I think I already know the answer to this, but....
Straight road, 40mph limit. HGV stationary at side of road on nearside. Other vehicles parked further up the road on the offside. Vehicle A passes the HGV. Vehicle B pulls out of driveway immediately in front of HGV on nearside and turns right (ie facing vehicle A). Vehicle B is unable to stop, A & B collide.
What's your thoughts on blame?
Thanks,
DB
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The emerger - with a classic Dangerous Position on the truck driver.
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Should have said "Vehicle A is unable to stop". Oh yes, and vehicle A had blue flashing lights and sirens on....
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One benefit of living in Germany, used to be at least, that the police would turn up at the scene of an accident and, after due process, issue their equivalent of a NIP to at least one of the parties involved. saved a lot of knock-for-knock rubbish and insurance company dithering.
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Who is to blame? why the one without blue lights of course.
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>> The emerger - with a classic Dangerous Position on the truck driver.
>>
Can you explain that in more detail? As far as I am aware, if the HGV was not parked near a junction (driveway surely would not count as such) then driver of same is doing no wrong; there is no indication in the OP that the driver of the HGV was in his cab.
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I had same thought as Harley. Not enough detail in OP to draw any conclusions on HGV.
Emerging driver should have been creeping/peeping. Reflections of blues and sound of the likely acompanying twos might have provided clues as to presence of other vehicle.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 15 Nov 11 at 20:39
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Agreed, Bromp - and if there's really not enough view to turn right safely, turn left instead and look for an opportunity to turn round.
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Okay then...
The HGV driver was in his cab. He had pulled over on seeing an emergency vehicle behind him. The oncoming traffic had also pulled over, again seeing an emergency vehicle en route.
There were no parked vehicles as such, just vehicles that had pulled over temporarily.
Any other details that would be handy?
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If the police car had its sirens on then the car pulling out from behind the lorry should have heard the on coming cop car and held back until it had past.Because he didn't then its the car drivers fault.
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Nothing to do with not looking properly then?!
It's analogous to turning left at a T junction without looking left. The emerger has to make sure the big road is clear.
Somebody parks a Cashcow to the right of my drive, most nights, that blocks my view up the road when I come out in a morning if I'm in the MX5 and about two feet off the ground. I don't just launch out and hope for the best.
Last edited by: Manatee on Tue 15 Nov 11 at 23:02
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In my book (yes its a black and white book) anyone who enters a major road from a minor road or other access, and causes an accident, is at Fault.
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I'd basically agree although it's possible there could be an element of contributory negligence (excessive speed or no attempt to take avoiding action spring to mind).
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Car A as they pulled out.
Sirens/lights have nothing to do with it.
Excessive speed may well count against the emergency vehicle however.
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>> Sirens/lights have nothing to do with it.
Agreed but they might have presented clues to an alert driver.
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I had a moment similar to that decribed a couple of weeks ago.
Pulling out of a drive (forwards) on to a busy road I was turning right. Traffic from the left is broken up by traffic lights so comes in bursts.
On the right there's quite a sharp bend right so you can only see may 35 yards. Once you see a gap both ways you have to go for it. I did, only for a Police car to come around the bend on the wrong side of the road! Of course, from where he was the road would have looked clear until I drove into it. Fortunately it was easily wide enough for all 3 of to be abreast.
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Who is to blame?
Whoever is least adept at passing the blame on to somebody else.
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Vehicle B, no question at all.
Did he think the whole road had come to a halt for him to get out of his drive?
Pat
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Thank you all, that's pretty much confirmed my thoughts.
Ps - the emergency vehicle was travelling at the speed limit at the time.
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Was the car exiting driveway forwards or backwards?
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This is not a hypothetical case, it it, DB?
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It's not a hypothetical case, no.
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DB, can I suggest more coffee before you leave for work in the morning?:)
Pat
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Pat, I almost put something along those lines.
My sympathies, DB. Hope the fall-out isn't too bad.
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For me, I've been the soul of tact and discretion all day:)
Pat
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I also hope the fallout isn't too bad for the driver of vehicle B. I was a front seat passenger in vehicle A though....
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DB, your driver shouldn't give hime/herself a hard time about it. We all do stupid things from time to time and it's just the way lessons are learned.
At least no serious harm came to anyone, and that's the main thing.
Pat
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Ta!
My crewmate doesn't blame himself, he had taken every reasonable step to ensure progress was safe.
It's a shame that we're both now signed off duty due to seatbelt type injuries. Hoorah for Co-Codamol!
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...Oh yes, and vehicle A had blue flashing lights and sirens on...I was a front seat passenger in vehicle A though...
What were you doing in the front of a speeding cop car?
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I've never said it was a police car! We were in a 5.5 ton Mercedes ambulance, you know the kind - big yellow box, festooned with flashing lights and a ridiculously loud siren!
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...We were in a 5.5 ton Mercedes ambulance...
We had those Yank ones up here - until the wheels started falling off.
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I know the type...bit like the 13' high x 55' long lorry that they still can't see:)
Pat
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>> I know the type...bit like the 13' high x 55' long lorry that they still
>> can't see:)
Only because its hidden by another one alongside, and has been for 5 miles ;P
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...and that's because you're tucked up the rear cow catcher trying to improve your fuel consumption:)
Pat
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In apportioning blame it must matter whether the road was wide enough for the police car to pass the lorry but still on its own side of the road, or whether it was so to speak "overtaking" by driving on the right hand side of the road?
It is a quite common occurence that someone overtakes, but another car pulls into its path because he is not looking for a fast vehicle travelling on the wrong side of the road.
Yes, I know, everyone should look everywhere just in case.
Also, there are clues. Did the emerging driver really imagine that all that traffic in both directions had stopped solely to let him out of his drive? I know lorry drivers are kind and courteous, but there are limits!
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>> In apportioning blame it must matter whether the road was wide enough for the police
>> car to pass the lorry but still on its own side of the road, or
>> whether it was so to speak "overtaking" by driving on the right hand side of
>> the road?
>>
>> It is a quite common occurence that someone overtakes, but another car pulls into its
>> path because he is not looking for a fast vehicle travelling on the wrong side
>> of the road.
But that would still be lack of observation. If the road's reduced to one car's width then effectively its a single track road; traffic may pass in either direction.
Still need to look both ways even if turning left into an apparently clear lane.
Nearest I've ever come to a big smash was failing to do that when turning right from a campsite in France. Some sixth sense made me hesitate and stamp on the brake as a car shot past at 90+kph. Would have killed me and or my daughter sat behind for sure.
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>> Agreed, Bromp - and if there's really not enough view to turn right safely, turn
>> left instead and look for an opportunity to turn round.
>>
Hear hear! Too many people do daft things to avoid travelling safely to the next junction / roundabout / side road. In that particular situation I always proceed under the assumption that there is a speeding motorcycle hidden by the obstruction. Sometimes there is.......
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Accident - Who is to blame? - R.P.
