Interesting topic here tinyurl.com/688xf6k
to which I have contributed my views and opinions but what do others think about using the clutch and gears of a manual car in this way. When I learnt to drive I was told to select neutral if stationary for any length of time but I seem to be in the minority nowadays.
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I've got a carbon thrust race on my vintage car. I don't even like stop start queues for that reason.
Also taught the same way, and having replaced a bearing type thrust race on my first car, don't want to do it again for that reason.
Observations at traffic lights suggest 7 out 10 motorists stay in gear and press brake and clutch pedals. Me, handbrake and a little rest!
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why would you want to keep your foot and leg stressed by keeping the clutch depressed?
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If you'll excuse me but having started this topic I won't comment again as I think my views are now well documented from comments on that GTi forum. However it may be a cultural difference as a lot of them seem to like to drive with one hand at 12°clock position and the other on the 'gear shift'.
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It would seem that driving schools teach learners to keep the clutch depressed however long they are waiting at a junction etc so they can be ready to smartly pull away. Something I drummed out of my children as soon as they passed as I would be paying for the new clutch release bearing!
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As some may recall, I ran 3 consecutive manual Mondeo diesels to very high mileages and never had any of the allegedly infamous clutch or dmf problems. Coincidentally, I always, when in a manual, select neutral and release the clutch if I'm going to be stopped for more than a few moments. Conversely, I always depress the clutch when starting engines or stopping them. Might be totally irrelevant of course but it's my habit.
For what it's worth, I used to select neutral at traffic lights etc and pull the handbrake on in the auto Nissan. Too much faff to do that in the Merc with its royally stupid foot operated handbrake so I just blind people behind me now and keep my foot on the brake.
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I'm like Humph. Not only do I depress clutch before starting but I also wiggle the gear stick to make sure it's not left in gear. The Passat won't start without the clutch depressed - so there must be a good reason to still do it.
I have to confess I have got used to relying on the auto-hold on the Passat. And find it natural not to put on the handbrake. Come to a halt and it will not move until power is applied. And with auto-hold on it will engage the handbrake (electronic) automatically when you turn off the ignition or remove the seat belt.
Auto-hold does not work if you're not wearing the seatbelt. Nor does auto release of parking brake. You then have to press on the brakes and then manually release the parking break.
It's a system I think is great - until I drive a car without it!
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>>It would seem that driving schools teach learners to keep the clutch depressed however long they are waiting at a junction etc so they can be ready to smartly pull away.
I was taught, 39 years ago mind :-( not to do that as if a car hit me from behind, my feet could slip off the clutch and brake and I'd move forward potentially quite quickly into traffic. Better off handbrake on and feet off everything. Seems to make more sense to me.
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My car is usually in neutral before I come to a stop, never ever sit with the clutch down, infact I often turn the engine off aswell ( but I do then snick it in 1st so I can quickly down the clutch and flick the key ).
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>> My car is usually in neutral before I come to a stop, never ever sit with the clutch down
I was taught to dip the clutch just before you stopped (and just before the engine would try to stall). In a modern diesel you need to dip it a bit sooner. And then to neutral. And if the car has warmed up enough it stops the engine itself. And restarts as soon as you start depressing the clutch again.
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Always handbrake and neutral without fail at lights. My mates mock me for it, and say its what 90 years old do. But why the hell would I want increase way on the clutch plates, my legs and blind the person behind me with the ultra bright brake lights?
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>> blind the person behind me with the ultra bright brake lights?
Does the Panda have ultra bright brake lights then ;-)
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You're right, I was taught not to do it, although in certain scenarios I will, when I want a quick depart to pass a mimser or somesuch.
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I'll do it if I know the lights will change in a second etc. Think I was taught to leave it in gear at lights, but since passing it was the first thing I stopped doing that I was taught to.
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>> I'll do it if I know the lights will change in a second etc. Think I was taught to leave it in gear at lights
When I was learning the instructor would have me changing to neutral when at the lights and hand brake on. This was 1993/1994?
But I was told to watch the other lights changing from green to red to anticipate when you could go. Not possible on all junctions because of the 'shrouds' on the lights (presumably to stop you jumping the lights).
If I'd been on an incline and rode the clutch on a test I am sure I'd have failed.
