more cost and no chance of scrapping the road tax either.
win win all around then....... for the government.
|
At the risk of inspiring ire, I have to say the M6 Toll road has really worked for me. Whether I've funded the cost or not I've used it a lot. At certain peak times it can save an hour off your journey. I guess you just have to decide what value you put on that time on the day in question.
|
I often wonder whether anyone in power realises that if they created an efficient, well-designed road network, it would reduce our oil needs, decrease journey time and thus help the economy.
Of course it would mean not wasting taxpayers money on dubious causes, so the roads will remain crappy as we negociate potholes and unfathomable junctions designed to slow you down ( and increase fuel consumption ).
Pay for roads? We already do and the deal is not in our favour!
|
Today: You don't pay to drive on M25
Tomorrow: A private firm will now allow to use hard shoulder as a normal lane. So they have widened the road. As they have made an improvement you will be charged form now on.
The question is, which party you are going to vote in next election?
|
|
I suspect a kite is being flown but as represented this is Cameron's Community Charge.
|
Road pricing/leasing wasn't on the radar.
Conservative manifesto: transport policy
Key transport policies include:
Building a high-speed rail link connecting London, Birmingham, Manchester and Leeds with the Continent
Blocking moves for a third runway at Heathrow Airport
Improving Britain's railways
Cutting congestion and making Britain's roads safer
Making local transport greener
Cutting congestion means having less vehicles on the road. Also means better traffic management.
So how do we get less on the road. Price people off. Or play around with start and finish age limits for drivers.
Paying private companies will not improve congestion. Better driving habits, strict enforcement of the rules and intelligent management will.
|
I thought the government's water industry analogy was particularly amusing, given huge swathes of the country are facing hosepipe bans for the foreseeable future.
We live on an island. There is no excuse for water shortages.
Last edited by: DP on Mon 19 Mar 12 at 13:44
|
>> We live on an island. There is no excuse for water shortages.
Do you mean desalination of sea water?
A very expensive solution for a wet island that's presently unusually dry.
|
well if we actually INVESTED in tech like Thorium, electricity would be so cheap that desalination and hydrogen plants wouldn't be an issue.
Tech research like that will not happen though and the MP's have no long term forward planning.
It's all about getting quick returns
privatise this, privatise that blah blah.
although the countries ruined now, I dread to think what the country will be like in 10 - 20 years time.
|
|
Desalination is already in use, on the Thames there is one plant so I guess it is Thames Water, in both senses!
|
>> A very expensive solution for a wet island that's presently unusually dry.
>>
Do you mean "parts of which are unusually dry" and "in areas where demand exceeds supply"?
We have more fresh clean water than we know what to do with.
|
>> At the risk of inspiring ire, I have to say the M6 Toll road has
>> really worked for me. Whether I've funded the cost or not I've used it a
>> lot. At certain peak times it can save an hour off your journey. I guess
>> you just have to decide what value you put on that time on the day
>> in question.
The toll only works for you plutocrats because there is a free alternative for the riff raff. When they charge for all the roads, we will be back to square one, but with more expensive motoring!
The justification given in the wireless interview I've just heard was that it is unfair that people can make more than average use of the roads without paying any extra - I was disappointed that the BBC interviewer let this piffle go unchallenged, given that fuel duty far exceeds VED for most people and is proportionate to usage.
It was also said that as VED doesn't cover infrastructure costs,charges were justified. No acknowledgement at all that taxes including fuel duty comfortably exceed costs, and no challenge from the useless BBC interviewer.
The bit about not charging for existing roads is just a ruse to get the proposals through - once in, it will be easy to roll them out as roads are replaced, improved and renewed.
|
Heh Heh, that's twice in a week I've been accused of plutocracy ! Never used to happen when I had a Mondeo !
Seriously though, I've used that road at times when I could ill afford it but it made sense on the day for whatever pressing reason. I don't have a particular problem with premium alternatives. Bit like hotels really. Pays your money, takes your choice. I'd like to think I still qualified as riff raff most of the time by the way...
:-)
|
|
Don't worry Humph, I know you're one of us really, just better dressed :-)
|
Re the M6 toll. It's also about how and in what circumstances you use it.
