As I mentioned previously, daughter is now learning to drive. She has just turned 17 and the "master plan" was, once she had passed her test, maybe for her 18th birthday we would get her a car. Realistically looking at sub £2000 cars (she has always wanted a Clio).
However, there is a chance that I may be able to purchase a 4 year old Chevrolet Matiz, one elderly lady owner, for a good price.
Now these cars have never appealed to me, hairdryers on wheels - think its 800cc or so. Definitely no street cred, especially for a 17 year old girl.
So does that make it an ideal car then for her?? I am assuming that 800cc will mean cheapest possible insurance though I will check that out.
Thoughts? Should I wait until she has passed her test and look for a Clio?
There is something that appeals about getting a new driver a functional (and that is all) car.
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Quote for daughter to insure the Matiz in her own name, fully comp, with Admiral multi car is £553.76 on a 5000 mile policy.
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Oh heck, confession time, i quite like them.
Simple no nonsense car and no pretense other wise, narrow, easy and quite nice to drive, easiest parking of them all, fantastic all round visibility, good economy.
It's quite capable of keeping up with normal town and suburb traffic, and will bowl along with all the others on the open road if you give it some welly.
Whether you can persuade her to like it is another question only you can answer, i tried in vain to get my daughter in an original Micra.
I'm sure i've read somewhere that front disc/bearing/CV boot replacement is an awkward job, hopefully i've misunderstood.
The simple driveability, chuckability (on good tyres mind) and easy manoeuvering of my daughters first car, Pug 106 she still misses, faults and all she loved it...didn't stop her thrashing it to destruction mind.
edit, that's a very good quote for insurance, did you try Clio's and the like for comparison?
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Sun 2 Oct 11 at 12:58
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For a 17 year old I would be very concerned about safety. It only got two and a half stars, a post 2000 Clio or Corsa will have four stars.
www.euroncap.com/tests/chevrolet_matiz_2005/233.aspx
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The biggest safety factor is not hitting anything. A sense of invulnerability is not an aid to that. And a rust-free 4 year old car will be a lot better than all those rotting Corsas.
I know I'm being a bit glib. We naturally want our children to be protected as well as possible. My daughter had a Ka, probably on a par with the Matiz for crashworthiness, though the options were narrower in 1999. Son had a Panda like yours - to be honest they look quite lightly built to me, whatever the rating.
Last weekend Mrs Dugong and I did about 150 miles in a 58 year old XK120 with no seat belts (or roof for that matter). Makes you think!
Last edited by: Manatee on Sun 2 Oct 11 at 13:58
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A good little car, ideal for its intended use.
Pretending for a moment I know something about 17-year-old girls, the most important question is will she warm to it?
If so, she will enjoy it, look after it, and be far more likely to drive it carefully and safely.
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I read the title and thought for one blissful moment that Bobby had found something he preferred to that brown Citroën monstrosity. No such luck.
}:---(
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After our 17 year old Peugeot 106 was crashed last year (no names.. ) we bought a 2005 Matiz 1.0.
It has performed flawlessly - the only faults being the original battery showing tiredness this year - £44 and one handbrake cable rusty £39.
Very small turning circle - under 6 metres, easy to park. Economical. Reasonably comfortable. cheap tyres/spares /insurance. Narrow so fits into tight spaces.
Bit bouncy over potholes/speedhamps. Not quiet at 70mph on motorways. Small boot but rear seats fold down.
Ideal cheap transport..
I you worry about image or wood on dashboards it is not for you. If you want to corner fast, not for you.
Quite like it..
Easy to maintain, on-line manuals/owners club can answer all queries.
Good cheap mtoring without complications (ours even has aircon - which works)
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Ah Madf, handy to know you've got one.
Is there something peculiar about the front hub arrangement please, are the discs fitted from inside like some Hyundai's? or some other awkward bit, or have you not yet had to delve into it's workings too much.
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Bobby please don't think I'm getting at you, I really am not but I would love to pass my opinion on this one:)
Your daughter should (and I'm sure she will be) so grateful to get a set of wheels provided for her.
It may not be her first choice but it will provide the means for her to work towards getting her first choice by making some effort of her own.
That will give her the best grounding she could ever have.
