Am I alone in wanting to keep both my hands on my steering wheel whilst driving? I have a partner who does not do this but tends to drive with the left hand resting on the gear lever (bad) or on her lap especially when driving in the suburbs, as if afraid that by so doing she'll be able to perhaps make a gear change more quickly.
This morning I stood by our main road watched the cars driving past and a very high percentage only had their right hand on the wheel and I was quite shocked to see how few people have proper control of their cars.
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I've driven a lorry in that very same style for the last 30 years and have remained accident free so I'd argue that I did have proper control:)
Look at it this way...if you can't maintain proper control with one hand on the steering wheel, how can it possible be 'safe' to change gear or operate the indicators/wipers etc.
But then again, us females are better equipped to do multi-tasking!
Pat
Last edited by: pda on Sat 26 Nov 11 at 16:11
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Any fool can steer one-handed and many do. I can steer with my knees but that doesn't make it a good idea (except when texting, knitting or eating of course).
I might be lazy in slow moving queues, or a bit creative when manoeuvring, but when I'm driving properly I can do it much better with both hands on the wheel and that's how I drive. Consciously not gripping too tightly improves feel and is less tiring.
Of course it's also possible to have good anticipation, observation and positioning even if you drive one handed, but I know I drive better with both hands steering.
I commend it to any one-handers as something to try for a week.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sat 26 Nov 11 at 16:38
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Generally I use to hands but in slow moving traffic I often use one, as I have the other over the or near the gear stick.
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I drive with my right hand at about 1 o'clock, my elbow resting on the lower part of the wheel, and my left hand in my lap holding the wheel at about 7 o'clock.
That way it's easy to swing my right hand over the top to turn left, or down to turn right.
If I need to turn the wheel further than that I wind it with the heel of my right hand.
The other hand is there to catch the spinning wheel as it self-centres.
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Most Americans manage it all the time :-)
Other hand is used to eat, text, trigger guns etc.
If the car is an automatic, it is even easier.
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I use both hands, just not at the same time ! Ten to two, left hand on ten, right on two but usually only ten or two at any one time. Heel of hand to spin wheel for parking. Doesn't everyone?
:-)
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I tend to drive with my right at around 3-o-clock, elbow on arm-rest and my left on my lap or holding the wheel at around 6-o-clock. My left is always available for the gear lever or to move up to the wheel for tighter turns.
I was given a professional driving assessment where this was criticised but I find it relaxing.
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"but I find it relaxing."
Can you really be in control driving like that?
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I always drive with hands at the quarter to three position, or ten to two.
That way it's so much easier to sound my horn and flash my lights simultaneously.
Last edited by: legacylad on Sat 26 Nov 11 at 18:14
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Well, I do everything wrong in theory anyway, one handed, sit too far back with whichever arm is on the wheel almost straight. Legs pretty much straight too. Seat back tilted too far back as well apparently and set the squab too low. Reverse / park on the mirrors ( not showboating but at one time my car was usually so full that I couldn't see out of the back window), switch fairly randomly between left and right foot braking in autos and often don't bother with the clutch in manuals once rolling and until recently often had my elbow on the open window sill while holding a fag.
Can I really be in control? Probably not, but 1.2 million miles without actually hitting anything with my car so far would seem to suggest it's not as dangerous as some would have us believe. Of course I'm more than prepared to accept I may just have been lucky up until now.
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I learned the straight-armed, semi-reclining driving position in the 1960s when Jim Clark made it fashionable. I always set the driver's seat of my large and powerful car as far back as it will go, and as low as possible, with the backrest reclined at 45 degrees and the steering wheel set as high and as far forward as possible.
For an exceptionally short and fat person like me, this is not always convenient. I can just see over the scuttle when no steering wheel spokes are in the way, but having to perch unsupported on the front end of the seat squab is a little fatiguing after a few minutes.
With my hands grasping the wheel very firmly indeed in the five-to-one position, I can haul myself right off the seat to use the clutch and brake pedals which are placed inconveniently far forward, the accelerator pedal having a six-inch extension attached so that its essential function is not compromised.
However, removing my left hand from the wheel to operate the gear lever while my weight is supported entirely by my hands has sometimes led to an inadvertent swerve. However only four or five of these swerves have had fatal results for anyone, and none have been serious.
