In the course of researching rules and regs for a couple of continenetal trips I have come across this
This regulation applies to all motorised vehicles using roads in Germany, including those registered abroad, so vehicles registered in the United Kingdom are affected. It is prohibited to use summer tyres in Germany during winter weather conditions - summer tyres are predominantly fitted to vehicles in the United Kingdom.
Winter weather conditions include black ice, snow, ice, slush and hoarfrost. Please bear in mind that these conditions may also be present even if the temperature is above 0 degrees.
German law specifies that the tyres must be winter tyres or all season tyres designed for use in wintry conditions. Suitable tyres will normally be marked 'M+S', however these can also be marked with a snow flake or snowy mountains symbol.
Motorists, whose car is equipped with summer tyres may not take the car on the road in winter weather conditions. Motorists in violation face fines of €40. If they actually obstruct traffic, the fine is €80. You may also be prevented from continuing your journey unless the tyres are changed or the weather conditions change.
I wonder how many UK car owners are aware of this, comply with the rule and are caught if they don't
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It may have come up here before but I honestly couldn't say. Does anyone here have any views on, or experience of winter tyres?
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You're avin' a giraffe, ain't you, Meldrew me old son?
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No - just wondering how many UK registered cars go to the continent in the winter, ignorant of or in breach of the laws. PS - If I am your son you must be VERY old! >:)
Last edited by: Meldrew on Sun 18 Mar 12 at 08:51
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I wouldn't like to be involved in a accident in Germany due to having summer tyres in winter conditions.
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I guess the same problem will arise when people are unaware of regs to have hi-vis jackets, first-aid kits or warning triangles in their cars in various countries.
Maybe Germany uses less salt on its roads, and are more dangerous to summer tyres than ours - or the winter temperatures are lower so that salting is less effective on frost/ice.
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A lot of maybe's still wouldn't chance it German Polizei might not be that friendly and understanding.>:)
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I was in Germany on business a couple of weeks ago, and it struck me how many cars were running around on either steel, or really cheesy, grotty looking alloys. It was only when it clicked about the Winter tyre law that it made sense.
A local colleague explained the law is very strictly enforced, and insurers won't pay out in the event of an accident if the car is not shod with Winter rubber at the appropriate time.
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>> A local colleague explained the law is very strictly enforced, and insurers won't pay out
>> in the event of an accident if the car is not shod with Winter rubber
>> at the appropriate time.
That is an urban myth, insurers are legally obliged to pay out. You will have some interesting discussions with the police if you caused an accident because of not having suitable tires though.
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The only reason I have winter tyres is so that I can legally drive in Germany and Switzerland every winter. Having bought them I reason that I may as well use them in the UK too. But I wouldn't bother with them just for home driving.
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>> That is an urban myth, insurers are legally obliged to pay out. You will have
>> some interesting discussions with the police if you caused an accident because of not having
>> suitable tires though.
>>
And if you are found to be on the wrong side of the law with respect to tyres, no doubt the insurers will then sue you for whatever they have paid out in respect of the accident you've caused.....
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They can no longer do such things, thanks to one of the EU's more sensible laws.
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To those winter tyre nay-sayers I discovered another benefit of fitting them yesterday.
I finally got round to taking them off Mrs BB's Citroën C8 yesterday, and on doing a quick visual of normally hidden componentry discovered one of the rear springs has broken. Some time ago, judging by the corrosion on the sheared edge of the spring, not that you would have noticed from driving the thing. It's the first major failure in 9 years/60,000, which isn't too bad.
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As a follow on to the tyre discussion - what are people's thoughts on having all four tyres on one's car being the same make & model?
I have just replaced the front tyres on our Panda with Uniroyal Rain Expert. The rear tyres have a reasonable amount of tread in them, but not only are they not the same as the front set, but also not the same as each other.
My gut feeling is to discard them, even though there is a good bit of life in them.
What do you think?
Last edited by: Roger on Thu 22 Mar 12 at 22:36
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Do you drive like Fangio?
If not you'll be unlikely to notice much difference.
If the rears are Linglong/Goodride/etc I'd get shot of them pronto and fit a pair of REs or other decent rubber.
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>> As a follow on to the tyre discussion - what are people's thoughts on having
>> all four tyres on one's car being the same make & model?
I always have a matching set of tyres. Moreover, I stick to the same make/model/size as those which were factory fitted when the car was new.
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>> Moreover, I stick to the same make/model/size
>> as those which were factory fitted when the car was new.
>>
That's pointless. The only thing that dictates which make / model were fitted to your car when new is which of the tyre manufacturers was offering the biggest bung best deal to its maker at the time.
This changes regularly, so buying the same car in different months may well yield a different "standard fit" tyre.
Nearly time to swap back to summers on the fleet car and (praise be) the fronts were shot and the rears not far behind when they came off, so I can change 'em this year. The original Michelin "Energy Saver" tyres have proved to be the most god-awfully noisy pieces of crud it has ever been my displeasure to drive on. Everyone who's been in the car has remarked on the racket and adding insult to injury, the winter tyres (Dunlop Winter Sport) are significantly quieter.
Thus I'm planning to ask the tyre place for a non-Michelin alternative.
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>>The original Michelin "Energy Saver" tyres have proved to be the most god-awfully noisy pieces of crud it has ever been my displeasure to drive on.
>> Everyone who's been in the car has remarked on the racket and adding insult to injury, the winter tyres (Dunlop Winter Sport) are significantly quieter.