Pat
Last edited by: pda on Sun 2 Oct 11 at 15:57
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I thought I hated them. Then I had one as a hire car in Naples/Sorento/Amalfi. I caned it and abused it dreadfully up and down the hills, one hill start so steep it blew clutch smoke at me in protest but carried on despite this.
It earned deep respect and was fun to drive, possibly the most ideal city car i know.
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I had one on hire a couple of years ago, I don't remember too much about it except that I had no complaints. I'd have bit your hand off for one when I was seventeen!
Doesn't seem right though, does it? Chevrolet summons up images of V8s, cowboy boots and Marlboros. The little Matiz is more roll ups and Clarks shoes.
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Had a Daewoo badged version for a weekend a few years ago. Like Zero, I found it pleasantly surprising . Chuckable, willing and surprisingly enjoyable to drive.
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>> Doesn't seem right though, does it? Chevrolet summons up images of V8s, cowboy boots and
>> Marlboros. The little Matiz is more roll ups and Clarks shoes.
>>
That's just the British view, aided and abetted by country music to a large degree. Chevrolet (even the iconic 57 Belair) was always the American Cortina, a working man's car. The company's put out plenty of carp over the years, as has GM in general if you'll forgive the pun. Corvettes of course were a different animal.
I must admit that I initially shuddered when I came across the news of the re-badging exercise, but with hindsight it's kind of appropriate.
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>>Bobby please don't think I'm getting at you, I really am not but I would love to pass my opinion on this one:)
Pat, why would I think you were getting at me??? I asked opinions so therefore I welcome them!
Agree with everything you say.
I must admit, I have always hated these wee things but when I look through a different set of eyes I see a car that is cheap to insure, good economy and ideal for a new driver due to its size. It may well also be ideal for daughter as she is only 5'2" so might actually be a better driving position than some.
Its not going to attract attention from the wrong sorts, and I don't see her having a sudden urge to bling it. It really does tick a lot of boxes for a first car doesn't it?
If I did get it, son will be learning to drive in 4 years time so if the car survived till then, it could be put to more use again. And it may be a huge reality check for son who thinks the world is full of Ferraris and Bugattis.
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>> Ah Madf, handy to know you've got one.
>>
>> Is there something peculiar about the front hub arrangement please, are the discs fitted from
>> inside like some Hyundai's? or some other awkward bit, or have you not yet had
>> to delve into it's workings too much.
>>
Front disks iintegral with hubs.
New disks = new bearings a PRESS jobbie.
Do not buy a Matiz needing new front disks...or knock £200 off price..
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>> Front disks iintegral with hubs.
>> New disks = new bearings a PRESS jobbie.
>> Do not buy a Matiz needing new front disks...or knock £200 off price..
>>
Much obliged to me learned friend.
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madf, thanks for that feedback.
This one is an 800cc job, no air con but does have CD and power steering. Probably able to either get an aux cable for the cd player or would be able to switch it over to accept the all important ipod.
Would obviously be used for learner driving to start with and once she has passed, I can't see there being much long journeys, esp motorways.
Acceleration figures look in the 16s for a 0-60 which is slow enough to prevent any traffic light races but hopefully fast enough to get out of any trouble. Just!
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WDB
OK the brown colour might not be my first choice.........
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This is a totally unscientific observation. Disregard it by all means. It proves very little. But living nearby and knowing the road well and reading the reports and seeing the tyre marks and hedge/wall damage afterwards, I can envisage the circumstances insofar as there was a couple driving their Matiz on the correct side of the road and they were hit, head on, by a car coming the other way, for whatever reason. They both died in the Matiz - the other driver didn't. That proves absolutely nothing, except I'd have sooner been in the other car - not the Matiz, on that occasion. The following day I saw one in a car park and, looking purely at the size of it and the amount of metal/plastic in front of the occupants, decided I'd try never to have to own one. And the NCAP figures I looked at subsequently did nothing to help. But, there are loads about and they're cheap and economical....who am I to criticize? The slightly bigger Hyundai i10 has much better safety ratings and they're not expensive. When I was at work I sometimes encountered Metro's in RT accidents (or RT collisions, as I believe we call them now) - and had similar thoughts about them as I have about the Matiz, having seen, at close quarters, the damage and injuries. (In those earlier days Astras and, surprisingly, Skodas, seemed to fare quite well in the small car bracket).