If, for example, I lived in Cannock and worked in Solihull or vice versa I'd probably not use the M6 Toll unless there was an urgent need to do so as it would add a disproportionate cost to that journey.
However, a journey I need to make at least twice a week ( and I do need the car with me for reasons I'll not complicate this with ) is from Cheshire to central London and back.
The raw cost ( excluding wear and tear etc ) is £60+ in diesel, £35 to park and £10 con charge making £105. If I use the toll road both ways it adds £11 to that bill and might mean I'm on the road for 7 hours that day instead of 9.
So in that context, it sort of works for me. And before anyone jumps on the "expenses" element I did it that way when I was self-employed too !
|
Hands up anyone who didn't think road pricing was on the cards, for some years now people have been doing as they are told by politicians, buy small eco cars and get good mileage and free or very cheap VED, now that so many have done as told its time for the second phase.
Admit they caught me out though, i fully expected trackers in cars and a bill at the end of the month, bonus payments of accrued fines for traffic violations and double bonus for a fully tracked and monitored motoring population.
Should have known better, this way wrath and hatred can be directed towards the privateers who will own the roads, politicians best mates probably...no doubt they can make sympathetic noises at election time and criticise the road owner for charging.
Good wheeze.
|
If this proposal goes through, Road Pricing will indeed be Cameron's Council Tax. There we are moaning about the cost of motoring and he proposes a significant increase to amke us even more uncompetitive!
And this "charges for new roads only" will indeed be a Trojan Horse. We all remember how the charges for the Dartford Crossing were only meant to repay the cost of the works. Now the charge is kept in place to deter use. Like we have an alternative!?
I suspect this is a case of the Liberal tail wagging the Conservative dog - Cameron can't be that stupid, can he?
|
Yes he can.
Imagine the added cost on all of the freight which moves on our roads.
The prices in the shops will reflect that rise, and we'll all be paying more.
Pat
|
>> I suspect this is a case of the Liberal tail wagging the Conservative dog -
>> Cameron can't be that stupid, can he?
Absolutely YES - he is that stupid and by no means is a Conservative in any sense of the word.
|
|
I'm confused. Isn't selling the roads a very Thatcherite policy and yet the right wingers on here seems to be opposed to it. If Mrs Thatcher had been in power long enough I'm sure she would have got round to it. What's the problem?
|
>> What's the problem?
They will be taking a cut of the RFL revenue, plus introducing tolls on new roads (and existing ones via unscrupulous methods no doubt). The bottom line is it's going to end up costing us twice over. Allowing a private company to run a public service with taxpayers money, and charge them again on top for profit can't be right.
I believe the lukewarm reception to the M6 Toll is a fairly accurate indicator of public opinion on such schemes.
|
"Allowing a private company to run a public service with taxpayers money, and charge them again on top for profit can't be right."
But I thought that tories and the ultra right were in favour of that sort of thing
|
Costs will gradually increase to ridiculous levels - Boiling Frogs Syndrome:
www.fastcompany.com/magazine/01/frog.html
|
|
There is is no RFL and hasn't been for years. It is an excise duty charged for owning a car, just like the tax on wine, spirits, beer and cigarettes.
|
|
Suppose Branson will be dominating again. Virgin Tolls. Virgin Lanes etc.
|
|
Verging on the ridiculous?
|
I thought that the point about new roads, or motorways, was that it was possible to impose any conditions of use they like, such as charging tolls.
But existing roads are the Queen's Highway, and everyone has rights to use them dating back to ancient times, so I would have thought a move to sell them, or charge tolls, could be open to legal challenge.
|
This all started two years ago, with the previous (red) regime, but they ran out of time before the blue regime came to the fore.
tinyurl.com/3929d9r
"Rothschilds Engineer Fire Sale Of UK Infrastructure To Offshore Corporations - Elitist banking dynasty pushes for toll roads that would privatize the UK’s road network, enrich coffers of same banking elite who have wrecked global economy"
Last edited by: sooty tailpipes on Tue 20 Mar 12 at 09:28
|
Flog off the roads ??? - Shiny
