Motoring Discussion > History of the car radio Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Dog Replies: 81

 History of the car radio - Dog
Radios are so much a part of the driving experience, it seems like cars have always had them. But they didn’t. Here’s the story.

One evening in 1929 two young men named William Lear and Elmer Wavering drove their girlfriends to a lookout point high above the Mississippi River town of Quincy, Illinois, to watch the sunset. It was a romantic night to be sure, but one of the women observed that it would be even nicer if they could listen to music in the car. Lear and Wavering liked the idea. Both men had tinkered with radios – Lear had served as a radio operator in the U.S. Navy during World War I – and it wasn’t long before they were taking apart a home radio and trying to get it to work in a car. But it wasn’t as easy as it sounds: automobiles have ignition switches, generators, spark plugs, and other electrical equipment that generate noisy static interference, making it nearly impossible to listen to the radio when the engine was running.

One by one, Lear and Wavering identified and eliminated each source of electrical interference. When they finally got their radio to work, they took it to a radio convention in Chicago. There they met Paul Galvin, owner of Galvin Manufacturing Corporation. He made a product called a “battery eliminator” a device that allowed battery-powered radios to run on household AC current. But as more homes were wired for electricity, more radio manufacturers made AC-powered radios. Galvin needed a new product to manufacture. When he met Lear and Wavering at the radio convention, he found it. He believed that mass-produced, affordable car radios had the potential to become a huge business.

Lear and Wavering set up shop in Galvin’s factory, and when they perfected their first radio, they installed it in his Studebaker. Then Galvin went to a local banker to apply for a loan. Thinking it might sweeten the deal, he had his men install a radio in the banker’s Packard. Good idea, but it didn’t work – half an hour after the installation, the banker’s Packard caught on fire. (They didn’t get the loan.) Galvin didn’t give up. He drove his Studebaker nearly 800 miles to Atlantic City to show off the radio at the 1930 Radio Manufacturers Association convention. Too broke to afford a booth, he parked the car outside the convention hall and cranked up the radio so that passing conventioneers could hear it. That idea worked – he got enough orders to put the radio into production.

That first production model was called the 5T71. Galvin decided he needed to come up with something a little catchier. In those days many companies in the phonograph and radio businesses used the suffix “ola” for their names – Radiola, Columbiola, and Victrola were three of the biggest. Galvin decided to do the same thing, and since his radio was intended for use in a motor vehicle, he decided to call it the Motorola.

But even with the name change, the radio still had problems: When Motorola went on sale in 1930, it cost about $110 uninstalled, at a time when you could buy a brand-new car for $650, and the country was sliding into the Great Depression. (By that measure, a radio for a new car would cost about $3,000 today.) In 1930 it took two men several days to put in a car radio – the dashboard had to be taken apart so that the receiver and a single speaker could be installed, and the ceiling had to be cut open to install the antenna. These early radios ran on their own batteries, not on the car battery, so holes had to be cut into the floorboard to accommodate them. The installation manual had eight complete diagrams and 28 pages of instructions.

Selling complicated car radios that cost 20 percent of the price of a brand-new car wouldn’t have been easy in the best of times, let alone during the Great Depression – Galvin lost money in 1930 and struggled for a couple of years after that. But things picked up in 1933 when Ford began offering Motorola's pre-installed at the factory. In 1934 they got another boost when Galvin struck a deal with B.F. Goodrich tire company to sell and install them in its chain of tire stores. By then the price of the radio, installation included, had dropped to $55. The Motorola car radio was off and running. (The name of the company would be officially changed from Galvin Manufacturing to “Motorola” in 1947.) In the meantime, Galvin continued to develop new uses for car radios. In 1936, the same year that it introduced push-button tuning, it also introduced the Motorola Police Cruiser, a standard car radio that was factory preset to a single frequency to pick up police broadcasts. In 1940 he developed with the first handheld two-way radio – the Handie-Talkie – for the U.S. Army.

A lot of the communications technologies that we take for granted today were born in Motorola labs in the years that followed World War II. In 1947 they came out with the first television to sell under $200. In 1956 the company introduced the world’s first pager; in 1969 it supplied the radio and television equipment that was used to televise Neil Armstrong’s first steps on the Moon. In 1973 it invented the world’s first handheld cellular phone. Today Motorola is one of the second-largest cell phone manufacturer in the world. And it all started with the car radio.