Friends urge me to obtain a car with automatic transmission, but they are anathema to the true sporting driver. When are manufacturers going to understand that not everyone is the same?
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>> For an exceptionally short and fat person like me
I'm a gangly 6'3" and I find it very easy to steer with my knees in most cars, vans and lorries. Nonetheless I hold the steering wheel with 2 hands when in town or when I'm hoofing it - either through the twisties or when in a proper hurry on the motorway - otherwise I use only 1 hand when cruising at normal motorway speeds.
Because my knees are usually in contact with the steering wheel I can (and do) easily use them to take over steering duties when I need to do anything else with my hands.
>> I always set the driver's seat ... as far back as it will go ... with the backrest reclined at 45 degrees
I like to have my seat back bolt upright, but on any high mileage vehicle all the sponginess in the seat squab has gone. That means I get pins and needles from sitting on the metal seat frame inside the sponge foam unless I recline the backrest quite a lot - which then gives me backache from such a poor seating position.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Sat 26 Nov 11 at 18:54
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>>However
>> only four or five of these swerves have had fatal results for anyone, and none
>> have been serious.
>>
:)
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The sarcasm and wit here only demonstrate that the majority have probably not got full control of their vehicles and I'd hate to think what would happen in a sudden emergency.
I must be out on a limb then as I like to keep my hands where they should be unless changing gear, of course.
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>> I like to keep my hands where they should be unless changing gear, of course.
In your pockets OG? Or are you a bit of a rip - blonde in one hand, bottle of whisky in the other?
I think we should be told.
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>> I must be out on a limb then as I like to keep my hands
>> where they should be unless changing gear, of course.
>>
>>
You pull into a layby to scratch your nose, change radio channel, switch on heated rear window, open window, or anything else then?
Heaven help you if your bum starts to itch on the motorway, I suspect you'll be a damn sight more distracted than the rest of us! ;-)
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I've driven with one and for soooo long that I'd be a danger if I used two, and anyway - who'd hold me pasty??
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There's no co-ordination once you try to do something with two hands. Anything that needs precision is best done with one hand alone.
Try carrying a cup of tea with two hands - it's impossible without spilling it.
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You nearly had me convinced there. Have you tried a two handled cup?
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>> Excellent AC !
>>
He's having an AC power surge :)
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...Try carrying a cup of tea with two hands - it's impossible without spilling it...
Try carrying a cup of tea with two crutches - it's impossible.
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>>Try carrying a cup of tea with two crutches - it's impossible<<
Best to take the tea in first, then go back for the crutches.
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I drive with both hands on the wheel in ten-to-two position. I don't need to change gear because I have an automatic, and (like most cars these days) the controls for ICE and phone are on the steering wheel. It works for me, but I realise that it doesn't suit everyone.
I sometime see people who keep one hand on the gear lever at all times. If that's what they want to do - OK. The extreme cases also sit leaning to the left. This posture looks like it would be VERY uncomfortable for any length of time - as well as potentially causing back problems.
Why do they do this? I shouldn't stereotype people, but it seems that the "leaners" all try to behave like "cool dudes".
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Somtimes its the classic 10 past 2, at times its the 3-15 maybe with the hands on the wheel spokes, somtimes its 20 past 4, at others its 5-35,
The most common tho is right elbow cocked on the door window ledge, hand at 3 o'clock holding the wheel as a slight damper, left hand anywhere twixt 11 and 7.
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The right hand does almost all the driving now.
In most of the trucks the manual override for the gearbox from hell is on a stalk on the RHS of the wheel, and my old Benz was designed properly as a RHD car with the one stalk that does indicators, wipers, washers, dipswitch in the same place to the right of the wheel.
Drivings much easier for me now, tried not indicating and it's much easier, makes no difference to your own progress at all and saves wear, payback.
Left arm resides on the armrest, helps keep you in place without seatbelt at night too, have to use it though to drink tea and swap stations to avoid adverts for the brainwashed, steering wheel controls too prissy.
:-)
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Well after reading this thread I thought I would wait and check my own style before replying.
I seem to drive with my right arm resting on the door. The steering wheel has a spoke at 3 oclock and I hook my right index finger over it, my thumb under it and my middle finger round it!
And although I am right handed, I use my left hand to do all the turning, either pushing the wheel or pulling it!