But I say again, these are just my own observations and I offer them for your consideration when deciding what to get.
link to the article now removed at the kb's request
Last edited by: R.P. on Mon 3 Oct 11 at 21:04
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kb, good information, thought provoking.
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...But I say again, these are just my own observations and I offer them for your consideration when deciding what to get...
Very fairly put.
I think the age of the dead person makes the type of car largely irrelevant.
A 91-year-old is likely to be frail in all manner of ways.
One observation, I've reported on countless fatal RTCs and so often it's a passenger that dies, very rarely the driver.
In this one, the impact was 'offside to offside', which you might think would hurt the driver more.
It can't be just having a steering wheel to hang onto, can it?
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>>For a 17 year old I would be very concerned about safety. It only got two and a half stars, a post 2000 Clio or Corsa will have four stars.
Rattle, that is very interesting and I would like to hear other parents opinions on this.
I am of the age where we went on holiday to Europe with 3 in the back seat of the Cortina Estate and 2 in the boot. All without belts etc etc
I fully understand re the benefits of NCAP. So would I be a "bad" parent if I got a car with only 2 1/2 stars? If she has a crash in that, well she may come off second best.
But what if she got knocked down whilst walking, or fell off a broken kerb, or got in with a bad crowd etc?
These are all risks so do you try and minimise as many as possible, or do you go with the attitude of you can't wrap them in cotton wool??
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I have known of people dying in an RTA where the car was almost undamaged.
I have also known of people being cut out of unrecognisable lumps of scrap metal, that had once been a car, without much more than a scratch.
Basically, I believe that its the luck of the draw what happens once an accident starts to happen.
That said, the strength of the passenger cell will help one's chances in an accident, but the best option is not to have an accident in the first place.....
Teach your children to drive within their (and their cars) ability's, to understand risk assessment, never drink and drive, and ignore their friends when being told to go outside the remit of the above......
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Good advice, swiss tony. But what struck me in regard to the fatal collision I referred to, was that there we had an elderly couple in the front of their own small car, minding their own business and very unlikely going too fast (at 91 in a Matiz remember) on the right side of the road.... and something came round, what is, a gentle bend, on the wrong side of the road, and knocked them senseless - and they died. If the car had been better able to withstand that impact, they MIGHT have lived. That's all I'm saying. They could have done NOTHING themselves to avoid it. Wrong place, wrong time and in my opinion, wrong car.
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>> Good advice, swiss tony. But what struck me in regard to the fatal collision I
>> referred to, was that there we had an elderly couple in the front of their
>> own small car, minding their own business and very unlikely going too fast (at 91
>> in a Matiz remember) on the right side of the road.... and something came round,
>> what is, a gentle bend, on the wrong side of the road, and knocked them
>> senseless - and they died. If the car had been better able to withstand that
>> impact, they MIGHT have lived. That's all I'm saying. They could have done NOTHING themselves to avoid it. Wrong place, wrong time and in my opinion, wrong car.
>>
Reread the report - there are a few things you haven't got quite right, which may, or may not be important.
1/ The man who died, was not the driver, nor was his wife. Both were being driven by a third person.
2/ He was driven to hospital by ambulance, the other two arrived at hospital; by air.
I would however agree with part of your final comment, wrong place, wrong time.
Wrong car? that would be down to the crash investigation team to decide.
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Swiss tony. Sorry, the lady, aged 76 was driving, see below from a later report, but later died, as was further reported locally here later on (won't keep re-posting subsequent press reports). There was no third person in the car, and, as originally indicated, the gentleman died shortly after the collision.
Yes, the results of the investigation will reveal all. As I said initially, I wasn't offering scientific evidence myself, just something for bobby g to add to his list of considerations. And predictably it's gone further and bathtub tom has said what he said and mooted that she only wants something to pass her test in - which is right......and I repeat I'm just making observations which, I agree, are probably coloured somewhat by having had to dig people out of vehicles after they've crashed for twenty something years and having made mental notes along the way. How about, having made my couple of points here, I leave it at that?
