| Motoring Discussion > Q for truckers re Driver timers | Miscellaneous |
| Thread Author: PhilW | Replies: 22 |
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New Fri 3 Feb 12 18:16
Q for truckers re Driver timers - PhilW
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I know there are a few truckers on here (pda, GB, Harleyman, Davetdci etc) and wonder if I could ask for a little advice. Today dropped off my transporter at depot and got rather a "telling off" (written warning actually) for exceeding my driving hours yesterday. Had a long day including drops and pick ups at Edinburgh, Dumbarton, Dumfries, Kendal, Leeds and home to E Midlands. Despite using my driver clock thing and my stopwatch for timing driving hours and stops, downloading my digi tacho card showed that I had exceeded my hours by about 15 mins (don't know how or where or when!). I thought I had about 5 mins to spare - thought I had done well! Would like to avoid this in future! Have seen "Driver Timer" advertised, (and seen it on PDA site Pat www.pda-uk.org/members/products_services.htm ) and wondered if it is worth the £28 it costs and if it's easy to use. Or whether you have any other suggestions - thanks PhilW edited, as link didn't work because of the closed bracket right at the end of it Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 4 Feb 12 at 00:16
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New Fri 3 Feb 12 19:55
Q for truckers re Driver timers - Dave_
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This is a recognised issue with digital tachographs Phil. They record activity in discrete units of 1 minute, so if you drive for 1 minute and 1 second it adds 2 minutes to your total driving time. They over-state driving time and under-state work/POA/break time in my experience, so a lot of stops/starts during the day could easily add an extra 20 minutes to the recorded driving time. I always set the alarm on my mobile phone to let me take 16/31/46 minutes' break just to be on the safe side. Depending on which brand of digitacho your transporter is fitted with, and where on the dashboard it's sited (Iveco Dailys have it down by the driver's left ankle, annoyingly) a single press of any of the four direction keys should display your current total driving time and break time since the last 45 minute rest. The menu keys change their function so that this is the only information you can access whilst in motion, for safety reasons. Furthermore, at 4h15m driving time the backlight on the tachograph screen will start to flash and the screen will display "Driving Time 4h15m", warning you it's time to park up. There is normally a warning light on the instruments (sometimes just a yellow or red "T" in the speedo) which comes on at the same time as the flashing tacho screen. At any time whilst the vehicle is at rest, you can select "Printout", then "Driver 1", then "24h Day" with today's date to get a printout of your activity up until that point to pore over and plan ahead from. Many vehicles with a trip computer will also have a function somewhere to display driving/break time information on the dashboard screen. I used to use a "Big Timer", which was simply a digital countdown timer bought from a market which could be set to 4:30, 0:45 or whatever you needed, and would bleep loudly enough to wake the dead when it reached 0:00. Since digitachos I've relied on the readout in the vehicle and erred on the side of caution. Some of my colleagues have the £28 driver timer mentioned above, and they swear by it. Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Fri 3 Feb 12 at 19:58
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New Fri 3 Feb 12 20:17
Q for truckers re Driver timers - -
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The problem with the digi recorders is that they record extra time every time you stop. Every time you move even 30 yards in traffic the machine adds about a minute to your driving time. It can be a real problem in tailbacks, you sometimes see trucks leaving a sizeable gap whilst all around are edgeing constantly forward every 30 seconds or so, some of our trucks have dashboard driving hours displays which they read from the digi, move a few times around the yard a total of 5 minutes driving can easily see 20 minutes recorded. I used to keep an eye on my times using a good old Salter Big Timer kitchen countdown timer when on the cars, now i luckily have a proper job so don't have to fit 2 days work in one. I haven't bought any of these fancy driver timer things, so don't know if it can add on time as the EU directive digital recorder does. The best thing to do is to estimate add on time bearing in mind the sort of journey you are doing, then when you are getting within an hour of overdoing it, get a print out and see what the machine