My pet hate though is when people pull out from side streets when it's not safe to do so. Especially at the speed they do it. An instant fail on a test no doubt. If I pull out like that I'd wait for a suitable gap and floor it.... and the last half tank on the Passat shows I've enjoyed accelerating! :-)
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Driving instructors routinely encourage gross clutch abuse these days. Of course passing the driving test never meant that a person could drive competently. But these days a new driver has to unlearn all that twaddle about holding the car on the clutch at uphill junctions and so on. More than ten seconds is abuse.
Modern ball-race thrust bearings may be more durable than the carbon ones of old, but there is nothing at all to be said for counting on it. I threw away a trashy but amusing motor one - an Arna - because its thrust bearing had disintegrated and it simply wasn't worth dismantling the front suspension and dropping the engine (out of doors in the country) to replace it. Drive like Rattle or a 90 year old and make your Eurobox repmobile last for ever like Humph's.
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>> Driving instructors routinely encourage gross clutch abuse these days. Of course passing the driving test
>> never meant that a person could drive competently.
One of the first things my instructor told me was that he was teaching me to pass a test - not to drive a car
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>> Driving instructors routinely encourage gross clutch abuse these days.
>>
Not the ones who have to pay for their own cars.
I used to run mine to 100/120k and never replaced a clutch.
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It has one of those third LED brake lights is almost as long as the entire rear tailgate glass. It is very bright as I often see the reflection on it in the mirror.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Tue 1 Nov 11 at 18:46
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You're right Rats - not much more irritating than that on a dark night, especially in the sticks....
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There is...rear fog lights on when it's not foggy.
Pat
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Oh I dunno, rural axe murderers can be a real pain when walking the dog. I'm sick of them. One of the beggars nicked a bit out of my sleeve the other night before I deposited him in the canal. Good coat too.
:-)
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Glad to see I've generated a bit of discussion on this subject. Clearly some of our American friends think differently.
Since owning my Golf MK6 just over two years ago now, I too have to dip the clutch in order that the engine will spring in to life. So used to that now but was surprised when I read about that procedure, prior to ordering mine but had time to put in my mind with over a 5 month wait for the car to be made and delivered.
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Pretty sure Miss B's ADI taught the in gear clutch down method. Modern theory is that it's too difficult to do/too easy to cock up the parking brake gear in neutral thing.
She's been trained out of it now and upbraids me for riding the handbrake over its ratchet.
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"and upbraids me for riding the handbrake over its ratchet."
I sense a long debate coming on . Let's talk about fog lamps instead ;-)
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I'm a ratchet man myself. My car handbook specifically states not to push in the button when pulling on the parking brake lever.
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>> I'm a ratchet man myself.
So where were you during the two or three old threads when all these hyperactive button-pressing OCD twonks were giving me a load of damn idiotic cheek about my 'lack of mechanical sympathy?
Eh? Eh?
You smirking snake in the grass you.
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>> You smirking snake in the grass you.
I didn't know you needed a minder, old age creeping up on you I suppose.
Ok I will protect you and be your Rotweiller for you.
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>> I'm a ratchet man myself. My car handbook specifically states not to push in the button when pulling on
>> the parking brake lever.
Best of both worlds for me - I press the button when I lift the lever, release the button near the top of the travel and lift the lever a little more to ensure I haven't balanced the ratchet on the end of a tooth, all in one smooth movement. And I leave my car in gear when parked.
I'm about to embark on a slight career change, as the company I've been working for as a "supply" driver also runs a fleet of single vehicle transporters on prestige delivery work. Following a recent driving assessment they're entrusting me to carry out a new car delivery later this week, with the prospect of many more to follow. Soon I should be able to hold forth on current handbrake / runflat / MFD developments with some authority :)
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I seem to recall the Mazda manual for the 6 said to NOT press the button. I generally did. Once or twice (in four years) it was not on properly. Maybe they knew better after all.
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>> Oh I dunno, rural axe murderers can be a real pain when walking the dog.
>> I'm sick of them.
Serves you right for having a wimpy dog.
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two items that has not been mentioned when sitting with the clutch down waiting in traffic is the forces the crankshaft thrust washers have to with stand. Any one who used to drive an old triumph 13/1500 fwd and Triumph 2000/2500 will only know too well that sitting on the clutch wears the crank and the thrusts out.
Now with improved thrusts these days its not so bad but still causes wear and in turn causes the cam-belt or chain to wander when the crank end float increases putting extra strain on other parts.
When at a junction nutruel should be selected and as long as people do not hang onto the gear lever causing excess loadings on the selector forks whilst either waiting or in between gear changes then the forks and their nylon slippers normally work just fine.