Thanks for replies.
snip'd at OP's request.
Last edited by: R.P. on Tue 4 Oct 11 at 15:51
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>>edit, that's a very good quote for insurance, did you try Clio's and the like for comparison
Yeah, it was over £100 cheaper than the Clio.
Done a bit more research and its a Group 1 car, with £30 road tax. Really won't get any cheaper than that!
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The NCAP test didn't look too bad, and the low rating may have been if it didn't have ABS or twin airbags etc. Does this car have ABS? I if not then some proper lessons in how to stop a car without ABS safely may be in order.
I've personally never once used the ABS on my Panda but one day it may just make the difference between having a crash or not.
The other thing is to consider is HonestJohn, he claims the Matiz falls to pieces after three years old but I have no idea how accurate he is.
I am not sure how valid the comment about an older Corsa or Clio being rusty is valid, as they were all galvanised (assuming we are talking about the Corsa C and Clio MK2).
I also agree she needs something a bit uncool, then she has something to aspire to :D
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>>I am not sure how valid the comment about an older Corsa or Clio being rusty is valid
I'm sure you're right Rattle. Truth to tell, I was thinking of the Novas that used to be the banger of choice for young lads.
I believe ABS has been compulsory in the EU on cars manufactured from sometime in 2004.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sun 2 Oct 11 at 22:29
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Rattle. You may have thought the results didn't look too bad but, with three stars, reduced by having the third crossed through, I wouldn't have agreed with you - but you must have looked and seen the video and read the report, so you must have made your decision based on something, I suppose.
Quote.......
Euro NCAP decided to ‘strike-through’ the third star of the Matiz’s result, because it considered there was an unacceptably high risk of life-threatening injury to the chest in side-impact trials.
Front-impact results were little better, with injury-causing structures found in the steering column and ignition barrel. There was also a risk of leg injuries from other parts, including the fascia.
Did you not look to see whether the star reduction was due to an absence of airbags etc , as you thought it might when looking at the NCAP results? The test for 2005 shows two front bags fitted.
Last edited by: kb on Sun 2 Oct 11 at 22:48
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If we took serious notice of this thread we'd all be dumping our motors for the safest, latest model and probably doing ourselves serious injury in roll-over accidents in 4WD SUVs.
The kid only wants a car to learn to drive!
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It is about balanced risks though, my car is only 3 star but it didn't have ABS or a passenger airbag when tested and that hurt the results.
The balance is between choosing something which is a complete death trap such as the Rover 100 or something very safe like a modern Polo.
The Matiz scored quite well considering its a tiny car and is a 12+ year old design. I think it really comes down to local road conditions and type of driving too. Most my driving is under 30mph so safety was not a major issue, however if I was on the motorways all the time I would want something bigger.
When she passes mostly likely she will want to keep it. Oh and when she passes the insurance will go up a lot.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Sun 2 Oct 11 at 23:11
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>>Oh and when she passes the insurance will go up a lot.
True, just ran another quote assuming passed her test in a few months and price is now £747.94, an increase of nearly £200 !
mmmm.....
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One of the car magazines refused to road test the Matiz as they thought it was unsafe. Not a car I'd have let one of my kids own.
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This is starting to get silly.
Small car head on smash with large car, result obvious.
Large car head on smash with 2.7 ton Landcruiser, result obvious.
Landcruiser head on smash with 44 ton artic, result obvious.
I'm going to stop leaving the house soon with worry.
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>> One of the car magazines refused to road test the Matiz as they thought it
>> was unsafe. Not a car I'd have let one of my kids own.
Not really a car magazine then. More the monthly journal of the Society for Motoring Phobics. Or possibly Sneerers - I bet they'd have tested the seatbeltless XK120 I was lent a couple of weeks ago if they'd had the chance.
The key safety factor is the nut behind the wheel. Despite Alanovic's Private-Fraser-like prognotications of imminent disaster, I've yet to find myself bouncing down the road in a 4x4 on its roof.
Perspective is hard to hang on to though when you're choosing a car for your child. I remember that.
It was a lot easier before they started trying to measure these things. Yes, there's always "other people" to worry about, but the key thing is the driver's temperament and attitude.