says. If you have a print out for the day in question, write on the back an explanation, such as heavy traffic small movements which added up too much time due to digi anomaly or something....you are always best to be up front with VOSA and show them you tried to do the right thing, they are not unreasonable they know about these things better than we do, so try and get that print out and do a second print out so you can keep a record in your pack after you've handed the other in after a month, complete with truthful explanation overleaf. One firm i worked for banned anyone from driving over 9 hours, the 10 hour drives are the ones not to exceed, the powers don't take kindly to them. Trouble is as you've found Phil its too easy for it to happen, would you firm have come out and met you or would they have been happy for you to park up 30 miles from home?, or are they like most pushing for you to do the impossible and then getting shirty when the impossible can't be done...they are covering their backsides by the warning letter in case VOSA pull you up and find the overdrive, or pay them a visit...discipline is seen to be done. Incidentally to prove just how reasonable VOSA are, i had a blow out on the M11 one evening with the transporter, odd size tyre which had the tyre bloke driving all over Anglia to find one, it took so long that i ended up doing an 18 hour day, nothing i could do about it. Was on tacho then, i wrote an explanation on the reverse, the truth. Sure enough the following week i got pulled in for a weight check at Risby, they had all me tachos and as i handed them over i told them there was a dodgy one from last week and briefly explained. They were fine about it, he said they could see that i'd been stick and that my subsequent driving time they could tell i'd slowed down at laybys trying to find somewhere to park at 11pm, most importantly they said that they could see it wasn't my normal practice. I think the most important thing with VOSA is not to as some drivers do, assume they are idiots....they are far from that, be up front with them and tell them the truth if you've made a genuine cock up and they are usually OK, try and fob 'em off or teat them as fools and oh boy are you barking up the wrong tree. Hope all that rubbish makes some sense..;) Ha Dave's another ex Big Time timer..;) Last edited by: gordonbennet on Fri 3 Feb 12 at 20:19
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New Fri 3 Feb 12 21:40
Q for truckers re Driver timers - PhilW
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Thanks very much for those detailed replies and the time you have taken over them - much appreciated - will print out, study and reply tomorrow if that's OK. I'm a "Big Time" timer driver also - but couldn't work out why I was over yet my "Big Timer" said I was within!! Thanks again Phil |
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New Sat 4 Feb 12 09:28
Q for truckers re Driver timers - Dave_
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>> you sometimes see truckers leaving a sizeable gap Cheers for that GB, I've tried that on the Brighton run this morning and got out of Crawley on 4h02, compared to 4h18 at the same point last week. Which means I'm taking my 30 minutes' rest up the A23 at Hooley instead of just before the M23 at j10. Which in turn means I ought to get Croydon and Wandsworth done and back to Leicester in one hit instead of stopping at Lutterworth for another 45 minutes like last time. Doubly useful given today's weather forecast! Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Sat 4 Feb 12 at 09:29
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New Sat 4 Feb 12 12:03
Q for truckers re Driver timers - Pat
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I can only agree with GB and Dave above and they have covered it all, I think. Phil, was it actually a written disciplinary warning or just a warning of Tacho infringements for you to sign to say they had been brought to your attention? I would have expected it to be the latter unless this is something you're doing on a regular basis. The new generation of Digi tacho, the DTCO1381, now records whatever activity is greatest in any minute as just that, so if you were driving for 3 seconds and waiting to move for 57 seconds no driving would be recorded. The current ones can record two minutes driving for the same situation. The bad news is they are only fitted on new vehicles from October2011. Drivers are reporting time saving of up to 45 minutes driving time on any particular days work. Pat Last edited by: pda on Sat 4 Feb 12 at 12:04
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New Sat 4 Feb 12 18:18
Q for truckers re Driver timers - Dave_
