While our car is in the car hospital having the dent repaired (caused by white van man failing to apply his handbrake, whilst parked up the hill a way, thus demolishing half our front garden wall + aforesaid dent), we have been supplied with a loan car, FOC.
The loaner is the latest, top of its range, Vauxhall Meriva - a vile thing IMO, with a hard jiggly ride, uncomfortable seats, more electronics than one can shake a stick at and worst of all - an electronic parking brake.
I have yet to work out how a smooth hill start is possible with three feet being needed. One for the go pedal, one for the clutch and one for the blooming foot-brake before the electronic thingy may be released.
Additionally we sat for at least five minutes trying to start the bally thing in the supermarket car park before twigging that not only do you have to have your foot on the foot-brake, but also the clutch pedal must needs be depressed.
Would I buy one if I had the money? No way, especially considering the over £18K list price!
A vile machine.
Last edited by: Roger on Sat 28 Jan 12 at 13:20
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Someone on here told me you don't have to have your foot on the brake to release the parking brake in an Insignia, just pull away and it will release itself. I presume the Meriva's the same.
It must prematurely wear the clutch, pulling against the brake while the blasted thing thinks about releasing!
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Not driven one, but have driven a lot of insignia's as hire cars. In those you just pull away with the handbrake on and it releases automatically with no input.
IIRC they also have hill hold where you keep you foot on the brake, and as you go to pull away it holds the brakes for a second or so to allow you to engage the clutch - faultless hill starts!
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is there a backup if the electric parking brake fails, like if you got electric problems ecu problems
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Check the manual - the BMWs' rear brakes hang on for a moment in situations that you describe.
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This all does rather beg the question as to why these things are seen as a desirable or necessary feature though doesn't it? Not much wrong with a good old fashioned handbrake in my view. The one on my Merc is just silly. Odd really as Germans tend to be quite logical in engineering matters.
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>> This all does rather beg the question as to why these things are seen as
>> a desirable or necessary feature though doesn't it?
Gives you more space in the centre console if there isn't a handbrake lever apparently.
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Sledgehammer to crack a nut though isn't it?
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>> Sledgehammer to crack a nut though isn't it?
Well in the case of the merc you need somewhere to put your mini scales and other drug dealing paraphernalia
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 28 Jan 12 at 16:17
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At least you didn't mention the taxi meter !
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>> I have yet to work out how a smooth hill start is possible with three
>> feet being needed.
Is the handbook not in the glovebox?
www.vauxhall.co.uk/manuals.html if it isn't.
A quick RTFM says
Drive away function
Depressing clutch pedal (manual transmission) or engaging D (automatic transmission) and then depressing the accelerator pedal releases the electrical parking brake automatically. This is not possible when the switch is pulled at the same time.
This function also helps driving away on inclines.
Aggressive drive away may reduce life time of wear parts.
Hill start assist
The system helps driving away on inclines.
If the foot brake pedal is released on inclines the vehicle is hold for 2 seconds preventing unintended movement. If the vehicle is launched earlier, the brake is automatically released.
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Ludicrous, a set of instructions how to set off when using an electric parking brake, and a 2 second hill hold, don't people learn how to drive any more?.
How did we manage all these years with the good old cable jobbie wherever the blinking handle or release happened to be, balanced take off and junctions with just enough throttle, clutch, footbrake, handbrake balance to move safely swiftly and sympathetically.
BT above pointed out something i've wondered about since i started delivering these white elephants, you have to apply via the clutch slightly more power every single time to get the car to release the brake, this must add up over time, ''not to worry it'll be out of warranty that doesn't apply to wear and tear anyway by the time its shot''
One of my ex workmates did a quick delivery of an Insignia last year, handbrake not applied properly, premature ejection from above the truck cab following a sharp brake.;)
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I have driven three models of cars with an Electronic Parking Break:
- Pug 3008
- Vauxhall Insignias
- VW Passat CC
The 3008 was the first and I asked the hire company a few questions about how to disengage it and they didn't know the answers. Despite delivering them! I asked did it disengage automatically (they didn't think so - but it did) and was there hill hold (it held for a few seconds - but they didn't know).
The hire firm driver actually told me to put my foot on the brake and then release the parking break and then dip the clutch, put it into gear etc. Hence me asking about hill hold.
The Insignia did auto release too (so will the Meriva probably), as does the VW. Although the VW will only auto-release if the driver has the seatbelt on. Otherwise you have to press the brake pedal and release the parking break yourself.
If you've got the seat belt on it also engages the parking brake when you're stopped when you take the belt off. And it engages automatically when you turn off the ignition.
The auto-hold on the Passat CC is quite good. Come to a stop and take foot off the brake and it will not roll forward or backwards. Makes creeping in a DSG version difficult at times.
Would I prefer a manual parking brake - probably. But I can live with the VW system as it's quite good. But it means the next time you have to use a manual parking brake you might forget!
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>> But it means the next time you have to use a manual parking brake you might forget!
I did that when I borrowed a friend's Lexus, going from a car with no handbrake between the seats because it's electronic to a car with no handbrake between the seats because it's where the clutch should be does make that mistake quite common, I would imagine.
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When these things first came out on the Passat, I recall hearing from a bloke who worked for one of the big multinational Car Hire companies.