Of course the other component suffering if left in gear idling is the poor old spigot bearing ! now days mostly being needle roller if they seize they have quite a habit of screwing the end of the gearbox main-shaft !
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I detest the handbrake ratchet clicking brigade.
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I had to think about this one, about the only manual car i drive now is SWM's C2, and i think i take it out of gear at junctions but honestly i don't know, i just do what comes naturally and don't think about it.
SWM assures me i press the handbrake button when applying.
Oh dear, it's started early for me..;)
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I know in my car (when warmed up) I take it out of gear... the engine switches off! No handbrake to pull but I am relying on auto hold. You can feel it has worked though.... when you leave your foot on the break to blind those behind.
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Just wondering - did Ford Transits have that auto-hold thingy? About six years ago I hired one to move some furniture and I'm sure it had something like that.
And I never want to drive anything that big again....
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>> Just wondering - did Ford Transits have that auto-hold thingy?
The companies 10 reg Transit Connect has something called hill start, if that's what you're referring to?
Only works if left in gear and a foot left on the brake though (and facing uphill obviously).
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 2 Nov 11 at 10:37
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>> >> Just wondering - did Ford Transits have that auto-hold thingy?
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>> The companies 10 reg Transit Connect has something called hill start, if that's what you're
>> referring to?
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>> Only works if left in gear and a foot left on the brake though (and
>> facing uphill obviously).
>>
Yep, I hired one in 2009. It also fed in the power as you took your foot off the clutch, making it near-enough unstallable.
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>> I detest the handbrake ratchet clicking brigade.
I'm a bit disappointed in you Oldgit. Your ironic, self-deprecating handle promises so much... I thought you were probably one of us.
I note however that you don't come up with any stupid moralistic twaddle about our 'lack of mechanical sympathy', but just say you detest us and call us a 'brigade'.
Perhaps you obsessive button-pressers have abnormally sensitive hearing, and what sounds to me like an agreeable, brief string of tiny, well-lubricated mechanical clicks sounds to you like a powerful far-eastern coolie clearing his throat in preparation for a big spit, or a rapid succession of horrid tinny little crashes. You are not the only provisionally rational person here who doesn't like the sound of a handbrake ratchet. Humph is another.
Eureka!
Perhaps it is you lot (and there are a lot of you judging by your six gongs Og) who lack mechanical sympathy, since you mistake the normal agreeable sound made by correct operation of the handbrake for a terrible racket indicative of mechanical distress!
Yes, I like it. That's the answer.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Wed 2 Nov 11 at 14:31
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I've told you before AC and indeed you should know better. It's just rude. Noise pollution apart from anything else.
Stuuuuupid Merc foot/handbrake has no anti-ratchety-noise button which is another good reason to not use it. You have to raise your left leg unfeasably high in the air like a naughty pre-pubescent about to break wind and suffer a series of unseemly clicks as it engages. What were the otherwise detail obsessed Schwaben thinking of eh? Preposterous.
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Oil it dear Liza dear Liza, oil it..;)
C'mon Hump you've now got a proper car the parking brake ratchet of which isn't made of cheese, my 16 year old's parking brake is still as smooth and effective as the day it was made, it gives a barely audible clicking sound, it's supposed to.
Don't need the parking brake unless you park anyway, having a proper auto box your car holds still on the steepest of inclines without the need for any weird and wonderful and likely to fail hill hold facility.
Once bitten, it's hard to go back.
PS, you can operate the parking brake silently if you need to, when approaching someone else's wife's quarters for example, pull the release handle whilst you press the parking brake, release the release handle when the brake is applied....hello my dear.:-)
Forgot, you've got the tractor engined version, stealth approach not possible unless you coast in.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Wed 2 Nov 11 at 14:59
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Well, Ding Dong ! I'll try that.
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>> Ding Dong !
Bad manners. Noise pollution.
:o}
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I quite like the Merc foot operated brake. I had one for a while, great fun to rock up to a girls house at flying speed, stamp on the brake and leave two, still smoking, tyre treads on the tarmac outside.
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Bit long in the tooth to be up to that sort of malarky with handbrakes aren't you?
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>> Don't need the parking brake unless you park anyway, having a proper auto box your
>> car holds still on the steepest of inclines without the need for any weird and
>> wonderful and likely to fail hill hold facility.