Last edited by: Manatee on Mon 3 Oct 11 at 06:59
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Surely in these days extreme protection from any danger by health & safety we all have a duty to make our loved ones aware of dangers?
I read the other day where a parent was fitting winter tyres on a vehicle for a novice driver and couldn't help thinking that I wouldn't have done that.
Some will call it being cruel to be kind, others will see it as irresponsible of me but I would be worried that a new driver would feel protected from any danger with a safety net of winter tyres, high ratings and numerous airbags around them, and drive accordingly badly for the road conditions.
I've always found that the only way to gain experience while driving is to push myself and the vehicle, very carefully until I know where the boundaries are.
(Yes, I know a loaded artic will do 84MPH down Beattock using this theory!)
New drivers need the experience of icy roads, gentle braking or fairy feet as we call them, just as they need to know that their first car is something to treasure and to look after.
Explain the safety rating to her....explain how to drive accordingly!
Pat
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I wonder if there are any figures on how many Matiz owners haven't been killed or injured in RTA's?
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Our 2005 Matiz has twin airbags.
Anyone driving a 10 year old car may well have rust degradation of the safety cell..
Most Matiz I see are driven around town or slow country roads..
A new Hyundai costs £5k plus A good s/h Matiz is under £2k...
Last edited by: madf on Mon 3 Oct 11 at 09:48
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...Yes, I know a loaded artic will do 84MPH down Beattock using this theory!)...
That's going some.
Much as I know you know how to handle a lorry, I think I'd be reaching for the seatbelt if I was in the passenger seat.
Back on topic, the safety score of the Matiz is irrelevant.
Far more important for Ms Bobby to be properly trained and be allowed to gather appropriate motoring experience.
All the car needs to be is properly maintained.
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as a parent we try to do the utmost to keep our children as safe as we can. we spend many many sleepless nights worrying about what may become of them.
I could never in good conscience put my children into a car like the Matiz.
when my boys are old enough in a few yrs i wont allow them anything less than a 5star car, ok i know the insurance may be much higher but i dont care. what is a few grand extra as opposed to a dead or injured child. if you are unable to find the extra money then put the idea away for a few years until the insurance gets cheaper or you are able to add more money to the pot.
we may have had to put up with bad cars when we were children but we know better now don't we.
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My advice to my children will be to wait until they need a car to get somewhere regularly, preferably work. Sixth formers don't need a car, nor should students, and parents who insist on providing one (not aiming this personally at anyone here, who will know their own specific circumstances) the moment their offspring turn seventeen are blighting neighbourhoods that were designed for one car per household, not for one per inhabitant.
More seriously, I'd argue, they're putting young lives at risk by taking away the serious thought and the gradual learning process that should go into acquiring your own car and learning to drive it regularly. If a car is just another bauble provided by The Parents, you're more inclined to race it around and regard a prang as a minor hazard and/or rite of passage. In other words, true safety has little to do with the car and much more to do with the attitude of the driver, and the right attitude is more likely to come with time and patience than with getting the whole thing on a plate on a significant birthday.
And, as a final aside, what did these children who get a car the moment they're legally old enough get on their sixteenth birthday?
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...what did these children who get a car the moment they're legally old enough get on their sixteenth birthday?...
In my case, an old Raleigh moped.
It was automatic, if you can call a contraption driven by a fanbelt automatic.
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I've had a couple of those things Iffy.
The first belonged to a friend of the wife. She wouldn't turn off the fuel tap, which resulted in the carb forever gumming up with oil, which would prevent it from starting. Guess who was called on to sort it out each time. IIRC she gave it to me in the end as she got so fed up with it. I lived in Luton at the time, the town sits in a North/South valley and I lived on the East side. It was far preferable to my cycle ride home, up the hill. A work colleague clocked me at 28 MPH downhill, flat out on it one morning. It had bike front forks and calliper brakes, a rigid rear end, fixed gearing and no speedo required.
I acquired another, a Mobylette, off another work colleague. That had a recurring problem that took me ages to sort out. It had suspension both ends and CVT. The engine was on a spring to maintain drive belt tension as the belt moved up and down the pulley. I, erm, tweaked that one and was clocked by someone who reckoned I was doing 45 MPH on it. I don't think the measurement was very accurate even though it was downhill with a tail wind.
