I have often fancied an Audi, thinking that they might be better built than VWs.
I bought a WhatCar mag, yesterday and it feature, briefly, the heavily revised A3 to appear later this year. I read the article with interest and thought that this could be my next car but then I read that the handbrake lever had been dispensed with in favour of a button operating an electronic one and from that moment on, all interest waned considerably, to virtually zero.
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not even worth a test drive to see how you get on?
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>> not even worth a test drive to see how you get on?
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Well, I will give it a butchers but can't imagine how you use these devices in stop and start traffic on a hill or say inclines greater than 1 in 10, say. Perhaps the spec will include hill hold as well.
I mean, when you pull up on a very steep incline you often have to give the handbrake an extra pull to stop the car rolling back especially with discs all round. How does an electronic version deal with this?
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>> I mean, when you pull up on a very steep incline you often have to
>> give the handbrake an extra pull to stop the car rolling back especially with discs
>> all round. How does an electronic version deal with this?
>>
They do deal with it, they just apply them harder than you would every time.,
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 17 Mar 12 at 12:31
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>> I have often fancied an Audi, thinking that they might be better built than VWs.
Hve you had a problem with the build of your VW?
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Why not try out one of the current VW groups offering with the electronic handbrake. I find them fine, and I'm not sure how much more taxing using a button is than having to pull up a lever.
My old A3 had hill hold which was useful and worked well.
I find peoples miss-trust of new technology amusing - was it the same when power steering was first used?????
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>> I find peoples miss-trust of new technology amusing - was it the same when power
>> steering was first used?????
>>
If the handbrake was broken in the first place then fixing it would be fine, as it is i've managed perfectly well for 40 years using all sorts of rod and cable parking brakes without ever wishing someone would put a button in its place.
Trucks have had air assisted parking brakes for many years, however they are exactly that, air levers whereby you the driver can still control the precise moment and at what pressure application and release occurs.
The electric releases are not assisted as such, they are an on off switch, they usually release automatically as you apply power which should you specify a modern semi auto isn't always as easy as it should be in close manouevering and hill starting in heavy traffic.
As we've often said here, a solution to a problem that never was.
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>> >> I have often fancied an Audi, thinking that they might be better built than
>> VWs.
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>> Hve you had a problem with the build of your VW?
>>
No serious problems but there again I am not a hard user and can't imagine what the car would be like if used heavily with >12k miles/yr. There are niggly problems, seemingly with body flexing as the doors creak when closed and no amount of adjustment apparently cures this.
I have my own semi-cure by slightly modifying the seals around the tops of the windows.
Of course model specific forums and ones that I read, find copious problems with their cars and it seems that no car is perfect!
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Maybe send a letter and email to Audi UK, and cc in Audi Germany.
Unless they realise private buyers like yourself do not want fitments like this they will continue putting ever more electronic garbage in to suit the fleet buyers who have no interest in long service life, and company car market who have a toy fetish.
What is better built, is the clunk of the doors and stiffness and sound proofing of the body, tactile and comfort issues of the interior, reliability and durability of mechanical and electrical parts, driving pleasure, good warranty and impeccable back up from dealers.
Any one issue is worthless without all the others in a quality product.
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>> Unless they realise private buyers like yourself do not want fitments like this they will
>> continue putting ever more electronic garbage in to suit the fleet buyers who have no
>> interest in long service life, and company car market who have a toy fetish.
Fleet buyers buy more new cars than private buyers. Fleet buyers win.
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>> Fleet buyers buy more new cars than private buyers. Fleet buyers win.
>>
Why do they spend millions on adverts to hook the type of buyer they want then, better profit in one overpriced private sale than to fleets.
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>> >> Fleet buyers buy more new cars than private buyers. Fleet buyers win.
>> >>
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>> Why do they spend millions on adverts to hook the type of buyer they want
>> then, better profit in one overpriced private sale than to fleets.
All aimed at thrusting young wannabe execs. There is a very good reason why BWWs infest the roads, its not down to private buyers.
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>> >> Fleet buyers buy more new cars than private buyers. Fleet buyers win.
>> >>
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>> Why do they spend millions on adverts to hook the type of buyer they want
>> then, better profit in one overpriced private sale than to fleets.