The two men who installed the first radio in Paul Galvin’s car, Elmer Wavering and William Lear, ended up taking very different paths in life. Wavering stayed with Motorola. In the 1950’s he helped change the automobile experience again when he developed the first automotive alternator, replacing inefficient and unreliable generators. The invention lead to such luxuries as power windows, power seats, and, eventually, air-conditioning.

Lear also continued inventing. He holds more than 150 patents. Remember eight-track tape players? Lear invented that. But what he’s really famous for are his contributions to the field of aviation. He invented radio direction finders for planes, aided in the invention of the autopilot, designed the first fully automatic aircraft landing system, and in 1963 introduced his most famous invention of all, the Lear Jet, the world’s first mass-produced, affordable business jet. (Not bad for a guy who dropped out of school after the eighth grade.)


 History of the car radio - -
That was an interesting little story D.

Doesn't seem that many years ago when you'd have to wait a couple of minutes for the valves to warm up, and turn the separate amplifier on.

Can't remember exactly which car was like that, i have a feeling it was my first car a Volvo 122S Amazon, which was an import from South Africa.

Sounded good though, radio as well as car.

On the subject of car audio, i don't like how things have gone now, i know current audios designed for an individual car maybe make them less prone to theft, but replacement when they fail is going to be eye watering, especially where on some they have integrated many more car controls onto the display.
 History of the car radio - Dog
Nothing comes cheap though gord, on todays cars - better orf with the ole Mrk 1 Capri :)

I wondered at first if that story was true (which it is) and what an amazing story = if at first you don't succeed, try, try, and try again!
 History of the car radio - corax
>> On the subject of car audio, i don't like how things have gone now, i
>> know current audios designed for an individual car

I don't like 'em, you're stuck with whatever the manufacturer gives you. No easy upgrades and expensive if the unit fails, which they do. OK I know you can get facia adapters for normal din sized head units to slot in, but on some cars they can look naff.

The good thing about having an older model is being able to slot a head unit in of your choice including DAB, something that has been slow on the uptake. How much would I have to pay for a DAB upgrade in my Avensis? £600.

I miss my 6music in the car.


Last edited by: corax on Mon 9 Jan 12 at 20:40
 History of the car radio - spamcan61
>>
>> I miss my 6music in the car.
>>
Well there's the clunky way of getting it:-

www.amazon.co.uk/PURE-Highway--Car-Radio-Transmitter/dp/B0012GLXMU/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1326141885&sr=1-1

They've been around the 45 quid mark for the last year, not sure why the price has gone up.

Given that my radios tend to last longer than my cars then I'm sticking to 90s bangers that still have a proper DIN slot.
 History of the car radio - corax
>> Well there's the clunky way of getting it:-
>>
>> www.amazon.co.uk/PURE-Highway--Car-Radio-Transmitter/dp/B0012GLXMU/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1326141885&sr=1-1

I've thought about one of these Spamcam, but the sound must be pretty mediocre.

>> Given that my radios tend to last longer than my cars then I'm sticking to
>> 90s bangers that still have a proper DIN slot.

Good idea, I think I might join you.
 History of the car radio - spamcan61
>> >> Well there's the clunky way of getting it:-
>> >>
>> >> www.amazon.co.uk/PURE-Highway--Car-Radio-Transmitter/dp/B0012GLXMU/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1326141885&sr=1-1
>>
>> I've thought about one of these Spamcam, but the sound must be pretty mediocre.
>>
Probably quite reasonable if you can use the line out to hard wire it to your existing car stereo, and you've actually got a strong enough DAB signal. The price of factory fit DAB radios is ridiculous, considering the likes of Tesco will flog you a portable DAB radio for around 30 quid or less.
 History of the car radio - R.P.
I have to say that PURE's kit is pretty good, we have an Elan II in the kitchen, lovely sound as clear as bell as well. My wife bought me a dainty little portable set for walkies' time - crystal clear and very involving.....
 History of the car radio - spamcan61
When it works my PURE DAB mini system sounds pretty good, from a customer service point of view I can't say I'm happy about a company that effectively washed its hands of design faults on a 2 year old product though. The ability to schedule recordings from an EPG, and the live pause are good though. Recordings are automatically tagged with details of the station/time/programme, which I though was pretty slick.
 History of the car radio - WillDeBeest
DAB enthusiasts leave me bewildered. Analogue FM is brilliantly cheap, easy, reliable and immediate; DAB offers a few more stations, but is otherwise none of those things. You can't even set your watch to the pips.