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Update for GB, I made it but it was tight... 4h28 when I arrived at the diesel pump, and another 2min recorded to park it up! So 4h30 dead on the second run. I shall have to try and find a red route loading bay in Croydon to take my 30min rest in next time ;) >> The new generation of Digi tacho ... now records whatever activity is greatest in any minute I wish mine had done that today, it took me 3/4 hour to do half a mile in Wandsworth because they were still sticking the burst water main back together from yesterday. I'll pass your info on to our CPC trainer Pat, that's the kind of interesting nugget he often comes out with :) |
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New Sat 4 Feb 12 20:25
Q for truckers re Driver timers - PhilW
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Thanks Dave, GB and pda; very informative and educational. I suppose one of basic probs is that I have never received any instruction on use of the digi tacho - just told to stick the card in and get on with it! I reckon that my probs yesterday stemmed from a) Hold ups on A720 Edinburgh by-pass at 8-30ish in morning. Stop/start traffic for about half an hour. b) Same between Bradford and Leeds at about 5pm (was due at porsche Leeds at 5 pm but didn't arrive until 6pm - much of that extra hour was spent creeping a few yards at a time. c) Hold ups/stop start on M1 between Leeds and Wakefield 6.15pm ish to the extent that I took a 45 min break at Woolley Edge to let traffic die down a bit. I then calculated that if I got home by 9.01 I would be within time. Got home at 8.45, happy that I had got rid of car to Porsche Leeds, didn't have to spend another night out and that all I had to do Friday was nip to Nottingham to drop a 335. Will, in future, act on advice you have all offered above - very helpful - thanks. With regard to specific questions :- " would your firm have come out and met you or would they have been happy for you to park up 30 miles from home?, or are they like most pushing for you to do the impossible and then getting shirty when the impossible can't be done...they are covering their backsides by the warning letter in case VOSA pull you up and find the overdrive, or pay them a visit...discipline is seen to be done." No they wouldn't come out to meet me - they were all long before out of the office and at home or in pub! They would be quite happy for me to spend an extra night out 30 miles from home - I wanted to get rid of the Leeds car - it was a brand new 997 4S cab - which I just did. Thought did occur to me to park up the truck, unload the 335 and drive that home (it was a "driven" job which I picked up on my way past Dumfries) but that would have meant leaving the truck, trailer and easily nickable ramps unattended overnight. Anyway, I thought I had time to get home. Yes, like most, they expect the impossible and if you manage the impossible they give you even more impossible jobs. (Didn't even manage to have a coffee until Woolley Edge at 6.30pm in my efforts to get jobs done! Having started day at 7am near Haddington, E Lothian) "Phil, was it actually a written disciplinary warning or just a warning of Tacho infringements for you to sign to say they had been brought to your attention?" Not sure until I get it on Monday Pat - suspect they will do both in order to cover themselves and ensure that the blame is all mine should VOSA find out. It's the first time I have gone over the hours and, in fact, they gave me a telling off a few weeks ago when I stopped at Abington services on M74 after 8 hours driving and they said I should have gone on to next services. The fact that I completed all jobs the next day didn't seem to count! Can't win can you!! "new generation of Digi tacho, the DTCO1381" Wish I had one of those - my truck was new last May! Thanks again for help Phil Last edited by: PhilW on Sat 4 Feb 12 at 20:26
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New Sun 5 Feb 12 05:57
Q for truckers re Driver timers - Pat
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>>They would be quite happy for me to spend an extra night out 30 miles from home - I wanted to get rid of the Leeds car - it was a brand new 997 4S cab - which I just did.<<< No no no! Your employers have just covered themselves with that statement and you have taken the blame:) The fact that they would have happily paid you to have another night out, wherever, absolves them of any blame on this occasion and YOU took the decision not to do that. We all hate that situation, but it is so common and discipline means that we have to run in to base the following morning. >>when I stopped at Abington services on M74 after 8 hours driving and they said I should have gone on to next services.