspensions are not very well suited to axles where the load changes significantly - they end up being designed to cope with the maximum load, and then giving poor ride when empty (as I'm sure you'll know!)
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Our 2001 Mondeo Estate had rear shocks (standard on the Ghia X I think) with a similar system to the Nivomat and I have to say it gave a very effective result.
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>> This kind of system was fitted to Vauxhall estate cars.
It was also fitted to some of their high spec hatches and saloons as well. I remember my Mk2 & Mk3 Cavalier CD having rear air adjustable shocks.
I had to adjust the handbrake cable on one of the cars. Instead of getting out the jack I just inflated the rear suspension to the max (70 psi, IIRC. The lowest pressure was 12psi) and then shoved the axle stands underneath while I adjusted the tensioner on the rear suspension arm.
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>> The problem with the spring assisters that sit within the coils is that while they
>> will stiffen the spring they place an extra load on the remaining coils and can
>> lead to premature breakage.
>>
I dunno bt, they've done well on a 2003 Nissan primera that tows a big van about Europe every year more or less. If one of its springs broke now id be more inclined to think corrosion than stress.
The springs in mine change behaviour slightly with the assisters in - high speed uneven surfaces aren't very good but otherwise they feel very similar when loaded up to oem with a light load in the boot. You loose the wallowy feel.
Last edited by: Skoda on Tue 19 Jul 11 at 17:19
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Pat, I hesitate to advise you on towing, but you shouldn’t have a problem when the springs are replaced provided you keep within the noseweight allowance, which might mean adjusting the loading of the caravan. The limit IIRC for the pre-2005 model year is only 60Kg (but check) and 100Kg for 2005MY on. If you do want to use spring assisters then that will tend to improve stability by reducing compliance, even though it shouldn’t be necessary if you are within the noseweight. I do recall that my 2002 was softer on the rear suspension than the 2005.
Nose down is not a problem per se. Better than nose up.
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Thanks for all the advice above which is being relayed by phone to Mr pda!
Our indie agrees with Zero and has advised a new pair of springs at £70 +£120 fitting, then if it doesn't improve how it sits we can fit spring assisters afterwards.
Manatee, I have been looking into the noseweight of the Olympus 464 and it is notoriously heavy with the water heater now being fitted under the front seats, so I do think we need to experiment with where we stow everything for travelling.
Number_cruncher, I love your solution and it would be the preferred solution but having just bought the caravan, it's been an expensive weekend so it will have to wait for a few weeks!
I am sure though that it will irritate both of us so much if it isn't running level, that we'll end up fitting them in the end.
It's like pulling a badly loaded artic trailer....doesn't make a lot of difference to the handling but makes you ashamed to be seen driving it:)
Pat
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How about a few extra psi in the rear tyres when towing?
The CRV doesn't have stupidly low profiles, so the sidewalls may be compressing a bit.
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Offer a couple of fat people a free holiday on condition they sit at the back of the van and buy their own chips.
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The luck lottery winners - apparently they're only hobby is eating takeaways, i have to say, in a very nice way - it shows.
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Oh right. Must've missed that. Amazing what retired people know.
:-)
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"The lucky lottery winners"
I reckon the UK cake and pie industry is in for an injection of about £160m over the next decade.
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They'll be eating something uniquely Scottish - probably fried in some sort of batter......the local pizza place in Falkirk is now on the Footsie...
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I've had to google this. Jeez they are big.
Anyway, ideal for Pat's caravan problem and they can afford the chips.
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Tue 19 Jul 11 at 19:32
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I've written them a begging letter.
Asking them not to appear on telly again.
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What, you want her all to yourself? ( wobble wobble...)
:-))
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Does the rear of he car actually go down, or is it just that the ride height of the van is lower? I'm sure you know, but don't be tempted to load stuff in the rear (pie eating lottery winners or otherwise!) to counteract the nose weight. Unless you like pendulums and snaking....
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Get the noseweight right, and new springs, and there's no reason the car should be any lower than before. If the towball is at the correct height (as it should be if the springs are changed, and GVW and axle weights aren't exceeded) then any nose-downess is because the caravan hitch is too "high" when the 'van is level. No reason why it should be though.
Towball centre should be 350-420mm above the ground when the car is laden.
Just a thought for Pat - it's a new caravan? The caravan suspension is likely to settle a bit, which will tend to level things up.
At least it isn't a twin axle, which would make un-levelness more of a problem.
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Thanks Manatee
I would imagine the current springs on the CRV have done 114,000 miles so a new set should help a lot!
It is a new van and has proper suspension, so that may be a bit to do with it too.
We'll measure the tow ball height after the new springs have been fitted on Friday and I think it's time to load the awning in the back of the car instead of over the axle in the van.
No chance of loading weight in the back to counterbalance it from a pair of lorry drivers! Too many bad experiences of a 44' badly loaded trailer making an attempt do a 'tail wagging the dog' impression:)
To the fattists on here, cuddly is better than thin and scrawny....
...even if you do prefer to call it athletic and healthy.
Pat
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>>It is a new van and has proper suspension
As in metal springs? Our modest effort has an Al-Ko rubber torsion axle, and they definitely settle a bit.
I see the Olympus has proper dampers? Ours does, but until relatively recently that was unusual on UK caravans. And the Al-Ko trailer control system?
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Yes, it has proper dampers and the trailer control system.
We've also had the Truma motor mover swapped over from the Ranger, which will of course, add to the weight in front of the axle.
Pat
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Honda CR-V II - Rear Suspension - Skoda