Wonderful, crazy days. ;>)
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>>I could never in good conscience put my children into a car like the Matiz.
when my boys are old enough in a few yrs i wont allow them anything less than a 5star car
I presume you don't believe that every new driver should learn on two wheels first, before they're let loose in a ton of metal to cause murder and mayhem?
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I wonder also whether there are parallels to be drawn between interpreting NCAP ratings and fuel economy, insofar as we all 'know' that manufactures engineer cars to deliver good economy / emissions under test conditions; conditions that mean that very few people actually get the claimed economy, and some exceed it.
Presumably the same is true to a greater or lesser extend when engineering a car to hit NCAP standards? The biggest contributor to safety has to be the driver surely?
I've been 'unlucky' enough to have been in 3 accidents that have resulted in the car being written off. The first, aged 18, was 100% driver error - too much speed. That resulted in the car being rolled - not, AFAIK, an NCAP test. The other two were as a result of being rear-ended; once on the A404M and once on the A3. Again, I don't think this is part of the NCAP testing either, though a lower speed 'whiplash' test seems to be. So in reality a 5 star car might not have helped me at all, and might have been worse than a lower starred car...
Also, perhaps incorrectly, but I'd still assume that a Chinese engineered 5 star car (if there was such a thing) would be less safe than a 5 star Mercedes. Prejudice, cynicism, experience or just a 'feeling'? Eitherway, it'd definitely influnce my view...
Peter
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>> when my boys are old enough in a few yrs i wont allow them anything
>> less than a 5star car, ok i know the insurance may be much higher but
>> i dont care. what is a few grand extra as opposed to a dead or
>> injured child.
teach the little sods to drive properly, there is a valid option
>> if you are unable to find the extra money then put the idea
>> away for a few years until the insurance gets cheaper or you are able to
>> add more money to the pot.*
>>
>> we may have had to put up with bad cars when we were children but
>> we know better now don't we.
No. Sometimes people don't have the money. If your kids ability to earn depends on making them mobile, getting work experience to give them an edge, that's what you do.
*No wonder kids grown up demanding stuff an with no idea of risk with parental ides like that about.
>>
>>
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When our girls need cars over the next few years we'll buy them the best compromise of safety/economy that's appropriate. We had anticipated eldest having one for uni but unless circumstances change we now realise far better to leave it until she's graduated.
Remember the way of hard knocks isn't the only way... and often other people run into you so it's not all about the youngsters driver training and skills.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Mon 3 Oct 11 at 12:49
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>> teach the little sods to drive properly, there is a valid option
>>
How would all the training in the world avoid this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXUGSQOY6BE . Fancy that in a Matiz?
Or this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtaW8iiMy-M&feature=related
Young lads, particulalrly, genuinely think they can avoid all accidents.
Last edited by: Bill Payer on Mon 3 Oct 11 at 21:45
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>> >> teach the little sods to drive properly, there is a valid option
>> >>
>> How would all the training in the world avoid this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXUGSQOY6BE . Fancy that in
>> a Matiz?
Maybe... at 6 seconds you can clearly see a car on the wrong side of the road, at that point I would most likely have backed of the throttle.
The impact happened at 9 seconds, backing off may have made the impact less severe.
BTW I did see the car 1st time I watched the video, and expected to hear the engine note drop, which it didn't.....
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>> Maybe... at 6 seconds you can clearly see a car on the wrong side of
>> the road, at that point I would most likely have backed of the throttle.
>> The impact happened at 9 seconds, backing off may have made the impact less severe.
>>
I tell you what most youngsters do, as we live in an area with lots of fast single carriageway A roads so we know a few people this has happened to - they swerve off the road. Sometimes they hit a tree and the results generally aren't good.
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My cousin did that, although I don't know if he did anything wrong. Either way he was a 5 star Astra, he was in hospital for a with broken bones, but the police said if it was a less safe car he would have been killed, and also if he didn't have his seat belt.
They did also say out of all the safety features, it was the seat belt which protected him the most.
