OK, By way of a position statement I am totally against drink driving. A personal experience of losing my closet friend to a drink driver rather colours that I concede but there it is.
However...Do the panel think that an experienced "good" driver with 3 pints on board is more of a risk on the road than an inexperienced "bad" driver who's sober? Also, let's take the same people in an old ill mantained car versus a new well equipped one...Is a an experienced "good" driver doing 90 on the mororway in good weather, light traffic and good visibility more dangerous than an inexperienced driver doing 60 on the same motorway in the dark, in heavy traffic?
Seconds out, round one...ding ding
:-)
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Bad or good really has nothing to do with it.
How you handle your booze, or how it affects you does. Thats very variable.
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I know people who are fantastic human beings sober and utter twonks after a couple of pints.
Perhaps drink affects fantastic drivers the same way.
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Ive driven while some way over the limit once, it was a taxing drive to say the least from Worthing to Horsham on A24, before they tried making it safe.
I made it without any near misses, but I never fancied trying it again, most people arent as good a driver as they think they are and alcohol only sends ya driving in one direction.
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>> Bad or good really has nothing to do with it.
Sorry Zeddo but that's obviously wrong. Some people are lethal drivers, accidents waiting to happen. Others aren't. There's a real difference, booze or no booze.
>> How you handle your booze, or how it affects you does. Thats very variable.
Yes though, and yes again. When you are young you tend to be at risk from euphoria. When you are older you learn to guard against that and cancel it out. But when you are older still, or ill, or upset, the effects of booze can sneak up on you. You are so to speak weaker than you were. You have then to learn a new level of restraint, so tiresome but there it is.
In my opinion when someone drives disastrously enough to cause death or injury when they have been drinking, the drink is just part of the story. They were going to do something like that one way or another. It was built into their pathology.
No one has to agree with that, but it's what I think.
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3 pints would take anyone over the legal drink drive limit, experienced "good" driver or not, so would be just as much of a risk as your hypothetical inexperienced "bad" driver who's sober IMO.
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>> 3 pints would take anyone over the legal drink drive limit, experienced "good" driver or
>> not, so would be just as much of a risk as your hypothetical inexperienced "bad"
>> driver who's sober IMO.
Three pints in how long? And how big is the chap?
A hypothetical argument - the bloke who knows he is borderline, or slightly over, will be more cautious, and concentrate far harder.
The bloke who is totally bladdered after 8 pints and a few scotches in 3 hours, won't give a toss, as his rationality is out of the window.
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>> A hypothetical argument - the bloke who knows he is borderline, or slightly over, will be
>> more cautious, and concentrate far harder.
And drive more slowly... and so get stopped by the police. Although I think they also stop those driving extra carefully/slowly because they suspect them of taking drugs. Mother in law was driving too slow and got stopped once ;-) She was just driving too slow.
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I haven't driven whilst over the limit in twenty years, but have on occasion driven while very very tired. The impairment to concentration was alarmingly similar.
Nowadays I abhor driving whilst impaired for whatever reason, because of the possible consequences to innocent strangers such as Humph's friend.
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I agree with Dave - driving to France like we did last month was stupid really, at least we shared the driving. If I'd had one drink that night I wouldn't have gone - silly isn't it ?
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I'm convinced I can drive better than SWMBO sober, when I'm over the limit. Her driving can be execrable. I recall her pulling out onto a de-restricted road when there was an approaching car within a few hundred yards that tyre-smoked its way towards us, and it was my side it was going to hit!
I don't drive if I've had a drink and I now don't let SWMBO drive me home.
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Ok, I'll play....
Let's suppose that we are all really good drivers and even when slightly over the limit are better drivers than somebody who is inexperienced.
If the worst should happen and you do injure/kill someone whilst over the limit, do you think you could satisfy the statement that even when drunk I'm a better driver than an inexperienced driver?
I am a high mileage driver, I consider myself a driver of above average ability and I do think that even slightly over the limit I am still a better driver than an 'average' or inexperienced driver but if I did injure somebody whilst over the limit I'd always be thinking what if I was sober.....
PS I do not drink and drive and never have.