And yet everything that's available on DAB is also available online, often in a higher-quality stream. I've heard a million plugs on Radio 4 for what used to be BBC 7, then Radio 7, and is now called 4 Extra. I listen to a lot of its content but - and this is important - never at the time it's broadcast; my iPhone, Internet radios and Radio Downloader on the PC allow me to pull anything I want from the on-demand servers. Try that with a DAB set!

There may be one exception: Five Live Sports Extra is not actually a better medium for Test Match Special than R4LW but it doesn't get interrupted for God, Parliament or the Shipping Forecast, so I'm considering a Tivoli set for the kitchen with a DAB option. But it'll spend most of its life set to FM.
 History of the car radio - R.P.
I'm not that much of an enthusiast just rather fancy the shiny kit element, both sets were bought as presents - I must say the sound quality and reception/number of stations here is pretty good.
 History of the car radio - Iffy
...DAB offers a few more stations...

That's your answer.

And for many of us in rural locations, medium wave is hard work when it's dark, so 5 Live on DAB is a good option.

Ditto, but to a lesser extent, for the cricket on Extra.

 History of the car radio - Dog
>>...DAB offers a few more stations...

That's your answer<<

Not in some cases, my DAB reception here (Pure Evoke) is quite awful sometimes and I have to dig out my Roberts with it's medium wave.
 History of the car radio - Iffy
...Not in some cases...

My researches indicate DAB reception is very variable, even within a small area.

Sets also vary, I had one portable which wouldn't work on the kitchen bench, but a similarly priced set of different make worked fairly well.

Last edited by: Iffy on Tue 10 Jan 12 at 08:25
 History of the car radio - Dog
I've also got a www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-CMT-CPZ1DAB-Micro-System-Tuner/dp/B000VOTP7O on my desk alongside the PC playing through some rather excellent Monitor Audio Bronze B2's but - the DAB reception of BBC Radio Cornwall is orften impossible!
 History of the car radio - spamcan61
I just wish they'd turn the DAB power up, my PURE mini system has a single FM dipole in the loft as an aerial and has 100% solid reception, but the kitchen portable with its telescopic aerial degenerates into bubbling mud every few minutes. It can't really supercede FM until they sort that out.
Last edited by: spamcan61 on Tue 10 Jan 12 at 09:39
 History of the car radio - Dog
I used to get excellent reception back in Truro but 'up here' is a totally different kettle of fish, I'll have to get a roun tuit and buy one of those DAB antenna's

www.amazon.co.uk/Philex-27741-Indoor-DAB-Aerial/dp/B001GXQUHM/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1326188854&sr=1-1
 History of the car radio - spamcan61
Probably a bit better than the length of bell wire supplied with most systems, and not outrageously expensive. I had an unused FM aerial in the lift anyway, so just turned the thing through 90 degrees and ran a new length of co-ax to it.
 History of the car radio - Dog
I've actually got an external FM aerial which I've never used, so I might have a play with that, one day.
 History of the car radio - spamcan61
>> I've actually got an external FM aerial which I've never used, so I might have
>> a play with that, one day.
>>
I did try my external 5 element FM aerial first, but like most FM aerials it's set to receive horizontally polarised signals - i.e. the elements point left - right - and it didn't provide much improvement over the bell wire aerial provided. All DAB transmissions are vertically polarised, so the aerial needs to have elements pointing up - down, easy enough to achieve in the loft without doing a Rod Hull.