It wasn't until I actually checked I realised that this is how I hold the wheel. Of course, once I am fully concentrating and watching what I am doing, I then revert to a ten to three position!
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I hold the steering wheel two handed unless one hand is doing something else car related. Like changing lights/wipers/radio/gear. In the cold spell in late 2009 and early 2010 I was told off by my wife for not holding the steering wheel two handed... lack of control etc. It was freezing.
Just wish a normal priced car had heated steering wheel I guess :-)
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And then there is the problem of the hot steering wheel after a long heat soak in the summer
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>> And then there is the problem of the hot steering wheel after a long heat soak in the summer
How? You have to turn on the steering wheel heating on cars that have it.
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I usually drive two handed (as I was taught) - left hand very occasionally rests on my lap/leg - I ride two handed (!) mind you the old RT had cruise control which meant that the right hand was as free as the left hand on motorways and the such like, give other riders double takes by waving at them with my right hand.
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Quite often I find myself just holding the wheel with my right hand.
My first car was an Austin Mini (they had skewed steering wheels/columns) and it was the only way to drive it comfortably.
Last edited by: Chris S on Mon 28 Nov 11 at 12:29
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They were really awful cars to drive ! I drove a few and hated them all.
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>> They were really awful cars to drive ! I drove a few and hated them
>> all.
You can't have been doing it properly. The original Mini was an amazing car to drive. I'm sure I drove mine one handed though. With wide wheels, spats and sticky tyres there was just no need to slow down for roundabouts.
Last edited by: Manatee on Mon 28 Nov 11 at 12:42
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I had a 10", leather covered, drilled spoke Momo steering wheel on my Wolseley Hornet. It made it feel much easier to drive but I can't quite believe I've just admitted to that...Didn't really go with the Colway crossply remoulds did it ?....The sheepskin seat covers were of course just a mirage. No one would actually do that would they...
Edit - Had a suede Momo on my Landy. Classy eh?
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Mon 28 Nov 11 at 12:48
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People who insist on 2-handed steering must be living in about 1930, accustomed to driving vintage lorries or Bentleys with manual steering. They need the 2 foot diameter steering wheel and gorilla arms to hold the beast on the road. They probably wear driving gauntlets to cushion the road shocks.
Steering a modern car is like tuning a radio knob or operating a computer mouse - why spoil the finesse by hamfistedly using two hands?
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Why do racing drivers use two hands then?
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Mon 28 Nov 11 at 14:02
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From watching clips taken from inside the cockpit it appears to be very low-gearing and they don't do tight turns. They don't seem to need to swing the wheel very far - about an inch seems to cover most needs.
At the other extreme, watch someone driving a traction engine, spinning the wheel round and round using a disabled knob.
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As you say racing drivers don't need to move the wheel much, they steer with finesse. They could use one hand to steer but they don't, they use two. It give more control. One handed driving is just sloppy.
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Sloppy it may be, but nevertheless it is something that shows a truly relaxed and safe driver who finds driving second nature, not something to be thought about and analysed until the need (an emergency) arises.
Then of course, it's an instant response, and makes for a good driver all round.
Far better than a nervous driver trying to concentrate an too many things at once and failing in most of them.
Pat
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>> Sloppy it may be, but nevertheless it is something that shows a truly relaxed and
>> safe driver
I take it your tongue is firmly in cheek, given that one handed is also the method of choice for just about everybody. Must be we two-handers who are causing all the accidents ;-)
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No, I'm deadly serious Manatee.
Looking down into a car from a lorry cab was always the one thing that made me pay extra attention to a car was seeing 'white knuckles'
For most of us on here, given the age we are, driving should be like making a cup of tea or going to the loo.. something that is automatic but with instant alerts if something is instictively 'wrong'.
BobbyG hit the nail on the head when he had to actually drive his car to see where he put his hands naturally, just as a few of us did on another recent thread about using the handbrake with the ratchet or not.
To me, and to most lorry drivers, during a 15 hour day of work and driving mixed, the driving part is where you relax and unwind, where you belong and are in tune with what you're driving.
We should all aim at being 'at one' with our vehicles and let them talk to us, driving standards would certainly improve.
Pat
Last edited by: pda on Mon 28 Nov 11 at 17:36
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We should all aim at being 'at one' with our vehicles and let them talk to us, driving standards would certainly improve.