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>> Or this: www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtaW8iiMy-M&feature=related
>>
>> Young lads, particulalrly, genuinely think they can avoid all accidents.
>>
I give you that one... not a lot could be done there.
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>>we may have had to put up with bad cars when we were children but we know better now don't we. <<
But the teenager without wheels won't care what the star rating is when his mate comes along and offers him a lift.
Pat
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I made do with a bus pass and a bush bike until I was 26, but then I live in the middle of the city so it wasn't a major problem and my dad would give me lifts when I needed access to a car.
I did own a car when I was 24, but had no licence but at the time my dad couldn't drive so I had to drive it on L plates.
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>>>I made do with a bus pass and a bush bike until I was 26, but then I live in the middle of the city so it wasn't a major problem
Makes a big difference. Part of our reason for the recent home move was to give our teens the chance to get about independently. The bus service past our fen house made it near impossible to fit in with a job or getting about to friends. Now they're on an hourly route to the nearby city/towns and already eldest has an application in for Argos weekend jobs.
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How things have changed over the years, neither of my parents owned a car all of their lives, but managed without one somehow,
My friend Laurie Smith the leather craftsman lived in this isolated moorland cottage for 25 years g.co/maps/nf9py he never owned a car either.
These days every Tom, Dick, and Harriet want a car and wonder why there is so much traffic on the roads.
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>> These days every Tom, Dick, and Harriet want a car ...
Outrageous! They'll be asking for cake next. :)
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He was fine, but was recovering from a severely broken (was in hospital for ten days due to it) elbow so couldn't drive for about four months.
I only used the push bike off road, so it was safe.
Blimey an hourly bus service :). I am really quite spoilt here, buses every 5 minutes, trams every 12 but even then I only use public transport at weekends now.
Once the tram goes more into the suburbs then there will be a real option to replace the car.
An hourly bus service is still poor, if the bus doesn't turn up they are stranded, but better than nothing.
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>> Blimey an hourly bus service :). I am really quite spoilt here, buses every 5
>> minutes, trams every 12 but even then I only use public transport at weekends now.
Hourly...pure luxury! My parents live in a village that has just one bus a day each way...surprsingly enought they still have 2 cars. But then, they don't expect the Government to subsidise their transport choices ;-)
Peter
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But what about the people who cannot drive or cannot afford a car? There is a social need for public transport.
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This is the part a lot of people don't get.
If you want to work in that situation you HAVE to have your own transport and somehow, afford to learn to drive.
It is the same if your job shift starts or ends at midnight to 5am, you simply have no choice.
This is what makes me angry when I see the blanket criticism of youngsters on the dole and the assumption that they don't want to work.
Likewise the criticism of people having an old car 'if they cannot afford it'
What comes first, the chicken or the egg?
Do you go into hock for an old car but be able to get a job to afford a better one or do you just sit and whine that life's unfair and draw your dole money every week?
Yes, a bike is a possibility in somne cases but firms are few and far between in the Fen and it's cycling home certainly something I wouldn't want a youngster of mine doing at 3am in mid winter when the wind blows a gale and it's raining sideways.
Just as those who can afford to provide transport and associated running costs for their offspring, I think it's a pretty universal feeling among parents for them to want to avoid that if possible.
Pat
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>>I made do with a bus pass and a bush bike
I wonder what the NCAP rating of those were, particularly the latter if confronted with an MG on the wrong side of the road. I'd rather take my chances in a Matiz.
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Where can I get one of these bush bikes? Sounds perfect for the woodland tracks round here.
More seriously, Rats, how fit was your dad to supervise you on your provisional licence? Our resident ADI will know for sure, but don't the same requirements apply to the supervisor as to the learner?
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if my children are to get a decent job they will need a car or i sell up and live in a city so they can use public transport and that is never going to happen.
im not on about giving them everything they ask for but surely a good strong car is better than an old ax or similar. i would rather buy them an old luxo barge volvo even if the insurance was another 1k per year. luckily i wont have to worry for another year or two but the type of rural roads i use i think a big old barge is better than a tin box.
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Did you not see what happened when 5th Gear crashed a Renault Modus into an old Volvo 740 estate? The much smaller Modus destroyed the volvo.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBDyeWofcLY
Modern safety is all about protecting the passenger cell, and for that to happen the body outside the cell must absorb as much energy as possible deflecting it from the humans inside.