Well almost. My old Merc will not always hold on inclines in multi-storey carparks.
The foot activate/ hand deactivate parking brake, by the way, was introduced by Mercedes in the 60s in order to ensure the handbrake was correctly engaged at a time when handbrakes were feeble and ineffective generally, and especially so on cars with rear disc brakes. Mercedes designed a very robust mechanism and the foot activation meant a very high holding force could be achieved.
The hand release is supposed to be easier than the foot release on US cars, and makes a very satisfying well engineered clonk when you use it. It does on the older Mercs anyway.
Mercedes have used this type of parking brake on every model since the 60s, except the 190, SLK, A and B Class - the footwells are too small on these cars.
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>> Well almost. My old Merc will not always hold on inclines in multi-storey carparks.
>> except the 190,
Never knew that about the 190, learn summat every day, but my car will hold on every hill including the exit part of my drive.
I agree, i like the parking brake on MB's, the inside handbrake only brake shoe design of rear brakes has been copied by several other quality makers too, i like the system except if you decide to change the rear parking shoes wihen you renew rear disc/drum, very fiddly but i didn't have the correct tool for the spring clips, much cursing ensued and most knuckles skinned.;).
Having said that, the handbrake of our rear disc braked C2 which works on the rear calipers is superb too, though i agree not all types are so good, i imagine the adjusting mechanisms wont last forever like the MB's do though.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Wed 2 Nov 11 at 15:33
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>> but my car will hold on every hill including the exit part of my drive.
I actually thought Mercedes had got rid of the hill hold function from the auto gearboxes in the later W124s, though I wouldn't swear to it. I think it's done using a one way clutch. Fairly certain it's not just the torque converter.
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>> I actually thought Mercedes had got rid of the hill hold function from the auto
>> gearboxes in the later W124s, though I wouldn't swear to it. I think it's done
>> using a one way clutch. Fairly certain it's not just the torque converter.
>>
I didn't know it was an inbuilt hill hold, though mine is one of the last made it may well have it, as it feels like it's actually 'held' on my drive not as you say just sitting there by balance of creep, mine doesn't tickover like a banshee either, probably 700rpm steady, and creep isn't a problem at any point.
Mine has the bog standard 4 speed auto, maybe it was the 5 speed box that dispensed with the hold facility.
We did have the 5 speed auto in a 320 estate which as you know had the most devastating first gear acceleration when it selected first with foot to floor (IIRC the 5 speed only selects first if you boot them to the floor), but i can't remember if it held like this one.
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I'm a reluctant convert to the foot-on-pedal method, because the Volvo has developed an old-car foible that makes it occasionally difficult to select first (or reverse) from neutral. Gear-to-gear shifts are perfectly normal, but I don't like to risk being unable to move when the lights change.
Replacing a 'thrust rod' in the gearbox hasn't fixed it, and removing the gearbox to investigate properly would be ruinously expensive (as I know from a year ago when I had the DMF and clutch replaced) so I'm resigned to living with this as long as I keep the car. I do use the handbrake, though!
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>> >> I detest the handbrake ratchet clicking brigade.
>>
>>
>> I'm a bit disappointed in you Oldgit. Your ironic, self-deprecating handle promises so >>
All that prattle aside, We once had access to an old Vauxhall Victor IIRC that has been driven by the handbrake clicking brigade and my father borrowed it for a week from the firm's pool of cars.
One night he came home in this car, whose ratchet 'highs' were probably almost non-existent and parked it on our fairly steep-ish driveway. This was in the days of very little traffic on the roads but in the morning the car was no longer in the drive but was found across the road with its rear wheels safely against the pavement on the opposite side of the road.
Getting in to the car we found the handbrake in its 'off' position and of course realising the history we were not surprised. Suffice it to say my father put the car back into its proper place and left it in gear with a brick under one of the wheels.
My béte noir is ratchet clickers and to me is a sign of people not sympatico with their car's mechanicals and hence the need for their destructive actions on their handbrake mechanisms.
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>> prattle aside
Oh dear. Yes, it must have been prattle since there is no sign of irony or self-deprecation here after all. Your handle is obviously more along the lines of an accurate description.
>> My béte noir is ratchet clickers
Oh dear again. Surely a bad category of person, rather than just people who apply their handbrakes in a normal manner, would make a more convincing bête noire? You must live an improbably sheltered life Oldgit. Having once been in a knackered Vauxhall that your dad left without its handbrake properly applied on a slope hardly counts as broad experience.