Which is why I prefer a bike - far more switched on, ride far faster than I drive, a rider is an organic part of the whole, every little movement is translated into a reaction by the bike, you can steer by the slightest twitch, so much so that actually steering becomes so subtle you can't explain it to a non-rider. Someone on here said that a bike naturally steers where you look - no finer description. I went out and thought about that and, you know what ?, it's perfectly true.
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>> One-handed driving is just sloppy.
Can't really agree CGN. I do it often myself and I am seldom a sloppy driver, although we all are sometimes. Naturally though one shapes up a bit when really, really going. But I seldom am these days. I am often at or below the limit.
I tend to agree with Pat. The anxious insistence on always being 'in control' reveals a fear that one may not be in control, the ever-present unconscious fear of the mimsing prat. You see them every day, crouching forward with the wheel held in a rigid death-grip, staring in terror at the enemy on the other side of the windscreen, ready to start and jerk with surprise and indignation at the merest hint of another vehicle or hazard.
Relaxed but vigilant is how one should be, not tense and ready for anything (except when really, really going... and who does that these days?).
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You have an excellent way with words Sire, my wife (who reads) says you're a very good writer!
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Your logic is flawed Pat. There is nothing to stop you being relaxed whilst driving but keeping both hands on the wheel as a default position. If you are called upon to make that "instant" decision you mention it might just take a fraction of a second less to implement. Don't really fancy blow out on a motorway at 80mph with one hand on the wheel.
am surprised that anyone would advocate anything else other than in an ironic manner.
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CG a truly competent driver is pefectly able to control a vehicle in an emergency with one hand just as well as two.
In fact we all should be able to do that as a matter of course and it worries me that so many can't.
I'm (quite rightly) proud of my accident free record given the amount of miles I've covered in an artic over the last 30 years so I don't think my argument can be that flawed, do you?
Pat
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"I'm (quite rightly) proud of my accident free record given the amount of miles I've covered in an artic over the last 30 years so I don't think my argument can be that flawed, do you?"
Well actually I do Pat. You are making a logical error in assuming that because some nervous drivers grip the wheel tightly with both hands as if their life depended on it it is somehow safer to drive with only one hand on the wheel and furhter, to drive in such a manner is the sign of a good driver.
It is perfectly possible to drive in a relaxed and confidant manner with both hands on the wheel as a default position. In fact I like to think I have been doing so for the past 45 years. I believe it is also inherently safer to do so
You say that it is perfectly possible to control a vehicle in and emergency with one hand Are you really saying that in certain emergencies such as a front wheel blow out you would not use or need two hand to control your vehicle? I have had such an incident, fortunately not at 80mph, and it took considerable effort to control the vehicle (a Transit) with both hands.
You have to put your hands somewhere, why not keep them on the wheel!
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Mon 28 Nov 11 at 19:34
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>>You are making a logical error in assuming that because some nervous drivers grip the wheel tightly with both hands as if their life depended on it it is somehow safer to drive with only one hand on the wheel and furhter, to drive in such a manner is the sign of a good driver. <<
No I don't CG.
You made that conclusion to my simple statement that a nervous driver who grips the wheel with both hands and has white knuckles is one to be avoided.
The rest of that statement is your own interpretation, and as such, not my view at all.
I think you make a logical error, both in trying to pre-empt my conclusion but also in trying to make the case that a car can only be controlled efficiently with both hands on the wheel.
With that in mind, surely if a blow-out occurs while changing gear or using indicators, then we're all doomed.
What I am saying is that it is certainly possible to control the vehicle in an emergency INITIALLY with on hand while the other automatically returns to the steering wheel. It is an instinctive reaction and takes but a mere second.
I think you're argument is flawed CG, I base that on my own experience, you think I'm wrong so I'll just carry on in the way that has kept me safe over the years. It's been well tried and tested after all:)
Pat
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>> I think you make a logical error, both in trying to pre-empt my conclusion but
>> also in trying to make the case that a car can only be controlled efficiently
>> with both hands on the wheel.
>>
>> With that in mind, surely if a blow-out occurs while changing gear or using indicators,
>> then we're all doomed.
But our default position is 'both on', if one is off then its only away for as long as it takes to adjust the heater or whatever.
Where's the one handed driver's other hand?