DAB is transmitted at roughly twice the frequency of FM, so although an aerial optimised frequency wise for FM isn't ideal they can work reasonably well on DAB, as I've found.
 History of the car radio - Dog
This is what my FM aerial is like ~
www.aerialshack.com/omni-aerial-p-300.html?osCsid=n0lk2fq34cd7e2vg99b44mg4s4

I bet if I fitted it vertically and straightened the element out, it would work with DAB :D
 History of the car radio - Zero
>> I bet if I fitted it vertically and straightened the element out, it would work
>> with DAB :D

Well good luck with trying to straighten that!

I made a dab dipole. Two lengths of wire coat hanger cut to the length of a dab 1/4 wave - 43 cms, fixed into a choc bloc connector, one up one down, connected with a spare length of 75 ohm coax. (up one to the centre, down to the braid) . Screwed to the facsia board.

Cost me nowt, 100% signal quality.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 10 Jan 12 at 11:43
 History of the car radio - Dog
Yes, I'm sure that would see an improvement over my bit of wire hanging from a curtain ring.

When we lived in Truro, the signal (TV) was so strong that (you may not believe this) I coud pull the coax lead out of the TV, hold the lead a few inches from the coax socket, and still get a good picture!
 History of the car radio - Dave_
>> When we lived in Truro, the signal (TV) was so strong that (you may not believe this) I coud pull the coax lead
>> out of the TV, hold the lead a few inches from the coax socket, and still get a good picture!

Our TV was like that when I was a kid - we lived in plain view of Sandy Heath transmitter mind you. When my dad unplugged the TV aerial lead in order to plug in the one from my Spectrum, the TV picture simply went a little bit grainy.

The rubbish Freeview signal up here has needed a new external aerial plus a booster to get a barely acceptable 50% strength at the box. I can't justify the cost of satellite or cable as I often don't switch the TV on from one week to the next.

My kitchen DAB radio (with a bell-wire aerial) will only receive the main BBC stations in listenable quality, although it lists another 10 channels which it has no hope of receiving.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Tue 10 Jan 12 at 12:52
 History of the car radio - Dog
My digital TV signal in Truro was actually too strong IMO, so I used a variable attenuator in conjunction with the signal strength/quality indicator on my Pana telly to weaken the signal strength without affecting the signal quality, I'm clever like that :D
 History of the car radio - spamcan61
The ultimate cheapskate solution for indoor/loft use is to just strip back the outer sleeve on a length of co-ax to the appropriate length (43 cm or whatever), pull the inner conductor through the outer braid, strip the inner back to this join, flatten out to a T shape, job done.
 History of the car radio - Dave_
>> ultimate cheapskate solution for indoor use is to just strip back the outer sleeve on a length of co-ax to the
>> appropriate length (43 cm or whatever), pull the inner conductor through the outer braid, strip the inner back to this join

How do I convert my single piece of bell-wire to coaxial though? I'm willing to take the radio to bits as it's only used for stations I can pick up in FM anyway.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Tue 10 Jan 12 at 13:29
 History of the car radio - spamcan61
Is it literally bell wire, or does it have a short telescopic aerial, in the manner of an old school car radio aerial? I've got a link somewhere to a discussion on various means of connecting proper aerials to portable radios I'll try and dig out.
 History of the car radio - Dave_
>> Is it literally bell wire, or does it have a short telescopic aerial

It's an 80cm length of single core, thin, cheap, black wire. Probably not even 1A rated.

At the moment it's held to the wall with a blob of Blu-Tack.

I'm more into my dance music, so although my DAB radio knows that Capital and Kiss exist, it only picks them up in a very "blocky" way. It 's the same on Absolute and Planet Rock though, so it's not all bad ;)
 History of the car radio - spamcan61
Seems PURE have introduced a fancy new version of the DAB car radio adaptor:-

www.reghardware.com/2012/01/11/review_pure_highway_300di_in_car_digital_radio_adapter/
 History of the car radio - spamcan61
>>
>> Doesn't seem that many years ago when you'd have to wait a couple of minutes
>> for the valves to warm up, and turn the separate amplifier on.
>>
Now you have to wait for the software to boot.... well OK maybe not so much car radios, but electronics generally.
 History of the car radio - rtj70
My car radio (sat nav) takes a few seconds to boot up. I can live with that.
 History of the car radio - Dave_
>> Now you have to wait for the software to boot.... well OK maybe not so much car radios, but electronics generally.