Last edited by: a900ss on Fri 28 Oct 11 at 23:42
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Never driven over the limit but was extremely tired the other day, I had to drive back but thankfully it was only a few miles. I was concentrating so hard on the traffic (being aware I was tired) that I found basic things like gear changes difficult! (going into 4th and not 2nd etc).
I just cannot imagine what it would be like driving when drunk but knowing how it effects me, I guess my main effect on driving is it would make me very over confident.
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How about all these drivers who reckon they're safe driving when on the phone?
Someone at work couldn't believe that I was able to tell from the standard of his driving (when following him on the road) when his phone calls started and stopped - he was one of the chief 'I'm safe when on the phone' people.
I've also found a rise in young-ish drivers who think that as long as they are within the speed limit, any accident 'cannot be their fault'.
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I'm not sure how the 'new, well-equipped car' against the old banger argument could work. It can't possibly mean that a car equipped with a range of modern driving aids might protect a driver from the consequences of their own folly can it?
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Whereas driving an old banger with no heater with the seat of one's pants might actually lead to less risky driving.
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>> I've also found a rise in young-ish drivers who think that as long as they
>> are within the speed limit, any accident 'cannot be their fault'.
The entirely predictable and unsurprising outcome of an obsessive focus on speeding by the previous government, and the winding up or merging of the nation's traffic police divisions who were the main apprehenders of drunk drivers, as well as other serious offenders. If you started out on the roads today, and took a look at current road law enforcement with fresh eyes, you would think speeding is pretty much all that matters, given that nothing else seems to be enforced any more than sporadically.
In 99 journeys out of 100, you can get away with anything as long as you don't trip a speed camera or crash.
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Anyone that thinks they drive better drunk than others sober is probably a very dangerous arrogant driver indeed. I knew someone that believed exactly that in spite of several accidents, all their fault, they always blamed the other driver. Not even sure two drink driving bans had any impact on their behaviour.
Definitely agree about mobile phone driving. You can spot them a mile off, weaving all over the road and generally acting like they have no idea what is happening. Another friend believes she's fine with a hands free mobile and will not believe that she'll be affected even though there is experimental controlled conditioned evidence to prove it.
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I have noticed myself doing a little in-lane swerve while changing the car radio station, so tend not to do it on the move.
Tinkering with a mobile leads to an inevitable and significant loss of concentration on the job in hand.
The fact this rarely leads to an accident is a poor argument for doing it.
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The year was 1973, I was driving a Ford Zephyr 4 mrk 111 at around 7pm having just finished work (overtime)
It was raining and I was concentrating on my faulty windscreen wipers rather than the road,
Bang!
I hit a Mini that had stopped at a Zebra crossing :(
Anything that distracts attention away from the job in hand could possibly have fatal consequences,
It's a good thing that most 'modern' cars have radio/cd controls on the steering column
(unlike certain Mitsubishi models!)
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>> It's a good thing that most 'modern' cars have radio/cd controls on the steering column
>>
>> (unlike certain Mitsubishi models!)
depends! Some are excelent (renault) some are very poor (VAG) Its easier to reach for the radio in some cars.
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Hmmm interesting, thought I'd just let this one run as I have my own views and didn't want to colour things in too early. As I mentioned in the OP, I'm not impartial on these things due to a personal loss so I'm probably not best placed to comment. Too much lingering bitterness and emotion for an untimely and unneccessarily violent death I'm afraid. My friend wasn't ( by the way ) my "closet" one as I originally mis-typed but my lifelong "closest" just to be clear :-)
However, I've long held the unwanted suspicion that laws driven by safety principles are often dumbed down to if not the lowest common denominators of ability then at least to the lower reaches of those scales.
As others have identified above I guess most of us can think of holders of driving licences who propel their vehicles when sober and technically legally while still maintaining the effect of scaring the living souls out of anyone who even slightly has any concept of hazard perception and indeed can think of others who even while breaking a law such as a speed limit on a motorway for example who still manage to inspire confidence in those around them while doing so.
Trouble is, I can't think of a cleverer way of regulating things than we have now which could be readily enforced but the reality is, as I perceive it anyway, that some legal driving is terrible and some illegal driving is actually not but lines have to be drawn somewhere I suppose and those have to be set at a level which takes most account of the weakest links, or carnage would ensue. Or would it...?
Ding ding....round 2...
:-)
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Reality v Regulation - Zero