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>>But our default position is 'both on', if one is off then its only away for as long as it takes to adjust the heater or whatever. <<
Whether his hand is on the heater controls or picking his nose is of no consequence, it's his ability to be in control while only having one hand on the wheel.
Since changing gear means that it's the default position for at leat half of urban rush hour driving time, I consider it a necessity.
Pat
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"What I am saying is that it is certainly possible to control the vehicle in an emergency INITIALLY with on hand while the other automatically returns to the steering wheel. It is an instinctive reaction and takes but a mere second."
well what you actually said in your previous post was
"CG a truly competent driver is pefectly able to control a vehicle in an emergency with one hand just as well as two."
You now admit that in an emergency you are going to require two hand on the wheel and it will take time to achieve that. A second can be a long time in an emergency if you are travelling at 80mph
It is obviously preferable therefore that two hands are on the wheel whenever possible.
Simple straightforward common sense really.
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Ok CG, you are determined to be pedantic about this one so I will ask you this.
'If an emergency situation occurs when you are changing gear...
1) Are you able to control the car?
2) What do you instictively do with your hands?
I'm not going down the road of justifying my way of driving to you, it works for me, it's always worked for my employers and I have absolute proof of that.
If that isn't good enough, or right for you, then that's absolutely fine with me!
Pat
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Pat, I am not being pedantic. I just don't agree with what you said and made a perfectly polite and well reasoned argument to the contrary. That happens in discussion forums.
Its not a question of anything being good enough or right for me. Why do you get so personal when someone disagrees with you?
I won't pursue the matter any further. I suspect you know your argument is untenable.
Last edited by: CGNorwich on Tue 29 Nov 11 at 14:32
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I'm certainly not taking it personally CG, but I find more and more that an opinion voiced on here gets blown up out of all proportion and here, we've ended up looking at miniscule amounts of time.
I'm then asked to justify it, well quite honestly it's easier just to keep quiet.
I've said more than once that it works for me but you seem to have a reluctance to accept that may be so....maybe it's not just me then?
This can often become a pain instead of a pleasure to post in here when this sort of thing happens.
I realise some have the time, some may be bored, but it's also nice for some of us to just be able to pop in and out and make a quick post without having it taken to the extreme and other posters trying to twist you words.
Sadly it's not often so.
Pat
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>> I suspect you know your argument is untenable.<<
The above is a perfect example.
It isn't an argument, it's a discussion.
As an opinion it doesn't have to be tenable.
Why does everything have to be so black & white, right or wrong?
Pat
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I don't know about Pat, but I, and I suspect one or two others, have been guilty in this thread of teasing the two-hands-on-the-wheel-at-all-times advocates by referring to the rigid, over-anxious white-knuckled mimser type.
Of course I don't really suspect CGN or Oldgit of being like that. They could be of course, but I doubt it very strongly.
The difference here is about attitude rather than driving. I haven't made a close analysis of my own, but I do know that at medium and low speeds I drive some of the time with one hand - either hand - and some of the time with both, gearchanges apart of course. One can be smoking, changing channels, sticking a CD in the slot or just gesticulating (not to other drivers as a rule). Pat again hit the nail on the head when she said that her free hand is never so far from the wheel that it can't get there in time to help with a hazard, and that the important thing is anticipation. It's the same with me. The moment a hazard is perceived, and in far less than the second Pat says it takes, without any conscious thought process, everything is put in train to prevent the hazard from becoming a dangerous moment.
It takes a long time to learn to drive like that, to get a really sophisticated autopilot that always works. It takes many years of thinking about the whole business while doing it, and also involves the ability to change your mind, to understand when you have a bad driving habit and change it, perhaps as the result of some expensive or embarrassing booboo. It doesn't happen overnight.
Of course as any fule kno - even me, even Pat - you need both hands on the wheel when push comes to shove, and it's a good idea to have them there most of the time. So no offence chaps, unless you are going to start giving us a load of carp about smoking at the wheel.
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I don't think I would disagree with any of what you say AC. It is the ability to anticipate problems that keeps you out of 95% of them.
To be honest I don't think anybody really on here really believes its not a good idea to have both hands on the wheel most of the time, not even Pat. Just doesn't like reversing out of a dead end she finds herself in. ;-)
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>>Just doesn't like reversing out of a dead end she finds herself in. ;-)<<
....but of course, but the difference is I can reverse out of it one handed:)
Pat
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>> of course, but the difference is I can reverse out of it one handed:)
Brilliant Pat...