>>
>>
>>
User Chosers
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I didn't think I'd like an electronic brake. They work just as well as a normal handbrake and make hill starts even easier. If it works ok in a vauxhall then I'm sure Audi can do it. In stop start traffic it is a breeze as the vauxhall one releases automatically when you pull away. It held the car on a 45 degree slope of my drive without an issue. The bmw I borrowed with a normal handbrake struggled and needed to be left in gear to stop it moving.
Only issue is what happens when it fails. Does it stick on or off and can you repair it without replacing the entire thing. The meganes fail on and you have to break something inside to get them off. Then you have no handbrake and a massive bill.
Don't knock them until you've tried one first.
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My car has an electronic parking brake and it comes with auto-hold. Come to a stop and it will hold the car from rolling back/forwards without doing anything. Pull away and the brakes release.
Put the parking brake on and it puts it on as hard as is needed. And it auto-releases when you pull away (provided you're wearing the seatbelt).
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My better half thinks that electronic parking brakes are the bees knees. 125k miles in her '07 Passat and now upwards of 50k in her '09 Insignia. Never a problem.
One of her options pre Insignia was a Superb, but no EPB so it was immediately ruled out.
Buying privately, and out of warranty, is of course a whole new ball game...
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>> Only issue is what happens when it fails. Does it stick on or off and
>> can you repair it without replacing the entire thing. The meganes fail on and you
>> have to break something inside to get them off. Then you have no handbrake and
>> a massive bill.
>>
I think these things will be a lot of trouble as cars with them get to be 5-6 years old.
My FIL had a hire car in Spain with with an electric parking brake a one of those automated manual gearboxes - he said maneuvering it on the level was difficult and on any kind of slope was all but impossible.
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>> My FIL had a hire car in Spain with with an electric parking brake a
>> one of those automated manual gearboxes - he said maneuvering it on the level was
>> difficult and on any kind of slope was all but impossible.
>>
That's the fault of the automated manual gearbox, not the electric parking brake.
Based on the doom-and-gloom in several car forums, I was very wary about having to deal with an electric parking brake in my Audi. Having experienced it for almost a year now, I have to say that I would put this in second place on my list of "MUST HAVES".
A handbrake lever seems as primitive as double de-clutching by comparison.
I really don't understand the luddites on this forum sometimes.
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>> That's the fault of the automated manual gearbox, not the electric parking brake.
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He said, on a slope you apply some power, then the parking brake lets go and the vehicle takes off. Stop and it comes on again. I think he's a pretty capable bloke but he said parallel parking on a slope was simply impossible unless there was a two car length space to play with.
Personally, I like all the gadgets, but do think they'll be less welcome as vehicles get older.
Last edited by: Bill Payer on Sat 17 Mar 12 at 22:44
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I think it's down to the quality of the implementation. Volvo dropped the ergonomic ball by putting their button by the door, so you have to work it with the right hand - which is the wrong hand - and by omitting the hold facility that removes the need to engage the EPB at all for a short stop. The manual S60 I tried was just dangerous at a busy uphill junction as there was no 'abort' option when an apparent gap disappeared; the car would roll back before I could reach the button to hold it.
Audi and VW give you the hold option, and put the button under your left hand rather than yards in front of the right, so the 'abort' ought to work: right hand on wheel, left foot on clutch, left hand poised over EPB button to hold if necessary. I'm testing a manual A6 with one next week, so I'll let you all know whether this is borne out in practice.
And Mercedes doesn't do EPBs but has the equally bizarre foot ratchet and release pull. I've driven two more this week and grasped the Hold facility on the footbrake, which works beautifully, except that it leaves the driver behind with a faceful of brake lights. I'll keep Mrs Beest in blissful ignorance of that last bit, although we're in a diminishing minority because we even care.
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>> I really don't understand the luddites on this forum sometimes.
>>
+1
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>> he said maneuvering it on the level was difficult and on any kind of slope was all but impossible.
As soon as you stop the auto-hold will stop the car moving. So with an DSG it won't creep. You have to turn off auto-hold on VWs. Well sounds like auto-hold to me and not the parking brake or gearbox.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Sat 17 Mar 12 at 22:44
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>> My FIL had a hire car in Spain with with an electric parking brake a
>> one of those automated manual gearboxes - he said maneuvering it on the level was
>> difficult and on any kind of slope was all but impossible.