Some lorries are like that now - turn the key to "Start" and a full two seconds later, after many, many warning lights illuminate and several solenoids click, clunk and hiss, the starter motor will activate.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Tue 10 Jan 12 at 15:48
 History of the car radio - spamcan61
>>
>> A lot of the communications technologies that we take for granted today were born in
>> Motorola labs in the years that followed World War II. In 1947 they came out
>> with the first television to sell under $200. In 1956 the company introduced the world’s
>> first pager; in 1969 it supplied the radio and television equipment that was used to
>> televise Neil Armstrong’s first steps on the Moon. In 1973 it invented the world’s first
>> handheld cellular phone. Today Motorola is one of the second-largest cell phone >>manufacturer in the world. And it all started with the car radio.
>>
My geek claim to fame is that many moons ago I had to fly out to Silicon Valley for a meeting with Marty Cooper, generally know as the head of the team at Motorola that invented the cellphone:-

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Cooper_%28inventor%29

There is no limit to the crap i can bore people with at parties ;-)

 History of the car radio - henry k
When I worked at the BBC back in the early 60s, one of the wireman there was a mobile radio ham.
(There cannot have been many of them around.)
He had all his kit installed in a IIRC V8 pilot complete with a zonking great aerial bolted on the back/back bumper. He too went through the long process of eliminating all spurious interference with all sorts of suppressors.
 History of the car radio - R.P.
My ever so eccentric great uncle had a similar set up on his Ford Cortina Airflow - it was huge with a sort of cup shaped antenna on the top of it. A full sized PYE Westminster radio finished off the interior a treat.
 History of the car radio - bathtub tom
My brother had an old A40 Devon.

I remember the warm glow on the driver's cheeks as the valves beneath his seat heated up.
 History of the car radio - sherlock47
I am suprised that nobody has mentioned on here the early versions of the 'inverter' that was used for powering the HT of early valve mobile radios - before the 12v HT versions of valves became available. It was I believe called a 'rotary coverter' and consisted of a small electric 12v motor close-coupled to a dynamo all about 15" long and 4" in diameter. Googling so far has only found the (VERY) big brother versions - did it have another (trade?) name? IIRC many military versions were available - presumably ex WWII- during the early 1950s with 24v inputs.

There were some other electrical 'mechanical' inverters used with sealed units to produce HT using transformers, but once again my memory has failed me as to what they were called!
 History of the car radio - Cliff Pope
>> It was I believe called a 'rotary coverter'
>> and consisted of a small electric 12v motor close-coupled to a dynamo all about 15"
>> long and 4" in diameter.
>>

I used to have one of those. I kept it for years, thinking it must have a use one day, but of course it never did, so I think it must have been cleared out.
Too much stuff, never enough sheds.
 History of the car radio - Zero
I built my own car radio from a kit, A 4 bush button AM/FM jobbie from somewhere in Ealing I think
 History of the car radio - sherlock47
>>>I built my own car radio from a kit, A 4 bush button AM/FM jobbie from somewhere in Ealing I think<<<

I think that the first one I built used 12v HT valves, with a single Power transistor output stage. It was kit built, but before the days of FM!
 History of the car radio - Pat
Two DAB's in this house, both just with the thin wire indoor aerial they supply and a perfect signal, I couldn't live without Planet Rock!

Pat
 History of the car radio - WillDeBeest
But Planet Rock - like Iffy's Radio Bloke Five Live - is available online, with on-demand options that DAB can't match. Fine if you already have a DAB radio, but hardly a reason to buy one now.

The low penetration of DAB isn't for want of effort on the part of the BBC and the government; it's because it's a medium whose time has already passed. Unlike FM radio, analogue TV was holding the service back in terms of quality - not merely quantity - so there was a reasonable, if not watertight, case for phasing it out.

Even digital airborne TV may be effectively obsolete by the time it becomes ubiquitous; we find we watch as many programmes through the new HD iplayer as through our Freesat recorder. Data networks, and the smartphones and tablets that make them most accessible, are only going to get better, cheaper and more pervasive in the decade to come.
 History of the car radio - Iffy
...But Planet Rock - like Iffy's Radio Bloke Five Live - is available online...