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Lack of anticipation on my part - I should have seen that coming! :-)
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>>a truly competent driver is pefectly able to control a vehicle in an emergency with one hand just as well as two.
It does bother me when I see a driver reach through the wheel and grab the top, palm up. There's only one way the wheel will turn from that position.
C'mon, who here will admit to doing that?
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>> It does bother me when I see a driver reach through the wheel and grab
>> the top, palm up. There's only one way the wheel will turn from that position.
Depends what hand he uses.
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>> Why do racing drivers use two hands then?
Because they're doing 200mph
Because they've got lots of buttons to play with.
Because they didn't learn their craft piloting a Sierra round the North Circular at warp factor 10 with a brick sized mobile phone in their left hand and a fag clamped in their teeth.
Wimps...
:-)
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They need the 2 foot diameter steering wheel
>> and gorilla arms to hold the beast on the road. They probably wear driving gauntlets
>> to cushion the road shocks.
A perfect description of the strength and resistance to shocks required to drive my first artic, S39 (Mickey Mouse) Foden, no power steering, no dampers i can recall to damp the cart springs, solid steel steering column bolted directly to the chassis, you had to drive it to imagine the shocks that transmitted from every tiny road bump.
To manoeuver or tight turn in town required the bracing of a foot against the dash.;) (well the steel bulkhead with razor sharp Lucas flick switches touching your knees) and hauling the wheel hand over hand like pulling an anchor in.
It was one the last built..'72, not '32, and they wondered why the foreign makers got a foothold..
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I'm with RTJ on this one. Unless I need the left hand, both are on the wheel, ten-to-two ish. Although I have found myself resting my left elbow comfortably on the little box between the front seats (2005 Mazda 6) and just hanging my fingers on the bottom of the wheel, while the right holds properly.
At a dead stop, I am off the clutch and my hands are at the bottom of the wheel.
I am too short to 'knee-steer'!
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Round our way the chavs drive with seat fully back, right hand resting on top of the wheel and leaning over to their left (head in centre of car) as if the've got a broken centre console armrest. LOL
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This style is known as the "widow's grip".
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I don't think that I've ever disagreed with Pat before, but I must in this case. :-(
I did the winter driving course at Mercedes-Benz World, where I experienced typical emergency situations in a safe environment.
I defy anyone to try the same exercises, and tell me that they can control the car better with a "one-hand-look-how-relaxed-I-am" driving style, than a two-handed one.
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>>and tell me that they can control the car better with a "one-hand-look-how-relaxed-I-am" driving style, than a two-handed one.<<
See my reply to CG Londoner.....nowhere did I say that I could control it better and that is trying to twist my words!
Shame on you, that is Mapmakers job:)
Pat
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>> required the bracing of a foot against the dash
>> It was one the last built..'72, not '32, and they wondered why the foreign makers
>> got a foothold..
You loved it..
:)
Last edited by: corax on Mon 28 Nov 11 at 20:13
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I have been amazed by the replies to my original post. I realise some of them are tongue in cheek but the implication from the majority seems to be that I am, as a two handed old codger, a nervous, white knuckle insecure driver who can only handle his car by frantically gripping his wheel until the whites of his knuckles are visible.
Obviously it is not possible for to say how far from the truth this is. However, I consider myself relaxed and properly in control with a nicely balanced feel, having both hands on either side of the steering wheel, any other position not being so.
I am not a member of any Advanced Driver's clubs and don't wish so to be but I wonder what their views would be?
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Top and bottom of this -
Some awful drivers, including I should think nearly all of the reckless ones, drive one handed.
Most careful drivers also drive one handed, especially when cruising. That's because most people steer one handed most of the time.
Two hands on the wheel is not the exclusive prerogative of nervous ninnies.
Incidentally, a car that bounces you around a bit, like my little MX5, is harder to control one handed unless you ARE tensed up - that's because the jiggling moves a relaxed arm and therefore the steering wheel, resulting in "unwanted steering inputs". I discovered, or at least rediscovered, this while driving one handed at the weekend, just before I regained control after being forced into a bigger-than-average pothole. It's actually more relaxing to keep two hands on the wheel.