Loud raspberry (but no offence really).
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So you entire view is coloured by one knackered car some 40 years ago.
It is not in the least destructive. I am afraid your mechanical sympathies were learned in the stone age.
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OG did say the the ratchet 'highs' were probably almost non-existent so he must be probably almost correct. Case proved beyond reasonable doubt I'd say.
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Not at all proven, did he strip the handbrake lever assembly?
Why for example, given that not all the teeth would wear (due to handbrake cable stretch meaning additional teeth would get used later) did it slip all the way back off?
Have you ever in your experience, in the last 20 years, come across a car with worn ratchet teeth?
Sorry - its cobblers
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You were probably being almost ironic
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 2 Nov 11 at 18:14
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Modern ratchets, to throw Og a sort of lifebelt, are better designed than they used to be: with asymmetric teeth instead of the symmetrical ones they used to have. I think these days they don't succumb to normal wear, but ratchets with symmetrical teeth could get a bit rounded especially if they were never greased (as they were supposed to be of course).
Another thing: these button-pushers are at risk of leaving a lever with the pawl poised on top of a tooth. If it slips off later, the sort of thing that can happen, the pawl might just skip over the rest of the worn teeth and release the brake entirely. I reckon that might have happened with Oldgit's dad's borrowed Victor. But I've never dismantled a Victor handbrake so I don't know what shape the ratchet teeth were.
But where modern cars are concerned, Zero is right: it's cobblers.
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Aren't those ratchet-clickers who cite the manual's advice mistaking the legal department's advice for that of the engineers?
Apply handbrake using button = risk of leaving pawl on the end of a tooth = potential lawsuit when new car rolls away
Apply handbrake without button = risk of eventually wearing out ratchet teeth = risk of old car rolling away, but who's going to sue for that when it's clearly the product of poor maintenance?
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My Nissan's got rear discs.
SWMBO was amazed when I told her to pull on the handbrake and while still applying pressure to it, to press the footbrake.
We've only had the car for five years!
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>>must be probably <<
Pedant alert:)
I like to hear the ratchet, it's a reassuring sound and tells me it's all working as it should do.
Pat
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I thought trucks gave a nice 'whoosh' sound.
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They do, but I've been driving my car all day and couldn't remember how I do it until I actually did it:)
Pat
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I can't believe I'm actually reading this. That drivers - poor ones at that, like hearing their ratchets every time they yank on the handbrake. My flabber is really gasted.
I pull mine up silently and then release with a subtle upwards pull again to ensure engagement.
I would consider myself a naturally talented driver who passed his test after less than 5 lessons in the fifties and whose teacher remarked on never having had someone so naturally gifted with handling a car and driving in sympathy with the car's mechanics.
Fifty five years later, I still enjoy my driving but am appalled at what I see and HEAR coming from cars around me today.
However there must be some of you here who remember fly-off handbrakes (I do). How would you get on with these, I wonder?
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>> I would consider myself a naturally talented driver who passed his test after less than
>> 5 lessons in the fifties and whose teacher remarked on never having had someone so
>> naturally gifted with handling a car and driving in sympathy with the car's mechanics.
Modest too, how will we cope in such exalted company.
Pompous git ;)
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At least we know where to go for advice on crank starting, double declutching and sticking your hand out of the window to turn right.
};---)
That said, I use the button too, and I was taught in the late 1980s with some advanced tuition in the mid-90s. It was still the instructors' advice then.
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>> >> I would consider myself a naturally talented driver who passed his test after less
>> than
>> >> 5 lessons in the fifties and whose teacher remarked on never having had someone
>> so
>> >> naturally gifted with handling a car and driving in sympathy with the car's mechanics.
>>
>> Modest too, how will we cope in such exalted company.
>>
>>
>> Pompous git ;)
>>
I don't know how you'll cope but I am sure you will come to terms with it. Just relax and I'll guide you if necessary.
Now, all together. Depress your knobs and pull on the lever in an upward arc and then release the knob but when released just pull up again ever so slightly. Now that was easy, wasn't it? Now once again..................................................... you'll get it right eventually and save wear and tear on those poor old ratchet and pawls.
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"I pull mine up silently and then release with a subtle upwards pull"
thougt you might
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Car in my garage has a fly off handbrake.
And the car in my shed you have to push the lever sideways, and then pull the brake. But it has the excuse it was made in 1930 and some features are noted as going out of favour in my 1914 Motor handbook.