The wireless broadband at the caravan is rarely up to streaming audio, medium wave is a dead loss, so DAB it is.

Also, sound quality - even from the super Mac - is not brilliant, and I don't want the computer perched on the bedside table for night time listening.

Access to a high speed internet connection is far from universal, so there will be plenty of others for whom online radio is a non-starter.



Last edited by: Iffy on Tue 10 Jan 12 at 14:26
 History of the car radio - Pat
I think I'm saying the same as Iffy but the PC is in my office with Radio2 for traffic news in the background.

DAB is in other parts of the house for chilling out to:)

Pat
 History of the car radio - corax
>> But Planet Rock - like Iffy's Radio Bloke Five Live - is available online, with
>> on-demand options that DAB can't match. Fine if you already have a DAB radio, but
>> hardly a reason to buy one now.

It's more convenient. I don't want to have to switch the computer on every time I want to listen to the radio. To listen to DAB on a smartphone means you have to be online all the time - runs the battery down quickly.

Since I've discovered 6music I don't want to listen to the old stations anymore unless they play decent stuff. 6music play the stuff I like - rock, indie, alternative and they will play the less well known tracks on albums rather than the same couple of well worn numbers every day. They will also play plenty of new stuff, and, wonder of wonders, they have access to the whole John Peel back catalogue and are not afraid to (use it) play it on request. All the DJ's are really into the music rather than just being chat hosts, most of them are ex band members.

I'll say this for FM - the sound quality is better to my ears, warmer if I switch between the two. DAB is a bit thin and brittle, much like the difference between records and CD's.

Just have to thank Iffy for introducing me to Amazing Radio - a decent alternative even if the sound quality leaves a bit to be desired :)
Last edited by: corax on Tue 10 Jan 12 at 16:37
 History of the car radio - WillDeBeest
It's more convenient. I don't want to have to switch the computer on every time I want to listen to the radio.

Of course not, so don't! Use an Internet radio instead - comparable in price to a good DAB set - or use the smartphone or tablet that you keep permanently on anyway. I never use a computer for listening.

To listen to DAB on a smartphone means you have to be online all the time - runs the battery down quickly.

No faster than a DAB set runs down its batteries, assuming you use wifi and not 3G. Better is to dock it - I often listen to an iPlayer or Reciva stream on my iPhone through a simple Logitech speaker dock, which charges the phone as it plays.

My point earlier was that if you bought a DAB radio ten years ago, it makes sense to go on using it, limited as I think it is; but if you have only FM now and are considering a digital future, DAB has been left behind by the capabilities of IP delivery.
 History of the car radio - corax
>> No faster than a DAB set runs down its batteries,

I have a separates DAB/FM tuner, no batteries.

>>if you only have FM now and are considering a digital future, DAB has been left behind by the capabilities of IP delivery.

We got together at work and bought a DAB set to replace a crackly FM set for £24. No crackle and easy to tune. That's one situation where a cheap DAB radio made sense.

 History of the car radio - Zero

>> you have only FM now and are considering a digital future, DAB has been left
>> behind by the capabilities of IP delivery.

IP delivery is far from Dab quality, the bit rate is lower and the compression higher on the internet than the best MUXs on DAB.
 History of the car radio - R.P.
Can you take an internet radio with you on a 6 mile walk ?
 History of the car radio - spamcan61
>> Can you take an internet radio with you on a 6 mile walk ?
>>

Only if you've got continuous high data rate mobile coverage, and a really unlimited mobile data allowance. That's less likely than decent DAB coverage for most people.

 History of the car radio - R.P.
Plenty of DABness around here - very little Dataness ! I love my little DAB radio !
 History of the car radio - Iffy
...Plenty of DABness around here - very little Dataness ! I love my little DAB radio !...

Yes, I feel that WDB is trying gamely, but not very successfully, to push water uphill on this one.

