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When we instructed a contractor to connect our drains to a newly installed public sewer, the terms were that we were to pay 50% of the quotation in advance and the second 50% on receipt of the final bill. The work was completed six months ago and we still haven't received the final bill. Do we have any obligation to remind the contractor?
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>> Do we have any obligation to remind the contractor?
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Only if the contractor was Dulwich Estate. :)
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Leaving aside the quibble over whether the bill is the significant issue - what really matters is that you have agreed a price and the work has been done. You are morally obliged to pay. Perhaps you are also legally so obliged, but I couldn't say.
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He may be waiting to next tax year before he invoices, so as to "take advantage of" the 45% tax rate. If he does so, of course, he will be tax evading, but (a) he may not know; and (b) that sort of evasion is hard to pick up.
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>> Do we have any obligation to remind the contractor?
Would never have applied in my case anyway. Job done and final invoice left on client's kitchen table on the last day was my style for private jobs.
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>> >> Do we have any obligation to remind the contractor?
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>> Would never have applied in my case anyway. Job done and final invoice left on
>> client's kitchen table on the last day was my style for private jobs.
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The contractor was the one which installed the public sewer and is a large company with at least five bases in the UK. During the course of the work the site agent said that they didn't normally take on private jobs as they weren't sufficiently profitable. (I pointed out that they had given me a quote which I had accepted.) When the work was completed he said that their head office was slow at sending out final bills. I wonder whether they've written off our job and decided to put it down to experience.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Mon 30 Jul 12 at 17:51
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May just have got lost in the post, stranger things have happened.
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They might have forgot to send the bill. As an honest sort of person I'd be asking them. And as a pessimist I'd also wonder if they forgot to send the bill but then the computer flags you as not paying which then impacts credit ratings etc.
EDIT: If you agreed a price and are happy with the work, why aren't you contacting them? Or are you hoping to evade paying what you agreed?
Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 30 Jul 12 at 17:54
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>> If you agreed a price and are happy with the work, why aren't you
>> contacting them? Or are you hoping to evade paying what you agreed?
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My thoughts are that if a large company cannot get its act together to send me a bill...then I couldn't be bothered to get my act together to pay it.
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How does he know the bills was or wasn't sent. Since they don't deal with residential work there is a chance the 50/50 aspect of payment has confused someone and he could get away with this. Morally, should he? No. But he might decide to. Probably why he's asking here.
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You don't pay bills you don't get.
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To Z and Westpig:
I'd be interested to hear the moral argument behind your point of view.
Work has been completed as per the contract agreed. To spell it out, the contract means, in effect: "You do x and in return I will pay you £y."
The contract was not: "You do x and I will pay £y only after receiving a bill."
A bill is merely a reminder to pay. What's the problem?
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>> The contract was not: "You do x and I will pay £y only after receiving
>> a bill."
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Oh, yes it was.
"Second 50% on receipt of the final account" was what was agreed, so, until he gets the final bill he can sit back and wait.
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There's a long-established agricultural merchant down in Glamorgan who's notorious amongst local farmers for being slow to invoice. He always gets paid though; the general sentiment is that since he would never cheat them, they are reluctant to cheat him.
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Le's. They bill and it's as agreed they get paid. If it's incorrect you dispute and sort and then pay. If they don't bill you don't pay. Proof of posting is not proof of receipt.
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If they're a big company they won't think twice about unleashing the dogs of war if you don't pay. They may have sent you a bill and it has got lost in the post, they probably will send you a reminder in time. Wait and see.
Last edited by: R.P. on Mon 30 Jul 12 at 20:49
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The "Dogs of War" can wait for their food. When they (The Company) present an acceptable bill then you pay. 'They' poor loves may have to send it recorded. Proof of posting etc.......
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Legally I'm sure you're fine. Seems a bit of a shame though I'm sure we all do it.
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I'm in the 'when they send an invoice I'll pay it promptly' camp. If it was a small outfit my conscience might prick me to contact them.
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I have had bills from an electricity company for one property ranging from a couple of hundred in debt to just under a grand to literally pence, threats of death and bailiffs in no particular order, then a credit note. Explain that one please. Never affected my credit rating. Muppets.
Last edited by: Martin Devon on Mon 30 Jul 12 at 21:20
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I've just looked at the paperwork. The letter of quotation says "Our standard terms for this work are 50% advance payment and the balance payable within 7 days of completion".