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I screw a self-tapper into my knob (oo-er missus!) when I'm doing auto-tests. Saves time pressing the button and gives a satisfying 'clunk' when I release it.
Confuses the competition, a couple have remarked on the sound.
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>> some
>> features are noted as going out of favour
>>
On my Ferguson tractor I have to apply the footbrake, then reach down and engage a paul on the ratchet. It releases under gravity when the pedal is pressed, such as when carelessly boarding by standing on the brake pedal instead of the footrest.
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>>However there must be some of you here who remember fly-off handbrakes (I do). How would you get on with these, I wonder?
I've never owned a car with one, but having used one for a weekend recently it seemed very logical; certainly for hill starts.
I can see why a modern conventional handbrake might be considered more failsafe, not requiring a button press to stay on, but I'd happily have a fly off.
For the record, I am a non-clicking, non release bearing tormenting, non-clutch-slipper. Why subject anything to needless wear?
I had a colleague who typically got 8,000 miles out of a clutch (company cars). At a red light on a hill, for example, he would hold the car on the clutch. His view was "that's what it's for. They should make them properly".
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They're a delight to listen to, these well informed people like your colleague. I wonder if the company car was made any difference to his driving technique - I doubt it very much.
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Handbrake?
I never touch the damn thing. It releases when I switch on and select Drive and then activates itself when I get where I'm going and select Park. Anywhere in-between the footbrake or transmission creep does the job.
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I quizzed my daughter on this as she has just passed her test (first time) last week, and has been mentioned before, leaving the car in first gear with clutch depressed is now the done thing! apparently any delay in moving away from the lights or junctions is an immediate fail, my daughter became very touchy when I asked if she thought this may damage the car, all I heard was "that's the way I was taught therefore that IS the correct way".
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"Handbrake?
I never touch the damn thing. It releases when I switch on and select Drive and then activates itself when I get where I'm going and select Park. Anywhere in-between the footbrake or transmission creep does the job"
Yes, they're a proper nuisance....far better use the footbrake - especially at traffic lights - the bloke behind deserves a dose of high level brake light in his eyes for several minutes at a time - serves him right...for........for...ermm....... for being behind you! That'll teach him!
Mind you, you're in the majority - I'd have said about 8 out of ten follow your example, so on that basis you're right and I'm wrong to faff about pulling up the darned thing and then letting it go again...it's all such a bother....
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>the bloke behind deserves a dose of high level brake light in his eyes for several minutes at a time
If brakelights give you a problem you're either too close to the car in front or you need to go to specsavers.
Try leaving enough space between you and the car in front that would enable you to drive around him if you were subject to a hijack attempt or he broke down.
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In all honesty I acknowledge that my point has been made....here, and in another place...numerous times, so is hardly breaking new ground. Likewise the, somewhat trite, response is equally well trotted out (including the advice to attend specsavers) so we've hardly qualified for an award for innovative script....but at least when I'm sitting behind one of the 80% of drivers who can't be bothered to use the handbrake I'll know I've exchanged correspondence with one of them in the (virtual) flesh.
We didn't cover the usual bit about you being shunted up the rear and having your foot dislodged from the brake pedal and ramming the bloke in front with more force than if your handbrake was applied...but I imagine you've got that one covered too, so let's not bother with that one.
Do appreciate the advice regarding keeping a decent distance from the vehicle in front though. As a novice to this driving lark it's something that hadn't occurred to me.
Last edited by: kb on Fri 4 Nov 11 at 12:38
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>> We didn't cover the usual bit about you being shunted up the rear and having
>> your foot dislodged from the brake pedal and ramming the bloke in front with more
>> force than if your handbrake was applied...but I imagine you've got that one covered too,
>> so let's not bother with that one.
Sorry to re-cover this one but I don't follow it.
If I'm stationary with my foot on the foot brake and someone shunts me from behind, how does my foot get dislodged from the brake, the car moves forward, my seat moves forward, my leg & foot moves forward and the brake pedal moves forward, all at the same time and distance ?
Assuming it doesn't and I may be wrong there, I would say that having the foot brake on with all 4 wheels locked would be more efficient at stopping you moving forward than having the handbrake on locking only two wheels.
On the Prius, I don't have a hand brake, I have an electronic transmission lock "P" button and a foot operated parking brake and I never use either, the car puts the electronic transmission lock on when I switch off and I use the footbrake in traffic to prevent me creeping forward when in drive.