 History of the car radio - R.P.
Well I did, sort of, agree with him until the day my DAB Pure Elan lit up ! Good sound, not tied to the router.
Last edited by: R.P. on Tue 10 Jan 12 at 19:27
 History of the car radio - corax
>> Well I did, sort of, agree with him until the day my DAB Pure Elan
>> lit up !

Steady on, you'll be going to bed with it next :)

What with that, and the impending joy of the forthcoming Volvo, and you may well burst your boiler...
Last edited by: corax on Tue 10 Jan 12 at 19:33
 History of the car radio - R.P.
My boiler failed in October....:-(
 History of the car radio - spamcan61
>> My boiler failed in October....:-(
>>
Plenty more available via our current selection of site adverts......
 History of the car radio - Zero
I find orange boilers dont fit in with much common decor tho.
 History of the car radio - R.P.
Faulty PCB apparently, now fixed !
 History of the car radio - Iffy
...Faulty PCB apparently...

A boiler with a PCB?

Always knew you were posh.

 History of the car radio - R.P.
Well according to the very nice plumber (as he is one)/Heating engineer - it's a Grant and it has two !
 History of the car radio - Dog
>>it's a Grant and it has two !<<

Must be an oiler then Shirley, we've got a Grant boiler, great piece of kit .. @ a price!
 History of the car radio - Iffy
...great piece of kit ...

Isn't RP's house a new one?

If so, the 'great piece of kit' hasn't taken long to break down.

 History of the car radio - Dog
Probably a con-densing boiler, mine is just a combi.
 History of the car radio - R.P.
No it was a condensing oiler - the house had been standing empty for a couple of years after completion, sadly the boiler was out of warranty.
 History of the car radio - Iffy
...the house had been standing empty for a couple of years after completion...

That goes some way to explain the failure.

Boilers - like car air conditioning systems - need regular use to perform well.

 History of the car radio - R.P.
It's odd that you should say that - the boilers were run over the winter to keep the houses warmed and commissioned. Both neighbouring properties are still empty, and the condensing exhausts are clearly visible tonight. Basically no expense has been spared in keeping them running - we inherited a 1/2 a tank of oil and a 100 quid on the meter (pre-payment when we moved in) - according to "Dave" the plumber (are they all called Dave ?) the PCBs were known to be faulty by Grant who have issued two new versions since our boiler was installed. An expensive if easy fix - but hey it works fine now and seems very economical.
 History of the car radio - Dave_
>> IP delivery is far from DAB quality, the bit rate is lower and the compression higher on the internet
>> than the best MUXes on DAB

My phone streams radio at 128kpbs on wifi and 48kbps on 3G - autodetected. My DAB radio uses 128kbps, so no difference there. Most of the music I download music is at 128kbps as well. Whether listening to the radio at home or on the move there will be background noise, and I find that bitrate to be good enough to listen to without it grating.

>> Only if you've got continuous high data rate mobile coverage, and a really unlimited mobile data allowance.

I'm lucky, I have both :) I've been on Three for a few years so I get their All-You-Can-Eat data and ten times more texts/minutes than I'll ever need for just under 25 quid a month. I could save another 4 quid if I paid it by d/d.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Tue 10 Jan 12 at 19:36
 History of the car radio - Zero
>My phone streams radio at 128kpbs

Entirely depends on who you are listening to, its sometimes as low as 48-64 kb, your 128kbps is probably rate adaptive anyway. Radio 3 DAB MUX at Crystal Palace is 192kbps
 History of the car radio - WillDeBeest
Radio 3 DAB MUX at Crystal Palace is 192kbps.

Radio 3 is playing at 328kb/s on the Roberts Internet radio in my kitchen, although I still prefer FM for listening 'live'. Planet Rock, sadly, seems to be 64k.

I agree that the world is likely to move away from dedicated Internet radio devices, but that's less to with the medium itself than with the increasing availability of connected multimedia devices like the iPad. I suspect the next one I buy will be an iPad with a dock like the Pure Contour 100Di (which, oddly enough has a DAB tuner as well as FM.) All the features like 'live pause' are possible with an IP stream, and could be programmed quite easily into a device with onboard storage, which my Roberts doesn't have.

I can stream on the move (although not in the car) through the Reciva app on the iPhone, without overstressing my £15 a month data plan. Even high-quality audio is far less data-intensive than video, and mobile data will only get cheaper as smartphones become the norm.

