| Motoring Discussion > How do you tell them, do you? | Miscellaneous |
| Thread Author: - | Replies: 23 |
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New Thu 17 Nov 11 12:18
How do you tell them, do you? - -
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This is a moral question but i've put it here as it's vehicle related. A friend of SWM popped some 150 miles down to see her during the week, whilst here i noticed her car, 7 year old Mitsi Outlander. Very mucky, but otherwise OK, it lives a rural life, she likes it for it's stability in all weathers but particularly winter when it doesn't budge. She's a recent widow, so money is a consideration, and the car being a petrol 2.4 only did 25 mpg on the journey, so i imagine it drinks the stuff with local short runs, and she did mention the running costs. It might well be a Di petrol which would mean it can't easily be LPG converted but the car has only done 40odd thou from new, so i did wonder if it might be a thought for her, she got rid of her own car so the Mitsi gets used more than it did when her husband was alive and she likes the car. However i went out and shoved meself underneath to see if the underbody held a nice nook for a tank just in case it wasn't a Di, when i looked under i was quite shocked at just how rusty everything is, i mean the suspension subframes and all looked like they were well over past their half life, the exhaust is heavily rusted the entire length and i'd give it a year at best that'll be a dear one, but i'll point her to getting a custom stainless quote to compare with the normal replacement. Could need discs/pads all round soonish, i didn't inspect the brake lines but suspect they'll be corroded. Does it have a cambelt, is that due timewise, i dodn't poke me nose under the bonnet? Obviousy seeing all this i'm in a moral dilemma, do i suggest via SWM that she finds herself a good mechanic to have a serious inspection of the car before it starts to cost and she throws good money at it, the car runs fine and apart from dirty the body is sound. The lady concerned is very nice and still obviously grieving for her husband, whose car it was, she doesn't really need to hear this in some ways. The distance involved means i can't really sort it out for her, well i could if she came down for a few days but it will have another winter under it's belt by the time i can do the business to do something about belated rustproofing. How do we tell her or should we let time hopefully heal a bit more before she finds out. What would you do? |
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New Thu 17 Nov 11 12:36
How do you tell them, do you? - Stuu
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Id make the offer to do the remedial underneath, grief doesnt go hand in hand with rational thinking and cars can be quite symbolic of people no longer with us. You can make the offer that you would be happy to do the work for her as it needs doing fairly soon, so she can if inclined come to the conclusion to move it on, if not it will last a while longer. My nan, even though she never drove it, took 5 years before she could bear my dad to get shot of the Astra and buy a new car, she saw it as the last bit of my grandad left that she could reach out and touch. |
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New Thu 17 Nov 11 14:01
How do you tell them, do you? - bathtub tom
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If you're prepared to do the work, then why not talk to SWMBO to suggest she invites her down for a few days to 'do' the area. Good theatres in Northampton! What are you thinking of, a coat of old engine oil or something more substantive? |
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New Thu 17 Nov 11 14:36
How do you tell them, do you? - -
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Thanks for the thoughts lads. Engine oil would probably be best and a coat of CL grease on the brake pipes, i think the car is past waxoyl being of any use. My problem being i was off to work so could only give the car a cursory check. What i don't want to do is get her to come down another £80 of fuel, then find there's more to spend than is worth doing in her mind, shockers etc just don't know till i strip it....i would just get on with it if it were my own car but people don't see things the same as us do they. I suppose the best thing would be for me to get some prices for likely costs and an exhaust when it falls off...which it will do at the worse moment as these things do. I'll have a poke nose round the Mitsi forums and see what info i can gain, re cambelt, exhaust, etc. Cambelt might be a dealer job and a serious cost on it's own. Nothing on HJ in the whats bad section, but he does mention that a dual fuel option was offered from new so that leads me to think that it's not a Di. Complicated thing though, variable camshaft lift similar i imagine to Honda VTEC, but no mention of belt or chain drive, either way it's not a motor that would like oil and service neglect i suspect. |
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New Thu 17 Nov 11 22:50
How do you tell them, do you? - Avant