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>> Sorry to re-cover this one but I don't follow it.
>> If I'm stationary with my foot on the foot brake and someone shunts me from
>> behind, how does my foot get dislodged from the brake, the car moves forward, my
>> seat moves forward, my leg & foot moves forward and the brake pedal moves forward,
>> all at the same time and distance ?
you are wrong there. You car moves forward, but you (and your foot) move backwards. Quickly. That's what whiplash is all about.
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>>On the Prius, I don't have a hand brake, I have an electronic transmission lock "P" button
>>and a foot operated parking brake and I never use either, the car puts the electronic
>>transmission lock on when I switch off and I use the footbrake in traffic to prevent me
>>creeping forward when in drive.
Which is one of the reasons I hate being behind Prius's at the lights. The brake lights are LEDs and very bright to sit directly behind (falls off quite a bit as one gets at an angle).
Last edited by: Slidingpillar on Fri 4 Nov 11 at 15:12
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>> Which is one of the reasons I hate being behind Prius's at the lights. The
>> brake lights are LEDs and very bright to sit directly behind (falls off quite a
>> bit as one gets at an angle).
Sorry :0(
Think of it as your contribution to saving the planet ;0)
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>> you are wrong there. You car moves forward, but you (and your foot) move backwards.
>> Quickly. That's what whiplash is all about.
Does that apply at all speeds ?
I can only go on my own experiences of 2 rear end shunts at low speed, where in neither case did my foot come off the brake, one of them I saw coming in my mirror the other I didn't.
I though whiplash applied to the head pivoting on the neck, not to the legs and feet. If your body is sat firmly in the seat and the car floor doesn't distort, I can't see how your foot comes off the pedal.
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Yes legs and feet move around just like your head. When i got hit sideways on, my knee ripped the gear lever out, and that was anchored firmly on the brake pedal trying to stop,
Seats have a tendency to collapse backwards, complete with your body in a big rear end shunt.
Mind you I think its a good thing not to be firmly braked in a rear end shunt, happy for my frontal crumple zone to absorb some of the shock into the rear crumple zone of the car in front.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 4 Nov 11 at 15:30
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>Likewise the, somewhat trite, response is equally well trotted out (including the advice to attend specsavers)
If brake lights cause you genuine discomfort you may have what is called photophobia which can be an indicator of other, more serious, eye-related problems so the reference to specsavers is not as trite as you imagine.
If they do not cause you discomfort but merely annoy you, get over it - noisy nose-blowers annoy me but I don't lose sleep over it.
>..so let's not bother with that one.
Since you've mentioned it, no, let's not bother.
>As a novice to this driving lark..
Glad to be of assistance.
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It's inconsiderate to sit in a queue with your foot on the brake.
May your discs warp and your bulbs fail prematurely.
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>> It's inconsiderate to sit in a queue with your foot on the brake.
>>
I look at this differently, seeing how long it takes some people to get their act together once they finally realise the car in front has moved i'd rather they were in gear and ready.
You'd like or maybe not SWM's method of dealing with these mimsers who are not ready or stall, she's far enough back that should the traffic move she gives them around a half a second to go then she's round them, worse when she had the pick up as verges etc held no progress problems, so it could both side passing...she upsets a few once in a while..;)
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If your wife tried that with me after 0.5 seconds she would be up the keep left bollard and you would be arranging a tow truck.
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>> If your wife tried that with me after 0.5 seconds she would be up the
>> keep left bollard and you would be arranging a tow truck.
>>
She wouldn't need to Z cos i doubt you ponce about so only you got throught the lights leaving a line of poor blighters stuck behind whilst you mince off merrily into the sunset, she as i do loves following someone who gets a move on and doesn't mince about, having someone competent blaze a trail is a pleasure.
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>>she's far enough back
I remember being taught I should stop far enough back from the vehicle in front such that I could pull round it if it failed to pull away. You should be able to see the contact patch of the rear tyres with the ground IIRC.
What's the driving instructors here say?
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>> What's the driving instructors here say?
RR will probably be along idc. But like the handbrake/neutral v gear chosen/clutch down thing I've had the instruction vicariously from Miss B.
She was taught to keep the contact patch in view. OTOH I queue everyday to gain the ring road from the station's access and want to get the max number of cars through each green cycle.
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Keeping clutch depressed, in gear. - Slidingpillar