I'll stop arguing there. I accept there are listening niches to which DAB is better fitted than IP. I may even buy a radio with DAB myself this year. If it ends up set to DAB more than FM you'll be the first to know.
}:---)

 History of the car radio - spamcan61
>> Radio 3 DAB MUX at Crystal Palace is 192kbps.
>>
>> Radio 3 is playing at 328kb/s on the Roberts Internet radio in my kitchen, although
>> I still prefer FM for listening 'live'. Planet Rock, sadly, seems to be 64k.
>>
That seems to be the default for Planet Rock now, but there is a 128k stream (MP3 or WMA) available, which I manually added to my internet radios, as the 64k stream sounds horrible - worse than the same nominal bitrate streams on DAB (not Planet Rock)

On DAB Planet Rock recently dropped from 128k to 112k, I must admit I didn't notice until I realised that my live pause buffer capacity had increased from just under 10 minutes to over 11.
 History of the car radio - spamcan61
>>
>> >> you have only FM now and are considering a digital future, DAB has been
>> left
>> >> behind by the capabilities of IP delivery.
>>
>> IP delivery is far from Dab quality, the bit rate is lower and the compression
>> higher on the internet than the best MUXs on DAB.
>>

Absolute Classic rock have a big fat 1 megabit stream available:-

network.absoluteradio.co.uk/core/audio/oggflac/live.pls?service=ac

Overall my 'radio' listening is pretty much 50/50 split between DAB and internet, at the same nominal bitrate I'd say DAB sounds better than internet (assuming an MP3 stream), maybe that's down to latency, not really sure. My DAB radio still has more features than nternet radio - back to live pause and EPG based recordings for example - internet radio hardware doesn't seem to have progressed in terms of features or new HW availability over the last couple of years.
 History of the car radio - Armel Coussine
Of course now we value our tape and CD slots and FM radio. But the best car radio by far for warmth of tone and general excellence was the standard fitted valve mono radio - actually more of a wireless I suppose - in my 1953 Bentley. Took about a minute to warm up and come on, but was always worth the wait.
 History of the car radio - R.P.
I still call my various radios wirelesses - nice old fashioned feel to that word despite being hi-jacked by johnny come lately IT stuff.
Last edited by: R.P. on Wed 11 Jan 12 at 18:18
 History of the car radio - Bigtee
As a kid in my grandads Capri the radio casette had a button that would pick up CB radio and this was the step that got me hooked into Cb's back then when i was 8 so Christmas came santa brought me one.

Radios today would be better with digital/anolouge built in not sepperate and the choice of lw/am/fm.

Alpine was in my old Astra now that souned very nice with standard speakers could crank that up loud wish it was as easy to put one in this car.
 History of the car radio - R.P.
American cars I've rented have had Satellite radios - why isn't this available in the UK ?
 History of the car radio - Zero
>> American cars I've rented have had Satellite radios - why isn't this available in the
>> UK ?

Because we don't need it. I agree satellite radio is great in US cars, but we have as much, in fact more, diverse coverage with mostly good reception on FM.

Moreover its actually quite expensive.

satelliteradiousa.com/satellite_radio_cost_subscriptions.html

 History of the car radio - CGNorwich
Because in the UK FM coverage is very high. A great deal of the USA has no FM coverage
 History of the car radio - Bigtee
The uk has relay stations for fm with the likes of the BBC the United States with the country so large it's going to be very expensive hence AM has been used in the past which covers a large distance especially come night time.
 History of the car radio - R.P.
I thought the whole point of DAB was that FM was being switched off
 History of the car radio - Zero
But as its using the FM sites, the coverage will be the same when it does.

We have good coverage because we are heavily populated. I drove in the states last time for an hour and a half - say 110 miles, without seeing a single dwelling.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 12 Jan 12 at 15:21
 History of the car radio - spamcan61
>> I thought the whole point of DAB was that FM was being switched off
>>

They've talked about it, and at some point the last government set a 'target' of 2015 to do it, but FM is so ubiquitous now that any talk of a switchoff has gone quiet.
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