I'm not in the least evangelical about this hands thing - attitude, observation, anticipation and positioning are far more important safety influencers aren't they?
Last edited by: Manatee on Mon 28 Nov 11 at 22:10
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Two hands on the wheel, generally in a ten to two, is what I was taught in 1977. Pull and push. Worked then and still works now. Sure I have to take a hand off to change gear, adjust the heater or even unwrap a glacier mint. But the default is both hands on the wheel.
Might be nearer twenty to four on a quiet motorway particulalry in the 'lingo with the armrest deployed but I'm not comfortable with a hand off the wheel. And if it was off where would I put it?
As M says above attitude, observation etc are more important but I'd rather not have another factor in between reaction time and full control.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 28 Nov 11 at 22:27
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Like most topics discussed here, they just get plain silly in the end. Surely most of us would agree that it is best to drive with both hands on the wheel except when changing gear. Why else would you need to steer the car, the majority of the time with your other hand resting elsewhere as that doesn't make sense?
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Most of us will have heard of Paul Ripley, generally acknowledged (certainly by himself) as a leading expert in the field of driving technique. He used to contribute a regular column in the Daily Telegraph and I am absolutely certain that he would blanch in horror at the thought of anybody, experienced or not, suggesting that it is safe or desirable to control the direction of a car with one hand as the default position on the steering wheel.
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>> Most of us will have heard of Paul Ripley, generally acknowledged (certainly by himself) as
>> a leading expert in the field of driving technique. He used to contribute a regular
>> column in the Daily Telegraph and I am absolutely certain that he would blanch in
>> horror at the thought of anybody, experienced or not, suggesting that it is safe or
>> desirable to control the direction of a car with one hand as the default position
>> on the steering wheel.
I'm sure that's right. My, admittedly out of date, IAM manual mandates two hands as well.
Plenty of people get away with one hand and two, as Pat observes, is not good if its a death grip. Nor is it a substitute for observation and planning.
But however long they've been accident free one handers are erroding a safety margin unecessarily.
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>> But however long they've been accident free one handers are erroding a safety margin unecessarily.
No they're not. I drive one handed most of the time, sometimes I drive with two hands. The push pull method suited cars of years ago with heavy unpowered steering, but you really don't need that sort of grip with the majority of modern systems, especially electric steering.
I had an untied sofa bounce out of a truck in front of me on the dual carriageway, a small movement of the hand to pull me out of that particular lane had me avoid a potential accident. Vigilance and observation at all times a long way ahead of you beats steering with two hands unless you really have to change direction quickly.
I go past a woman most days on the way to work. Both hands on the wheel, shoulders hunched, head close to the windscreen, and doing around 40mph on a dual carriageway. She looks petrified, or she can't see, one of the two, but I reckon her safety margin is pretty much eroded away completely.
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One the one hand, Vettels and Loebs and Russel Swifts of this world can probably exercise more control over a car with a fingertip that most of us here can aspire to, on the other hand, there are plenty of drivers out there whose driving is poor and isn't going to improve even if they had extra limbs grafted on and gripped the wheel with four hands.
For us mortals inbetween, until we have a third arm grafted on (or voice controlled cars) then we all have to drive one handed some time or other, so we'd better try and do our best :-)
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>>On the one hand, Vettels and Loebs and Russel Swifts
Russ Swift's son Paul is a very accomplished autotest competitor as this clip shows: www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3U7NktNj1o
Doesn't seem to touch the wheel with his other hand!
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>> Russ Swift's son Paul is a very accomplished autotest competitor as this clip shows: www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3U7NktNj1o
>>
>> Doesn't seem to touch the wheel with his other hand!
Does he have a knob on the wheel?
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>>Does he have a knob on the wheel?
Probably. I've seen some with 'fiddle' brakes, one for each rear wheel, keeps the left hand busy.
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Yes he does.
A rallye driver in action:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtWsb2pVT1g
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>> >>On the one hand, Vettels and Loebs and Russel Swifts
>>
>> Russ Swift's son Paul is a very accomplished autotest competitor as this clip shows: www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3U7NktNj1o
>>
>> Doesn't seem to touch the wheel with his other hand!
>>
Its FAKE!
Its has to be - everyone knows its totally impossible to be in control of a car, with only one hand upon the steering wheel.