On completion, the site agent said (verbally) that their head office was slow at sending out bills and I'm still waiting. Assuming they've posted us the final bill, (and assuming it got lost in the post), if they were really bothered about getting the money then surely they would send a reminder. I don't think its up to me to contact them and say I haven't received the bill. In point of fact they might not appreciate me contacting them because it would mean more work for somebody to send (and process) the final bill. The cost of the sewer was £875,000 and my outstanding 50% is peanuts in comparison. I imagine that in future they won't quote for relatively small private jobs.
The original question was ~ am I obliged to remind them, and I think not.
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>> A bill is merely a reminder to pay. What's the problem?
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If I just sent them a cheque for the outstanding 50%, without having received a bill/invoice, then I would have to explain why I'd sent the cheque and I don't see why I should do that.
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>> And as a pessimist I'd also wonder if they forgot to send
>> the bill but then the computer flags you as not paying which then impacts credit
>> ratings etc.
I've never bought anything on credit in my life (apart from a mortgage) and I don't intend to start now.
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In another life, we had a policy of paying on time BUT if invoices were never submitted*, we accrued the cost - so the P&L account was correct - and did nothing.
Made £000s from people under - invoicing...
In my current life I do not have to worry about P&L so no accruals:-) but the same principle applies.
* if submitted but incorrect, we did not pay if they were too high. If too low, we paid.
Last edited by: madf on Tue 31 Jul 12 at 10:22
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I'm in a moral dilemma.
I admit I owe them money, but ............. The local site agent who typed out the quotation and acknowledged my acceptance may have wished he'd never got involved and may be pleased that I haven't chivvied them up for the final bill. I spoke to him on several occasions and he was a really nice guy. He ensured that the work was done properly and that my lawns received the absolute minimum of damage. I would hate to queer his pitch. At one point he admitted that the company didn't often take on private jobs because they weren't sufficiently profitable. (They are a large company doing jobs worth hundreds of thousands and sometimes millions of pound.) Similarly, if one of the accounts staff has been dilatory (or worse) I would hate to get them into trouble.
I think I should ignore my conscience pricking me and accept the site agent's statement that their head office are slow at sending out bills.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Tue 31 Jul 12 at 13:28
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Dont be too hasty to part with "Their" money Snailey! - its earning you interest, and when you have to Shell-out, be Sluggish about it!
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if you were told 50/50 verbally then i would wait for the final bill as that was what you agreed and that is surely a verbal contract and you are not in breach of the contract so keep the money aside and pay the bill promptly when it arrives
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It appears from my own email records and those of the publisher that I failed to send an invoice in January for the biggest (not all that big though) of three payments for the last piece of work I did, an arduous, hurried job. Only on my asking whether the last payment - authorised in May - had been made did the publisher's accountant reveal this apparent fact (no, they aren't all crooks).
If true this is extremely good news, as the money machine stopped giving out to me just the other day and we are about to leave on holiday.
I am not a stupid person but that doesn't prevent me from being an utter prat about some things. One of these is my cowering terror at the thought of my ever-precarious financial affairs. I would rather have the occasional nasty surprise than the constant misery I would suffer by monitoring these things closely.
Must seem half-witted to many here if not most (But am I bothered?... Yes, a bit).
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>> I've never bought anything on credit in my life (apart from a mortgage) and I
>> don't intend to start now.
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Er, haven't you just bought half a sewage connection pipe on credit?
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You're splitting hairs, CP.
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>> Er, haven't you just bought half a sewage connection pipe on credit?
No. He's bought a whole sewage connection pipe, funded 50% by credit.
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I've discussed the matter with a friend and he suggested that perhaps the contractor has yet to be paid by the local water authority and that my bill won't be sent to me until afterwards.
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i think you can have a clear conscience re the outstanding amount.
if you have the money and intend to pay when the invoice is presented then your side of the contract has been upheld surely?
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If it were me, I would put the money to one side, and keep schtum. If they chase you, pay it. If not, don't. It's not your job to remind them to ask you to pay them.
Slightly different, I know but a friend bought a Canon EOS 1 (then top-end professional film SLR) camera on interest free credit from a major camera retailer about 10 years ago. The credit agreement was approved in store over the phone, he paid his 20% deposit on his debit card, signed the paperwork, and that was the end of it. They never took a single direct debit.
He didn't actually notice for three months until he was reviewing his bank statements. He checked his copy of the agreement again, and confirmed the details were all correct, and once he'd done this, put the money aside each month and kept quiet.
Nobody ever contacted him, no attempt was made to take the money, and Experian showed no record of the credit agreement even existing in the first place. An administrative cock-up in his favour. Continued to frequent the same camera shop as well, and nothing was ever mentioned.
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Non-receipt of bill - John H