>>
I had a Citroen Grand Picasso with the EGS box and Electric brake for 3 weeks in Spain. Cant say either me or Mrs B had any issues with it
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"I really don't understand the luddites on this forum sometimes."
Fair enough, Londoner - you've taken to the electronic brake. But it's equally fair enough for those of us who prefer the mechanical type - particularly if like me we've driven for 45 years - to be given the option. Nearly all cars available with automatic transmision also offer a manual option (except such as RR or Bentley where it's reasonably assumed that you wouldn't want a manual): so why not put the electronic brake on the options list?
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Never mind the handbrake Oldgit, you may find the A3 far too small compared with the current Golf. I recently sold my A3 and coincidentally had a week's rental of a new Golf in the UK. The Golf felt far more spacious inside, front and back, and was easier to get in and out of. At 6 foot 2 and umpteen stone, I think I'm just too big for an A3. No problems with the Golf though.
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>> Never mind the handbrake Oldgit, you may find the A3 far too small compared with
>> the current Golf. I recently sold my A3 and coincidentally had a week's rental of
>> a new Golf in the UK. The Golf felt far more spacious inside, front and
>> back, and was easier to get in and out of. At 6 foot 2 and
>> umpteen stone, I think I'm just too big for an A3. No problems with the
>> Golf though.
>>
Oh, that surprises me, although the room in my MK6 feels less than in my MK5 for some reason but perhaps this is down to design of the seats athough, paradoxically, think that they are slightly smaller than in the previous car.
What I do find, however, is that being just over 6' tall and slim-ish, with long legs, I have the seat right back on the runners but then find that, unlike the MK5, I can't get the steering wheel near enough for a more relaxed driving position.
Still, eventually, I'll have a sit in an A3 although things don't come to light on a brief acquaintance with a vehicle, do they?
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I'm firmly in the 'couldn't care less' camp regarding electronic parking brakes. We had a Grand Scenic with one and it worked fine. All cars since, including the new F30 3 series have a conventional mechnical lever. And they work fine too.
I can honestly say the method of parking brake application would not even register in my thought process when it came to deciding on a car.
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>> Never mind the handbrake Oldgit, you may find the A3 far too small compared with
>> the current Golf. I recently sold my A3 and coincidentally had a week's rental of
>> a new Golf in the UK. The Golf felt far more spacious inside, front and
>> back, and was easier to get in and out of. At 6 foot 2 and
>> umpteen stone, I think I'm just too big for an A3. No problems with the
>> Golf though.
>>
Worth bearing in mind that the sport-back versions are longer to give more interior space
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Mine was a Sportback. Still didn't think there was much room upfront, compared with the Golf VI.
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Just don't get a Golf Mk V - ghastly things that should have been rear-ended off the planet by now. Yet again today, I was following one at a respectful distance while its driver anxiety-braked, without actually appearing to lose any speed, for every catseye. Then, when the brake lights came on for about the 20th time, I suddenly realized the thing was slowing appreciably and there, lost in the ring of red light, was a tiny semicircular right indicator.
Mirror-signal-manoeuvre would have helped, of course, since I'd at least have had a chance to see the orange before it was drowned by the red, but what an utterly moronic piece of design.
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I was nearly rear ended in my old MK5 GTI in 2008 - it was only observation, a clear road and quick thinking that avoided a collision. Utterly stupid design, lovely car to own though.
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I saw an Audi A5 with LED daytime running lights pull up in a stupid location over the weekend. First time I've seen the DLR dim on one side for the indicator.... For me that says the DLR and indicators are in the wrong location in relation of each other.
Very strange to see very bright LEDs on one side on the front of the car, and slightly dimmed LEDs on the other with the indicators flashing.
Seemed like poor design to me.
Back to the A3... if the interior is similar to and influenced by the A1... then I don't like it. Personal I guess. Maybe I am wrong - I like the visuals of the A4/A5 interior but try interacting and it's all a bit busy....
... So actually they might be making these better for me to choose the next car in 2014.
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Audi - New A3 later this year. - sooty123