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Looking at it objectively, it looks like a good case for flogging it and avoiding expensive repairs which could be needed any time. But obviously it's more complicated than that, and maybe when you're talking to her you and get round gently to the subject of the car and find out how she likes it / whether it's what she needs / what she could afford if she did want to change. Then you'll have a feel as to whether it's worth you having a go at the Outlander. Last edited by: Avant on Thu 17 Nov 11 at 22:50
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New Thu 17 Nov 11 23:17
How do you tell them, do you? - RattleandSmoke
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| When is the MOT due? It sounds like that it may well fail badly anyway but rust is a funny one, different testers have different ideas. |
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New Fri 18 Nov 11 05:39
How do you tell them, do you? - Iffy
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While it's nice to be nice, the simple, straightforward approach is best: "I had a look at the car and it may need some work, I'm offering to help, but you may find it easier to have it done locally." |
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New Fri 18 Nov 11 08:38
How do you tell them, do you? - Dave
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| Get the wife to tell her. |
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New Fri 18 Nov 11 13:13
How do you tell them, do you? - -
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Started the ball rolling, they speak via instant messenger most days, SWM has mentioned that the car looks a bit rusty underneath and it would be prudent to act before getting too bad. The lady concerned does have a mechanic that looks after it, an indy how good he is i don't have the foggiest, she's going to mention the rust and get him to have a look at it first. We'll see what comes next, it's not at MOT failure stage but it could benefit from some treatment to slow the process. Thanks for the thoughts. Last edited by: gordonbennet on Fri 18 Nov 11 at 13:14
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New Sat 19 Nov 11 09:36
How do you tell them, do you? - Baz
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The underneath can often look pretty horrific if never tended to for a few years. - I bought an 04 MX5 which shocked me a bit once I had a good poke around. But it turned out that the rust was all surface stuff and with a day's wire brushing, a good blast of warm Waxoyl and various chain oils etc, looked a lot better and up to a few more winters. I reckon a day's work on that car would sort it out, plus a new exhaust and general checkover of bushes etc. I'd have thought the petrol 2.4 was fairly bombproof if thirsty, properly serviced it should be ok. And there's no dreaded DPF to worry about either. PS Is rusty underside more common with Japanese cars? My Octavia is 9 years old and not a spot of rust underneath, but i do look after it? |
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New Sat 19 Nov 11 09:47
How do you tell them, do you? - Iffy
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...Is rusty underside more common with Japanese cars?... Rusty every side is more common with Japanese cars. |
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New Sat 19 Nov 11 11:34
How do you tell them, do you? - corax
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>> Rusty every side is more common with Japanese cars. What do you mean? |
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New Sat 19 Nov 11 12:03
How do you tell them, do you? - Manatee
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We had a '99 Ka that my daughter decided she didn't need in 2006. I got it back over from Cambridge to sell it, and it was mostly brown underneath with surface rust. I'll be keeping an eye on the Outlander following GB's story. |
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New Sat 19 Nov 11 12:44
How do you tell them, do you? - -
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I forgot you had one of these MT, this model or, knowing your deep pockets the latest one.:-) What do you think of it overall, and has it been a good un, genuine parts prices have always been high with Mitsi's i understand, is that still correct and is servicing an eye watering visit? I like the car, wouldn't mind one meself of that particular short lived model but i'd be busy on the underside pronto, 04 to 06 ish, according to HJ they offered a dual fuel option for a grand on the new price. A bargain that was and i'm surprised most buyers didn't get the dual jobbie. I assume they stopped importing in 06 because a 2.4 petrol of older design would have slipped into the highest VED bands. The exhaust looks as if it could be an expensive one, not going to be a popular aftermarket pattern part either, maybe a custom lifetime warranty stainless might be better. Waiting to hear what the mechanic she uses has to say about this one. ''PS Is rusty underside more common with Japanese cars? My Octavia is 9 years old and not a spot of rust underneath, but i do look after it?'' Baz, i think a lot depends on whether the car gets enough use after the winter (or washed off properly) to wash the encrusted salt out, few seem to bother whilst spending hours 'detailing' the paintwork whilst the tin weevil does its job underneath unchecked, i'll never understand them. Last edited by: gordonbennet on Sat 19 Nov 11 at 12:47