;-p
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>>>everyone knows its totally impossible to be in control of a car, with only one hand upon the steering wheel.
And so he proves... weaving all over the place and after 1min39sec he still hadn't managed to find the car park exit.
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>> You loved it..
>>
No C i didn't, it was incredibly hard work with one of the hardest to fathom crash gearboxes of all time, 4 speed stick box (gearstick normal place) supplemented by three ranges shifted by an air shift on the ''dash''.;) to the right of the tiller, previous models (two stroke engined) had second gearstick.
Incidentally my Gardner engined motor was flat out at 48mph where the two strokes would happily do 75+ at goodness knows what revs, my mate went past the gaffer like he was parked up when he'd just picked up his brand new MGBGT, so didn't recognise the car...sacked...;)
The problem being that the ranges were not equal so you had to learn the shift pattern as you went, 1L 2L 3L 4L 2M 2H 3M 3H etc ...or 1L 2L 3L 1M 1H 2M 2H etc.
Until you were fully experienced if you fluffed a gear change you'd have to stop the vehicle and start again, you couldn't force a change either it would break your left arm before it would allow a forced change.
No worse than the 13 speed column change on an MAN with crash box from the same period mind, though they did have power steering....wimps...
The good thing about these tough old motors is that once you mastered them then it mattered not a jot what vehicle you had to drive it was going to be a doddle, in that respect i was grateful for the tough experience, you didn't get any training by the way except that instructors of the era taught differently to now (they didn't use Fodens though), you simply got your truck issued, a flat bed trailer, some ropes and sheets and a backscotch, and off you went.:-)
Didn't drive that old stuff one handed Oldgit unless you were Superman.;)
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Well it's been against my better judgement to relate this tale all day, seeing the way this thread was going but no matter, I'll set myself up for grief yet again!
We were up at just before 2am for Ian to be at work at 3.30am.
I had a phone call from him just before it got daylight whilst he was on the M11.
He was very apologetic but had just opened his sandwich box, which stands nicely on the engine cover to have a ham and pickle sarnie before his first drop at Leigh on Sea.
He grabbed it while watching the road (and holding the steering wheel with both hands) and felt something wet, crisp and cold.
In his semi awake state before he'd left home he had opened the fridge and grabbed a box..........of washed salad all ready for my lunch.
He doesn't eat salad!
Welcome to the world of lorry driving and no matter how much grief I get from any of you, I can only tell it like it is!
15 hours yesterday, home at 6.45pm, up again before 2am to start work by 3.30am and we all need a sarnie to keep us awake on the motorway!
We all do it, most of us just don't tell you, that's all.
Pat
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No salad for you today, Pat.
But at least you can eat his sandwiches.
I'd ring him and tell him how much you enjoyed them.
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He can have those tomorrow, I had a cheese sandwich:(
Pat
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I've just remembered that in the late fifties there was an Oxford undergraduate called Brown or Browne, John I think, who only had one arm and was an enthusiastic club racer. I met but didn't know him, didn't see him race, can't remember what he drove or how good he was or what became of him.
But I thought Wow! Cool! then and I think Chapeau! now.
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www.bmsad.co.uk/introduction-1/competitors---racing/fred-bloggs
"the accident where he lost his arm at Ipswich"
"Neil decided to go racing with his own machine and acquired a 3 litre Mk 1 Capri that had been prepared for Historic Saloon Car Racing."
I heard he had to threaten them with discrimination under the disability act before they'd grant him a competition licence.
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Think you might mean Stuart Lewis-Brown - worth Googling because I think I remember vaguely that he raced sports cars (at Le Mans??). Also think he might have been killed when racing.
Doing a Google now.
Phil
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Not him, no. A club racer, John Brown.
Several one-armed racers though it seems!
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Alex Zanardi raced with no legs, made a good job of it too.
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Oh please Zero, don't start them off on that !!! :-)
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Oops
I mean Archie Scott-Brown - confused him with Stuart Lewis-Evans.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archie_Scott_Brown
Scott Brown died at Spa in 1958 - remember him (vaguely!) from when I had a real interest in Sports Car racing/ GP in late '50s and early '60s. Those Lister Jags were something to behold, as were the Ferraris and "birdcage" Maseratis of the time.
Golden age of motor racing - but great sadness at times - so many died.
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One-handed driving style. - Pat