My Kumhos are very quiet unlike the tyres it came with - Fateos.
I was astounded at the difference in noise levels between them..
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>> I have just replaced the front tyres on our Panda with Uniroyal Rain Expert. The
>> rear tyres have a reasonable amount of tread in them, but not only are they
>> not the same as the front set, but also not the same as each other.
Brave bloke admitting you've put new tyres on the front..;)
I wouldn't worry too much, daughter had a similar set up involving RE's, good tyres those, on the front of her Civic and some Arrowspeeds something or others on the rear, the car was fine like that for summer use, certainly better than the other way round.
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All the drive, all the steering and probably 90% of braking is through the front wheels on FWD cars. It makes sense to me to have the best tyres there.
Grip is needed on the rears though, particularly in adverse weather, so the back end doesn't break away changing understeer to oversteer. Not good on a road car.
I still, even in a low powered car like the Panda, tend to use a bit of throttle steering on bends - a hang over from Mini racing years ago when a long sweeping bend was taken with a combination of steering and throttle control.
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>> I still, even in a low powered car like the Panda, tend to use a
>> bit of throttle steering on bends - a hang over from Mini racing years ago
>> when a long sweeping bend was taken with a combination of steering and throttle control.
>>
In that case a bit of experimenting where appropriate and safe to do so in the wet will soon tell you what the score is.
Seat of the pants driving by feel, a lost art.
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>> Seat of the pants driving by feel, a lost art.
Also very difficult in many modern cars, because most of them don't have any feel.
One of the things I used to love about my old 306 XSi was the way you could trim the attitude of the car with the throttle in a long corner. You could feel grip and surface changes through subtle changes in the steering weighting, and feel what the back end was doing straight through the seat. Never driven anything before or since that I felt so 'at one' with. Modest straightline performance by the standards of the day, let alone today, but more than good enough chassis-wise to warrant getting up early and going for a drive just for the heck of it. I did just that, many time.
Thought this might be rose tints, but I had a go in a friend's about 2 years ago, and got out of it grinning from ear to ear.
By comparison, modern equivalents feel like doing the same thing with the remnants of a local anaesthetic in both arms and your bottom.
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>> Thought this might be rose tints, but I had a go in a friend's about
>> 2 years ago, and got out of it grinning from ear to ear.
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>> By comparison, modern equivalents feel like doing the same thing with the remnants of a
>> local anaesthetic in both arms and your bottom.
I suppose a non too technical RWD would provide that pleasure still, assuming you can find one that doesn't have concrete springs and elastic band tyres to numb the feely bottom.
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>> I finally got round to taking them off Mrs BB's Citroën C8 yesterday,
..You'll make it snow now!
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I'll be taking off my winter tyres this weekend. I spent 2 hours yesterday pulling out the studs from my old winter tyres, so I can use them this summer. They've still got about 4mm, so should see me through.
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>> A lot of maybe's still wouldn't chance it German Polizei might not be that friendly
>> and understanding.>:)
>>
Not only unfriendly, but the fine is per tyre too.
One of my colleagues found that out the hard way.
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A lot of people, especially those that live in a flat, must have a problem finding somewhere to store a set of winter tyres.
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Put 'em under the bed, l'Es, one at each corner. You'll soon get used to being a little closer to the ceiling. And the smell? I wouldn't worry - modern rubber is pretty tough so I doubt you'll do them any harm.
};---)
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>> Put 'em under the bed, l'Es, ......... And the smell? I wouldn't worry - modern
>> rubber is pretty tough so I doubt you'll do them any harm.
>> };---)
I like it. Top marks. You're more of a comedian than I thought.
Fortunately, I've never felt the need to fit winter tyres.
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>> I've never felt the need to fit winter tyres.
+1.
I just adjust my driving style for the change in conditions.
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Once or twice every couple of years I feel quite strongly that studded tyres would come in useful. But I still haven't got any. I wonder if anyone here has?
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Studded tyres on a PT Cruiser? Bit Mad Max innit? Are you secretly a a slightly careworn Mel Gibson lookalike AC?
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Fri 23 Mar 12 at 17:57
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I did say one or two days every couple of years. There are times when the roads round here get coated with icy packed snow. That can get very slippery for a day or so.
I wanted studded tyres under those circumstances when I had a Ford Escort and when I had Skoda Estelles. The point is you don't usually get them if they are going to cost more than the car is worth. Well, I don't anyway.
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>> A lot of people, especially those that live in a flat, must have a problem
>> finding somewhere to store a set of winter tyres.
>>
The tyre places keep them for you, as well as swap them over. They send out a card with a date to go and get them swapped. All the wheels/tyres are stored in shipping containers out back. Of course, if it were the UK the containers would get nicked or broken into every 5 mins, but it doesn't seem to happen here.
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Our local indie tyre place does a "tyre hotel" service for £39.95 per year!
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This photo shows the the country lane where we live, I’m often asked why I paid £400 for special winter car tyres from Finland, well – that hill can become a sheet of ice in winter, sometimes lasting for weeks at a time,
and without special tyres, you’d never get out of here alive!
Its also a nice photo of Cornwall at 7.30am this morning, so I'm showing orf tbh :)
flic.kr/p/bDeE8E
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Very nice photo Dog you are posh.Two steel balls in the garden.>:)
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>>Very nice photo Dog you are posh<<
That's right Dutchie ;)
>>Two steel balls in the garden<<
My balls are stainless m8 :-D
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Winter Tyres Compulsory in Germany - WillDeBeest