They'd stopped buying Passats. Too many people never twigged to the auto-release and their Passats used to be returned with a shunt in the rear from a failed attempt to heel-and-toe a hill start rather too often.
Reading the handbook's all well and good, assuming:
a) It's there (often missing on a fleet car).
b) It's written in a language that the driver can actually read(!)
c) The driver can find it (you'd be amazed the lengths some manufacturers go to to hide the thing[1]).
d) The driver actually bothers to look for it in the first place.
[1] I had a hired something-or-other (possibly Merc??) for two weeks before idly twiddling something in the glovebox which caused a flap to drop, presenting a manual I didn't know it had. Of course, the instructions on how to access the secret manual flap were in the manual.......
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>> >> I have yet to work out how a smooth hill start is possible with
>> three
>> >> feet being needed.
>>
>> Is the handbook not in the glovebox?
No, it isn't!
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>>>> Is the handbook not in the glovebox?
>> No, it isn't!
Common for hire cars not to come with the handbook as it will disappear.
Roger I think you'll find the brake automatically disengages. If it doesn't then it might just need turning on in the car setup.
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My Alhambra has a "fly-off" handbrake - something I had retro-fitted on my (original) Group1 racing Mini in, oh, about 1963!
(So did my (original) 970 Cooper S which I used in club saloon car racing in the mid1960s).
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I've got one them in my Kia when I use it on autotests.
It's called a self-tapper, screwed down the side of the button.
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Raises another question or two . . .
Can you take your test in a car with an electronic parking brake?
If you take your test in a car with an electronic parking brake should you be allowed to drive cars with manual hand brakes?
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And can you take a test in a car with auto hill-hold? Hill starts are very easy...
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...premature ejection from above the truck cab...
...known in the haulage trade as 'shooting your load'?
A friend has a (diesel, manual) Passat estate and likes the auto-hold function. He once drove me smoothly and discreetly through the hilly, busy streets of High Wycombe.
The Volvo system I've tried - twice now, in an automatic V70 and a manual S60 - seems not have an auto-hold but does self-release. I took the easy way with the auto - like 99% of auto drivers - and just held it with the footbrake. But that's not an option with the manual.
In simple situations it's not a problem, but I found myself at a mini-roundabout at the top of a motorway off-slip with a steady stream of traffic coming from my right. Familiar situation: gap appears, lift clutch, prepare to move, but gap closes so drop clutch again and wait. Easy with a handbrake - it stays on throughout and I can release it at the last moment; but the S60 would release its electro-brake the moment the clutch bit, leaving nothing to hold the car when I had to change my mind. Really quite alarming and unpleasant.
I have no idea whether this is after-the-fact rationalization, but the Volvo salesman I spoke to on Saturday told us that the lack of mechanism in the centre console allows Volvo to make it collapsible, creating space for the SIPS to move either seat inwards in a side impact, which does at least make a kind of sense. But if it has to be a button, couldn't it at least go on the steering wheel?
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leaving nothing to hold the car when I had to change
>> my mind. Really quite alarming and unpleasant.
Horrible idea, as you rightly say with a proper automatic it's not needed anyway, and a fitting too far IMO unless the oh so simple anti roll back as fitted to Subarus, the problem with all of these is that people lose the 'automatic' ability to be in control of their cars at all times, end up relying on it and get caught out.
Some trucks with automated manual boxes now have similar hill hold functions, recipe for disater IMO.
Iveco was the worse so far experienced, the automated manual hesitates and takes longer to sort itself out at a junction and re-engage than the hill hold allows, so hill hold releases and no drive taken up, chocolate teapot and should be banned from industrial vehicles which should in theory be driven by tested licenced capable drivers.
I ignore the thing if fitted and turn it off if possible.
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>> Can you take your test in a car with an electronic parking brake?
Yes
www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/LearnerAndNewDrivers/PracticalTest/DG_4022543
Vehicles fitted with an electronic parking brake
You can use your vehicle for your test if it is fitted with an electronic parking brake.
>> And can you take a test in a car with auto hill-hold?
Yes again.
From the DSA's book:
6.12 HILL ASSIST
Many new vehicles are being fitted with a 'hill assist' device as standard. This system allows a driver, when moving off on an uphill or downhill gradient, a couple of seconds to move their foot from the footbrake to the accelerator before the device releases the footbrake automatically. If this device is fitted drivers still have to coordinate the controls and take the correct observation when moving off; consequently vehicles fitted with such a device are suitable for the the practical driving test.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 30 Jan 12 at 10:29
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> 6.12 HILL ASSIST...
>...vehicles fitted with such a device are suitable for the the practical driving test.
Oh that's just great! We all know what's coming next, don't we?
Eu-mandated hill assist on all vehicles to stem the rising tide of hill start accidents caused by a neverending stream of newly qualified drivers who've got no idea of how to drive properly getting into cars without it.
Personally I think that everyone should be forced to take the practical test in a Morris Minor or similar. Anything lacking toys and also having a crash 1st gear. Test to include at least one trip up Porlock Hill, Rosedale Chimney Bank or similar. That'll get the pass rates down to something sensible.
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Vauxhall - Electric Parking Brakes - bathtub tom