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New Sat 19 Nov 11 12:55
How do you tell them, do you? - -
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| Just looked Parkers up, yes it did go on £450 VED if regd after Mar 06, no wonder it vanished. |
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New Sat 19 Nov 11 13:46
How do you tell them, do you? - Manatee
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Early days yet GB. Had it since April. I replaced a 95,000 mile CRV with it which was probably not a great idea - man maths again. The Outlander is a good car, but I haven't come to love it. The CRV would do just about anything in third gear, but although this pulls from 1300rpm the red line is 4200 and it's lost interest well before then, and it's easy to end up changing gear in the middle of an overtake unless you're careful to start with the right one. Odd really, because it's not short of power at 174bhp and it can be made to go quite quickly. The 4WD system is more sophisticated than the CRV's. It's electronic via a transfer clutch and can be set for 2WD, 4WD AUTO, or 4WD LOCK. AUTO and LOCK work similarly but LOCK just apportions more torque to the back wheels. All modes can be used on dry roads. It's worth using AUTO if there's the dampness around to avoid TC activation which is otherwise very easy to induce at junctions, roundabouts. Brakes are excellent, main controls are light and easy to use. The 2005 on CRV2 cornered well enough but the Outlander is better, and the steering is surprisingly sharp and pointy. It has lots of interior space, it's quiet, and I don't expect to get stuck in the snow. But I'm always "aware" of it in a way that I wasn't with the CRV. The detail ergonomics seemed designed to irritate rather than ease use, the most frequently noticed being the cruise control - because I have to move my hand to operate it I still have to think about pressing the buttons, and the associated light on the dash instead of lighting when it's engaged, is lit all the time to show the system is switched on. Not really designed at all. Servicing is every 9,000 miles on the manual, which has the new Mitsubishi MIVEC (VVT/VTEC) diesel rather than the PSA engine; presumably because the DPF burn off uses extra fuel and the 'lost' diesel ends up in the oil. The level on mine has gone up but at just under 8,000 miles it's well below the 'X' I'm happy to say. Three services prepaid were nominally £600 at the time of purchase, which I got as part of the 'discount'. So I think servicing will be expensive because of the frequency if nothing else. The DPF burn off happens about every 300-400 miles and I reckon uses about 0.5 litres extra fuel, worked out from the impact on my MPG on the 17 miles journey to work. So it's adding about 1.3% to fuel consumption. Interesting huh? I get about 40-41mpg, measured properly, and driven gently, vs a combined claim of 43.6 IIRC. Enthusiastic driving gets it down to the low 30s. I've been to work in the MX5 every day this week, and out for the paper and to collect a parcel this morning with the roof down! Last edited by: Manatee on Sat 19 Nov 11 at 13:47
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New Sat 19 Nov 11 14:11
How do you tell them, do you? - -
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Thanks for that MT, you've put me off the later model for good, soon as you mentioned rising oil levels and DPF that did it for me, though the cars themselves whether Mitsi badged or PSA are a decent compromise between normal estate car and traditional 4x4. I found the Mitsi version too easy to stall for my liking, the PSA less so, possibly the extra 200cc engine making that difference at low revs, i know i'm at fault i don't give the engine enough throttle from a standing start, i'm forever stuck in old school Diesel world when they simply would not stall and would happily pull away with no throttle. I don't mind 9k servicing, the good Japanese makes never did go down the long life servicing route and i wouldn't either. I probably wouldn't consider the later model whichever badge it wore, i'm fairly sure no auto was offered until very recently and it's a dual clutch automated manual, and you couldn't pay me to own one of those. Been looking at the 04 to 07 model more closely, seems a decent alternative to a Forester non turbo, proper auto box too, would have to be regd before Mar 06 due to ben dover VED rates, looking at sales it would appear probably only about 10% for sale opted for the bargain LPG option, though there might be more than 10% around as those who bought the dual fuel will more than likely run them into the ground. 2.4 petrol does have a cam belt, no idea of cost to renew but knowing Mitsi it'll be a right complicated and expensive job. Many thanks for your in depth view, it had a lot to live up to following the excellent CRV, the model of which you had is probably the standard bearer in the market, certainly my lads top range Diesel CRV of that model is giving trouble free sterling service to date. Last edited by: gordonbennet on Sat 19 Nov 11 at 14:13
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New Sat 19 Nov 11 16:00
How do you tell them, do you? - Manatee