<< On this occasion they are guilty, but I bet that telling off was verbal and not recorded anywhere;) Last year when I trained all of our drivers in Drivers hours law, I told them that the 4.5 hour driving rule is 'the limit not a target' Yesterday one of them came to me and said how much more relaxed he's felt during the last year by remembering those words and taking the pressure off. You do need a course Phil, it teaches how to manage your tacho time effectively to get the most out of it for both you and your employer. Running to the last minute before stopping isn't always the way either. Having read above, I would strongly advise that you keep a diary for your own use. Make a note of any time you are close to the limit, the road munber and the reason why. Make a note of remarks made to you verbally as above about Abington services. That way, if you are pulled by VOSA, they will see you have had concerns, and have an explanation for any discreapancies. They really are reasonable and don't like to see drivers being pushed or hoodwinked. The fact that you have had NO training will go against your employer and needs to be mentioned in the above scenario. Where are you based Phil? Pat |
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New Sun 5 Feb 12 12:22
Q for truckers re Driver timers - nyx2k
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| way out of my area of knowledge but i was out with a friend in his new unit last month and was stopped by vosa i believe and they were VERY helpful regards hrs as he was very worried he's gone over his hrs and had done so. but they talked him through some stuff, but i was out of ear shot but he said they were really helpful |
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New Sun 5 Feb 12 14:21
Q for truckers re Driver timers - Pat
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>>i was out with a friend in his new unit last month << We call it 'having a cabbie' nyx2k:) Pat |
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New Sun 5 Feb 12 15:50
Q for truckers re Driver timers - Aretas
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One of the most ineresting posts I have seen for a long time. Learned my respect for HGV drivers back in the late 60s when I was sent from Cambridge to Bangor and back via Cardiff in a 1950 Bedford bus converted to a demonstration vehicle. It overheated, had a slipping clutch and huge steering wheel play. Nevertheless occassional pottering car drivers would not go fast enough and overtaking was as art. |
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New Sun 5 Feb 12 15:31
Q for truckers re Driver timers - Dave_
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He's out my way Pat. In fact his employer serves the same customers as mine! Our place does in-house DCPC training though ;) |
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New Sun 5 Feb 12 16:22
Q for truckers re Driver timers - Pat
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He's welcome to 'sit in' on one of mine if he fancies a trip down the A47:) Pat |
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New Sun 5 Feb 12 19:17
Q for truckers re Driver timers - PhilW
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"if he fancies a trip down the A47:)" Not again!!! A regular trip for me - Leics, Peterborough, Wisbech, Kings Lynn, bloddy Swaffham, Norwich etc!! ;-) |
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New Sun 5 Feb 12 19:28
Q for truckers re Driver timers - sooty123
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>> "if he fancies a trip down the A47:)" >> Not again!!! A regular trip for me - Leics, Peterborough, Wisbech, Kings Lynn, bloddy Swaffham, >> Norwich etc!! ;-) >> At least it's not the A17! ;-) Last edited by: sooty123 on Sun 5 Feb 12 at 19:28
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New Sun 5 Feb 12 19:33
Q for truckers re Driver timers - Zero
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>> >> "if he fancies a trip down the A47:)" >> >> Not again!!! A regular trip for me - Leics, Peterborough, Wisbech, Kings Lynn, bloddy >> Swaffham, >> >> Norwich etc!! ;-) Well go a bit north east after Kings lynn, and try Brancaster Staithe for mussels, Downham Market for some nice bread and cheese, spin by Cromer for some crabs, Ignore Swaff'm and Norridge. Last edited by: Zero on Sun 5 Feb 12 at 19:34
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New Sun 5 Feb 12 20:02
Q for truckers re Driver timers - PhilW