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Blimey, this one has drifted a bit hasn't it?
BobbyG, an 07 Matiz would be great for a learner driver IMO for all the reasons outlined a long way up i.e. light controls, good visibility, tight turning circle etc.
>> So would I be a "bad" parent if I got a car with only 2 1/2 stars?
Am I a "bad" parent because for the last three years I drove my children around in an R-reg Escort? I don't think so. Their mum still drives a T-reg Mondeo, does that make her a "bad" parent? I'd say not.
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A 4 year old Matiz will have 2 airbags and be sound and be as safe as any 7-8 year old equivalent small car which will cost as much to buy..
Key points to look for:
(Some not relevant due to age).
Rust: rear wheel sills , rear suspension pickup points.
Exhaust: rear boxes rust. Cheap replacement.Front flexi joints rust.. Can be bought separately from catalyst.
Brakes.. front disks expensive garage job - see above.
Engine:
Intake manifold can crack/deform on one side.. check carefully.
Often antifreeze not replaced every two years. Lead to HG failure.. Check coolant colour.
Watch oil in water HG.
Cambelt plus water pump 60k miles/5 years replacement.. Easy job.
Battery life approx 5 years.. £45 replacement for a calcium one.
Squeaking rear brakes could be rusty handbrake cable. £40 ish.
Otherwise normal checks... Should start first time and idle normally. (Idle Control Valves fail on older ones)..
If low mileage and serviced should be fine..DIY service piece of cake.
Owners Club: www.daewooclub.co.uk/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=5
Last edited by: madf on Mon 3 Oct 11 at 18:10
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i cant remember saying anyone was a bad parent. i said that I would never buy my children a small old car or drive them around in one.
if you want to own and use an old car then that is entirely up to you.
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>> i cant remember saying anyone was a bad parent
You didn't. I was just reinforcing BobbyG's point earlier that whilst 5-star safety would be desirable in an ideal world, it's by no means an absolute prerequisite for a lot of car purchases.
It's nice to have all the safety cells, airbags etc., but it's nicer not to need to use them. And most don't.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Mon 3 Oct 11 at 19:51
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To keep a perspective on this highly dangerous machine - the rate of deaths per distance travelled is between 30 and 40 times greater for motorcyclists than for car drivers, and about 20 times greater for cyclists.
If the Matiz presents an unacceptable risk, then nobody in their right mind would get on a motorcycle or ride a bike.
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My logic was more, would it be possible to get something a lot safer the money which is still cheap to run. However considering the Matiz in question is so cheap the safety is probably ok £ per safety.
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...If the Matiz presents an unacceptable risk, then nobody in their right mind would get on a motorcycle or ride a bike...
Or get out of bed in the morning.
Assuming they were prepared to undertake the even more risky activity of getting in the bed the night before.
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Happy to rush around in one in Italy, didn't feel unsafe to me.
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Well just a little update to this.
Was able to bring the car home tonight and get a good wee drive in it. Nippy enough about town if not a little bit revvy, though this may be due to it being a petrol and me used to diesels.
Took it up onto the motorway, not the fastest for going up the slip road and would be a inside lane car only!
Inside very basic, has a radio cd and PAS and thats it. Windy up windows.
Without saying anything specific, ran my daughter to her Tae Kwon Do and she immediately commented on how old the car looked and how small it was. I casually mentioned the benefits to it, small, easy parking etc buty she didn't bite.
Now not sure if that is because she was previously told that she would not be getting a car for a couple of years so isn't even thinking about wanting it.
Its an 07 plate, 9000 miles on the clock and been serviced annually since new at the same dealer.
Ticks an awful lot of boxes for a new driver's car but think I will just keep the money in the premium bonds and wait till she passes her test and shows a serious desire to want a car. Part of me thinks she is just learning to drive as she has turned 17 and its the done thing, as opposed to really wanting to do it.
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Jobs done. Suzuki Alto is worth seeking out though - very good on fuel and £30 tax, my neighbours daughter drives one.
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Chevrolet Matiz - Opinions? - BobbyG