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GB, In the current model, I think it was the 2011 model year when the MIVEC diesel appeared, but only in the manual Mitsubishi-badged versions. The autos still have the PSA, but as you say they are automated manual things which I'm not mad about owning long term, especially with a bit of towing involved. Although the 4N14 is nearer 2.3 litres, for tidiness Mitsubishi calls them all 2.2DI-D. The dealers (or at least the guy that I bought from) aren't necessarily that clued up. He insisted the engines were the same. They aren't. PSA - DW12 (versions used by LR, Ford, and in the auto Outlander) 2179cc 154bhp@4000rpm 380Nm@2000rpm Mitsubishi - 4N14 2268cc 174bhp@3500rpm (which possibly explains the need for "early" upchanges) 380Nm@2000rpm The Mitsubishi is more economical in theory, and I believe in practice - a friend has a C-Crosser manual and he gets low 30s. Subjectively I think the 4N14 is also quieter than the PSA. Both have DPFs. If you wanted a manual with the PSA engine now, you'd have to but a Peugeot or Citroen version - they're now all made at NedCar in Holland, the factory owned by Mitsubishi. |
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New Sat 19 Nov 11 16:23
How do you tell them, do you? - Runfer D'Hills
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That's interesting Manatee, the non-bonding element of your relationship with the Outlander I mean. I felt similarly about my recent Qashqai. I really couldn't criticise it for levels of equipment or ability. The model I had was festooned with toys and gadgets galore but somehow it was like a computer game to drive, not quite connected if that makes sense? A perfectly, in fact, more than adequate tool for the job of driving but nothing more. My previous to that Mondeo estate while being technologically far inferior was uch more of a pleasure, I used to look forward to long journeys in it perhaps masochistically enough. Conversely, the Merc E Class is also a delight. I really love it already. I've somehow managed to notch up a short 5000 miles in just over a month and have enjoyed every one of them. Funny isn't it how a machine can be so irrationally emotionally inspiring? Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Sat 19 Nov 11 at 16:27
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New Sat 19 Nov 11 16:34
How do you tell them, do you? - R.P.
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| The same for me with the CRV - a hugely capable and practical car - peerless in the snow and ice on its superb M&S tyres....but ultimately boring. The X1 in comparison has a driver's car DNA and I like it. Same with the BMW 1200RT I owned, a true Uberbike - same engine as the 1200GS but the soul had been computerized out of it. |
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New Sat 19 Nov 11 16:50
How do you tell them, do you? - Runfer D'Hills
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| The other odd thing was I could never park the damn Qashqai straight first time ! Strange really as they're not very big and have good all round visibility and indeed the infuriating but handy beepy things. I don't exactly lack experience of parking either ! The Mondeo and even more so the E Class estate are a doddle to park by comparison despite their larger size. I think the Merc is helped further by having a really good tight lock. I had to park in the underground helter skelter under the the Royal Garden hotel in Kensington the other day. For anyone who doesn't know that car park it's probably got the tightest spiral entrance ramp I've ever seen and the most cramped of parking spaces you could imagine. No problem at all with the big car to place it inch perfect. Similarly on the move, you just seem to be able to "think" it where you want it. Well chuffed. |
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New Sat 19 Nov 11 17:33
How do you tell them, do you? - Manatee
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>> That's interesting Manatee, the non-bonding element of your relationship with the Outlander I mean. Yes, the CRV was like a comfortable shoe - once on, forget it's there, and it always does what you want. The Outlander just feels more like work, especially around town and busy routes. Better on a good A road where it's more relaxing; I enjoyed the drive back from Cambridge last weekend. Last edited by: Manatee on Sat 19 Nov 11 at 17:34
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New Sat 19 Nov 11 14:15
How do you tell them, do you? - madf
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>> ...Is rusty underside more common with Japanese cars?... >> >> Rusty every side is more common with Japanese cars. >> >> >> So how come I see lots and lots of 20 year old Corollas - with no rust? Ditto 15 year old Hondas? And 12 years old Yarises? (Most Toyotas have galvanised bodies (part not full) from the mid 1990s).. My son's neglected 11 year old Yaris has zero rust.. the underside is filthy but underneath is the original paint/seamsealer and underseal- as new.. |
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New Sat 19 Nov 11 14:34
How do you tell them, do you? - Baz
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| Good to know that, I might be in the market for an older Yaris sometime. |
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