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"Well go a bit north east after Kings lynn, and try Brancaster Staithe for mussels, Downham Market for some nice bread and cheese, spin by Cromer for some crabs," Would love to! But I'm not sure you are fully aware of the the rest of the thread!! If I had time for moules frites and crabs, I wouldn't be going overtime on the tacho!!! Or maybe I would. OT, but as a teenager, I had a job selling seaside rock on seafront in Scarborough. Opposite were all the crab, lobster, shellfish stalls. At the end of the day (when all the drunk daytripper coachparties had gone home with a bag full of rock for kids/wives) I used to go over to the stalls who I had made friends with and be given a mountain of crabs, lobsters and mussels for free - they were no good to sell the next day. But they were eaten that night or went in our fridge for future consumption. I was given so much I could keep neighbours supplied! Ever since have had a love of seafood. Heaven these days is Le Treport in N France - must be 50 seafood restaurants along the seafront/dockside and a fantastic fish market with the biggest variety of fish you could imagine at ridiculously low prices! I feel a trip to France coming on! Phil |
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New Sun 5 Feb 12 19:14
Q for truckers re Driver timers - PhilW
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Pat, Thanks for the excellent advice as always. "Your employers have just covered themselves with that statement and you have taken the blame:)" "The fact that they would have happily paid you to have another night out, wherever, absolves them of any blame on this occasion and YOU took the decision not to do that." Yes, they have, and yes it was my fault, I took the decision - I have miscalculated or not taken account of all the stop/start driving I did, especially between Bradford and Leeds where a "30 minute drive" took me over an hour and for the most part was edging forward one car's length at a time. Annoying thing is that I thought I had done a good job, dropped a car early and got home within the hours. However, I would never try to hoodwink VOSA, would tell them exactly what happened (I've already written a sheet on the day's work) and hope that they would be charitable - genuine error, first time I've gone over hours etc. In future will keep a continuous written record of jobs, timings, rests etc as I go along. As Dave says, I'm just down the road from him. Thanks again Phil |
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New Thu 23 Feb 12 16:21
Q for truckers re Driver timers - Dave_
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>> The new generation of Digi tacho, the DTCO1381, now records whatever activity is greatest in any minute >> The bad news is they are only fitted on new vehicles from October 2011. I've been out in a 60 plate today, which would have been registered between Sep 2010 - Feb 2011. It was fitted with a "Continental Automotive GmbH 1381.1051000011". I got properly stuck at lunchtime on the North Circular after Ealing when it was closed between the A40 and Park Royal exits, and only crept forward a couple of car-lengths every minute or so for nearly an hour. My printout from leaving Wandsworth to arriving in Leicester shows this: Drive 00h57 Other 00h02 Drive 02h34 So it looks like any halt of less than 2 minutes (or 1m30?) is included in that minute's record as driving. Good. When I finally got to the Hanger Lane gyratory system there were several PCSOs marshalling traffic, including two giving directions to car drivers holding up traffic in the middle of the road(!). I had the opportunity to speak to one officer while he held me at the head of the queue, his words were "If one more person stops to ask me how they get to IKEA, I'm going to scream!" Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 25 Feb 12 at 00:11
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New Thu 23 Feb 12 17:05
Q for truckers re Driver timers - Pat
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You should have nipped into the Ace Cafe for a break Dave;) How the DTCO1381 works is that whatever is recorded for the greater amount od seconds in any minute is what the whole minute records. Example: 29 seconds driving and 31 seconds other work = I minute of other work. Good, arn't they:) I'm off down to Braintree next wednesday to have a full 7 hour session on them so I know how to do the whole caboodle! ...and I'll regenerate that DPF on the M11 if it kills me:) Pat |
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New Thu 23 Feb 12 19:29
Q for truckers re Driver timers - bathtub tom
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>>...and I'll regenerate that DPF on the M11 if it kills me:) Watch out for push-bikes Patsy! ;>) |
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New Thu 23 Feb 12 19:50
Q for truckers re Driver timers - Dave_
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>> You should have nipped into the Ace Cafe for a break Dave;) That's exactly where the closure was! I joined the queue near the new bridge by the Shell station coming out of Ealing, and ended up heading west on the A40 when I got to it half an hour later. |
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